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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    So, a lot of people dislike the current PhB weapon system and have created variant to their liking. Here is my attempt to bring distinction to weapons without 3.x levels of complications. Comments and criticism are welcome.

    Weapons.
    To determine a weapon's stats, you may apply a variety of positive and negative traits which effect the weapon's damage. A weapon's base is a one handed martial weapon that deals 1d10 damage. For each positive trait, decrease the weapon's damage die by one step (for example 1d10 to 1d8) and for each negative trait, increase the weapon's damage die by one step (for example 1d10 to 1d12). A one handed weapon may not have a damage die greater than 1d8 (1d6 for simple). This means you must apply traits to a weapon for it to be valid. You may only have one size, type, loading, and half trait.

    Positive Traits.
    • Simple. This weapon is usable by more classes.
    • Light. This weapon can be dual wielded. Size trait
    • Versatile If this weapon is wielded in two hands, increase its damage die by one step. Size trait
    • Precise You may add Intelligence or Strength for attack and damage with this weapon. Type trait
    • Finesse. You may add Dexterity or Strength for attack and damage with this weapon. Type trait
    • Reach. This weapon may make melee attacks against targets up to 10ft. away.
    • Thrown. This weapon may be used as a ranged attack with a 20/60 range.
    • Ammunition. This weapon requires ammunition to attack, has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets within 5ft., also it has a large range, this trait counts as two positive traits.
    • Formation. This weapon has advantage on attack rolls if an adjacent ally is wielding a weapon with the formation trait.
    • Crude. This weapon's cost is incredibly reduced, three may be crafted in one day at no cost as long materials are available.
    • Unpredictable. Targets do not receive any increase in AC from shields or parrying abilities.
    • Flaming. This weapon deals fire damage instead of piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning.
    • Poisonable. A poison may be applied to this weapon as part of an attack.
    • Armor Piercing. Targets that take damage from this weapon lose 1 AC bonus from their armor until your next turn. This penalty can be removed early if the damage if healed (natural armor) or if a mending spell is cast (fabricated armor). This penalty to AC does not stack with other penalties.
    • Crippling. If you deal more than 75% of your maximum damage with this weapon, the target's speed decreases by 10ft. until the damage is healed.
    • Brutal. On a critical hit or when this weapon drops a target to 0 hp, you may use a bonus action to force any number of target creatures within 30ft. who can see you, to make a DC8+Prof.+Damage Stat Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you until the end of combat. If you succeed the save, you are immune to the effects of this trait for 24 hours. If you fail the save, you may remake the save at the beginning of each turn, if you succeed an additional save the effect ends.
    • Defensive. While wielding this weapon, you gain 1 AC.
    • Concealed. Everyone has disadvantage on Investigation and Perception checks to detect this weapon. This trait may not be applied to weapons with the two-handed trait and only decreases the damage die by half a step.

    Negative Traits.
    • Two-Handed. This weapon must be held in two hands to attack with it. Size trait
    • Mounted. This weapon may ignore damage die limits, requires two hands to attack unless mounted, and has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets within 5ft. This trait counts as two negative traits. Size trait
    • Loading. This weapon may only attack once per turn regardless of how many attacks you may normally make. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the ammunition trait. Loading trait
    • Spring Loaded. This weapon may only attack once per turn regardless of how many attacks you may normally make. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the light trait. Loading trait
    • Offensive. While wielding this weapon, you lose 1 AC.
    • Heavy. This weapon has disadvantage on attack rolls for small characters. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the two-handed trait and only increases the damage die by half a step. Half trait
    • Fine. This weapon has disadvantage on attack rolls for medium characters. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the light trait and only increases the damage die by half a step. Half trait


    Spoiler: Example Weapons
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    Some sample weapons created with this system.
    Improved Pike. 1d8 Reach, Formation, Two-Handed
    Gnomish Spring Blade. 1d6 Light, Spring-Loaded, Precision, Poisonable, Fine, Concealed
    Oversized Axe. 2d6 Two-Handed, Offensive, Crippling, Heavy
    Lit Torch. 1d4 Simple, Light, Flaming
    Improved Flail. 1d8 Unpredictable
    Improved Warpick. 1d8 Armor Piercing


    Spoiler: Possible Problems
    Show
    A few options that might cause a problem.
    Precision. It can be applied to a ranged weapon, not sure what this means. (RAW strength to damage with ranged)
    Light. A martial weapon with only the light trait is technically legal. This means 2d8+2x damage at first level for a fighter. On average, 15 damage.
    Defensive. A S&B character can hit fairly high AC. Dual wielder + mariner gets you to the AC of S&B and better damage.
    Last edited by Torched Forever; 2015-07-16 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Fixing some traits

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Steampunkette's Avatar

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    I love precise and I love formation!

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    I like precise, too, though I worry about balance. Also, Armor Piercing seems far too powerful, almost magic item-level powerful. My favorites are Formation, Crude, Unpredictable, Brutal, and Fine.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Torched Forever View Post
    So, a lot of people dislike the current PhB weapon system and have created variant to their liking. Here is my attempt to bring distinction to weapons without 3.x levels of complications. Comments and criticism are welcome.

    Weapons.
    To determine a weapon's stats, you may apply a variety of positive and negative traits which effect the weapon's damage. A weapon's base is a one handed martial weapon that deals 1d10 damage. For each positive trait, decrease the weapon's damage die by one step (for example 1d10 to 1d8) and for each negative trait, increase the weapon's damage die by one step (for example 1d10 to 1d12). A one handed weapon may not have a damage die greater than 1d8 (1d6 for simple). This means you must apply traits to a weapon for it to be valid. You may only have one size, type, loading, and half trait.

    Positive Traits.
    • Simple. This weapon is usable by more classes.
    • Light. This weapon can be dual wielded. Size trait
    • Versatile If this weapon is wielded in two hands, increase its damage die by one step. Size trait
    • Precise You may add Intelligence or Strength for attack and damage with this weapon. Type trait
    • Finesse. You may add Dexterity or Strength for attack and damage with this weapon. Type trait
    • Reach. This weapon may make melee attacks against targets up to 10ft. away.
    • Thrown. This weapon may be used as a ranged attack with a 20/60 range.
    • Ammunition. This weapon requires ammunition to attack, has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets within 5ft., also it has a large range, this trait counts as two positive traits.
    • Formation. This weapon has advantage on attack rolls if an adjacent ally is wielding a weapon with the formation trait.
    • Crude. This weapon's cost is incredibly reduced, three may be crafted in one day at no cost as long materials are available.
    • Unpredictable. Targets do not receive any increase in AC from shields or parrying abilities.
    • Flaming. This weapon deals fire damage instead of piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning.
    • Poisonable. A poison may be applied to this weapon as part of an attack.
    • Armor Piercing. Targets that take damage from this weapon lose 1 AC bonus from their armor. This penalty is removed by spending 5sp per point in repairs to armor or when damage is healed for natural armor.
    • Crippling. On a critical hit, targets must make a DC12 Constitution saving throw or lose a limb.
    • Brutal. On a critical hit or when this weapon drops a target to 0 hp, you may use a bonus action to force any number of target creatures within 30ft. who can see you to make a DC10 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened of you.
    • Defensive. While wielding this weapon, you gain 1 AC.
    • Concealed. Everyone has disadvantage on Investigation and Perception checks to detect this weapon. This trait may not be applied to weapons with the two-handed trait and only decreases the damage die by half a step.

    Negative Traits.
    • Two-Handed. This weapon must be held in two hands to attack with it. Size trait
    • Mounted. This weapon may ignore damage die limits, requires two hands to attack unless mounted, and has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets within 5ft. This trait counts as two negative traits. Size trait
    • Loading. This weapon may only attack once per turn regardless of how many attacks you may normally make. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the ammunition trait. Loading trait
    • Spring Loaded. This weapon may only attack once per turn regardless of how many attacks you may normally make. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the light trait. Loading trait
    • Offensive. While wielding this weapon, you lose 1 AC.
    • Heavy. This weapon has disadvantage on attack rolls for small characters. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the two-handed trait and only increases the damage die by half a step. Half trait
    • Fine. This weapon has disadvantage on attack rolls for medium characters. This trait may only be applied to weapons with the light trait and only increases the damage die by half a step. Half trait
    I think the precise is just wrong, an intelligent guy would never be effective as a strong or acrobatic one, I really cannot imagine how a weapon like this would be or used, on the contrary I can imagine the finesse and the normal one.
    Formation is a really nice concept, may be even too strong.
    Unpredictable is really a good catch for weapons like a flail or nunckaku, that with random movements would be difficult to forsee.
    Crippling is strange, loosing a limb doesn't mean you are crippled, it means you are mutilated! Something like "if you do X or more damage with one hit reduce opponents speed by 10 ft" would be crippling.
    Brutal, fantastic exploit, to be more realistic the DC could be based on wielder charisma, a stunning action made by a black knight cursing everyone is different than an ignorant half drank dwarf that can barely speak.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLordIT View Post
    I think the precise is just wrong, an intelligent guy would never be effective as a strong or acrobatic one, I really cannot imagine how a weapon like this would be or used, on the contrary I can imagine the finesse and the normal one.
    Well, I don't know, my mates who do fencing say that intelligence is more important than precision, coordination or agility. Perhaps you can extrapolate it to medieval fencing.


    Just a silly question, though, how on earth do you increase the damage dice by half a step?
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    DiBastet's Avatar

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    maybe divide into two dice? like 1d12 becomes 2d6?
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Takewo View Post
    Well, I don't know, my mates who do fencing say that intelligence is more important than precision, coordination or agility. Perhaps you can extrapolate it to medieval fencing.


    Just a silly question, though, how on earth do you increase the damage dice by half a step?
    I practice medieval fencing and it is right, you can analyze every move, think to every position and every move you can do (and this is intelligence), but when it comes to a duel every theory fails, it is all a matter of eye catch, reflexes and being able to repeat the moves you have studied without thinking, cause if you think you are slower, and that is dexterity. While in medieval representation is more important to push your opponent until he drops, and that is strenght.
    This doesn't mean you can't unse intelligence in a duel, understangind how to deal with someone from his moves etc is important and it a matter of intellect, but to strike it is not.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLordIT View Post
    I practice medieval fencing and it is right, you can analyze every move, think to every position and every move you can do (and this is intelligence), but when it comes to a duel every theory fails, it is all a matter of eye catch, reflexes and being able to repeat the moves you have studied without thinking, cause if you think you are slower, and that is dexterity. While in medieval representation is more important to push your opponent until he drops, and that is strenght.
    This doesn't mean you can't unse intelligence in a duel, understangind how to deal with someone from his moves etc is important and it a matter of intellect, but to strike it is not.
    Well D&D isn't a simulation game, so Intelligence to attack and damage can make sense. I mean, I can't cast fireball using my Intelligence in real life but we can in this game.

    OP: I'm liking this, however the abilities (Armor piercing) that deal AC damage is a bit weird.

    To keep it from being fiddly and such ou can just say that after hitting a target with AP weapon they take a -2 to AC. This doesn't stack with other AC reducing effects.

    Also, perhaps you should make every feature have a positive and negative effect. This way you can pick up heavy as a good option or heavy as a bad option?

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    How is ammunition a positive trait, let alone worth two? At least just make it one, otherwise why not just make a throwing weapon?

    Also, I'm pretty sure giving Wizards Int-based weapons literally breaks the game. Not figuratively, literally.
    Last edited by JBPuffin; 2015-07-16 at 07:47 AM.
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Fixing the OP. Also, I noticed that precise could be applied to a ranged weapon, does that create a problem?

    @JBPuffin
    Ammunition is worth two traits because you are getting access to endless (as long as your ammo holds out) range. Throwing only grants 20ft. without disadvantage, while this grants access to longbow ranges. Also, wizards would still be outclassed by everyone who is vaguely a martial character. Even if the wizard dipped fighter or used a feat, he would be dealing 1d10+Int. There is no way for him to increase this damage past 9.5 average damage without taking levels in other classes. Not to mention the wizard could also just cast a combat cantrip with greater range, scaling, an additional effect, and better damage. This might make EK a little better (-1 damage for less MAD), but is not game breaking.

    @ThermalSlapShot
    I'm reworking armor piercing so it is simpler and less OP. Also, each trait is meant to be a equal trade off (except the half traits), you gain or lose some damage in return for an effect. As with the half traits, they make certain sizes better at different styles.

    @Takewo
    The Int to attack and damage represents the weapon being reliable and accurate enough for you to exploit weak points and patterns. A half step up would be 1d12 to 2d6, 1d8 to 2d4, and the like.

    @DragonLordIT
    A athletic (strength) or an acrobatic (dexterity) character is still more effective. The athletic character doesn't need to spend a trait to be able to get stat to damage and the acrobatic character is using the combat god stat of dexterity. Formation will only effect the party if they are fighting against it or are building around it. A bunch of goblins with formation pikes will be a serious threat to the party, where as the party is going to need 2+ martials who will not move too far away from each other to gain any benefit. It is very powerful if you allow hirelings though.
    I'm reworking crippling and brutal. The set DCs were a result of trying to shorten the wording when I was first creating them. However, I'm not going to have Charisma to DC for brutal. Yes that dwarf can barely convey the simplest of emotions, much less speak effectively, but he just hit your friend with enough force to kill a bear with a weapon that is both frightening and disturbing to look at.
    Last edited by Torched Forever; 2015-07-16 at 10:41 AM.

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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Brutal seems to me wildly overpowered since there's nothing preventing a player just using it over and over again. I'd add the standard "A creature who saves against this effect is immune until you finish a short or long rest" language to prevent it being the most outrageously reliable source for the fear condition in the game. At the very least add the ability to repeat the saving throw every turn so you can't just slowly work your way through all the enemies not currently afraid of you.
    Last edited by Flashy; 2015-07-16 at 07:56 PM.
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Brutal seems to me wildly overpowered since there's nothing preventing a player just using it over and over again. I'd add the standard "A creature who saves against this effect is immune until you finish a short or long rest" language to prevent it being the most outrageously reliable source for the fear condition in the game. At the very least add the ability to repeat the saving throw every turn so you can't just slowly work your way through all the enemies not currently afraid of you.
    It still consumes a bonus action, requires a crit/kill, allows a save, and lowers your average damage by one. I'll allow for further saves though and the immunity language. Thank you.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Torched Forever View Post
    Possible Problems...Light. A martial weapon with only the light trait is technically legal.
    Just impose a 1d6 limit. And basically the stat modifier is not added to the second attack.


    Example of a precise weapon ?

    A complex weapon:

    staff: crude, simple, defensive, 2-handed...
    if used with reach, not defensive (positive and negative traits nullify themselves).

    Can we apply defensive twice ? a staff not handed as a spear should get +2...

    Remove brutal. The barbarian already have intimidating presence. And I don't see the point for fine.
    Last edited by mictrepanier; 2015-07-17 at 05:42 PM.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Improved Weapon System [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by mictrepanier View Post
    Just impose a 1d6 limit. And basically the stat modifier is not added to the second attack.

    Can we apply defensive twice ? a staff not handed as a spear should get +2...

    Remove brutal. The barbarian already have intimidating presence. And I don't see the point for fine.
    I probably will add a limit to d6 for light weapons. Should it be like the one-hand limit and drop to d4 for simple or not?

    I'll add a clause to defensive (and maybe some other traits) that allows two-handed weapons to take the trait twice (still goes down by two steps). This lets 2h keep up with TWF using two defensive/whatever weapons.

    Yeah, brutal isn't the best designed trait. I might rework it into a bonus to intimidation rather than an ability. Fine is basically the reverse of heavy. It is meant to make small size have a different niche that medium instead of just imposing limits. I don't think this 'breaks' anything as Halflings are poor compared to some races and Gnomes are better casters.

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