Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

[Mando Knight]

So I'm putting together my first Saga campaign for my group. I think I've got most of the system down, since we'll be sticking to Core, and I'm fairly confident that I can improv and wing it if worse comes to worst. Just one sticking point: how effective are solo, high-level enemies as "bosses"? My plan is to have the party of four eventually face a Sith Lord (or rather, a level-appropriate would-be Sith Lord with levels in Jedi) as the final battle of the campaign.

My group's familiar with D&D 4e and 5e, and epic solo battles usually either wrecked us or we steamrolled right over them, the enemy being too overpowered in the former case and too overwhelmed by the action economy in the latter. Are battles against a single enemy with a CL that's two, three levels higher than the average level of a party of four viable? Or am I going to need to go a little bit further and make the fight a little bigger with reinforcements and other stuff spicing up the would-be duel?

It depends on how much higher-level the boss is and how willing your players are to spend per-level resources on fighting him (or how well they've conserved those resources for the fight). Defenses naturally scale faster than offenses in Saga even for Jedi and Soldiers, and if there aren't any Force Users abusing Skill Focus: Use the Force, a single level 7 Dark Jedi should be able to pose a major threat to a few level 4 characters, particularly if he has the Deflect (or Block if against a melee-centric party) talent.

[MeeposFire]

Looking at battle meditation does it have a real advantage over what a noble could get? It seems that it gives the same bonus type and amount but costs a larger action cost, a force point, and only works within 6 squares of you at all times as compared to line of sight. That just seems REALLY lack luster to me.


Also I was thinking of playing a droid starting with the noble class and building him to boost allies as much as possible. I was thinking of going into the officer and criminal boss (away from my book right now so I know the names are wrong) prestige classes since they have abilities that fit. I currently only own the core book but what other classes, feats, or books in general should I look into for a character that will likely almost never attack directly and will usually give other characters actions to use in combat and further boost those actions in combat?

[Waar]

Looking at battle meditation does it have a real advantage over what a noble could get? It seems that it gives the same bonus type and amount but costs a larger action cost, a force point, and only works within 6 squares of you at all times as compared to line of sight. That just seems REALLY lack luster to me.


Also I was thinking of playing a droid starting with the noble class and building him to boost allies as much as possible. I was thinking of going into the officer and criminal boss (away from my book right now so I know the names are wrong) prestige classes since they have abilities that fit. I currently only own the core book but what other classes, feats, or books in general should I look into for a character that will likely almost never attack directly and will usually give other characters actions to use in combat and further boost those actions in combat?

Battle meditation also targets yourself and it is a talent in a full bab class.
But even then I would say born leader and inspire confidence are better.

[LibraryOgre]

What usually kills any solo boss type character is the action economy... the players can do so many things to the boss's one turn that things get ridiculous. Talents like Block and Deflect help a lot, since they mitigate the PC's actions without costing an action on the part of the boss... but a lot can be done simply by giving the boss a single competent henchman, or a number of mooks.

[MeeposFire]

Battle meditation also targets yourself and it is a talent in a full bab class.
But even then I would say born leader and inspire confidence are better.

Good catch I missed that it would affect the user as well. I would agree with you though that it is not enough to be worth it especially with the 6 square requirement which is very restrictive.

[Smorgonoffz]

i've come to this thread for a suggestion, i'd like to plan a DW Gunslinger. During the creation process i've come to a crossroad :

1) Start as a soldier( which is good for feats but not skill selection)

2) Start as a scoundrel ( good for skills but not feats)


3) Start as a scout ( good balance of skills and feats)


- funny idea was making a DW scoundrel/gunslinger and putting all scoundrel talents into the luck talent tree XD

- Any idea to make scoundrels less squishy?

-The default race for the build would be human or codru ji.

Ps:same rule as before any race is allowed but classes,feats and talent frome core only.

[MeeposFire]

i've come to this thread for a suggestion, i'd like to plan a DW Gunslinger. During the creation process i've come to a crossroad :

1) Start as a soldier( which is good for feats but not skill selection)

2) Start as a scoundrel ( good for skills but not feats)


3) Start as a scout ( good balance of skills and feats)


- funny idea was making a DW scoundrel/gunslinger and putting all scoundrel talents into the luck talent tree XD

- Any idea to make scoundrels less squishy?

-The default race for the build would be human or codru ji.

Ps:same rule as before any race is allowed but classes,feats and talent frome core only.

Honestly I do not think that soldier skills are bad. IN fact they get only one less skill than a scoundrel and their list is pretty sweet. You get access to use computer, mechanics, and treat injury among other things and that is very useful. They also boost your HP and your attack bonus.

[Smorgonoffz]

ops, i forgot the part where i wanted more knowledge skills XD

[Jayngfet]

Depends what you wanna do. If it were me I'd say scoundrel, then take soldier at level 2 and 3 for the rifle and armor proficiency.

Generally, skills are more important than feats since you can get one every level but your skills are locked in unless you burn your most valuable feat slots.You can make back proficiency reasonably quickly with multiclass.

[Chelios]

Hi, i played 2 sessions years ago, now we are going to start new campain in KOTOR. We are 4/5 players, i know for sure 1 of us will be jedi. I want to play a young human guy who knows the force but he is not a jedi( or a sith), have you any advices? There are too much talents and feats and i don't know what to pick. I don' t like the noble and the soldire, so im thinking to pick scoundrel or scout.

[stanprollyright]

Hi, i played 2 sessions years ago, now we are going to start new campain in KOTOR. We are 4/5 players, i know for sure 1 of us will be jedi. I want to play a young human guy who knows the force but he is not a jedi( or a sith), have you any advices? There are too much talents and feats and i don't know what to pick. I don' t like the noble and the soldire, so im thinking to pick scoundrel or scout.

I suggest Scout over Scoundrel for several reasons. First, Scouts have 1 more skill than Scoundrels, which can go into Use the Force while still having enough skills for Pilot, Mechanics, Stealth, Perception, etc. Second, Scouts have more health and rifle proficiency, so they will be marginally better at combat without much investment. Third, Scouts have some great talents that synergize well with Force users. The first is Fringe Savant, which gives you a temporary Force Point every time you roll a 20 on a skill check. This is great for Force Users (and Pilots) who make a lot of skill checks during combat. Basically, you roll a Use the Force check every time you use a Force ability, and if you roll a 20 you get a free FP, which you can use to refresh your Force Powers. The second super-useful talent is Evasion, which is a great defensive ability, letting you halve or ignore area damage. If you do ever go into the Jedi class and get Block and Deflect talents, Evasion will fill a hole in your defenses. It also works in vehicles. The Uncanny Dodge talents are also good defensive abilities, but by no means are these as important as Fringe Savant and Evasion. Acute Senses and Improved Initiative are good too, as those are some of the most frequent checks in the game. The Camoflage tree is good for stealthy characters. Jury Rigger is good for mechanic characters.

As far as feats, Force Training and Skill Focus: Use the Force are the best you can get early on. Otherwise, it depends on what you want to do. For Scout bonus feats, pretty much all of them can be useful. Skill Focus and Skill Training are always good. Vehicular Combat is imperative if you want to be a pilot, and it synergizes really well with Fringe Savant and Evasion. Armor Proficiency is good but stops being worthwhile unless you grab a level of Soldier or a Prestige Class that grants Armored Defense. You may not use blasters enough to warrant too many ranged combat feats, but if you're only going to take one, I'd suggest Rapid Shot. Weapon Proficiency (Advanced Melee) and Linguist are there if you want them; Dodge is sub-par but works with any character concept; Running Attack can be used in either ranged or melee so it's a decent feat as well.

Rey and Luke were both Force-Sensitive Scouts :)

[Chelios]

Ty for advuces i was thinking to luke and rey for my character. My DM bans skill focus use the force, because he thinks it s lretty unbalanced.
For stats we yae 25 points build, how can i swap them?

[Waar]

Ty for advuces i was thinking to luke and rey for my character. My DM bans skill focus use the force, because he thinks it s lretty unbalanced.
For stats we yae 25 points build, how can i swap them?

Skill focus use the force is unbalanced at low levels, but lacking it at high levels is a major weakness. My solution is usually to just tell players to not pick it say for the first 4 levels

[Chelios]

Skill focus use the force is unbalanced at low levels, but lacking it at high levels is a major weakness. My solution is usually to just tell players to not pick it say for the first 4 levels

Probably he uses +2 for the first 5 lvs and +5 from lv 6th.

[stanprollyright]

I'm starting a new Saga campaign soon with two players that are big Star Wars fans but are new to TTRPGs. I've never played Saga before either (but I did play the old Star Wars d20, as well as lots of D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder). I'm not the most experienced GM, though I've co-DM-ed campaigns and run a few single sessions myself. I'm planning to string together prewritten modules and draw heavily from the Dawn of Defiance campaign. Since there are only two players, I'm probably going to give one of them possession of a droid GMPC to round out the party, and possibly give both players either Force Sensitive or Vehicular Combat for free (player's choice). It's a small party and I don't expect them to know how to min/max, so I'm thinking about combining the Block and Deflect talents into one, and making Armored Defense part of Armor Proficiency as well. They'll most likely be more into roleplay and skill-based encounters than combat, but I want them to be capable enough with minimal investment that I don't have to shy away from combat or dumb down the encounters too much.

I know that Skill Focus: UtF is overpowered at low levels, but I'm OK with that since they're new. I've also heard that the game math is wonky at high levels, and I'll worry about that if/when we get there.

Do the house rules seem appropriate? And module suggestions? General advice?

[Malifice]

I'm starting a new Saga campaign soon with two players that are big Star Wars fans but are new to TTRPGs. I've never played Saga before either (but I did play the old Star Wars d20, as well as lots of D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder). I'm not the most experienced GM. I'm planning to string together prewritten modules and draw heavily from the Dawn of Defiance campaign. Since there are only two players, I'm probably going to give one of them possession of a droid GMPC to round out the party, and possibly give both players either Force Sensitive or Vehicular Combat for free (player's choice). It's a small party and I don't expect them to know how to min/max, so I'm thinking about combining the Block and Deflect talents into one, and making Armored Defense part of Armor Proficiency as well. They'll most likely be more into roleplay and skill-based encounters than combat, but I want them to be capable enough with minimal investment that I don't have to shy away from combat or dumb down the encounters too much.

I know that Skill Focus: UtF is overpowered at low levels, but I'm OK with that since they're new. I've also heard that the game math is wonky at high levels, and I'll worry about that if/when we get there.

Do the house rules seem appropriate? And module suggestions? General advice?

Common houserules I use are:

1) Skill focus when used on a skill that targets defences is wildly OP (UtF is the biggest offender). The scaling is completely wonky till you hit 20th level (when it finally evens out). A simple solution is to create a seperate 'Skill attack roll' when you use a skill vs a targets defence scores. I suggest the following rule:

Skill attack roll: Whenever you use a skill directly opposed to a targets defence score (including many applications of Use the Force, Persuasion and Deception), you must make a separate additional skill attack roll to determine overall success. Your target number for this attack equals the targets relevant defence score. This is in addition to any skill check to determine variable effect (such as with many force powers).

The skill attack roll is:

D20 + Heroic level + (ability score modifier) vs. the targets relevant Defence

The ability score modifier for your skill attack roll is the same ability score modifier linked to the skill.

In addition, you apply the following modifiers to your skill attack roll:

Untrained in the skill -5 penalty
Skill Focus in the skill +2 competence bonus

Any other bonuses or penalties on the skill check from other sources also apply to the skill attack roll.

2) When you multiclass into a new class, you can select skill training in one of that classes class skills instead of a feat.

3) Vehicle combat is wonky. Capital ship weapons insta gib anything that they hit even with size modifiers taken into account. Even worse a natural 20 vs a PC ship = TPK. Considering the sheer volume of fire from such ships, its very likely they will get a natural 20.

Allow vehicle combat's dodge to be used multiple times in a round (at -5 cumulative) akin to block and deflect. The Juke talent from Ace Pilot lessens this penalty by 5.

Apply the rule all capital scale weapons (x5 and above multipliers) incur a -20 to hit collossal (freighter) and smaller ships. Any weapon that has this rule does not automatically hit on a natural 20, and cannot crit when firing at such vessels.

They can still hit (simply have the other guns in the battery 'aid another' for a +2 to hit per gun aiding) but they dont auto vaporise the PC's vessel.

4) Healing is a major problem with SWSE and the slow rate of healing is not line with the cinematic adventure of the films. I suggest:

Increase healing surges to (1+[the higher of either con mod or class bonus to fort defence]). No more than one per encounter. Extra second wind feat adds 2 second winds to this total. The Tough as nails talent lets you use a second wind when above 50 percent of your HP total.

Have the first aid application of the Treat Injury skill heal the PC's second wind value (to make it stronger and simpler to rule).

Amend vital transfer to read: Special: You may spend a Force Point to avoid taking any damage when you use this Force power. A character can benefit from vital transfer only once in a 24-hour period, but you can use a Force Point to overcome this restriction when you activate vital transfer. (Since you can spend only one Force Point per round, you cannot also spend a Force Point to avoid taking damage from the use of vital transfer)

5: Dark side temptation doesnt exist. I use the following:

Calling on the Dark Side If your Dark Side Score is less than your Wisdom, you can call on the dark side (as a free action) to gain a temporary Force Point. If the Force Point is not used before the end of the encounter, it is lost. Calling on the dark side is a major transgression (see page 94 of the Saga Edition Core Rulebook).

Only heroic characters with the Force Sensitive feat can call on the dark side. You may only call on the Dark side once per encounter.

The Threshold of Evil When your Dark Side Score increases, roll 1d6 and add your new Dark Side Score. If the result exceeds your Wisdom by 3 or more points, your Dark Side Score increases to your Wisdom score; and you turn to the dark side.

6: Use fractional BAB for 3/4 BAB classes (also fixes a problem with BAB scaling). Add up your levels in all 3/4 BAB classes and PRC's and use that as a single level applied to the 3/4 BAB progression (or simply use the following chart, rounding fractions down):

Level BAB.
1 0.75
2 1.5
3 2.25
4 3
5 3.75
6 4.5
7 5.25
8 6
9 6.75
10 7.5
11 8.25
12 9
13 9.75
14 10.5
15 11.25
16 12
17 12.75
18 13.5
19 14.25
20 15

7) Mooks. I use the following feat errata:

COORDINATED ATTACK
You are skilled at coordinating your attacks with your allies.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You are automatically successful when using the aid another action to aid an ally's attack or suppress an enemy.
Normal: You must make an attack roll against a Reflex Defense of 10 to gain the benefits of the aid another action.

This lets me have say 6 stormtroopers shoot the one attack at +10 to hit (The first 5 aid the last one for +2 each). One roll required. It matches WEGs mook method perfectly (theyre dangerous in numbers) and speeds the game up. Feel free to give the feat to sith troopers, imperial gunners, tie pilots etc.

8) Action economy. Make every ability that requires a full round action to instead require a standard action. Remove full round actions from the game.

Makes for a more cinematic game in line with 5E.

[Mando Knight]

7) Mooks. I use the following feat errata:

COORDINATED ATTACK
You are skilled at coordinating your attacks with your allies.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You are automatically successful when using the aid another action to aid an ally's attack or suppress an enemy.
Normal: You must make an attack roll against a Reflex Defense of 10 to gain the benefits of the aid another action.

This lets me have say 6 stormtroopers shoot the one attack at +10 to hit (The first 5 aid the last one for +2 each). One roll required. It matches WEGs mook method perfectly (theyre dangerous in numbers) and speeds the game up. Feel free to give the feat to sith troopers, imperial gunners, tie pilots etc.

The change (removing the adjacent or point blank stipulation from the benefit) isn't really necessary: it's generally rare that anyone will engage stormtroopers (who already always have the feat) beyond their Point Blank range (30 squares, or ~45 meters) if you use a grid, since it's actually a fairly wide range in practice, most likely to come into play with a large docking bay or an open field rather than a fight within town or the usual starship corridors.

[stanprollyright]

Common houserules I use are:

Spoiler

Show

1) Skill focus when used on a skill that targets defences is wildly OP (UtF is the biggest offender). The scaling is completely wonky till you hit 20th level (when it finally evens out). A simple solution is to create a seperate 'Skill attack roll' when you use a skill vs a targets defence scores. I suggest the following rule:

Skill attack roll: Whenever you use a skill directly opposed to a targets defence score (including many applications of Use the Force, Persuasion and Deception), you must make a separate additional skill attack roll to determine overall success. Your target number for this attack equals the targets relevant defence score. This is in addition to any skill check to determine variable effect (such as with many force powers).

The skill attack roll is:

D20 + Heroic level + (ability score modifier) vs. the targets relevant Defence

The ability score modifier for your skill attack roll is the same ability score modifier linked to the skill.

In addition, you apply the following modifiers to your skill attack roll:

Untrained in the skill -5 penalty
Skill Focus in the skill +2 competence bonus

Any other bonuses or penalties on the skill check from other sources also apply to the skill attack roll.

2) When you multiclass into a new class, you can select skill training in one of that classes class skills instead of a feat.

3) Vehicle combat is wonky. Capital ship weapons insta gib anything that they hit even with size modifiers taken into account. Even worse a natural 20 vs a PC ship = TPK. Considering the sheer volume of fire from such ships, its very likely they will get a natural 20.

Allow vehicle combat's dodge to be used multiple times in a round (at -5 cumulative) akin to block and deflect. The Juke talent from Ace Pilot lessens this penalty by 5.

Apply the rule all capital scale weapons (x5 and above multipliers) incur a -20 to hit collossal (freighter) and smaller ships. Any weapon that has this rule does not automatically hit on a natural 20, and cannot crit when firing at such vessels.

They can still hit (simply have the other guns in the battery 'aid another' for a +2 to hit per gun aiding) but they dont auto vaporise the PC's vessel.

4) Healing is a major problem with SWSE and the slow rate of healing is not line with the cinematic adventure of the films. I suggest:

Increase healing surges to (1+[the higher of either con mod or class bonus to fort defence]). No more than one per encounter. Extra second wind feat adds 2 second winds to this total. The Tough as nails talent lets you use a second wind when above 50 percent of your HP total.

Have the first aid application of the Treat Injury skill heal the PC's second wind value (to make it stronger and simpler to rule).

Amend vital transfer to read: Special: You may spend a Force Point to avoid taking any damage when you use this Force power. A character can benefit from vital transfer only once in a 24-hour period, but you can use a Force Point to overcome this restriction when you activate vital transfer. (Since you can spend only one Force Point per round, you cannot also spend a Force Point to avoid taking damage from the use of vital transfer)

5: Dark side temptation doesnt exist. I use the following:

Calling on the Dark Side If your Dark Side Score is less than your Wisdom, you can call on the dark side (as a free action) to gain a temporary Force Point. If the Force Point is not used before the end of the encounter, it is lost. Calling on the dark side is a major transgression (see page 94 of the Saga Edition Core Rulebook).

Only heroic characters with the Force Sensitive feat can call on the dark side. You may only call on the Dark side once per encounter.

The Threshold of Evil When your Dark Side Score increases, roll 1d6 and add your new Dark Side Score. If the result exceeds your Wisdom by 3 or more points, your Dark Side Score increases to your Wisdom score; and you turn to the dark side.

6: Use fractional BAB for 3/4 BAB classes (also fixes a problem with BAB scaling). Add up your levels in all 3/4 BAB classes and PRC's and use that as a single level applied to the 3/4 BAB progression (or simply use the following chart, rounding fractions down):

Level BAB.
1 0.75
2 1.5
3 2.25
4 3
5 3.75
6 4.5
7 5.25
8 6
9 6.75
10 7.5
11 8.25
12 9
13 9.75
14 10.5
15 11.25
16 12
17 12.75
18 13.5
19 14.25
20 15

7) Mooks. I use the following feat errata:

COORDINATED ATTACK
You are skilled at coordinating your attacks with your allies.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You are automatically successful when using the aid another action to aid an ally's attack or suppress an enemy.
Normal: You must make an attack roll against a Reflex Defense of 10 to gain the benefits of the aid another action.

This lets me have say 6 stormtroopers shoot the one attack at +10 to hit (The first 5 aid the last one for +2 each). One roll required. It matches WEGs mook method perfectly (theyre dangerous in numbers) and speeds the game up. Feel free to give the feat to sith troopers, imperial gunners, tie pilots etc.

8) Action economy. Make every ability that requires a full round action to instead require a standard action. Remove full round actions from the game.

Makes for a more cinematic game in line with 5E.

Thanks a bunch! This is really helpful.

1) seems like an unnecessary layer of complication. Since my players don't know how to min/max or abuse the system, I'll probably do skill attacks as written. Even if they stumble on an OP trick this way I don't mind since they'll be a small party of noobs.

2) I like this rule.

3) Thanks, I hadn't realized ship combat was so deadly. That cumulative -5 for vehicular combat and capital ship weapons not auto-hitting on a 20 is a good idea. I'll implement that if it comes up. I don't know if they'll want to do much ship combat, though, since the rules are confusing. I might glaze over ship stuff for a while until they're more used to the regular rules.

4) I'll definitely keep the healing thing in mind. I was going to be pretty liberal with out of combat healing.

5) I'm not sure I'm going to use Dark Side points, I was planning on making it strictly a roleplay thing. I do like the "Calling on the Dark Side" rule you proposed, though.

6) Was gonna do that anyway :)

7) That looks great! I recall there being "battery fire" in the old RCR that was like that, where you got hit with an extra attack for every 5 points the single attack exceeds your defense.

[Mando Knight]

3) Thanks, I hadn't realized ship combat was so deadly. That cumulative -5 for vehicular combat and capital ship weapons not auto-hitting on a 20 is a good idea. I'll implement that if it comes up. I don't know if they'll want to do much ship combat, though, since the rules are confusing. I might glaze over ship stuff for a while until they're more used to the regular rules.

It's deadly because in general, you're not supposed to fight capital ships with starfighters and freighters. If you're rolling a Star Destroyer's turbolasers against a squadron of X-Wings because it's there (as a set piece) during the heroes' dogfight against TIE fighters, you're doing the fight wrong: have it function as hazardous terrain (see Starships of the Galaxy's Tactical Fire option) rather than an actual combatant.

[Malifice]

Thanks a bunch! This is really helpful.

1) seems like an unnecessary layer of complication. Since my players don't know how to min/max or abuse the system, I'll probably do skill attacks as written. Even if they stumble on an OP trick this way I don't mind since they'll be a small party of noobs.

The issue is a scaling one. At 1st level, a human Jedi can have a UTF bonus of +12 (5 for trained, 5 for skill focus, and 2 for charisma).

He automatically force chokes, mind tricks etc anyone with a defence score of 13 or less (skills dont auto fail on a 1)... so pretty much everyone.

An easier houserule is to ban the skill focus feat till the PC's reach a 'heroic tier of play' (arbitrarily usually set at 7th level).

3) Thanks, I hadn't realized ship combat was so deadly. That cumulative -5 for vehicular combat and capital ship weapons not auto-hitting on a 20 is a good idea. I'll implement that if it comes up. I don't know if they'll want to do much ship combat, though, since the rules are confusing. I might glaze over ship stuff for a while until they're more used to the regular rules.

Imperial star destroyer has

5 x heavy turbolaser batteries (11d10x5) at +15 each
5 x turbo laser batteries (8d10x5) at +15 each
(and more).

Fired individually, thats 10 attack rolls per round (a 50 percent chance of a natural 20 every round, and at a huge range). [(11d10x5)x2] = 600 points of damage on average. A YT transport has 120 hit points.

With a bonus of +15 (and a penalty of -20) to hit smaller PC sized vessels, even an 'autohit' of a natural 20 = a result of 15, which is reasonable for a pilot to dodge one or two lucky hits. (1d20 + Pilot skill + vehicles dex - vehicles size mod - 5 for every dodge attempt per round after the 1st).

Simply letting a PC Pilot with vehicular combat dodge multiple times alleviates the main problem with starship combat.

Also, allow destiny points to be spent on starships by any PC aboard. This also mitigates auto vaporisation of the entire party!

4) I'll definitely keep the healing thing in mind. I was going to be pretty liberal with out of combat healing.

I also use the 'if you rest for 8 hours and have no persistent injuries, your HP are refreshed to maximum' just like how 5E handles it.

Hit points are plot armor points anyways. It is star wars after all!

Basically, the extra second wind variant works out to every PC getting between 1 and 6 (1/encounter heal yourself of 25 percent of your hit points, or your con score whichever is higher) mini heals. Only usable when youre at 50 percent or lower hp.

A medpac and treat injury gives you another one per day, useable at any time (even if above 50 percent HP). I also let medics heal disease and poison (using the poison and disease DC as the treat injury DC). Using a medkit or a medpac adds 5 to the check result.

It encourages the PC's to push on instead of crawl into a hole for 24 hours and heal up, which is much more in line with the cinematic feel of star wars.

Just be careful with how having extra second winds interacts with other feats (like the one in the rebellion era sourcebook that lets you take multiple second winds in a single encounter). I personally rule that particular feat to read 'not more than twice per encounter'

5) I'm not sure I'm going to use Dark Side points, I was planning on making it strictly a roleplay thing. I do like the "Calling on the Dark Side" rule you proposed, though.

For mine, the essense of Star Wars is good v evil, redemption and atonement. Its a core theme of every movie released to date. I strongly suggest using them, but its a flavor thing.

I also really like the temptation thing. An extra force point when ever you want one is a tempting thing indeed :)

7) That looks great! I recall there being "battery fire" in the old RCR that was like that, where you got hit with an extra attack for every 5 points the single attack exceeds your defense.

Starship batteries still work the same (extra dice damage for every 5 over the target number). This just speeds up mook battles and ensures that even a lowly stormtrooper can be a threat to a high level PC (in enough numbers).

It's deadly because in general, you're not supposed to fight capital ships with starfighters and freighters. If you're rolling a Star Destroyer's turbolasers against a squadron of X-Wings because it's there (as a set piece) during the heroes' dogfight against TIE fighters, you're doing the fight wrong: have it function as hazardous terrain (see Starships of the Galaxy's Tactical Fire option) rather than an actual combatant.

And yet the movies and tv series are replete with a lone smaller ship getting fired on by a star destroyer type ship.

Its really easy to simply allow vehicle combat multiple times per round (at a cumulative -5), and allow destiny points to save your bacon even on a fail.

Even if a star destroyer got lucky and generated 4 'natual 20's' out of 10 shots aimed at an Xwing (assume 6th level, skill focus pilot, Dex 16).

+6 dex, -5 size, +5 trained, +5 skill focus, +3 Dex, +3 level = +17 to pilot.

He dodges the first one automatically, the second one on 3+, the third one on an 8+ and the last one on a 13+

Im not saying you should throw CR20 star destroyers at the PC's as a matter of habit. Im just pointing out that simply allowing multiple uses of vehicle combats 'dodge' per round allows for some scenes to be mechancically modelled that would otherwise be reduced to 'if I roll 2 natural 20's here, its an auto TPK'.

It also beefs up piloting generally. Why should jedi ahve all the fun :)

[stanprollyright]

Capital ships have lots of batteries, but they're positioned all around the ship facing different directions. I wouldn't expect a capital ship to be able to bring all its guns to bear on a smaller target. Even during a broadside against another capital ship, they would only be able to fire with half of their batteries.

I don't know if the rules include firing arcs or anything to that effect, but I would definitely implement that kind of common sense ruling.

[Malifice]

Capital ships have lots of batteries, but they're positioned all around the ship facing different directions. I wouldn't expect a capital ship to be able to bring all its guns to bear on a smaller target. Even during a broadside against another capital ship, they would only be able to fire with half of their batteries.

I don't know if the rules include firing arcs or anything to that effect, but I would definitely implement that kind of common sense ruling.

Star destroyers are triangular for a reason man. This means they can bring all their fire to bear on a target to the front of the vessel. They do have a big blind spot at the rear though (only a single heavy and normal battery can fire rearwards, both mounted on turrets under the vessel).

SWSE doesnt use facing though. Its not needed.

[Jayngfet]

The issue is a scaling one. At 1st level, a human Jedi can have a UTF bonus of +12 (5 for trained, 5 for skill focus, and 2 for charisma).

He automatically force chokes, mind tricks etc anyone with a defence score of 13 or less (skills dont auto fail on a 1)... so pretty much everyone.

If it were me I'd just hand it to them.

I mean lets be honest here, being level one in a Saga game is usually code for "I am a walking joke only trusted with anything for meta purposes", since you have less feats and experience than a stock henchman and even random younglings have five levels in jedi explicitly. You can look up basically every stock NPC out of the box any everything will at worst match them and on average be five times better.

Saga is very much the kind of game that presumes players are going to start at a higher level. Because basically everything will kill you in two hits at level one and even a stock stormtrooper can consistently dodge your attacks and shoot you dead on, and the only way to get a fighting chance of seeing an actually playable level is to abuse everything you've got.

Besides, if you can't consistently do your one trick then there's no real point in playing. Because at low levels sinking even one feat into something is a huge investment. Especially at level one where you get no bonus feats and your defenses are garbage because you're level one and can't afford actually worthwhile armor, and you have a singular destiny point.

[Malifice]

If it were me I'd just hand it to them.

I mean lets be honest here, being level one in a Saga game is usually code for "I am a walking joke only trusted with anything for meta purposes", since you have less feats and experience than a stock henchman and even random younglings have five levels in jedi explicitly. You can look up basically every stock NPC out of the box any everything will at worst match them and on average be five times better.

Saga is very much the kind of game that presumes players are going to start at a higher level. Because basically everything will kill you in two hits at level one and even a stock stormtrooper can consistently dodge your attacks and shoot you dead on, and the only way to get a fighting chance of seeing an actually playable level is to abuse everything you've got.

Besides, if you can't consistently do your one trick then there's no real point in playing. Because at low levels sinking even one feat into something is a huge investment. Especially at level one where you get no bonus feats and your defenses are garbage because you're level one and can't afford actually worthwhile armor, and you have a singular destiny point.

Im sorry. Assume a Jedi, human, 1st level. =12 in UTF, force choke, force slam and mind trick. +3 to hit with a lightsaber.

How is a stormtrooper pwning me again? If I win initiative, he dies, no save. If he wins, I'll almost certainly deflect his ranged attack against me, and then kill him, no save. Even if he hits me, he cant kill me, barring a critical hit (and even that I can deflects 50 percent of the time).

Im not sure I call that a 'not even padawan' level crap PC.

Im not saying the above level of awesome v a stormtrooper is bad by the way. It IS star wars. Im just not buying the acceptance of the scaling problems with saga as 'not that much of an issue' argument. Skills start off OP, and then gradualy reach parity with attacks. Thehy should scale at the same rate for mine.

[Barzotten]

I`m from mobile so some option may non be available, so forgive me for my horrible post.

I've round this post quote about a build :

[QUOTE/]I made (and sadly, never got to play, a Jedi 1/scout 6/ assassin x

Dual wield light sabers, IIRC, it was possible to do 16D6 damage AND -4 spots on the conditions track per turn. Lightsaber/lightsaber/lightsaber/lightsaber and then for each hit that overcame threshold and thus lowered condition, an extra 3D6 damage.[/QUOTE]


Could someone help me reconstruct the build feats and talents?

Some obvious ones are the dual wield line.

[Chelios]

Hi guys anther request, one of my friend want to play a character like han solo, but whit a bit of force power, and he wants him mon calamari species, is it possible or is it really difficult to build?

[Jayngfet]

Im sorry. Assume a Jedi, human, 1st level. =12 in UTF, force choke, force slam and mind trick. +3 to hit with a lightsaber.

How is a stormtrooper pwning me again? If I win initiative, he dies, no save. If he wins, I'll almost certainly deflect his ranged attack against me, and then kill him, no save. Even if he hits me, he cant kill me, barring a critical hit (and even that I can deflects 50 percent of the time).

Im not sure I call that a 'not even padawan' level crap PC.

Im not saying the above level of awesome v a stormtrooper is bad by the way. It IS star wars. Im just not buying the acceptance of the scaling problems with saga as 'not that much of an issue' argument. Skills start off OP, and then gradualy reach parity with attacks. Thehy should scale at the same rate for mine.

You can maybe burn your force powers and do it. But if you have skill focus and training at level 1 that means you're literally useless 99 percent of the time because you aren't proficient with a ranged weapon that can hit at a range and if the trooper isn't in melee distance you're basically screwed.

And with a +3 to lightsaber you aren't hitting him on an average roll because his defense is 16.

So unless you burn literally everything in your build you can't actually kill the trooper because your basic attack won't do it. Even then congratulations, you killed one trooper who walked into melee range. If this is an actual encounter then expect him to have at least a small fireteam of people better armed and armored than your party and to actually try hitting you at a range. Or autofire comes into play and suddenly you ain't deflecting anything.

As far as I'm concerned, if a player has all of ONE trick, then that trick ought to work consistently. Because this character isn't going to be a party dedicated mechanic, or contributing in space battles, or, firing any bigger guns. If they can't do their one trick consistently then they become a liability to the rest of the group.

[Malifice]

You can maybe burn your force powers and do it. But if you have skill focus and training at level 1 that means you're literally useless 99 percent of the time because you aren't proficient with a ranged weapon that can hit at a range and if the trooper isn't in melee distance you're basically screwed.

And with a +3 to lightsaber you aren't hitting him on an average roll because his defense is 16.

So unless you burn literally everything in your build you can't actually kill the trooper because your basic attack won't do it. Even then congratulations, you killed one trooper who walked into melee range. If this is an actual encounter then expect him to have at least a small fireteam of people better armed and armored than your party and to actually try hitting you at a range. Or autofire comes into play and suddenly you ain't deflecting anything.

As far as I'm concerned, if a player has all of ONE trick, then that trick ought to work consistently. Because this character isn't going to be a party dedicated mechanic, or contributing in space battles, or, firing any bigger guns. If they can't do their one trick consistently then they become a liability to the rest of the group.

Force grip. Ranged attack. He dies. No save.

[Waar]

Force grip. Ranged attack. He dies. No save.

Force grip is dc 15 for 2d6, hardly a guaranteed kill, you would need to get at least 20 to reliably down the stormtrooper in 1 turn.
Besides force grip has only got a range of 18 meters, barely more than a charge.

[stanprollyright]

So what's the deal with Severing Strike? It seems like all the iconic Jedi characters have it, yet it might be the most useless talent ever (it only works after you've already killed your opponent). If it is necessary for the movie Jedi to have, and something a player would never take because it offers no real benefit, shouldn't it just be a mechanic of the game?