Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

[Mando Knight]

1) Is there a statted out "Standard space ship"? Just something like a space RV. Just something with a small storage room, cockpit for 1 person (or 2 if a droid is allowed to do this), a kitchen and a sleeping room/cot.

That's a light freighter. YT-1300, Core p. 182. Alternate light freighters are available in Starships of the Galaxy and a few other books. Yes, it's roomier than a literal space RV would be, but light freighters like the YT-1300 fill the same role in Star Wars as a highly-customizable medium truck frame does in our world.

2) Where can I find stuff about Tech specialist, since I can't seem to find anything in the books we own (Core, Jedi Acadamy, Force Unleashed, Rebellion Era, Clone Wars, Droids and galaxy at war).

Starships. There's also a web supplement that detailed it, but it's in Starships. That and Scum & Villainy are basically must-haves for techie characters.

3) Which of these feats are "better" for damage (or Survival) in a solo campaign? Rapid Strike, Power Attack, one of the Second Wind feats or Skill focus in anything (except UtF [will not take it yet, maybe at level 6).

Rapid Strike is better than Power Attack. For a lightsaber, Rapid Strike is a fixed -2 attack for an average +4.5 damage even when one-handing your weapon, Power Attack needs you to two-hand to get a -2 attack for +4 damage, and attack bonuses are at a premium in Saga. Oh, and for whatever reason you can't Power Attack against a vehicle or object.

[Jayngfet]

Possibly enough DSPs to immediately make the PCs responsible NPCs.

Yeah, it was terrible.

However.

One Million Credits.

[Sith_Happens]

Yeah, it was terrible.

However.

One Million Credits.

[LibraryOgre]

I've got 3 questions:

1) Is there a statted out "Standard space ship"? Just something like a space RV. Just something with a small storage room, cockpit for 1 person (or 2 if a droid is allowed to do this), a kitchen and a sleeping room/cot.

I created something like that, but never posted it. A slow-haul freighter, designed to take standard shipping containers and move them at something like backup hyperdrive speeds. One or two people, maybe a couple droids, and a lot of holonovels.

[Mando Knight]

Oh, there's also the civilian version of the TIE Scout, which while unmarked for it, should maybe lose the insanely strong sensor package in return for its ridiculous (for a Gargantuan ship) cargo and passenger space.

[Jayngfet]

I created something like that, but never posted it. A slow-haul freighter, designed to take standard shipping containers and move them at something like backup hyperdrive speeds. One or two people, maybe a couple droids, and a lot of holonovels.

The thing about backup hyperdrives is they're so low even compared to normal emplacement points that a few jobs in there's no real excuse not to get like, at least a class 3.

[Krazzman]

That's a light freighter. YT-1300, Core p. 182. Alternate light freighters are available in Starships of the Galaxy and a few other books. Yes, it's roomier than a literal space RV would be, but light freighters like the YT-1300 fill the same role in Star Wars as a highly-customizable medium truck frame does in our world.

Will look it up tonight. But seems like I need 2 more books. Isn't like I ordered scum and villainy twice already... (once got force unleashed and second d time nothing...)

Starships. There's also a web supplement that detailed it, but it's in Starships. That and Scum & Villainy are basically must-haves for techie characters.

Rapid Strike is better than Power Attack. For a lightsaber, Rapid Strike is a fixed -2 attack for an average +4.5 damage even when one-handing your weapon, Power Attack needs you to two-hand to get a -2 attack for +4 damage, and attack bonuses are at a premium in Saga. Oh, and for whatever reason you can't Power Attack against a vehicle or object.

Either vibro axe or vibro blade. The character in question had no jedi training. Hence my thoughts about ditching force grip for battle strike or similar.

[Mando Knight]

Either vibro axe or vibro blade. The character in question had no jedi training. Hence my thoughts about ditching force grip for battle strike or similar.

Either way, you're going to be one-handing a vibro-blade for 2d6, which will net you +1 per each -1 you take for Power Attack while giving you average +3.5 for only -2 with Rapid Strike, or you'll be two-handing a vibro-axe for 2d10, which gives +2 damage per -1 attack with Power Attack or +5.5 average damage for -2 with Rapid Strike. It's pretty clear to me that Rapid Strike beats Power Attack in basically every applicable situation.

[Krazzman]

Either way, you're going to be one-handing a vibro-blade for 2d6, which will net you +1 per each -1 you take for Power Attack while giving you average +3.5 for only -2 with Rapid Strike, or you'll be two-handing a vibro-axe for 2d10, which gives +2 damage per -1 attack with Power Attack or +5.5 average damage for -2 with Rapid Strike. It's pretty clear to me that Rapid Strike beats Power Attack in basically every applicable situation.

Jeah but it's axe or sword. My phone just fixed vibro sword into blade. .. it''s still pretty clear.

[LibraryOgre]

The thing about backup hyperdrives is they're so low even compared to normal emplacement points that a few jobs in there's no real excuse not to get like, at least a class 3.

It was for a KOTOR-era game, for large, regular deliveries.

[Sith_Happens]

It was for a KOTOR-era game, for large, regular deliveries.

That might change things a bit. How much slower are the hyperdrives in that era on average anyways?

[LibraryOgre]

That might change things a bit. How much slower are the hyperdrives in that era on average anyways?

I want to say they're about half the speed, but I don't have things handy to check.

[Mando Knight]

I want to say they're about half the speed, but I don't have things handy to check.

I didn't find any rules in KotOR about reducing hyperdrive speeds, and the most ships still have x2 hyperdrives (only surprisingly few GCW-era ships have x1 or better), though KotOR ships are more likely to have x3s than GCW vessels are.

[Alejandro]

Here is a somewhat bizarre request:

What is being created: A Shard PC. (in the Jedi book.)

This particular Shard is not so much in a droid body per se, but in a 'weapon' body. Backstory: During the Galactic Empire, the Shard homeworld Orax was pretty well boned, many Shards exterminated, etc. Palpatine experimented with building some Force-sensitive Shards (as many are) into weapons, with mixed results. The PCs find one of these 'weapons' in their post-Palpatine galaxy from one of his many stashes and labs, and thus the new PC is introduced.

We were envisioning something like a large hammer, force pike, or halberd, with the Shard itself just being a crystal that is mounted inside the weapon. Was avoiding sword stylized things, as there are already plenty of lightsabers and such about. It's technically a droid body, and the Shard can (once they are fixed, by the other PCs) use microrepulsors built into it to hover around on its own, and can even fight by itself, appearing to be a weapon without a wielder. It has relevant Force powers like Battle Strike and such. If the Shard is willing, it can even allow someone else to wield it, and contribute by using its Force powers along with the wielder (like using Battle Strike when the wielder attacks with it) but this might be rare, as the Shard isn't exactly happy over what was done to it. It has a vocoder in the weapon, as well as telepathy, to allow the Shard to talk to other people.

Terrible idea? Good idea? Anything else that could be done, or added/changed? Throw it out and start over?

[Mando Knight]

A weapon's object size is two levels smaller than its weapon size (which means that a creature the same object size as a weapon can't wield the weapon), and a weapon isn't a humanoid. Moreover, the droidification upgrade can't be applied to a weapon. In short, this idea is entirely out-of-bounds of the assumptions that Saga makes.

On the other hand, let's suppose that we're not saying no. That this completely different idea can work somehow, if you're the GM and you get to say what goes.

First, droidification takes up space. Strip the weapon in one manner or another to fit the droid parts. If it's just the shard crystal embedded in a weapon, that's not a player character, that's a weapon... it can't do the things it needs to do to interact with the world to be an actual player character any more than an intelligent magical sword in D&D can.

Next, ignore the ASP droid stats usually given to droidified equipment, and instead add the size modifiers to the Shard racial modifiers to determine stats... a Large weapon like a vibroaxe is Small (but we're going to ignore the limitations of being Small with regards to being able to wield one's own self), so the stat adjustments would be -2 Str, +2 Wis, +1 Reflex, +5 Stealth... and a cost factor of x2, doubling the price of any additional components. Give the character a reasonable Hover locomotion, but that's it: no limbs at all as compensation for getting an integrated weapon and hovering movement.

[Alejandro]

A weapon's object size is two levels smaller than its weapon size (which means that a creature the same object size as a weapon can't wield the weapon), and a weapon isn't a humanoid. Moreover, the droidification upgrade can't be applied to a weapon. In short, this idea is entirely out-of-bounds of the assumptions that Saga makes.

On the other hand, let's suppose that we're not saying no. That this completely different idea can work somehow, if you're the GM and you get to say what goes.

First, droidification takes up space. Strip the weapon in one manner or another to fit the droid parts. If it's just the shard crystal embedded in a weapon, that's not a player character, that's a weapon... it can't do the things it needs to do to interact with the world to be an actual player character any more than an intelligent magical sword in D&D can.

Next, ignore the ASP droid stats usually given to droidified equipment, and instead add the size modifiers to the Shard racial modifiers to determine stats... a Large weapon like a vibroaxe is Small (but we're going to ignore the limitations of being Small with regards to being able to wield one's own self), so the stat adjustments would be -2 Str, +2 Wis, +1 Reflex, +5 Stealth... and a cost factor of x2, doubling the price of any additional components. Give the character a reasonable Hover locomotion, but that's it: no limbs at all as compensation for getting an integrated weapon and hovering movement.

I reached a similar conclusion. However, the player has decided to go for a more traditional approach, and play a (much smaller) Shard Iron Giant. :)

[Scowling Dragon]

I just want to see if Im missing Something:

The 4rth Degree Droid Talent is Droid Smash (X2 Damage If your holding a Weapon in one arm) (Force Unleashed Droids)

And Combat Gauntlets technicaly make you Armed but unarmed as well as long as your trained in simple weapons, for the purposes of feats and talents correct? (Threats of the Galaxy Martial Artist). Would that count for Droid Smash. Because it asms about holding weapons and not unarmed attacks

Combined with Enchai Training feat (X2 STR Damage to a single unarmed attack you do if you only do 1 per turn) (Galaxy at war)

Combined with Slammer (Do a single unamred attack at X2 STR Damage) Scavangers guide to Droids

Does this all stack or am I missing something? Is that Weapon DamageX2^3

[Sith_Happens]

Unless Saga changed this and I'm not remembering, multipliers in d20 are additive, i.e.- each of those talents/feats "adds" x1 damage for a total of x4 damage with all three (assuming they do in fact work together).

[Scowling Dragon]

I remember some person said that the developers of Saga use regular multipliers and not additional multipliers. I may be wrong.

[Sasaisen]

I remember some person said that the developers of Saga use regular multipliers and not additional multipliers. I may be wrong.

I looked it up, and it seems to be backed up by quotes on BG, TGD, and the Wizards forums, but I don't have an original source to link. I don't know for sure if it was a FAQ (I believe it was) or reverse-engineered NPC stats or what. SAGA also omits the paragraph regarding multiplier math that 3/3.5e has.

[Scowling Dragon]

In any case I dealt with it by just not making multipliers stack.

And man do I hate Warp Drives as a concept. Its like D&D Teleport except available to everybody and destroys so many basic concepts that fun sci fi depends apon.

So far my players are not abusing it simply because of goodwill and kindness to my soul but man is all tension annihilated when you can teleport anywhere in the galaxy within a few days.

Anybody knows of any tech that interacts with Warp drives in interesting ways?

[Mando Knight]

If you don't like the Hyperdrive, you're perhaps playing the wrong setting. Star Wars in the classic era is about the action at the destinations, not the perils of the journeys there, and that's the way it has been since 1977. Complaining about safe and fast hyperdrive travel within the boundaries of galactic civilization is like complaining that the road from St. Louis to Oregon is too easy now that there's the Interstate Highway system and automobiles that let you travel it in a matter of a couple days instead of dysentery-plagued months.

That said, here are ways to make travel more dangerous within the constraints of the Star Wars setting:

• The enemies have hyperdrive, too: the reason the Falcon could reach Bespin within a relevant time period but couldn't use the backup drive to jump away from the Empire was because backup drives are much slower than the main drive. By the time the Falcon reached Bespin, Fett had already determined their destination and sent a signal to Vader, who was able to redeploy the Executor to Bespin from wherever it had gone after leaving Hoth and still had time to set up his trap before Solo got there. While the Imperial-class Star Destroyer only has a Class 2 drive, the Victory-class has a Class 1, meaning that if players don't have a cutting-edge (read: high-maintenance) hyperdrive, they don't necessarily buy themselves any time by jumping systems.
• Interdiction: Gravity well technology allows for the occasional pirate trap or impromptu Imperial inspection, by tearing a ship out of hyperspace before it reaches its intended destination.
• Unknown Regions: The areas within Republic/Imperial space are well mapped, but the Unknown Regions aren't, hence the name. Unmapped massive bodies and interstellar phenomena make plotting safe routes more difficult and provide ample sources of hazards that a poorly-calculated jump might pass through. Hidden Outer Rim worlds are a bit less dangerous to get to than the mysterious Unknown Regions, but could also require additional mapping time to ensure a safe route.
• Dangerous Destinations: Just because the trip itself was safe doesn't mean the destination is. If they're meeting with a Rebel contact on Chandrila, they still have to get through an Imperial blockade first... or at best, Imperial Customs.

[Scowling Dragon]

I mean things like Space Pirates. How does one get ambushed by space pirates for example? I mean I read the Pirates and Privateers Book, but I still feel like it leaves things unsatisfactory for many a part.

How does one get ambushed in space period?

You can't ever really have a sense of exploration, or isolation, because if worst comes to worst you take like 1/2 a day getting back home.

[Mando Knight]

I mean things like Space Pirates. How does one get ambushed by space pirates for example? I mean I read the Pirates and Privateers Book, but I still feel like it leaves things unsatisfactory for many a part.

How does one get ambushed in space period?

Interdictors. Piracy is also generally only an issue out on the Outer Rim, where there aren't enough patrol ships to ward off pirates intercepting traffic just outside orbit.

[Scowling Dragon]

That leads me to another question: When again can a ship warp away? Is it possible in atmosphere? Or only a certain distance in space?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Okay, Hyperdrives and gravity:

Basically, you can only enter/stay in hyperspace if you're a certain distance away from a large gravity well, whether that's generated by a black hole, a star, a planet, a large asteroid, or an artificial gravity-well generator. The standard method of piracy in the Star Wars galaxy - if they can't get their hands on military gravity well projectors - is to tow an asteroid into a heavily-trafficked hyperspace corridor and wait until someone's route passes too close to your ad hoc gravity well and they get pulled back into realspace. In the confusion, tear them apart while they're attempting to leave the gravity well (doesn't take too long vs. an asteroid, but an Interdictor Cruiser can keep an artificial gravity well up at a decent range) and calculate a new hyperspace route (might take several minutes, depending how far out in the boonies you are - see the rules under Use Computer and the extra complications in Unknown Regions).

Another winning pirate strategy is hanging out in moons and asteroid belts around worlds at important hyperspace crossroads, since there's usually a window of at minimum several minutes of sublight travel between edge-of-the-atmosphere and safe hyperspace entry distance. This is also basically how customs interdictions usually work - the government ships just hang out in orbit around the port and watch for anyone making for the planet surface - especially if they're trying to avoid being noticed.

Everything but the first paragraph in the Principles section of the Hyperdrive page on Wookiepedia is probably relevant to your interests.

[Sith_Happens]

You can't ever really have a sense of exploration, or isolation, because if worst comes to worst you take like 1/2 a day getting back home.

Exploration works just like it always does: go to the places that aren't well mapped. Isolation's a bit trickier, you do have to be pretty deep into the Unknown Regions before it gets hard to find a return route.

That leads me to another question: When again can a ship warp away? Is it possible in atmosphere? Or only a certain distance in space?

The primary obstacle is gravitational fields. Trying to hyper through any significant fraction of g is like hitting a brick wall, though every hyperdrive and it mother has safety features that will stop you before that point.

[Mando Knight]

Okay, Hyperdrives and gravity:

Basically, you can only enter/stay in hyperspace if you're a certain distance away from a large gravity well, whether that's generated by a black hole, a star, a planet, a large asteroid, or an artificial gravity-well generator. The standard method of piracy in the Star Wars galaxy - if they can't get their hands on military gravity well projectors - is to tow an asteroid into a heavily-trafficked hyperspace corridor and wait until someone's route passes too close to your ad hoc gravity well and they get pulled back into realspace. In the confusion, tear them apart while they're attempting to leave the gravity well (doesn't take too long vs. an asteroid, but an Interdictor Cruiser can keep an artificial gravity well up at a decent range) and calculate a new hyperspace route (might take several minutes, depending how far out in the boonies you are - see the rules under Use Computer and the extra complications in Unknown Regions).

Another winning pirate strategy is hanging out in moons and asteroid belts around worlds at important hyperspace crossroads, since there's usually a window of at minimum several minutes of sublight travel between edge-of-the-atmosphere and safe hyperspace entry distance. This is also basically how customs interdictions usually work - the government ships just hang out in orbit around the port and watch for anyone making for the planet surface - especially if they're trying to avoid being noticed.

Everything but the first paragraph in the Principles section of the Hyperdrive page on Wookiepedia is probably relevant to your interests.

Also, trying to jump to hyperspace when you're caught in a tractor beam will usually tear your ship apart, so interdiction is often complemented with a tractor beam to hold down the prey.

[LibraryOgre]

And don't forget the option for very fast strikes... a couple concussion missiles to take out the shields, then smash with Ion weapons (works less well in SAGA than d6, however). Disabled systems and they're adrift in space until they can fix it.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Also you might have gotten this already, but just to clarify a misconception you had in your first post: Hyperdrive is not teleportation. It's travel through a sort of shadow of realspace where maximum speed is pretty much arbitrarily high instead of being limited by the speed of light. There are physical paths you have to take through it that often shift, thanks to gravity wells of real objects casting their own shadows on Hyperspace that will terminally rip a starship back to reality if they get too close. It needs to be charted, mapped, and navigated as carefully as any real-world ocean. With the help of computers and a galactic-civilization-wide navigational network, a mishap is unlikely if you stick to the well-traveled routes (or have a very good computer), but there are still all kinds of options for accidents or "accidents" in hyperspace, and there's still travel time to account for.