Results 31 to 60 of 77
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2015-07-30, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2015-07-30, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
A lot of the concepts for the Veteran Tricks are fine in theory, but are substantially lacking in prerequisites and far too powerful for their level.
- Battlesense: Blindsight is pretty good. I'd restrict this to around 6th level.
- Bonus Feats: Any three feats. This is a lot of feats, and isn't limited to a list. Probably a bit much.
- Counterattack: This needs more than a once per round limit on it to prevent it from completely shutting down certain attack forms and strategies.
- Defender: Wow this needs so much more detail and wording. How far can you move? What if the attacker is adjacent to their target (that is, normal melee conditions?) If you intend for this to just combine and modify its prerequisite tricks, you need to really spell it out.
- Dominating Shout: No. Just, yikes no. Boosting skills is easy, and the wording just begs for someone to find a flat DC use of intimidate so they auto succeed on dominating mind-affecting immune enemies for days at a time. Or you could just get swift or move action dominate and spam this, which is also terrifying. Not only should this not be accessible at such a low level, but it needs revamping to prevent abuse.
- Full Attacker: The standard action thing? That's fine. Its basically just better pounce. Double full attack though, that's too much. Tome of Battle does the double full attack thing too, and people like it... and its once per encounter, and accessible at 17th level. Consider a Flurry of Blows equivalent instead.
- Headslam: The massive impact this trick has is ridiculous. It needs to be toned down in basically every aspect.
- Heroic Killing Blow: This is unclear, and probably overpowered. 'Hit' is not proper language. Be clear what the benefit is. Is every attack an automatic hit? Is every hit an automatic critical? Is it just that you provoke a save vs. death on each attack, which is what I think you're going for?
- Iron Mind: This is just better Mind Blank. Mind Blank comes online at about level 13 at the earliest (15 normally) and I recommend a comparable prerequisite level. Also, "telepathies" is both not a word, and also a strange immunity to give. How can you even be immune to telepathy, and why would you want to be?
- Loyal Companion: Come on, at least make the character act like a normal cohort. Making them equal to your level is nuts.
- Mortal Wound: Vague wording is always a bad idea. Define exactly what you want it to bypass and do, else you end up with an ability that turns off the sun. (Making me miss due to high AC reduces my damage, right? )
- Paragon: Perfection bonus is not an existing thing. Which is not bad, necessarily, except you go on to say it can stack with itself, so there's no reason to give it a named bonus type. Just remove it.
- Perfect Aim: I suggest clearing up exactly how this interacts with total concealment/invisibility.
- Snap Out Of It!: First, this should probably involve a check rather than being automatic. Second, breaking any illusion by yelling lets you do stuff like say, remove someone's invisibility or displacement. Third, telepathies still isn't a word and also isn't something you'd need to snap out of in the first place.
- Snap Shooter: This is terrifying. I suggest making a very specific list of what can and cannot provoke an AoO, else you will end up with shenanigans.
- Sudden Movement: The immediate action movement needs a limitation for the same reason as Counterattack.
- Terrifying Presence: If the penalty is that broad, scaling, and applied in so large an area, it needs to allow a save or something.
- Unbound Feat: This will only end badly. I can't immediately think of something horrible, but I'm sure there will be something to make it a thing of great regret.
- You have no power over me: No. Not only is this too broad, but this kind of ability should not exist.
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2015-07-30, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
I could say the same of the wizard spells with which the Veteran is supposed to be keeping up.
Battlesense: Blindsight is pretty good. I'd restrict this to around 6th level.
Bonus Feats: Any three feats. This is a lot of feats, and isn't limited to a list. Probably a bit much.
Counterattack: This needs more than a once per round limit on it to prevent it from completely shutting down certain attack forms and strategies.
Defender: Wow this needs so much more detail and wording. How far can you move? What if the attacker is adjacent to their target (that is, normal melee conditions?) If you intend for this to just combine and modify its prerequisite tricks, you need to really spell it out.
If you can't interpose yourself between the attacker and the target, you can't use the Defender ability.
Dominating Shout: No. Just, yikes no. Boosting skills is easy, and the wording just begs for someone to find a flat DC use of intimidate so they auto succeed on dominating mind-affecting immune enemies for days at a time. Or you could just get swift or move action dominate and spam this, which is also terrifying. Not only should this not be accessible at such a low level, but it needs revamping to prevent abuse.
Full Attacker: The standard action thing? That's fine. Its basically just better pounce. Double full attack though, that's too much. Tome of Battle does the double full attack thing too, and people like it... and its once per encounter, and accessible at 17th level. Consider a Flurry of Blows equivalent instead.
Headslam: The massive impact this trick has is ridiculous. It needs to be toned down in basically every aspect.
Heroic Killing Blow: This is unclear, and probably overpowered. 'Hit' is not proper language. Be clear what the benefit is. Is every attack an automatic hit? Is every hit an automatic critical? Is it just that you provoke a save vs. death on each attack, which is what I think you're going for?
"A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on the attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit."
"If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit."
When you do hit, it's resolved exactly as though it were a coup de grace, except that it's not necessarily a critical hit. This is exactly what is written in the text.
Iron Mind: This is just better Mind Blank. Mind Blank comes online at about level 13 at the earliest (15 normally) and I recommend a comparable prerequisite level. Also, "telepathies" is both not a word, and also a strange immunity to give. How can you even be immune to telepathy, and why would you want to be?
Loyal Companion: Come on, at least make the character act like a normal cohort. Making them equal to your level is nuts.
Mortal Wound: Vague wording is always a bad idea. Define exactly what you want it to bypass and do, else you end up with an ability that turns off the sun. (Making me miss due to high AC reduces my damage, right? )
Special: There's nothing to stop you missing due to cover, concealment, or simply failing to beat your foe's AC.
Paragon: Perfection bonus is not an existing thing. Which is not bad, necessarily, except you go on to say it can stack with itself, so there's no reason to give it a named bonus type. Just remove it.
Perfect Aim: I suggest clearing up exactly how this interacts with total concealment/invisibility.
Snap Out Of It!: First, this should probably involve a check rather than being automatic. Second, breaking any illusion by yelling lets you do stuff like say, remove someone's invisibility or displacement. Third, telepathies still isn't a word and also isn't something you'd need to snap out of in the first place.
Snap Shooter: This is terrifying. I suggest making a very specific list of what can and cannot provoke an AoO, else you will end up with shenanigans.
Sudden Movement: The immediate action movement needs a limitation for the same reason as Counterattack.
Terrifying Presence: If the penalty is that broad, scaling, and applied in so large an area, it needs to allow a save or something.
Unbound Feat: This will only end badly. I can't immediately think of something horrible, but I'm sure there will be something to make it a thing of great regret.
Spoiler: Wall of TextCan't use, bad, neat but not gamebreaking, useless, useless, useless, useless, not great, useless, useless, useless, useless, Strictly Worse Than snap shooter, four uselesses, bad, useless, useless, SWT Killing Blow, okayish if you have good REF, ditto, useless, SWT Full Attacker, decent, useless, useless, all right, useless, almost SWT counterattack but nice to have both, bad, useless, okay, useless, it's epic leadership what did you expect, awful, useless, okay, not bad, fairly neat, almost always SWT sudden movement but funny to have both, three uselesses, would have been neat if I could take it at first level, neat, bad, bad, okay, nice if you've going unarmed, probably not going to see play, useless, decent, three uselesses, six SWT paragons with a useless in the middle, nine uselesses, SWT great reach, eight uselesses, doesn't actually work properly, useless, useless, all right if you're going that route, useless, SWT Magic Resistance, useless, SWT full attacker, useless, neat if you're going unarmed, useless, doesn't actually do anything different from the normal version, useless, cool, useless, meh, it's legendary commander what did you expect, bad, barely ever going to be useful, useless if you can't hit a DC 60 survival, decent, really good if you're using sneak attacks, decent, useless times nine, bad, SWT mortal wounds, not bad, useless, you get this from Master at Arms, three more useless ones, isn't that a monk class feature?, six more that I can't use, neat, can't use any of the next three, awful, SWT wallcrash, nice, SWT you have no power over me, three I can't use, one decent, two that are useless, decent, SWT always strikes first, decent, useless, useless, useless, this is an exact copy of another feat, neat if you're TWFing, SWT perfect aim, and the rest are useless.
Not seeing it.
You have no power over me: No. Not only is this too broad, but this kind of ability should not exist.
Overall, these criticisms seem to come from underestimating what the veteran's meant to be able to do. Though I'm surprised that you didn't get angry that a second-level veteran with a scythe using combat coup and always strike first can get the jump on an epic fighter and decapitate him without too much of a hassle. Yes, it really is meant to be that good.
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2015-07-30, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
What I'm criticizing is areas where the Veteran substantially surpasses what is considered good or powerful for tier 1 classes. Gaining broad immunities considered top notch and imperative ten levels early, having the ability to dominate people through immunities for day long lengths via skill check at level 1, or infinite interrupts on the level of abrupt jaunt and wings of cover. These aren't tier 1. These are insane, and makes their equivalent spells look like crap, because they are MORE powerful, and accessible at the earliest levels compared to level ten and beyond.
"This good" isn't Tier 1. It is dysfunctional, and shouldn't be allowed in any sane game.Last edited by AmberVael; 2015-07-30 at 03:24 PM.
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2015-07-30, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
At the same time, Fly makes Craft Masterwork Flying Machine look horrendously bad. Irresistible Phantasmal Killer makes all of your heroic killing blow claptrap look like pigeon crap. Summon Monster N can totally take on your loyal companion, and the wizard can have more than one up at once. Rope Trick is a second level spell that you simply cannot emulate; the closest you can do is to convince your DM to let you planeswalk into a pocket dimension. You simply do not possess an analog to pretty much any divination spells beyond Identify, pretty much any illusion or necromancy, or to Summon Monster N, Dispel Magic, Wind Wall, Dimensional Anchor, Dimension Door (try using Find Rift in combat), Black Tentacles, Wall of X, Polymorph/PAO, Telekinesis, Antimagic Field, Contingency, Control Water, Move Earth, Sequester, Spell Turning, Insanity, Prismatic Spray, Control Weather, Limited Wish, Prismatic Wall, Irresistible Dance, Gate, Time Stop or Wish. And that's okay, because those are things which the wizard does, and will always do, way, way better than the Veteran. And the Veteran does a few things way, way, way better in return. And that's also okay.
But let's go through. Battlesense, truenamers can do better, albeit later. But, truenamers. Next.
Bonus feats. Yeah, even getting three a level, and then more at higher levels, isn't really that great. I'd rather take the fewer feats and be able to use magic with them.
Counterattack can and will be shut down by any spell which doesn't need an attack roll.
Dominating Shout is like Quest, only you have to roll for it. Quest just happens. No save. No modified level check. Nowt, nothing, nada.
Full attacker allows you to be utterly ineffective twice in the same round, unless you git gud in some other manner. Psionic Lion's Charge is the obvious way to emulate it for your PsyWar ubercharger.
Headslam uses a full action that you could have spent not making your opponents lose some, but not all, of their spell slots/PP. It barely affects Truenamers at all (That's deliberate, though). I'm at a loss for a situation where Headslamming is the best use of your action. Maybe if your opponent is really low on spells. The trouble is that it only does anything important if your opponent actually survives the combat, or the combat drags out ages, or you're lucky enough to knock out a prepared caster's best spells purely by accident. Mhm. Yeah.
HKB is a way of making your killy guy even more killy, by actually letting him goddamn kill things, already!
Iron Mind is, yes, a better Personal Mind Blank. Stop having nice things, mundanes!
Loyal Companion is probably actually worse than the animal companion. Maybe give him some neat skills you don't have. Ehh.
Snap Shooter isn't that scary. If you can't cast defensively, what are you doing with your life?
Sudden Movement is a Disciple of the Word class feature. Disciple of the Word.
Terrifying Presence is not going to prevent your average tooled-up fighter from hitting you.
Unbound Feat is actually probably one of the worst things you can do with your trick.
You Have No Power Over Me is a way of making your killy gal even more killy, by actually letting her kill things, already!
Cleric has abilities that look out of place on Veteran has abilities that look out of place on Wizard has abilities that look out of place on Druid has abilities that look out of place on Psion has abilities that look out of place on Cleric. Not seeing the issue.
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2015-07-30, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
I am playing this class in a game. It is "stronk." My über crit shotgun to the XXXXXL ghouls face stopped the tpk because 3 of my party ran right on up to the thing with reach and then it crit them all, out right killing 2, and droping the high con one to like -12, so when I finished moping the floor with said boss, I swap out mortal Wounds for healing hands and fwabam, save the party because the cleric took a crit to the face and died.
Edit my character came to a world super infused with magic and he is from 2015 earth and said nope nope nope go away magic that's why he is a veteran.Last edited by nikkoli; 2015-07-30 at 11:37 PM.
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2015-07-31, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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- Sydney, Australia
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Mmmm. I like this class. I really like it.
But the way I see it, this class could end up being a bit too powerful at low levels.It's damn powerful, but I think it evens out since a) it's designed to be tier 1 anyway and b) the tricks and such have to be picking up the slack of all the magic items you're not using as well as the slack of all the magic buffing, healing and assistance you're not receiving from party casters.But at lower levels, when you've got less magic pieces of equipment, the veteran could be a little too strong. Maybe tacking on some level pre-requisques on the some of the more powerful tricks might be a good idea? Andin a low-magic campaign, it'd be downright broken. But why would anyone play this in a low-magic campaign when its entire purpose is to be a giant middle finger to a high magic setting?
EDIT: Actually no, scratch that, I think it's alright.Last edited by JohnTheSavage; 2015-07-31 at 01:35 AM.
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2015-07-31, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Fast Healing (Ex):
A veteran of at least 5th level gains Fast Healing equal to (1/2 level) -2.
or
Fast Healing (Ex):
A veteran of at least 6th level gains Fast Healing 1, which increases by 1 for every 2 additional levels.
--
Otherwise looks like a class that should be designed around http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/...lade-maneuvers , like the tome of battle crusader kind of.
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2015-07-31, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Hanuman, the Veteran already gets fast healing at lvl 6 via overcome wounds.
And martial manuvers make you loose all of your class features unless that has been removed since last time I read it.Last edited by nikkoli; 2015-07-31 at 06:53 AM.
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2015-07-31, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
o.o
Yes it was a suggestion to replace overcome wounds by removing the table and calling the class ability the effect that it is.
And no, that's kind of like saying that when you gain access to spells you lose all your class features. Maneuvers are like (Ex) spells for melee fighters separated by spell schools (disciplines).
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2015-07-31, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
However, the veteran's guile and wit, their devotion and their motivation, all stem from the meaningfulness of the vow: the veteran cannot deliberately and knowingly use magic, psionics, martial strikes or stances, supernatural abilities, or magic or psionic items. They cannot accept direct magical or psionic aid to their person (Fireballing their foes doesn't count), and must take any save against that aid that is given to them. They are encouraged to shun those who repeatedly give them unwanted aid of this nature, and preferably all magic, but this is not actually required and veterans don't bear any particular enmity towards spellcasters, psionicists or initiators.
A veteran who breaks this vow feels mentally shattered by the transgression, and loses the conviction that fuels veteran abilities (other than class skills, proficiency, and hit dice). These other abilities are regained at a rate of one level per day by adventuring normally as a glorified warrior ("Normally" is subjective, but no attempt should be made to avoid combat beyond the usual measure). For example, an eighth-level veteran who breaks the vow can use a single veteran trick after one day of adventuring, and seven after six days of adventuring. These days don't need to be consecutive. New veteran tricks can be selected in this way, though it would have been faster to relearn them normally!
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2015-07-31, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
There are at least two monsters in existence which have the Spells feature but it's not called that. The monk has the Spell Resistance ability but it's called Diamond Soul. The ranger has Bonus Feats called Combat Styles.
Otherwise looks like a class that should be designed around http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/...lade-maneuvers , like the tome of battle crusader kind of.
"You who came here seeking glory and fame,
Who wish to fly through the air on wings of fire,
You who seek to hold your blade up high,
And catch the sun in its morning glow,
Leave this place and ne'er return,
'Til you set aside that hope,
For there is glory in might and magic,
And there is none in the warrior's path,
He is not a warrior who knows not pain,
Who sets the sky ablaze with moment's thought,
Or touches the foe with his blade,
Just to destroy them with his might,
Was your sword broken a thousand times?
Or did you bury it in a man's skull?
Did you feel each living thing die?
Or did you wonder if you were next?
No, your sword sits with you yet,
And you but touch your foes,
Use that blade to extend the grasp,
Of the magic you claim is skill.
There is no glory in war,
Know that, and pass these gates,
And though many of you will die,
You will die the best you can."
- Inscription above the Hall of Heroes.
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2015-07-31, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Where does it say that and by what balance logic would that make sense?
True, but is the table just to make the class look less dead?
You should try playing tome of battle/path of war characters and see how fun a nonmagical tier3 frontliner can be.
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2015-07-31, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-08-01, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Righteous Desperation class feature.
"the veteran cannot deliberately and knowingly use magic, psionics, martial strikes or stances, supernatural abilities, or magic or psionic items"
"A veteran who breaks this vow feels mentally shattered by the transgression, and loses the conviction that fuels veteran abilities (other than class skills, proficiency, and hit dice). These other abilities are regained at a rate of one level per day by adventuring normally as a glorified warrior ("Normally" is subjective, but no attempt should be made to avoid combat beyond the usual measure)."
True, but is the table just to make the class look less dead?
You should try playing tome of battle/path of war characters and see how fun a nonmagical tier3 frontliner can be.
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2015-08-02, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Oh I see, the class itself functions like "Vow Against Mechanics".
See, when I think "veteran" I think someone who's been through war and has had to abandon all those notions of what's effective and what works when she went into it, using everything around her to her advantage, improvising and making use of things on the fly.
I also think of someone who's slightly crazy, probably debuffs with shaken, has some precision damage mechanic or deadly strike from stalker.
I mean the fluff could be that all mechanics sources proved too unreliable and could be used against her, which would fit into the paranoia kind of field (afraid to use mechanics, not just swears them off).
What you're going for is essentially kind of like a crusader but instead of maneuvers you're going with rogue tricks? So is this a tier4 class?
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2015-08-02, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Sure. A tier 4 class that can use a skill based Dominate Monster at level 3, has a class feature that gives them an equal level wizard companion, can immediately and automatically counter two full schools of spells as a swift action, gets at will abrupt jaunt, and an extra set of actions each round.
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2015-08-02, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
The fluff is less "I dislike these mechanics, so I therefore vow never to use them! Nyah!" and more "I did it the hard way, and I'm happy to keep doing it the hard way."
And no, the class isn't supposed to be tier 4. Combat Coup on its own immediately propels you into tier 4. Herbalist, master at arms, and dominating shout are the kind of things getting you into tier 3. Craft MW flying machine, find planar rift, brewmaster, loyal companion, not on my watch, and so forth are the kind of things making you tier 2, and the reselection mechanic makes you tier 1. The Mundane Trickster - the Veteran's roguish little sister - is being heralded by at least one of its critics as borderline tier zero.
Why would you give them a wizard? Loyal companions gain the righteous desperation class feature.Last edited by Jormengand; 2015-08-02 at 01:36 PM.
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2015-08-02, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
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2015-08-02, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2015-08-04, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
I like the concept, but even for a tier 1, it's too powerful. It basically shuts down every other class. It's not equal to a tier 1 caster, it surpasses it.
Abilities which work likeThere's no attack roll and no save. You just deal damage.
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2015-08-04, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Perhaps you would take that up with spells like Magic Missile, Fire Shield, Wall of Fire and Acid Fog? Or maybe you would turn your attention to all six Reversed Word of Nurturing utterances, Reversed Energy Negation, Reversed Greater Energy Negation, Reversed Essence of Lifespark (but deals negative level), Reversed Word of Bolstering (But ability damage) or Energy Vortex? These aren't trivial abilities, either: it's easy for a truenamer to shove metamagic on all their stuff without it costing anything, so you can have a reversed energy negation dealing about 40d6*1.5 damage.
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2015-08-04, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-08-04, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-08-05, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2015-08-24, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Martial artist grants you the effects of improved unarmed strikes and flurry, along with the scaling AC and unarmed strike damage of a mnk right? So you could then pick up superior unarmed strike and get an even better punching ability?
Last edited by nikkoli; 2015-08-24 at 10:15 AM.
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2015-08-24, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2015-08-26, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
Since this is meant to cover up the fighter like the others are meant to cover barbarian, monk, rogue, and the like should the veteran's veteran level count as effective fighter levels for prerequsits? Seeing how the other classes all get their parents class features ontop of theor tricks.
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2015-08-28, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-09-03, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Stand back, boy, and let me show you war!" (3.5 class, PEACH)
I feel like this swings too hard in the other direction. Sure, clerics and wizards can do anything...at level 15 or so. At level two, they get aced by big dumb fighters or large rocks or housecats.
The only thing you need to do is level gate the veteran tricks a little more appropriately. I should not be able to force save or die effects on every strike by level 3... that alone takes vets from tier 1 to tier -5.
On another note, how would this interact with something like Vow of Poverty from the BoED? Would it negate the veteran's vow? If it didn't, you'd have an absolute monster on your hands...