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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Didn't the Giant also say something about needing Skill Focus [Knowledge (Religion)] or something as well in order to have enough ranks to identify a vampire's dual-soul issue?
    Not exactly.

    The reasonings behind my stance:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    My intended implication was that even among the clerics, this was not common knowledge
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    Yeah, I meant outed as not actually being durkon. You think high priests would have more ranks then a random priest.



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    Also, everyone was dead. And I think the cloak gives him a couple levels of Cleric casting levels (like the shield of the sun or something in 3.5), as I think he casted a higher level spell right after putting it on.
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    Smite isn't a spell, it's the Destruction domain's ability. The scene does give the impression that Redcloak couldn't use it before, so my guess is that the Mantle grants the Bearer access to all of the Dark One's domains at once. But that's just speculation at the moment.


    Either way, it's sort of off-topic. The point is that Redcloak isn't a normal high priest.
    Last edited by ti'esar; 2015-07-19 at 10:44 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    the last comic shows that he identified himself as high priest of hel to gain admission. it also strongly implies that there are at least several dozens high priests, so fighting them all at once is out of the table. the "gain official recognition" theory is gaining wheight.
    I just wonder about what will happen later. maybe hel considers participating in this meeting to be important enough to lose her high priest at the end of it, and maybe the prophecy about "bringing death and destruction" refers to the fact that hel, whose domains are death and destruction, will be a recognized deity from now on. but it doesn't strike as the right resolution for the story arc. I mean, durkon is vamped, then he is returned to normal after doing something that widely affects the world, but has no consequence on the story? I don't believe it.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    He'd be outed..... as a vampire? I'm afraid the others already know that. Or if you mean outed as an evil spirit in the drivers seat, we have already been shown that that is rare nowledge, and is by no means available to "any decent cleric."
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And yet the vampire seems unconcerned with that possibility.



    I'll take that bet.
    I'm taking a wild guess, but he isn't worried because he doesn't expect Roy or the rest of the order to be listening. The fact that Belkar is listening is either not something he anticipated, or something he expects won't hurt because the rest of the party won't believe him. Or he expects to kill Belkar before he can tell Roy what he heard.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    the last comic shows that he identified himself as high priest of hel to gain admission. it also strongly implies that there are at least several dozens high priests, so fighting them all at once is out of the table. the "gain official recognition" theory is gaining wheight.
    I just wonder about what will happen later. maybe hel considers participating in this meeting to be important enough to lose her high priest at the end of it, and maybe the prophecy about "bringing death and destruction" refers to the fact that hel, whose domains are death and destruction, will be a recognized deity from now on. but it doesn't strike as the right resolution for the story arc. I mean, durkon is vamped, then he is returned to normal after doing something that widely affects the world, but has no consequence on the story? I don't believe it.
    Remember, Hel's description of her plans involves "bringing the world to ruin and driving that buffoon Thor to his knees". While the HPoH's initial move or excuse for getting into the Godsmoot may be to get some sort of official recognition for Hel's church, I think we have more than just narrative reasons to think that it's ultimately going to be quite a bit more destructive than that.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Are High Priest really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by kgato503 View Post
    You bring up a good point. It may be possible that at least some of the high priests are lower level. However, like Kantaki said, I think there must be some agreement in place to stop any big violence from breaking out. Otherwise, I don't think the HPoH would be so calm about going in.
    That is the winning argument against the violent route. HPoH could suddenly be dust in literally 2 seconds, if violence were a practical measure at a godsmoot.

    Furthermore, HPoH's chance of a simple attack would have been vastly improved if only he turned Veldrina first. If cannot accomplish that with a measly bodyguard and Roy around, then he doomed against the moot.

    As for the general question, my guess is everyone is in the double digits. The more important gods tend to have more followers and more followers who are powerful, so there is a correlation between the god and the potency of the high priest, but it does not have to be a lock step relationship. We expect the HPoO to be equal to or more powerful than everyone else, but we cannot be certain.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Didn't the Giant also say something about needing Skill Focus [Knowledge (Religion)] or something as well in order to have enough ranks to identify a vampire's dual-soul issue?
    If I were DMing it, I would call it a DC 30 knowledge check -- something that a hero might accomplish but normal folk would consider impossible.

    By the numbers a very clever and very "lucky" 4th priest with Skill Focus might happen to know the answer.

    Even double digit priests would probably not know this stuff off the top of their head. If they decided the issue was important, they could sit in a library for a month and Take 20. But why would they ever do that? Being high enough level to get the right answer, they have options if their lover is turned to a vampire or similar.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Attacking other high priests at a godsmoot might break a few of those holy agreements between the gods. If Hel manages to take out all the priests but angers the gods themselves enough to get them to intervene directly the exercise would be pointless. Rules lawyering seems more likely than killing and turning, no matter how well Durkon might be able to execute the mission.

    I think so because even the doorman seems to have no problem with a vampire high priest of Hel who's bodyguards think he serves Thor. He may not be expecting whatever Durkon is going to say at the meeting, but he seems to have no reason to think any evil person is going to be a direct physical threat to anyone (who matters, Belkar jumping off another airship wouldn't count) during the moot.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2015-07-22 at 06:23 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    I got a little confused on the last post. I though it meant that the doorman wouldn't care if Belkar entered by jumping off an airship when the poster actually meant that the doorman wouldn't care if Belkar got knocked off the ship by Durkula.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    To clarify further: he wouldn't care a lot (I think) if anything happened to a lowly bodyguard like Belkar or anyone else who's not really part of the moot. But that was kind of beside the point, the point was more that he would care if something happened to any of the high priests, and his current attitude towards Durkon seems to indicate he's not expecting Durkon to "happen" to anyone. This in turn most likely means that Durkon starting physical combat would not be much of a problem, whether it'd be because the high priests would work together and could handle him easily or because the gods themselves vouch for the behavior of their representatives or through any other means. Since Durkon gets his information directly from Hel who seems rather up to date on the runnings of this moot he probably knows whatever the doorman knows about the subject, so he's not here for a physical fight, rather to deliver a message or hand out an ultimatum or something.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    What is a high priest anyway? Is it equivalent to the Pope or just a regular bishop. Is it the highest priest of that deity or just in one temple or nation?

    Literally it just means a rank above regular priest.

    You might say that its been implied that they're the highest priest of a god, but we don't know if the northern gods are functionally just the Dwarven pantheon or if they're worshipped in multiple nations.
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    What is a high priest anyway? Is it equivalent to the Pope or just a regular bishop. Is it the highest priest of that deity or just in one temple or nation?

    Literally it just means a rank above regular priest.

    You might say that its been implied that they're the highest priest of a god, but we don't know if the northern gods are functionally just the Dwarven pantheon or if they're worshipped in multiple nations.
    We do know that the Northern gods are worshipped in multiple nations. They have jurisdiction over the entirety of the Northern lands, so any non-goblinoid cleric from that area can be expected to worship them. We see some examples, such as the cleric of Freya early in the second book.

    Also, I think it's been pretty clearly established that there is only one High Priest of any given god or group of gods, and that there is no higher rank in the clerical hierarchy - we never hear about "a" high priest of any given god, but about "the" High Priest. I don't know that it's ever been explicitly stated that nobody ranks higher than the high priest, but it would be strange if there was a higher rank and we didn't know about it - Redcloak, for instance, would surely have been in touch with his superior in such a case.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    What is a high priest anyway? Is it equivalent to the Pope or just a regular bishop. Is it the highest priest of that deity or just in one temple or nation?
    What Emanick says. There seems to be a single high priest per deity, even if several countries or species prey to the same ones. So it's closest to a pope, if there were several of those living and working in their own temple complexes, all recognizing each other as high priests of gods in their own pantheon. And then of course if there were several sets of those groups of popes for different religions, which still recognize eachothers gods as existing and generally as good.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    What is a high priest anyway? Is it equivalent to the Pope or just a regular bishop. Is it the highest priest of that deity or just in one temple or nation?

    Literally it just means a rank above regular priest.

    You might say that its been implied that they're the highest priest of a god, but we don't know if the northern gods are functionally just the Dwarven pantheon or if they're worshipped in multiple nations.
    Essentially yes, it is equivalent to the Pope.

    It doesn't mean, however, that the person has the most levels. It is certainly possible that the high priest gets so involved in church administration that some clerics outside of management have more levels as they're still leveling.

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    Default Re: Are High Priests really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusion View Post
    Essentially yes, it is equivalent to the Pope.

    It doesn't mean, however, that the person has the most levels. It is certainly possible that the high priest gets so involved in church administration that some clerics outside of management have more levels as they're still leveling.
    It's also possible that the high priest of a given deity isn't chosen based on level in the first place. Maybe some of them are chosen based on piety or administrative ability or something else other than caster level. For some deities, being their high priest might even be an inherited position. It's not an clerical organization as such, but look at the Sapphire Guard. We were explicitly told that Miko was the highest level Paladin in the SG, but she wasn't its commander.

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    biggrin Re: Are High Priest really high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I guess it'd depend on what they're smoking.
    haha :) it is what I think at first! the dance starts at 4.20

    also, I've this speculation on Durkula's plan:
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    I remember a book TSR-about-drow-elfs. It is a series of six books where Lolth is temporarily disappeared, A cleric of V-something open a gate that bring his god in the place where he's gone by trickery.

    I was speculating something like that. I've not idea what Hel can do if spawned in the middle of clerics.

    And the clerics ? I guess they are likely are addressing the issue of the Gates. call by surprise across the globe, now that only one gate remains...

    Or eventually something totally anti-climatic-take-fun-of-the-religions, like, they are playing rock-paper-scissor and the vampire sense wins everything. (as the topic recall: they are not the only high)

    Last edited by Rinazina; 2015-07-29 at 07:06 PM.

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