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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Feral bears a striking resemblance to Savage from Dark Sun. Is that a coincidence?

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Looking back at the Adept, I've always been a bit off-put by the number of Charges they get through True Devotion. It just... feels excessive to me. I generally dislike having large new pools to manage, however.

    So my personal replacement would be:

    True Devotion (Su): At 3rd level, an Adept may use one of their Devotion feats each encounter without spending a daily use. This counts towards the number of times per encounter they may use True Believer without spending a daily use, and cannot be used if they have spent their daily use of the True Believer feat.
    Eh, it's a total of five uses. And one use should last for a full combat. Might add on the /encounter use as an additional benefit, but think I'll keep it as is for now. I should be getting a playtest of the PrC soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Dire Form (Skills) just feels hella weird, since you need to be at least 8th level to get it and it entirely lacks scaling unless you bring cheese into the equation. I'm not sure what I'd want to see replace it...
    Yea, it's a little weird. Couldn't think of a better ability to go for at the time. Still working on a better option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    As a side note, I'd love to see a mini-PrC focused around the Focused Dreamer, Personality Purge, On Fire, or Chaotic Mind/Closed Mind/Force of Will/Hostile Mind/Psionic Hole* feats. Or one based off of Blessings of the Godless or Fell Conspiracy.
    Focused Dreamer is interesting, and I might try something with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by brentcourtney View Post
    Feral bears a striking resemblance to Savage from Dark Sun. Is that a coincidence?
    Considering I don't have any Dark Sun books and know very little about the setting itself I'd say pure coincidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    Eh, it's a total of five uses. And one use should last for a full combat. Might add on the /encounter use as an additional benefit, but think I'll keep it as is for now. I should be getting a playtest of the PrC soon.
    Well, there's a reason I said that that's what I'd do at my table, not "you hav to do this lol". Besides the fact that that would have been an atrocious post/argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I finally broke down and got a homebrewer's signature.

    This signature is currently so far out of date that it will loop around to being in date... never.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    EdroGrimshell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    And the Experimental part of these PrCs is a success!

    I've made these largely for the purpose of thinking up new mechanics or expanding on existing ones to make unique concepts and apply them to a bigger project. And I recently came up with the final piece of the puzzle while discussing with a friend about a race he developed, a living construct with a soul that "burns" its soul (taking Cha Burn) to heal itself (as if via natural healing).

    And the other Components?

    1) The Stigmatist
    2) The Unyielding Soul
    3) The Surger
    4) The above mechanic

    This gives me the mechanics to revamp an old idea of mine, the Runescar. A type of Blood Mage. And I even have an idea how to expand it to three different classes. And here's how the pieces fit together.

    The Stigmatist, obviously, gives the ability to sacrifice HP for the day for constant bonuses, a balancing act of HP to bonuses gained. It also allows adaptability akin to a meldshaper with their abilities. The Runescar, a more instinctive version of blood mage, would emphasize this mechanic and give permanent bonuses like the Persistent Blessings of the Stigmatist in the form of Scars that act as focal points of blood magic.

    The Unyielding Soul grants a method of temporary recovery, empowerment, and a basic offense. This would be in the form of an individual mechanic for each class that drains HP from opponents (or allies) that they can spend to enhance their magical effects (as can their normal HP, though that can't be recovered in the same way that the Stigmatist can't with their blessings) or keep as an HP Buffer. Feats would grant bonuses like the Unyielding Soul does. The Blood Knight would focus on this aspect, having ways to enhance their ability to drain blood from their opponents to reinforce themselves and enhance their combat oriented blood magic. The Gish option.

    The Surger mixes with the Soul Burn mechanic above. Burning their Soul (taking Cha Burn) enhances the power inherent in their blood, without burning their soul they have minimal blood magic, requiring higher expenditures and reducing potency, but leaves them relatively unscathed if done right. But they can always draw in a little extra power from their magic by taking some Cha Burn. The basic Blood Mage would be based on this, getting the ability to Stoke the Flames to enhance their blood magic further, much like a Surge Count.

    I am working on the mechanic integration for the classes now as well as the Blood Magic Spells and will be posting it once it is complete. I figured I'd just give the preview for my current project now that this one has produced such a successful run!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    I haven't posted here yet, but I've been following it pretty closely the past few months, even have it on my browser's toolbar. I really like your synopsis on your new project, which is what prompted me to post.

    I recently revamped the Thief of Life PrC from Faiths of Eberron which has a similar theme of stealing energies from opponents. Though it's essentia based rather than hp based, it seems to have a fair bit in common with your new project, at least based on your description. I've been tinkering with thoughts on how to expand this and other things to do with the mechanic, and your post got my creative juices flowing again. I'm very interested to see where you go with this idea. Be sure to keep us updated.

    Also, if you're interested in taking a look, there's a link to the revamped Thief of Life in my sig.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Here are just my personal thoughts on things I'd change if I were writing these. I'll only be including elements I'd change rather than the entire text.

    Spoiler: Acolyte
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    Acolyte

    Wpn/Arm Prof: An acolyte gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.
    I'd probably grant proficiency with the deity's chosen weapon, if you don't already possess it. Not critical, but it seems appropriately thematic.

    Devoted Believer (Su): Starting at 2nd level, the acolyte may use True Believer once per encounter without expending its daily use. Once the daily use is expended, they lose the use of this ability until they regain their daily use of True Believer. At 3rd level they gain the ability to use True Believe twice per encounter without expeding its daily use.
    This just seems a little clunky to me. I'd just outright change it from 1/day to 1/encounter to 2/encounter.
    Also, check the spelling on "expeding"

    Spoiler: Bane-Blooded
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    Bane-Blooded
    Tainted Health (Ex): Whenever the Bane-Blooded heals hit points with the Poison Healer feat, they heal a number of hit points equal to their Con score - 10 instead of their Con modifier. Whenever the Bane-Blooded uses Autohypnosis in place of a Fortitude save to tolerate poison, they gain the benefit of Poison Healer if they succeed on the skill check.
    For ease of math, it might be better to go with twice Con bonus. For Blighted Health at 3rd, triple it. Sure, you lose out on the 1 hp from having an odd numbered con score, but... Just my thoughts.

    Additionally, each time the Bane-Blooded is exposed to a poison, they gain a +1 circumstance bonus against that poison. This bonus stacks up to +10. This includes Alcohol of any kind.
    How long does this last? Permanently? For the encounter? The day? It needs a duration mentioned.

    Bleakblood (Ex): Whenever the Bane-Blooded heals hit points with the Poison Healer feat, they gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the save DC of the poison they saved against - 10 multiplied by their class level. Ex: A 2nd level Bane-Blooded that saves against a dose of Drow Knockout Poison gains 6 temporary hit points. At 3rd level, this same Bane-Blooded saves against the same poison instead gains 9 temporary hit points. Temporary hit points gained from this ability last for one minute.
    That requires a lot of fiddly bits that depend on DM given knowledge that the player may not have, such as just what the specific poison the player resisted actually is. I'd just grant temp hp based on the hp already gained. E.g., When poison healing, gain temp hp equal to the real hp you gained from the feat. At 3rd level, gain twice that amount.

    Spoiler: Capacitor
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    Capacitor

    I'd personally swap the lost level to 1st to match the standard setup for manifester progression and discourage 1 level dips. Psychic Reserve is a potent enough ability to stand on its own. I can't see a reason not to dop

    Psychic Body (Su):
    I'd change the name, just to prevent confusion with Psionic Body, which this character is required to have. Not a change, but this seems more incarnumish than psionic to me. I might rework it so the feel of the two systems doesn't blend. Not really a problem with the ability as much as just personal preferences.

    Spoiler: Cenobite
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    Cenobite

    I have to compare this to The Meditant, which is the official class based on these feats.

    Charged Meditation (Su): Starting at first level, the cenobite may meditate for one hour to gain a Psychic Charge. They may have a number of Psychic Charges equal to twice their class level at any one time. Psychic Charges persist until spent. At any time, the cenobite may spend a Psychic Charge as a Standard Action to activate an awakened energy center. An energy center activated in this way only lasts for one minute per class level, rather than one hour. The cenobite may still activate their energy center normally without impeding their ability to activate it with their Psychic Charges.

    As these are quick surges, activating an energy center in this way does not increase the cost of activating the energy centers normally.
    I don't see the benefit of this over just adding more uses per day. Sure, reusing centers with normal uses is more costly, but with more uses/day, you're mitigating that without the need for a new mechanic. Not having it does mean you'd need a replacement for Focused Meditation/Discharge.

    Additionally, the cenobite does not provoke attacks of opportunity when activating an energy center.
    Activating a center already does not provoke AoOs.

    Not to be harsh, but I don't see that this class accomplishes anything that Meditant doesn't already do and do better. Perhaps the Mantra Feats version would be a better direction to go with this.

    Spoiler: Dreamer
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    Dreamer

    I assume the "PP" field on the table references Dream Points, but that isn't reflected in the text. If it's the number you can spend, either the table or the text is wrong.

    Manifesting:
    Progression ought to be shown on the table.

    Spoiler: Dreamtouched Adept
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    Dreamtouched Adept

    No comments. It looks good to me.

    Spoiler: Echoed Mind
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    Echoed Mind

    Focused Mind (Ex): When the echoed mind may gain psionic focus as a Swift Action, Move Action, or Standard Action and may attempt to gain multiple psionic foci in a single round.
    This isn't very clear. As written, it isn't even a complete sentence. I assume the word "When" should be stricken from the ability, in which case it would make sense.

    Spoiler: Feral
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    Feral

    Interesting but not terribly useful past 1st level. It has a mutator level, so I'd at least give it one mutation per level to keep things interesting. As it is +1 NA twice over feels more like 2 dead levels. Scent is amusing, but LLV is ridiculously common.

    Also, there's an error here:
    The feral may substitude their class level (to a maximum of half their class level)

    Spoiler: Infusionist
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    Infusionist

    Manifesting:
    As above, I'd bump it to 2/3 instead of 1/3 to discourage dipping. Extended Infusion is good enough to stand on its own.

    Extended Infusion (Ex): ... When the infusionist uses the Psycarnum Infusion feat, he may spend one or more power points (up to 5 or half the infusionist's manifester level, whichever is higher) to increase the duration by an equal number of rounds.
    A hard limit of half ML seems more appropriate to me.

    Expanded Infusion (Ex): ... Alternatively, the infusionist may forgo infusing one of their incarnum receptacles to increase the essentia capacity of their incarnum receptacles benefiting from Psycarnum Infusion equal to the number of receptacles they chose not to infuse for the duration of the Psycarnum Infusion.
    Unclear. Try wording such as "Alternatively, the infusionist may treat the infused recaptacle as if it had 1 additional essentia above its maximum. Doing so reduces the number of additional receptacles he can infuse." Not perfect, but it can be improved upon.

    Invested Infusion (Ex): At 3rd level, when the infusionist uses the Psycarnum Infusion feat, they may invest a point of essentia into this class feature to retain their psionic focus. Each point of essentia invested in this class feature grants the infusionist a +2 bonus on Concentration checks to gain psionic focus. This class feature has an essentia capacity equal to the infusionist's normal essentia capacity.

    After eight hours of rest, the essentia in this class feature is uninvested. Essentia invested in this class feature cannot be uninvested by any other means.

    This class feature cannot benefit from Psycarnum Infusion.
    Hmm... This definitely needs some work. I'm not sure what to suggest for it, but it just feels off somehow. I'll think on it some more and come back to it.

    Spoiler: Scholar
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    Scholar

    Knowledge Correlation (Ex): For every 6 ranks the scholar possesses in Knowledge skills, they gain a +1 Synergy Bonus to all Knowledge checks and may use all Knowledge skills untrained.
    Needs clarification. Try, "A scholar may use all Knowledge skills untrained. There is no maximum DC to what he can know.
    Additionally, for every 6 skill ranks the scholar possesses in a Knowledge skill, he gains a +1 Synergy Bonus to all other Knowledge skills."

    Sage Lore (Ex): At each class level, the scholar gains additional 6 skill points that can only been be spent on Knowledge skills.
    Needs a word added and one changed.

    Scholastic Study (Ex): A scholar of at least 2nd level is adept at using their knowledge to great effect, when making a skill check, a researcher may make a Knowledge check relevant to the skill usage (Nature when making a Survival Check or Arcana when using Decipher Script to decode a spellbook) to gain a bonus to the check. This bonus is the same the bonus provided by the Knowledge Devotion feat (ex: rolling a 15 or lower grants a +1 insight bonus, rolling a 16-20 grants a +2 insight bonus, etc).
    "Researcher"? Try rewording more simply. "A scholar may use his Knowledge Devotion feat when he makes a skill check, making the relevant Knowledge check and gaining the insight bonus on the skill check. This ability may be able to to be used on Knowledge skills, but the DM determines which, if any, other Knowledge skill applies to the check."

    Spoiler: Soulfused
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    Soulfused

    Wpn/Arm Prof: Soulfused are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor, but not with shields.
    I'm curious why this grants weapon/armor proficiency. Nothing else in the class has anything to do directly with weapons or armor, and anyone who can shape soulmelds is automatically proficient with the specific object the shaped meld creates.

    Incarnum Aura: A soulfused of 3rd level has an aura of incarnum around them. As a standard action, the soulfused may compress this aura into a single soulmeld of the soulfused's choice. This shaped soulmeld lasts for one minute before unshaping, at which time it becomes an aura once more.

    On shaping this soulmeld, the soulfused may bind it to a chakra it has open, if any.

    While the Aura is active, all of the soulfused's incarnum receptacles count as if they had one extra point of essentia invested that does not count towards their Essentia Capacity.
    This is absolutely beautiful, but I feel it's too potent as written. I'd suggest changing from standard action to full-round action, changing the duration to 1 minute + 1 minute per invested essentia, lowering the essentia reduces the duration/unshapes the meld, and outright removing the +1 effective essentia in all other receptacles.

    Spoiler: Soul Seeker
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    Soul Seeker

    First of all, you should note in the text that it gains essentia, not just in the table.

    Very nice overall, but I feel it's a bit weak. Perhaps you should add a constant deathwatch or status effect into it as well.
    At 3rd, I'd even be alright with spending a full-round action to detect non-living creatures for that round, limited to blindsense only. While useless for combat personally, you can point out otherwise invisible undead/constructs to your allies or have other good utility with it. Perhaps you can fluff it not as seeing the unliving creature so much as seeing the "ripples" its presence and movement cause in the living creatures around it.

    Spoiler: Spirit Healer
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    Spirit Healer

    I quite like this overall, but I'm concerned with the size of the healing pool. A "normal" incarnum character at level 20 that takes this class will have 4 essentia in the feat, a Con mod of +5, and 3 class levels for 60 points of healing available per day.
    (I know it's a divine spell and thus, by RAW, can't be in an eternal wand, but roll with it for the moment.) An eternal wand of lesser vigor can get 33hp healing each day for 820gp. A Healing Belt has 6d8 daily healing for 750gp. With only the one feat and three class levels, your basic healing ability can be matched by spending less than 2,000gp. Sure, those items can't remove conditions, but with such a paltry pool, you won't really be removing conditions either.


    Now, looking into it a little deeper...
    Adding Azure Touch gets you up to 140, and Improved Essentia Capacity then gets you up to 200, but it requires investing ten of your essentia into it for the entire day in addition to three feats.

    Let's assume Azurin Incarnate 17/Spirit Healer 3 and only Healing Soul, Azure Touch, and Improved Essentia Capacity for incarnum related feats as compared to an Azurin Incarnate 20 with no incarnum feats and either Mage’s Spectacles or Elder Spirit shaped with a few consumables.
    26 Essentia (1 race, 20 class, 3 PrC, 2 feats) vs 27 Essentia (1 race, 26 class).
    13 usable Essentia with 10 locked into feats vs 27 usable Essentia with 0 locked into feats.
    8 soulmelds available vs 8 soulmelds available + 1 soft locked into one of two specific melds.
    200 hp/day healing vs 550 hp healing lesser vigor wand (750gp) or avg 275 clw wand (750gp).
    Ability to do a mini heal effect (proactively even!) vs no such ability, though able to use heal via a scroll.

    I do really like this class. Something about it just appeals to me very strongly, but it's just plain weaker than taking Incarnate 20 and buying a 1st level wand for basic healing. It only wins out when removing status effects or ability damage, though a lesser restoration wand is available for that.
    An Incarnate 2/Cleric 3/Sapphire Hierarch 10 is only 15th level and not designed as a primary healer, but it blows this out of the water in everything that this can reasonably do. Granted, we're comparing a tier 3 to a tier 0 here, but I still feel that the point stands.
    This class is very interesting, but taking it only makes you weaker in the long run.

    The only place I can see it having any significance at all is in an E6 game. The prereqs let you enter early enough to complete it, it doesn't hit your essentia progression, and it gives you access to some restorative abilities that are otherwise usually out of reach in an E6 campaign. It does, however, cost you feet/hands chakra binds, but those are picked back up easily enough with the plethora of bonus feats available in E6. The only thing you'd miss out on over a straight Incarnate 6 is the rapid meldshaping 1/day.
    Now, all that said, with Healing Soul, Azure Touch, and Improved Essentia Capacity and (conservatively) 18 Con, you're looking at 72 points of healing per day, but that consumes all of your class granted essentia, leaving you only the bonus essentia from race/feats to work with!

    Note: I just realized that I forgot about being able to pool the Healing Soul healing in with the rest, but that adds at most 16 to 20 points of healing to the pool, because you do not get access to the Soul chakra (at least not pre-epic).

    Spoiler: Stigmatist
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    Stigmatist

    Penance (Ex): In a minute long ritual, the stigmatist takes 3 points of damage and gains a Blessing (see below). For every blessing the stigmatist has, the damage taken from this ritual increases by 3. Damage inflicted by this ability bypasses temporary hit points and cannot be healed except by natural healing. The next time the stigmatist heals lethal damage through natural healing, they heal all the damage taken from Penance.
    Is there a limit on the number of blessings he can gain other than his max hit points?

    Blessings (Su):
    I'll admit that I haven't looked too closely at this list yet, but...

    Healing Hands: This blessing grants the stigmatist a pool of points equal to the hit points lost from the Penance ability. These points can be spent to heal an equal number of hit points of a touched target (including themselves). The stigmatist can choose to divide this healing among multiple recipients, and they don't have to use it all at once. Using this blessing is a standard action. Taking this blessing a second time allows the stigmatist to spend five points from this pool to heal one point of ability damage or remove one of the following conditions from a touched target: dazed, fatigued, or sickened. Taking this blessing a third time allows the stigmatist to spend ten points from this pool to remove one of the following conditions from a touched target: exhausted, nauseated, poisoned, or stunned. Taking this blessing a fourth time allows the stigmatist to spend fifteen points from this pool to heal one point of ability drain or remove one of the following conditions from a touched target: blinded, deafened, or diseased. Taking this blessing a fifth time allows the stigmatist to spend twenty points from this pool to remove a negative level or bring a creature that has died within the last round back to life at -9 hit points and stabilized.
    The poor Spirit Healer can't even revivify someone while this guy can.

    Spoiler: Surger
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    Surger

    Manifesting:
    Again, I'd do 2/3 rather than 1/3 for reasons I've stated previously.

    Surging Psyche (Ex):
    Very interesting... I like the mechanic quite a bit, though I do feel like it needs a little polishing.

    Channeled Insurgence (Su):
    I can see where you are going with this, but it's not terribly clear. If I understand correctly it's temporarily sacrifice a power known to manifest that power for free if surge = pp cost.

    Oversurge (Su): As a free action, when discharging a Channeled power, a 3rd level or higher surger may lower their surge count to increase the effective manifester level and number of power points spent on the power by the amount their Surge Count was lowered.

    Using an Oversurge is a mentally draining endeavor. After using an Oversurge, the surger becomes exhausted and cannot increase their surge count until they rest for an hour.
    Okay, now this, I don't understand. What's the point of using it when you can already use Overchannel on the power and using this ability locks you out of all the other class features granted by this class? I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but I just can't see the benefit.

    Spoiler: Undying
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    Undying

    Knock on Death's Door (Ex):
    Does taking standard actions still cause you to damage yourself as per the Diehard feat?

    Walk with the Reaper (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, the Undying does not fall unconscious from nonlethal damage unless they have a number of points equal to half their maximum hit point total + the Undying's current hit point total.
    So, at 100 max hp, they need a minimum of 50 nonlethal damage to fall unconscious. It's clear enough, but I think it would really benefit from an example.

    Open the Black Gates (Ex): At 4th level, the Undying gains a Threshold Pool with points equal to 10 x their class level. Whenever the Undying would take damage, they may spend any number of points from their Threshold Pool to reduce damage they would take by an equal amount, taking nonlethal damage equal to half the damage prevented.

    A Undying's Threshold Pool refreshes at a rate of 1 point per minute.
    This is an interesting ability! I would rewrite the class to grant this at 1st level and make it the core mechanic for the class. Up to this point, I didn't see anything here other than Diehard+.

    Spoiler: Unyielding Soul
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    Unyielding Soul

    Vigor (Ex): The unyielding soul may spend five minutes to regain the temporary hit points granted by the Azure Toughness feat.

    Additionally, the unyielding soul gains twice as many temporary hit points from the Azure Toughness feat.
    5 minutes seems a little long. I'd likely make it 1 minute. It's still too long to be useful in heated combat but quick enough to be useful in a more prolonged engagement. 5 minutes is just long enough that it makes this a strictly downtime ability.

    I'd proably also change the name to Azure Vigor or (blue word) Vigor to differentiate it from other abilities/powers of the same name, especially with the frequency of incarnum multiclassing into psionics.

    Resilience (Ex): At each level, the unyielding soul gains one of Cerulean Fortitude, Cerulean Reflexes, or Cerulean Will. If the unyielding soul already possesses these feats and cannot select another, they may select any other feat they qualify for instead.

    Additionally, while the unyielding soul possesses temporary hit points from Azure Toughness, they are treated as having a number of points of essentia invested in Cerulean Fortitude, Cerulean Reflexes, and Cerulean Will equal to half the essentia invested in the Azure Toughness feat, rounded down. This stacks on top of any essentia invested into these feats.
    I feel that this needs the noted change for thematic reasons, though it's not strictly necessary. I wouldn't make the change here unless you made the change to Vigor above.

    Vitality (Ex): While an unyielding soul of at least 2nd level possesses temporary hit points from Azure Toughness, they gain a bonus on Str, Dex, and Con checks and with all skill checks made with the following skills; Balance, Climb, Concentration, Jump, Ride, Swim, and Tumble equal to the essentia they have invested in the Azure Toughness feat.
    See change notes above.

    Additionally, the unyielding soul may choose to, as a move action, gain fast healing 1 as long as they possess temporary hit points. At the end of a round in which they benefited from this fast healing, they lose one temporary hit point and take one point of nonlethal damage*. The fast healing granted by this ability does not heal nonlethal damage, instead only healing lethal damage. The unyielding soul may end this effect as a move action.
    This might actually give you a use for Healing Soul! Use this ability to restore yourself to full, using Vigor to constantly top up, then pop once with Healing Soul to drop all of the nonlethal damage.
    On another note, if you (somewhat absurdly) interpret Lifebond Vestments as being able to heal yourself, which I see many, many people do, then this whole ability becomes pretty much useless...

    Hardened (Ex): While an unyielding soul of at least 3rd level possesses temporary hit points from Azure Toughness, they gain a bonus to their natural armor equal to the essentia they have invested in the Azure Toughness feat.

    Additionally, as long as they possess temporary hit pointsfrom Azure Toughness, the unyielding soul gains Damage Reduction equal to half the essentia they have invested in the Azure Toughness feat, rounded down. This damage reduction is not overcome by anything (DR/-).
    Same suggested change as above.
    DR2/- is pretty much useless, even if you take this as early as possible and grab it at level 6. I would suggest allowing the DR to stack with DR of the same type to at least make it useful with a Barbarian/Totem Rager if nothing else.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    EdroGrimshell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    I will start by saying this: Very few of these classes actually require levels in a PC Class, many can be taken by characters with purely levels in NPC classes. Which is actually what they are meant for. They add a little flavor to PC class users and add a LOT of flavor and utility to NPC class users (mainly NPCs obviously).

    Some of these in combination can have an incredible effect however.
    Spoiler: Examples
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    Expert 3/Feral 5/Infusionist 3/Echoed Mind 3 with the Azure Form feat from the Evolutionist can have a set of alterable mutations that they can pick on the fly and have last a while, plus they can spam out all five foci at once to increase the capacity of Azure Form feat up to a maximum (assuming Improved Essentia Capacity is taken) of 15. Add in Unyielding Soul which gets Temp HP that doesn't go away for 24 hours every time you use Psycarnum Infusion on Azure Toughness (as well as getting it's capacity up to 15 at full spam mode that can last up to a minute at a time). That's a pretty sizable bonus when you get everything just right.

    Even just take Dreamer and Dreamtouched Adept on an Expert or Human Paragon. The Dream Trance + those Immersions from the DtA make it into a pseudo-monk and bypasses the entire need for the Dream Scion feat and its Knowledge Skill requirement. That's a pretty good sized bonus.

    Another is just Unyielding Soul + Undying. Temp HP doesn't count towards gaining the Undying's bonuses, meaning you can bolster even higher. Add in Bane-Blooded for a supply of easy to gain Temp HP to trigger Unyielding Soul and you've got an effective tank as a commoner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Acolyte
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    Acolyte

    I'd probably grant proficiency with the deity's chosen weapon, if you don't already possess it. Not critical, but it seems appropriately thematic.

    This just seems a little clunky to me. I'd just outright change it from 1/day to 1/encounter to 2/encounter.
    Also, check the spelling on "expeding"
    I'd agree to the proficiency, however, the "clunky" thing is simply put as "as long as you have the daily use of True Believer, you gain one additional use per encounter." The daily use is there for emergencies, but it reduces your ability to use it for the rest of the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Bane-Blooded
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    Bane-Blooded
    For ease of math, it might be better to go with twice Con bonus. For Blighted Health at 3rd, triple it. Sure, you lose out on the 1 hp from having an odd numbered con score, but... Just my thoughts.

    How long does this last? Permanently? For the encounter? The day? It needs a duration mentioned.

    That requires a lot of fiddly bits that depend on DM given knowledge that the player may not have, such as just what the specific poison the player resisted actually is. I'd just grant temp hp based on the hp already gained. E.g., When poison healing, gain temp hp equal to the real hp you gained from the feat. At 3rd level, gain twice that amount.
    Originally it was twice Con bonus, but I felt the Score - 10 was a better fit. I do see merit for it and will actually probably change it now that I've had time to consider the classes.

    The bonus to each individual poison is permanent. Let's you build up an immunity (with a chance for a "bad reaction" to the poison).

    Yea, I think I'll take your advice here as well. That was more for like if you carried your own ingested poison (or booze), you'd know what the DC is most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Capacitor
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    Capacitor

    I'd personally swap the lost level to 1st to match the standard setup for manifester progression and discourage 1 level dips. Psychic Reserve is a potent enough ability to stand on its own. I can't see a reason not to dop

    I'd change the name, just to prevent confusion with Psionic Body, which this character is required to have. Not a change, but this seems more incarnumish than psionic to me. I might rework it so the feel of the two systems doesn't blend. Not really a problem with the ability as much as just personal preferences.
    Alright then, I'll think of another name for the ability and swap the Manifester Progression.

    Actually this is based on the Cognizance crystal, which already seems like a somewhat Incarnum-ish thing. Only thing is that they came out before incarnum. I might do a minor rework of this class to make it a little different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Cenobite
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    Cenobite

    I have to compare this to The Meditant, which is the official class based on these feats.

    I don't see the benefit of this over just adding more uses per day. Sure, reusing centers with normal uses is more costly, but with more uses/day, you're mitigating that without the need for a new mechanic. Not having it does mean you'd need a replacement for Focused Meditation/Discharge.

    Activating a center already does not provoke AoOs.

    Not to be harsh, but I don't see that this class accomplishes anything that Meditant doesn't already do and do better. Perhaps the Mantra Feats version would be a better direction to go with this.
    True, however this can be taken prior to Meditant or as a replacement for a minor power boost. It's not spectacular nor is it really potent, but it offers something.

    Honestly though, I didn't try very hard in making this one, it was a fun little thing I did to fill the time while I worked on some other classes in my head. So it's not my best work and I will probably end up revamping it entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Dreamer
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    Dreamer

    I assume the "PP" field on the table references Dream Points, but that isn't reflected in the text. If it's the number you can spend, either the table or the text is wrong.

    Progression ought to be shown on the table.
    The PP field is just that, power points. If you aren't a manifester and only have a feat or race providing power points, the class provides some for you to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Dreamtouched Adept
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    Dreamtouched Adept

    No comments. It looks good to me.
    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Echoed Mind
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    Echoed Mind

    This isn't very clear. As written, it isn't even a complete sentence. I assume the word "When" should be stricken from the ability, in which case it would make sense.
    Yea, I'll fix that. I'm also thinking of making this class actually have spent psionic foci "echo" as an ability, making their effects last an additional round. Not 100% on that, but thought I'd get an opinion on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Feral
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    Feral

    Interesting but not terribly useful past 1st level. It has a mutator level, so I'd at least give it one mutation per level to keep things interesting. As it is +1 NA twice over feels more like 2 dead levels. Scent is amusing, but LLV is ridiculously common.

    Also, there's an error here:
    Again, not my best work. Was mainly for a very niche character when I made it. I'll probably revamp it to make it a little more useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Infusionist
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    Infusionist

    As above, I'd bump it to 2/3 instead of 1/3 to discourage dipping. Extended Infusion is good enough to stand on its own.

    A hard limit of half ML seems more appropriate to me.

    Unclear. Try wording such as "Alternatively, the infusionist may treat the infused recaptacle as if it had 1 additional essentia above its maximum. Doing so reduces the number of additional receptacles he can infuse." Not perfect, but it can be improved upon.

    Hmm... This definitely needs some work. I'm not sure what to suggest for it, but it just feels off somehow. I'll think on it some more and come back to it.
    Right.

    Originally was, but this can be taken by Non-Manifesters giving them a ML of just 2 from the PrC alone. You just need to have the ability to gain psionic focus and an incarnum feat. So I'm leaving this particular ability as is. Especially given the above example with this being one of the more powerful classes you can take.

    Yea, I'll clear up the wording a little more.

    I actually have a 5 level version of this class with some other abilities, I forgot to add one into this version in place of that final ability, I'll get around to that soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Scholar
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    Scholar

    Needs clarification. Try, "A scholar may use all Knowledge skills untrained. There is no maximum DC to what he can know.
    Additionally, for every 6 skill ranks the scholar possesses in a Knowledge skill, he gains a +1 Synergy Bonus to all other Knowledge skills."

    Needs a word added and one changed.

    "Researcher"? Try rewording more simply. "A scholar may use his Knowledge Devotion feat when he makes a skill check, making the relevant Knowledge check and gaining the insight bonus on the skill check. This ability may be able to to be used on Knowledge skills, but the DM determines which, if any, other Knowledge skill applies to the check."
    I'll reword it to be a bit clearer. On all fronts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Soulfused
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    Soulfused

    I'm curious why this grants weapon/armor proficiency. Nothing else in the class has anything to do directly with weapons or armor, and anyone who can shape soulmelds is automatically proficient with the specific object the shaped meld creates.

    This is absolutely beautiful, but I feel it's too potent as written. I'd suggest changing from standard action to full-round action, changing the duration to 1 minute + 1 minute per invested essentia, lowering the essentia reduces the duration/unshapes the meld, and outright removing the +1 effective essentia in all other receptacles.
    This particular class is modeled after welknair's NPC PrCs, many of which grant proficiencies even if they don't need to.

    On the aura, how about increasing the essentia capacity by 1 rather than giving an effective investment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Soul Seeker
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    Soul Seeker

    First of all, you should note in the text that it gains essentia, not just in the table.

    Very nice overall, but I feel it's a bit weak. Perhaps you should add a constant deathwatch or status effect into it as well.
    At 3rd, I'd even be alright with spending a full-round action to detect non-living creatures for that round, limited to blindsense only. While useless for combat personally, you can point out otherwise invisible undead/constructs to your allies or have other good utility with it. Perhaps you can fluff it not as seeing the unliving creature so much as seeing the "ripples" its presence and movement cause in the living creatures around it.
    I like that idea. Status/Deathwatch are useful abilities.

    Might even just give it Open Least Chakra (Crown) at later levels to give them the ability to sense unliving creatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Spirit Healer
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    Spirit Healer

    I quite like this overall, but I'm concerned with the size of the healing pool. A "normal" incarnum character at level 20 that takes this class will have 4 essentia in the feat, a Con mod of +5, and 3 class levels for 60 points of healing available per day.
    (I know it's a divine spell and thus, by RAW, can't be in an eternal wand, but roll with it for the moment.) An eternal wand of lesser vigor can get 33hp healing each day for 820gp. A Healing Belt has 6d8 daily healing for 750gp. With only the one feat and three class levels, your basic healing ability can be matched by spending less than 2,000gp. Sure, those items can't remove conditions, but with such a paltry pool, you won't really be removing conditions either.


    Now, looking into it a little deeper...
    Adding Azure Touch gets you up to 140, and Improved Essentia Capacity then gets you up to 200, but it requires investing ten of your essentia into it for the entire day in addition to three feats.

    Let's assume Azurin Incarnate 17/Spirit Healer 3 and only Healing Soul, Azure Touch, and Improved Essentia Capacity for incarnum related feats as compared to an Azurin Incarnate 20 with no incarnum feats and either Mage’s Spectacles or Elder Spirit shaped with a few consumables.
    26 Essentia (1 race, 20 class, 3 PrC, 2 feats) vs 27 Essentia (1 race, 26 class).
    13 usable Essentia with 10 locked into feats vs 27 usable Essentia with 0 locked into feats.
    8 soulmelds available vs 8 soulmelds available + 1 soft locked into one of two specific melds.
    200 hp/day healing vs 550 hp healing lesser vigor wand (750gp) or avg 275 clw wand (750gp).
    Ability to do a mini heal effect (proactively even!) vs no such ability, though able to use heal via a scroll.

    I do really like this class. Something about it just appeals to me very strongly, but it's just plain weaker than taking Incarnate 20 and buying a 1st level wand for basic healing. It only wins out when removing status effects or ability damage, though a lesser restoration wand is available for that.
    An Incarnate 2/Cleric 3/Sapphire Hierarch 10 is only 15th level and not designed as a primary healer, but it blows this out of the water in everything that this can reasonably do. Granted, we're comparing a tier 3 to a tier 0 here, but I still feel that the point stands.
    This class is very interesting, but taking it only makes you weaker in the long run.

    The only place I can see it having any significance at all is in an E6 game. The prereqs let you enter early enough to complete it, it doesn't hit your essentia progression, and it gives you access to some restorative abilities that are otherwise usually out of reach in an E6 campaign. It does, however, cost you feet/hands chakra binds, but those are picked back up easily enough with the plethora of bonus feats available in E6. The only thing you'd miss out on over a straight Incarnate 6 is the rapid meldshaping 1/day.
    Now, all that said, with Healing Soul, Azure Touch, and Improved Essentia Capacity and (conservatively) 18 Con, you're looking at 72 points of healing per day, but that consumes all of your class granted essentia, leaving you only the bonus essentia from race/feats to work with!

    Note: I just realized that I forgot about being able to pool the Healing Soul healing in with the rest, but that adds at most 16 to 20 points of healing to the pool, because you do not get access to the Soul chakra (at least not pre-epic).
    A little weak, but not meant to be strong. Once more, as stated at the top of this post, you don't have to be a meldshaper to take this. An azurin commoner can take this if they meet the prerequisites. There's nothing here that requires you to be a meldshaper.

    As for the stuff on it, that's actually meant to be a take on the Touch of Vitality of the Dragon Shaman or Lay on Hands of the Paladin. Both of which are less effective. I'll probably still modify this somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Stigmatist
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    Stigmatist

    Is there a limit on the number of blessings he can gain other than his max hit points?

    I'll admit that I haven't looked too closely at this list yet, but...

    The poor Spirit Healer can't even revivify someone while this guy can.
    Nope, other than the one that limits the number of times he can take a particular mutation (which I'm thinking of removing or modifying TBH). The HP is the only real limiting factor of the blessing ability. How much you're willing to sacrifice to get some extra power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Surger
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    Surger

    Again, I'd do 2/3 rather than 1/3 for reasons I've stated previously.

    Very interesting... I like the mechanic quite a bit, though I do feel like it needs a little polishing.

    I can see where you are going with this, but it's not terribly clear. If I understand correctly it's temporarily sacrifice a power known to manifest that power for free if surge = pp cost.

    Okay, now this, I don't understand. What's the point of using it when you can already use Overchannel on the power and using this ability locks you out of all the other class features granted by this class? I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but I just can't see the benefit.
    Indeed it does need a bit of polish. Since this is one of the classes I'm basing the blood mage on, I'm going over it again.

    It's the ability to charge up a power, you lose the ability to manifest it with your PP, but you instead charge it up, every swift action adding your Surge Count to the effective PP spent on the power when you decide to discharge it.

    Um, you can suddenly spike the ML of a power by 10 and not have to spend the additional power points for that ML increase. With Practiced Manifester, you can effectively get an ML 30 power manifested at level 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Undying
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    Undying

    Does taking standard actions still cause you to damage yourself as per the Diehard feat?

    So, at 100 max hp, they need a minimum of 50 nonlethal damage to fall unconscious. It's clear enough, but I think it would really benefit from an example.

    This is an interesting ability! I would rewrite the class to grant this at 1st level and make it the core mechanic for the class. Up to this point, I didn't see anything here other than Diehard+.
    I didn't consider that but I'll say yes it does until an ability negates it.

    I will add an example when I do the rest of the update.

    Indeed. Although it did take me a while to come up with this ability. And this class is essentially Diehard+. Just like a lot of these classes are "Feat+" classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Spoiler: Unyielding Soul
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    Unyielding Soul

    5 minutes seems a little long. I'd likely make it 1 minute. It's still too long to be useful in heated combat but quick enough to be useful in a more prolonged engagement. 5 minutes is just long enough that it makes this a strictly downtime ability.

    I'd proably also change the name to Azure Vigor or (blue word) Vigor to differentiate it from other abilities/powers of the same name, especially with the frequency of incarnum multiclassing into psionics.

    I feel that this needs the noted change for thematic reasons, though it's not strictly necessary. I wouldn't make the change here unless you made the change to Vigor above.

    See change notes above.

    This might actually give you a use for Healing Soul! Use this ability to restore yourself to full, using Vigor to constantly top up, then pop once with Healing Soul to drop all of the nonlethal damage.
    On another note, if you (somewhat absurdly) interpret Lifebond Vestments as being able to heal yourself, which I see many, many people do, then this whole ability becomes pretty much useless...

    Same suggested change as above.
    DR2/- is pretty much useless, even if you take this as early as possible and grab it at level 6. I would suggest allowing the DR to stack with DR of the same type to at least make it useful with a Barbarian/Totem Rager if nothing else.
    5 minutes is the same as for changing maneuvers readied for initiator classes. And there is a way to bypass that with Psycarnum Infusion, which I'm using for a character I'm playing currently. If it proves an issue I'll reduce it though.

    Actually this class is meant to work with any source of Temporary Hit Points, not just the ones from Azure Toughness.

    It's meant to be stackable, I should have noted that in the ability.
    Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2016-03-08 at 11:04 AM.
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    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
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    XD

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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    @Rizban
    Regarding the Cenobite: Note that it stacks with the Meditant, is 5 levels shorter, and you don't have to deal with an arithmetic progression on the costs (which you did just brush off, I note). That last one is a much bigger advantage than you think it is, especially if your group doesn't engage in the five minute work day.

    It's also a great way to meet the prereqs for the meditant; [Something Psionic] 3/Cenobite 3/Meditant 10/[Something Psionic] 4. That way, you get Focused Meditation, which is really useful, and stays useful even when you have a lot of Psychic Meditation uses. Heck, those 6-10 Psychic Charges are good for, say, getting your ML in PP on short notice.

    That might be a useful way of looking at it - the class essentially adds up to 10xML extra PP to your pool, if you have time to prep (I might start making jokes about the Elven Cenobite Master Race, since they have 4 extra hours to regain Psychic Charges every night.)

    Regarding the Dreamer: Judging from the other PrCs here... I'd say that those are regular PPs, added to your pool.

    Regarding the Stigmatist: I already asked about the limit; the answer is no. You do have a cap on each individual ability... and that damned arithmetic progression (the ugliest of mathematical progressions).
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Soulfused
    What about having the aura ability grant 2 specially named Essentia? These special essentia can be invested as normal, but if the receptacle is at its maximum capacity, you can still invest one into it to a max of cap + 1. When you coalesce the aura into a soulmeld, the temporary essentia disappears as long as the temporary soulmeld is in place. Essentially, the aura takes the form of either bonus essentia or a soulmeld, not both, forcing you to make a tactical choice between the two benefits. This keeps the neat effects but puts them at a reasonable level, especially if it's meant for an NPC.

    Spirit Healer
    I understand that it's not meant to be a powerhouse, but it always bothers me when taking a PrC is less effective than just staying in the most obvious entry base class, especially when the base class is not a Tier 2+. I can see it having a place in an E6 game, but as written, I just don't see it as being particularly useful for anything other than just the flavor. Perhaps I'm being overly hard on it, but I do just really like it.

    Surger
    Thinking about this class more, it reminds me of the way DDO Monk works. The Monk gains Ki Points whenever he attacks that he can then spend like PP to do certain special maneuvers. Not intending anything by that other than to say my brain made that connection.

    I understand that Oversurge is useful and powerful. The issue I had with it is this: "After using an Oversurge, the surger becomes exhausted and cannot increase their surge count until they rest for an hour." Using the ability outright removes your ability to use all surger class features above the point you desurge(?) yourself to using oversurge. It's the kind of capstone that's only going to get used in the most desperate of situations (or to showboat) because of how personally harmful it is to your character.

    Additional concern: What happens to a surger who maintains a surge count out of combat but is immune to fatigue/exhaustion, such as a warforged?

    Undying
    Yes, I realize that all of these classes are essentially FeatX+, but they all seem to have some sort of new abilities or interesting applications that are more than just basic numerical increases to what the feat does. Yes, Undying does grant a few miscellaneous buffs when you take damage, but it just feels uninteresting until you reach 4th level. I'm just suggesting that you make the interesting 4th-level ability more central to the class to give it more curb appeal. To me, there's nothing less exciting than, "This class feature adds +1 to your Dodge feat's bonus."

    Unyielding Soul
    Changing maneuvers is given a 5 minute duration because it's meant to only be done outside of battle. An unyielding soul should be unyielding. He should be able to regain his boost mid battle, even if it's not instantly. Duck and hide, rest a minute to regain your breath, then charge right back into the fray. At least, that's how I'd envision it working.

    I note that it gains 2 essentia at each level. That's officially the fastest essentia progression in the game, and I'd likely take this class just for that ability, if nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    @Rizban
    Regarding the Cenobite: Note that it stacks with the Meditant, is 5 levels shorter, and you don't have to deal with an arithmetic progression on the costs (which you did just brush off, I note). That last one is a much bigger advantage than you think it is, especially if your group doesn't engage in the five minute work day.
    That is all true, but arithmetic progression or not, I think the 1 hour duration covers a fair bit of time. I know that my games typically have most of the action condensed into a single hour, though I fairly strictly enforce a rule against a 5 minute adventuring day, with arbitrary random encounters while the party tries to sleep midday if necessary. The extra costs for activation are expensive, but I just feel like that makes you think more tactically instead of going nova every encounter.

    Even with the arithmetic progression, it's not a problem that can't simply be solved with more uses per day. Since it costs an hour to gain a psychic charge, getting 1 minute of an energy center's use seems a little depressing, even if it doesn't increase the normal costs to activate the center. I'd probably just allow the class to spend charges to activate centers as if they were normal uses per day. Yes, it increases the costs, but it gets you an hour's worth of use out of the ability. Perhaps the other way is preferable to you, but this method seems better to me. Just a thought: Perhaps allowing you to spend one psychic charge as two uses per day for normal activation would solve this entirely without the need for new mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    It's also a great way to meet the prereqs for the meditant; [Something Psionic] 3/Cenobite 3/Meditant 10/[Something Psionic] 4. That way, you get Focused Meditation, which is really useful, and stays useful even when you have a lot of Psychic Meditation uses. Heck, those 6-10 Psychic Charges are good for, say, getting your ML in PP on short notice.
    Oh, I agree, this is a good lead in to Meditant. I noticed that right away, but without a baseline for comparison, it's difficult to draw conclusions. So, I compared theoretical builds using this in place of Meditant to make drawing conclusions easier. Of course X+Y and X+Z aren't going to stand up to X+Y+Z.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    That might be a useful way of looking at it - the class essentially adds up to 10xML extra PP to your pool, if you have time to prep (I might start making jokes about the Elven Cenobite Master Race, since they have 4 extra hours to regain Psychic Charges every night.)
    The biggest issue I have with the class is that it requires 1 hour of meditation per Psychic Charge, each of which may be used only once. As written, this requires meditation, which therefore cannot take place while doing anything else, such as a multiclass character preparing spells. Yes, it is very nice, but it's a resource you're going to have to spend several days to build up to max, assuming your campaigns don't have a lot of excess down time. To really use this class's abilities, you have to burn a lot of psychic charges. Do I really want to waste an hour's meditation to free action regain psionic focus? Maybe if I really need that extra metapsionic feat but probably not. Do I want to spend two hours of meditation to get 10 minutes of use from my energy center or three hours for one? Maybe, but it's not likely. The only class feature I'd really want to spend the charges on without them feeling wasted is granted at 1st level. I'd take this to 2nd for the bonus feat, BAB, and +1 manifesting, maybe 3rd if there's no other PrC that interests me and is available, but I can't see my character ever having more than 3 or 4 charges at a time or wanting the higher level abilities. Psion3/Cenobite3/Meditant10 would work, but I doubt I'd finish Cenobite over something else, maybe Sanctified Mind.

    Mentioning elves made me start thinking about races that don't sleep at all. I'm not sure that I'd allow meditating for psychic charges and resting to regain PP to happen simultaneously for races that don't sleep, but if allowed, that would grant you a significant number of uses per day, up to 9 if you also meditate while the caster prepares spells.
    As to elves specifically, the 4 hours trance is technically in the fluff rather than crunch section of the race entry, and the various classes specifically need 8 hours of rest, even from races that don't sleep at all. I'm disinclined to believe that elves need less than 8 hours of rest to regain spells/PP despite spending 4 of those hours awake. As such, I'm also disinclined to grant the extra 4 hours of meditation for the purposes of gaining psychic charges on the same basis for denying it to sleepless races.

    Based on all of this, if I have to choose between taking either cenobite or meditant, I'd probably choose the meditant. I can see where this has its place, and it is interesting. Still, I'm going to stand by my original opinion.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2016-03-10 at 05:35 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Initial Modifications done.

    Spoiler: Acolyte
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    Changed Proficiencies to include Deity's favored weapon.

    Spoiler: Bane-Blooded
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    Clarified the Circumstance Bonus for poisons is permanent.

    Made Bleakblood not based on the DC of the poison.

    Spoiler: Capacitor
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    Moved Manifester level Increase.

    Can't think of a new name for the Psychic Body class feature. Not a big deal but I'm leaving it as is for now.

    Spoiler: Cenobite
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    Psychic Charges now last for 1 minute/manifester level at base with a minimum of 1 minute.

    Changed Focused Meditation and Focused Discharge.

    Spoiler: Echoed Mind
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    Fixed the sentence so it's actually a sentence.

    Spoiler: Feral
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    Fixed the error. Will revamp later

    Spoiler: Infusionist
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    Reworked the wording of Expanded Infusion.

    Replaced the Capstone. Same name, completely different ability.

    Spoiler: Scholar
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    Modified Knowledge Correlation.

    Fixed wording on Sage Lore.

    Reworded Scholastic Study.

    Spoiler: Soulfused
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    Changed the aura to grant Aura Points rather than a flat bonus to essentia in each.

    Spoiler: Soul Seeker
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    Added a Deathwatch and Status effect at 2nd and 3rd level respectively.

    Added the ability to detect nonliving creatures at 3rd level.

    Spoiler: Spirit Healer
    Show
    Removed that Azure Touch adds to Essentia and instead adds to class level. See spoiler for math as to why.

    Incarnum Chirurgion now allows for converting lethal damage to nonlethal damage at a reduced cost.

    Incarnum Chirurgeon is now more in line with the Healing Hands Blessing.

    Incarnum Chirurgeon doubles the number of uses of Healing Soul, though not the healing provided by each use.

    Incarnum Vitality also reduces the cost of removing Conditions with Incarnum Chirurgeon.

    Spoiler: Math
    Show
    Using Azure Touch as it originally was and assuming a Con of 20 resulted in the following:
    3 x 5 x (4 + 4) = 120

    With Improved Essentia Capacity it resulted in:
    3 x 5 x (5 + 5) = 150

    Now, swap the bonus from Azure Touch to Class Level instead and you get this:
    7 x 5 x 4 = 140

    With Improved Essentia Capacity it resulted in:
    8 x 5 x 5 = 200

    Conclusion: Adding Azure Touch to the Essentia was a stupid idea and weakened the class needlessly.

    Spoiler: Stigmatist
    Show
    Removed cap on taking specific blessings. Only the Blessings themselves give a limit to the number of times they can be taken.

    The Blessed Body blessing can now grant Immunity to an energy.

    Spoiler: Surger
    Show
    Oversurge is less punishing now, it does take you out of the fight for a bit still, but it doesn't hurt nearly as much now.

    Spoiler: Undying
    Show
    Added a clause to Walk with the Reaper that removes damage from using a standard action when disabled or dying.

    Will rework to have a little more to do with the Threshold Pool later.

    Spoiler: Unyielding Soul
    Show
    Changed the time needed for Vigor to 1.

    Added a clause to Hardened to let its DR stack with similar DR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Additional concern: What happens to a surger who maintains a surge count out of combat but is immune to fatigue/exhaustion, such as a warforged?
    Hm, will have to think on that, but I'm thinking I'd make it bypass immunity since it's really mental exhaustion more than physical exhaustion. That's my ruling on it for now anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Understandable - I really just like it because, like you've said, I look at these from the perspective of E6.

    Plus, the Psychic Charges have one advantage: you can store up charges over downtime, so you should start most adventures with it capped off.

    Spirit Healer: Some thoughts:
    • Have each level double your healing from Healing Soul as part of the class feature you get at that level. That brings you to a respectable 32-40 per charge at 20th level.
    • Heck, while we're at it - merge the pools from Incarnum Healing and Incarnum Healing, if you have it. I mean, if you're going whole hog on this healing thing...
    • Maybe crib from Action Healing, and let you spend uses of Healing Soul to buff your use of Incarnum Healing? Spending a use to, say, heal someone as a Swift action, or to heal someone at range.

    EDIT: This is what I get for sitting on a post instead of pushing it through.
    Last edited by Amechra; 2016-03-10 at 01:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I finally broke down and got a homebrewer's signature.

    This signature is currently so far out of date that it will loop around to being in date... never.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    I'm back and working on this project once more! I got hit by inspiration and decided to come back and make a few more of these, and I even have previews!

    Spoiler: Catalyst
    Show
    An alchemist that has utilized expensive potions to unlock their physical limits, taking on immense strain to accomplish incredible physical abilities. A very expensive class, it allows you to purchase permanent upgrades to your character with GP. While it allows for great benefit, it also has some pretty significant downsides.

    Spoiler: Feral (Redux)
    Show
    A redux of the original Feral (finally getting around to it) that offers a bit more to the PrC than some minor benefits. Incorporates a couple mutations, a better expressed Mutator level as it progresses, and a few, hopefully, unique abilities to get it going a bit better. Has a few totemic style abilities and a greater interaction with animals than the original does.

    Spoiler: Instructor
    Show
    One of two attempts to make an experimental Initiator class. This one is based on giving others temporary access to maneuvers and stances you know as well as training people to have some minor bonuses. At later levels, can grant the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats to others for maneuvers you know. This is essentially a poor man's Marshal.

    Spoiler: Militiaman
    Show
    The second of my attempts to make an experimental Initiator class. This one provides someone without a method of recovery, a method of recovery. It's pretty simplistic and provides very limited maneuver use by uncapping the feat limit on Martial Study and Martial Stance (which apparently doesn't actually have a limit...) as well as basic upgrades to combat ability in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    I'm back and working on this project once more! I got hit by inspiration and decided to come back and make a few more of these, and I even have previews!
    Oh, I get to comment on this thread. Nice. Phone posting, so I'll just comment on these spoilers.

    Spoiler: Catalyst
    Show
    An alchemist that has utilized expensive potions to unlock their physical limits, taking on immense strain to accomplish incredible physical abilities. A very expensive class, it allows you to purchase permanent upgrades to your character with GP. While it allows for great benefit, it also has some pretty significant downsides.
    You will almost certainly need a cap of some sort, due to power for GP being one of the hardest to balance. Or have the bonuses become an expensive loop for generalizing, like having to go through all the ability score boosts once for a simple +1 bonus to each, due to a loop of +2 to one score and -1 to another. The loop can be extended with Move Speed and several sorts of AC. Well, if you want to be simple about it. More esoteric stuff like boosting Charge distance gets weird, but conditional bonuses can get rather far with getting wonky.

    Spoiler: Instructor
    Show
    One of two attempts to make an experimental Initiator class. This one is based on giving others temporary access to maneuvers and stances you know as well as training people to have some minor bonuses. At later levels, can grant the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats to others for maneuvers you know. This is essentially a poor man's Marshal.
    >poor man's martial
    You say that, but between White Raven and Shadow Hand, I think it's an excellent side grade. After all, you can teach people to walk on air and teleport. And do silly action bomb setups.

    Spoiler: Militiaman
    Show
    The second of my attempts to make an experimental Initiator class. This one provides someone without a method of recovery, a method of recovery. It's pretty simplistic and provides very limited maneuver use by uncapping the feat limit on Martial Study and Martial Stance (which apparently doesn't actually have a limit...) as well as basic upgrades to combat ability in general.
    So, to be clear, it's giving a form mid-combat Maneuver recovery to whoever grabs the class? Say hello to extra Shadow Pounces and unbelievably hard to kill Fighters.

    Being serious, I don't have enough to work with beyond seeing that it gives maneuver recovery because the last part is so nebulous.

    A PRC with a name like "militiaman" brings to mind unskilled group combat. Is the stuff in it going to focus on that? Like, will the combat bonuses focus on stuff that relies on group fighting to trigger reliably?
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

    Homebrewer's sig

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    You will almost certainly need a cap of some sort, due to power for GP being one of the hardest to balance. Or have the bonuses become an expensive loop for generalizing, like having to go through all the ability score boosts once for a simple +1 bonus to each, due to a loop of +2 to one score and -1 to another. The loop can be extended with Move Speed and several sorts of AC. Well, if you want to be simple about it. More esoteric stuff like boosting Charge distance gets weird, but conditional bonuses can get rather far with getting wonky.
    Most of the purchases are one time things attached to the Reactions (the power the class uses), and the active effects of those can kill the user if they're overdone. They're powerful for sure, but that power is incredibly costly to use, and it costs just to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    >poor man's martial
    You say that, but between White Raven and Shadow Hand, I think it's an excellent side grade. After all, you can teach people to walk on air and teleport. And do silly action bomb setups.
    It really is a poor man's marshal, it trains people ahead of time, giving them "Instruction Points" that give them a bonus to AC, Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls, etc. And these can be spent to initiate some of the Instructor's maneuvers up to a certain point. The fact it's only five levels makes it give only a few maneuvers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    So, to be clear, it's giving a form mid-combat Maneuver recovery to whoever grabs the class? Say hello to extra Shadow Pounces and unbelievably hard to kill Fighters.

    Being serious, I don't have enough to work with beyond seeing that it gives maneuver recovery because the last part is so nebulous.
    It's a die based system, there are a few ways to increase it (attacking, turn end, fighting defensively, using combat feats, etc.), but it lets you recover maneuvers by lowering it based on the level of the maneuver.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    A PRC with a name like "militiaman" brings to mind unskilled group combat. Is the stuff in it going to focus on that? Like, will the combat bonuses focus on stuff that relies on group fighting to trigger reliably?
    I was actually kinda stuck on the name and went with Militiaman as a placeholder until I thought of something better, still kinda grew on me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Just added a new class to my listings! The Anima Priest, the first of a few PrCs that use other PrCs I have made on here as a base.

    EDIT: Anima Priest Moved to the Main Post.
    Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2017-11-05 at 08:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Three More!

    I am accepting suggestions on how to make the Reactions of the Catalyst PrC work better. If anyone has suggestions, I am all ears.

    EDIT: PrCs moved to main post.
    Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2017-11-05 at 08:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    I haven't analyzed the Anima Priest yet, but it looks pretty synergistic. I mean, let's be honest - Soul Growth is going to almost always be dropped on Azure Toughness, so that you can invest all of your Essentia into it. The benefits are just so darn good, especially since Ardent Conviction makes that "free" Essentia.

    ---

    The Instructor mentions the Militiaman when talking about bonus skills. Also, it should require that the individuals being trained have, at the very least, an Int score.

    I'm mixed on Training Points - on the one hand, they're cool, and they help bring someone up to snuff. On the other hand... the bonus is much better than +1 BAB (unless, of course, you're abusing Power Attack or are using the actually good Fighter feats). Realistically, I can't see the Instructor working well with other full-BAB party members - I can see Swordsages, Monks, and Rogues really benefiting, though.

    Other than that, though, I really like it.

    ---

    The Militiaman, on the other hand... seems pretty broken if combined with a full Initiator. Martial Clarity is a free-action Boost or Counter each round. Fighting Spirit is "I use a standard-action Strike next to a full attack" if you are Hasted (and you're pretty much one of the better targets for Haste, so...)

    Also, why a d10? I'm all for using physical props and such, but it's just a bit of obfuscation. Why not just say that they can have a maximum of 10 limit points?

    ---

    The Catalyst runs into issues with some basic Fortitude save optimization. Like, I've crunched the numbers, and it's pretty trivial to break this guy REALLY hard (a Paladin with Steadfast Determination gets +Cha to Fort saves and doesn't fail them on a 1, or ANYONE with Mind Over Body (the Diamond Mind save replacer, level 3)).

    Seriously, a basic trick is playing a Warblade 3/Catalyst 2/Warblade 2 with some kind of PP pool and access to Mind Over Body and Instant Clarity (3/day, you automatically recover your psionic focus after successfully using a Strike). You enter a fight psionically focused, and with Mind Over Body un-expended. You can pretty easily have a +23 to Concentration checks (+11 from levels, +5 from Con, +2 from Endurance, +3 from a magic item, +2 from Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind)).

    Use a DC 38 Compound. Counter the Fort save with Mind Over Body (making it a Concentration check), and then spend your Psionic Focus to "roll" a 15. Net result? You automatically pass the save. There's a lot you can do with that - I think the best course of action would be to give yourself +16 Con for a minute. Then smack someone with a Strike to recover your focus, and recover all your maneuvers.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I finally broke down and got a homebrewer's signature.

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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I haven't analyzed the Anima Priest yet, but it looks pretty synergistic. I mean, let's be honest - Soul Growth is going to almost always be dropped on Azure Toughness, so that you can invest all of your Essentia into it. The benefits are just so darn good, especially since Ardent Conviction makes that "free" Essentia.
    It's an experiment within an experiment, I need to see how it plays out in an actual game before I can deem it a success, but, it looks promising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The Instructor mentions the Militiaman when talking about bonus skills. Also, it should require that the individuals being trained have, at the very least, an Int score.

    I'm mixed on Training Points - on the one hand, they're cool, and they help bring someone up to snuff. On the other hand... the bonus is much better than +1 BAB (unless, of course, you're abusing Power Attack or are using the actually good Fighter feats). Realistically, I can't see the Instructor working well with other full-BAB party members - I can see Swordsages, Monks, and Rogues really benefiting, though.

    Other than that, though, I really like it.
    I'll edit in the Intelligence Score thing, but this is technically meant to work with Commoners and Experts in a community, but, it can be pretty effective in an adventuring party. Especially for multiclass characters such as the various forms of Gish out there. Also a great way for normal mages to defend themselves when they're out of spells at early levels.

    If you can think of ways to improve it I'm all ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The Militiaman, on the other hand... seems pretty broken if combined with a full Initiator. Martial Clarity is a free-action Boost or Counter each round. Fighting Spirit is "I use a standard-action Strike next to a full attack" if you are Hasted (and you're pretty much one of the better targets for Haste, so...)

    Also, why a d10? I'm all for using physical props and such, but it's just a bit of obfuscation. Why not just say that they can have a maximum of 10 limit points?
    Simply put, it's a carry over from when I was using a different mechanic. You can run it without the die or anything, it's just... I figured this would work just as well and get some props going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The Catalyst runs into issues with some basic Fortitude save optimization. Like, I've crunched the numbers, and it's pretty trivial to break this guy REALLY hard (a Paladin with Steadfast Determination gets +Cha to Fort saves and doesn't fail them on a 1, or ANYONE with Mind Over Body (the Diamond Mind save replacer, level 3)).

    Seriously, a basic trick is playing a Warblade 3/Catalyst 2/Warblade 2 with some kind of PP pool and access to Mind Over Body and Instant Clarity (3/day, you automatically recover your psionic focus after successfully using a Strike). You enter a fight psionically focused, and with Mind Over Body un-expended. You can pretty easily have a +23 to Concentration checks (+11 from levels, +5 from Con, +2 from Endurance, +3 from a magic item, +2 from Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind)).

    Use a DC 38 Compound. Counter the Fort save with Mind Over Body (making it a Concentration check), and then spend your Psionic Focus to "roll" a 15. Net result? You automatically pass the save. There's a lot you can do with that - I think the best course of action would be to give yourself +16 Con for a minute. Then smack someone with a Strike to recover your focus, and recover all your maneuvers.
    Yea, I figured something like that would happen... it's one of the more... unusual experiments here. I definitely need help refining the idea. This will help though, maybe a thing where it can't replace the Fortitude save with something else to help balance it out some. I don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    These are some interesting PRCs. But how early are you wanting them to be entered at?

    Unless I'm missing something, Human Bard1/Scholar3 is a valid build...

    With a starting Int of 18, they could have 7 ranks each in Arcana, Archit. and Eng., Dungoneering, Geography, History, Local, Nature, Nobility and Royalty, Religion, The Planes, Psionics, and Dreams*...

    This would give the character +14 synergy from Knowledge Correlation and + 5 Ability Mod for d20+26 on almost any Knowledge check as a level 4 character (d20+19 if the DM throws an obscure non-SRD check at you...)

    Granted, probably too weak in all other areas to be adventuring with that build, but still...

    *or whatever other non-SRD Knowledge Skill you want.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranged Ranger View Post
    These are some interesting PRCs. But how early are you wanting them to be entered at?

    Unless I'm missing something, Human Bard1/Scholar3 is a valid build...

    With a starting Int of 18, they could have 7 ranks each in Arcana, Archit. and Eng., Dungoneering, Geography, History, Local, Nature, Nobility and Royalty, Religion, The Planes, Psionics, and Dreams*...

    This would give the character +14 synergy from Knowledge Correlation and + 5 Ability Mod for d20+26 on almost any Knowledge check as a level 4 character (d20+19 if the DM throws an obscure non-SRD check at you...)

    Granted, probably too weak in all other areas to be adventuring with that build, but still...

    *or whatever other non-SRD Knowledge Skill you want.
    Knowledge Devotion requires 5 ranks in a Knowledge skill. So the earliest you can get it at is 2nd level (Cleric trading in the Knowledge Domain, Human Paragon 2). At that point, you're a Knowledge monkey that can wrangle up a +5/+6 to a bunch of rolls, and who has no other really relevant tricks. The Cleric version is passable, but only has 1st level spells at 5th level.

    I mean... yeah you can potentially get a +6 on your attack and damage rolls. Doesn't change the fact that your BAB is +2, or that you probably don't have massively exciting proficiencies.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I finally broke down and got a homebrewer's signature.

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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Revamped the Feral to be less boring and more in line with being an actual Mutator class.

    EDIT: I have four other classes in the works as of... oh, an hour and a half ago. Decided to give a brief description of each one here.

    Spoiler: Naturalist
    Show
    A three level mini-druid, this class relies on Ley Lines as a means of gaining the power to use pseudo-spells that mimic some of a druid's abilities. Healing animals, promoting plant growth, removing poison and corruption, etc. Nothing major. But, they also draw on ley lines as a means to power their supernatural abilities, allowing them to use this magic anywhere, even within an anti-magic field. Only areas of natural Dead Magic (rare in most settings) are they reduced in ability.

    Spoiler: Crypt-Born
    Show
    Mini-Necromancer in a can! More the Weaken type than the animate the dead type. These guys weaponize their own health, turning it into a resource for them to utilize while making it so they rely less and less on being alive, and becoming closer and closer to undeath. They do get the ability to animate the dead, but it is extremely limited.

    Spoiler: Dauntless
    Show
    Toughness Incarnate. This class is about having a lot of HP and a lot of Defense. It uses armor and shields as a buffer for their own health. Additionally, they learn to reinforce armor to make it more durable as well as how to make repairs so they aren't left without it if they need it.

    Spoiler: Cursed
    Show
    A low level fear inducer based on the Daunting Presence feat. Makes the feat faster to use, allows for making intimidate checks on top of the effect to make the target Frightened or Panicked instead, and some minor bonuses against shaken, frightened, and panicked targets. Looking for a better name.


    EDIT2: Revamped Feral moved to main post, replacing the old version.
    Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2017-11-08 at 11:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Two more classes up and running. The other two are taking a bit longer.

    Spoiler: Cursed
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    Cursed*

    Entry Requirements
    Base Attack Bonus:
    +2
    Skills: Intimidate 6 Ranks
    Feats: Daunting Presence

    Hit Die: d6

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Ominous Presence
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Horrific Presence
    3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Terrifying Presence
    Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Swim. 4 + Int Modifier Skill Points.

    Wpn/Arm Prof: The Cursed does not gain any new weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Ominous Presence (Ex): When using the Daunting Presence feat, the Cursed may make a Intimidate check as if to demoralize the target. If the target fails their Will save against Daunting Presence or the Intimidate check is successful, the target is affected by Daunting Presence as normal. If both are successful, the penalties from the Shaken condition are doubled on the target.

    Additionally, the Cursed adds their class level to the Save DC of Daunting Presence and to Intimidate checks made to demoralize a target.

    Horrific Presence (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the Cursed may use Daunting Presence as a Swift Action in addition to being able to use it as a Standard Action. If using Daunting Presence as a Standard Action, the Cursed may choose two targets instead of one. The Cursed may also use Daunting Presence as a Full-Round Action to use it on five targets.

    Additionally, the Cursed doubles the range of Daunting Presence (out to 60ft instead of 30ft).

    Terrifying Presence (Ex): At 3rd level, the Cursed gains a morale bonus on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls, Saving Throws, and Armor Class equal to the number of creatures suffering from a fear effect within 100ft of the Cursed.

    Additionally, non-mindless creatures that are immune to fear effects are affected by the Cursed's Daunting Presence as if they weren't immune, though they gain a +4 bonus on the saving throw to resist the effect.

    *Still looking for a better name.

    Spoiler: Dauntless
    Show
    Dauntless

    Entry Requirements
    Skills:
    Craft (Armorsmithing) 4 Ranks
    Feats: Toughness, Improved Toughness
    Proficiencies: Must be proficient with at least one type of armor.

    Hit Die: d10

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1st +0 +2 +0 +0 Armor Dampening, Tough
    2nd +1 +3 +0 +0 Ablative Armor
    3rd +2 +3 +1 +1 Hardened Armor
    Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Ride, Swim. 2 + Int Modifier Skill Points.

    Wpn/Arm Prof: The Dauntless gains proficiency with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor as well as with Shields (except tower shields).

    Armor Dampening (Ex): Starting at 1st level, the Dauntless converts an amount of lethal damage they take from an attack to nonlethal damage equal to their armor and shield bonus combined. The Dauntless reduces the Armor Check Penalty and increases the Maximum Dexterity Modifier of armor they are currently wearing by their class level.

    Additionally, the Dauntless gains a bonus on Craft (Armorsmithing) checks made to repair armor and shields equal to 1 + three times their class level (max +10 at 3rd level).

    Tough (Ex): At each level, the Dauntless gains Toughness as a bonus feat. The Dauntless gains additional hit points equal to their class level and +1 to Fortitude saves for each instance of Toughness they possess. Every two instances of Toughness increases the Dauntless's Natural Armor by 1.

    Ablative Armor (Ex): A Dauntless of at least 2nd level may, when successfully hit by an attack, transfer the damage from themselves to their armor or shield. Hardness does not apply against damage inflicted to the armor or shield in this way.

    Additionally, the Dauntless may, over the course of an hour, reinforce a suit of armor or shield, granting it temporary hit points equal to half its current hit point total. While the armor possesses temporary hit points from this ability, it's hardness is increased by 2.

    Hardened Armor (Ex): At 3rd level, any suit of armor the Dauntless wears provides them Damage Reduction equal to half the hardness of the armor. Damage reduction gained in this way is overcome by adamantine unless the armor has a hardness of 20 or greater. This damage reduction stacks with similar damage reduction the Dauntless may possess.

    Additionally, the Dauntless may, over the course of a week, strengthen a suit of armor or shield, permanently increasing its maximum hit point total by 5 and hardness by 1. Any suit of armor or shield may only benefit from this once per class level the Dauntless possesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

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  24. - Top - End - #84
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2013

    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    The Dauntless is an interesting idea, but I don't quite see the name as fitting because of how it focuses on the armorsmithing. I do like being able to use your armor as extra HP, works well with repair spells for a low-op gish, and benefits from armor having Sunder immunity(no, really, it's not allowed by the rules to Sunder worn armor). I'd cut the Improved Toughness feat requirement. Maybe swap for Iron Will, Great Fortitude or Skill Focus(Craft(Armorsmithing)).

    Personally, I find the best use of it is taking two levels of it on a Rogue for the singular sake of being able to get away with Heavy Armor as a Rogue. They have the skill points to burn on it, after all, and would love an extra 30 or so HP.

    As for the Cursed... There's so much more you can do with an Intimidate class! And no, I don't have a good idea for a name... The Cursed suffers from being absurdly specific. The Dauntless focuses on something literally every character wearing armor can benefit from by giving what's effectively more health the majority of the time, while the Cursed focuses on a specific feat that's a Fear effect without any way to deal with Mindless creatures with it. It uses a feat that's dead against mindless creatures and turns it into the utterly sole benefit of a three-level PRC that only improves the effect of said feat. And besides that, anything with a good Will save has a pretty significant chance to just ignore the ability entirely, while Shaken has pitiful penalties past CR 10 or so even if you double them.

    A -4 penalty isn't much when dealing with something that has +20 to attack rolls, after all. If you're on the AC to attack bonus rates where the entire die is useful, then your work nets you a 20% lower chance of being hit. From a "typical" 40%-60%, that's still a 20%-40% chance to be hit. It's only useful with more save-needing effects that can make use of the -4 penalty, because that penalty doesn't apply to anything using attack rolls, like a character with this PRC will virtually always be using. Because utterly lost caster levels are a huge no and few casters have Intimidate as a class skill.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

    Homebrewer's sig

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    EdroGrimshell's Avatar

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    Oct 2008

    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    The Dauntless is an interesting idea, but I don't quite see the name as fitting because of how it focuses on the armorsmithing. I do like being able to use your armor as extra HP, works well with repair spells for a low-op gish, and benefits from armor having Sunder immunity(no, really, it's not allowed by the rules to Sunder worn armor). I'd cut the Improved Toughness feat requirement. Maybe swap for Iron Will, Great Fortitude or Skill Focus(Craft(Armorsmithing)).

    Personally, I find the best use of it is taking two levels of it on a Rogue for the singular sake of being able to get away with Heavy Armor as a Rogue. They have the skill points to burn on it, after all, and would love an extra 30 or so HP.
    I am open to better names if you have suggestions. As for the prerequisites, I'll probably do what you said and swap it for something else, Great Fortitude or Endurance most likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    As for the Cursed... There's so much more you can do with an Intimidate class! And no, I don't have a good idea for a name... The Cursed suffers from being absurdly specific. The Dauntless focuses on something literally every character wearing armor can benefit from by giving what's effectively more health the majority of the time, while the Cursed focuses on a specific feat that's a Fear effect without any way to deal with Mindless creatures with it. It uses a feat that's dead against mindless creatures and turns it into the utterly sole benefit of a three-level PRC that only improves the effect of said feat. And besides that, anything with a good Will save has a pretty significant chance to just ignore the ability entirely, while Shaken has pitiful penalties past CR 10 or so even if you double them.

    A -4 penalty isn't much when dealing with something that has +20 to attack rolls, after all. If you're on the AC to attack bonus rates where the entire die is useful, then your work nets you a 20% lower chance of being hit. From a "typical" 40%-60%, that's still a 20%-40% chance to be hit. It's only useful with more save-needing effects that can make use of the -4 penalty, because that penalty doesn't apply to anything using attack rolls, like a character with this PRC will virtually always be using. Because utterly lost caster levels are a huge no and few casters have Intimidate as a class skill.
    I know it's not exactly the best, but these classes are mostly designed for use by NPCs or those with levels in NPC classes for playable characters. Not an excuse for it being bad, I'm 100% happy to rework it if it ends up better than it currently is. I am open to suggestions.

    You'll probably notice that most of the classes on here are very specific or focus on enhancing a single feat to be more useful. Such as the Soul Seeker or Bane-Blooded. Both of which only really enhance a single feat with a sub-par effect overall. I seriously want the Cursed to have a better set of abilities while still focusing on the Daunting Presence feat, because that's what these classes are generally about, taking a small option, and expanding on it in 3 to 5 levels (or giving entirely new options that synergize well with others of these PrCs as is the case with the Feral, Infusionist, and Undying).

    The only thing I could think of to make the Cursed better before I posted it was to give them an actual curse attached to the fear effect or to allow them to hit the target with the effect multiple times, but I thought those effects would be too powerful the way I would have gone about doing them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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  26. - Top - End - #86
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Knowledge Devotion requires 5 ranks in a Knowledge skill. -SNIP-
    The Prereq to the Prereq is what I missed... not sure how, since I knew about it at one point...
    Quote Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell View Post
    Revamped the Feral to be less boring and more in line with being an actual Mutator class.

    EDIT: I have four other classes in the works as of... oh, an hour and a half ago. Decided to give a brief description of each one here.

    Spoiler: Naturalist
    Show
    A three level mini-druid, this class relies on Ley Lines as a means of gaining the power to use pseudo-spells that mimic some of a druid's abilities. Healing animals, promoting plant growth, removing poison and corruption, etc. Nothing major. But, they also draw on ley lines as a means to power their supernatural abilities, allowing them to use this magic anywhere, even within an anti-magic field. Only areas of natural Dead Magic (rare in most settings) are they reduced in ability.

    Spoiler: Crypt-Born
    Show
    Mini-Necromancer in a can! More the Weaken type than the animate the dead type. These guys weaponize their own health, turning it into a resource for them to utilize while making it so they rely less and less on being alive, and becoming closer and closer to undeath. They do get the ability to animate the dead, but it is extremely limited.

    Spoiler: Dauntless
    Show
    Toughness Incarnate. This class is about having a lot of HP and a lot of Defense. It uses armor and shields as a buffer for their own health. Additionally, they learn to reinforce armor to make it more durable as well as how to make repairs so they aren't left without it if they need it.

    Spoiler: Cursed
    Show
    A low level fear inducer based on the Daunting Presence feat. Makes the feat faster to use, allows for making intimidate checks on top of the effect to make the target Frightened or Panicked instead, and some minor bonuses against shaken, frightened, and panicked targets. Looking for a better name.


    EDIT2: Revamped Feral moved to main post, replacing the old version.
    I really like the idea of the Naturalist.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    EdroGrimshell's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranged Ranger View Post
    I really like the idea of the Naturalist.
    It's one of the more difficult ones mechanically. Trying to set it up properly is... actually kind of annoying.

    The mechanics for it are Nature Bonds, what I call their connections to ley lines, which produce Motes of natural energy they can spend to power their pseudo-spells (supernatural effects referred to as Hedge Magic for simplicity). I'm having a hard time deciding how to go about it, though. The main issue is exactly how Nature Bonds are established, specifically if they are temporary and can be built up or if they are permanent and more limited in number, if they bind automatically or the Naturalist has to do something first... I can't decide. Then there are the many... many Hedge Magics I'll need to stat up for this thing (which I also need to do for the Crypt-Born which is the undead equivalent) as well as the distributions for them and the spells to connect them all together. So... yea, it'll take a little while without some help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
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  28. - Top - End - #88
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    You can potentially get into Dauntless by 2nd level. I'm fine with that, personally. I actually really like this guy - it's an interesting "build-around" class that doesn't take too many levels and which can do some pretty crazy things.

    The Cursed... feels very rough. Also, Terrifying Presence is absolutely broken - forget +20, try "we hired 100 peasants to stand over there, and now they are shaking in their boots (due to my fear-stacking shenanigans). I get a +100 to everything!"

    ---

    So, the Tough ability for the Dauntless... am I reading that right? Would a character with four instances of Toughness and three levels of Dauntless have +24 HP, +4 to Fort saves, and +2 NA? Do feats like Azure Toughness count towards this?
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I finally broke down and got a homebrewer's signature.

    This signature is currently so far out of date that it will loop around to being in date... never.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Rizban's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Do feats like Azure Toughness count towards this?
    Azure Toughness explicitly counts itself as Toughness, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    Aldhaven - May 27, 2010 and ongoing.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    EdroGrimshell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Experimental PrC Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    You can potentially get into Dauntless by 2nd level. I'm fine with that, personally. I actually really like this guy - it's an interesting "build-around" class that doesn't take too many levels and which can do some pretty crazy things.
    I'm glad you like it! It was a pretty quick class, all things considered. The first one I finished after getting the Feral Redux down, in fact. This class plays really well with a lot of my other Experimental PrCs, too. Specifically Undying, Unyielding Soul, and Stigmatist.

    It also gets you interested in armor materials, which may well send you on a quest in game to get a good material. Mithral and Adamantine are obvious choices, I admit, but, my personal favorite would be Aurorum. Armor made from Aurorum can be repaired as a full-round action just by holding the pieces together so you can use all of your armor's HP if you need it, and then just have it put back together an instant later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    So, the Tough ability for the Dauntless... am I reading that right? Would a character with four instances of Toughness and three levels of Dauntless have +24 HP, +4 to Fort saves, and +2 NA? Do feats like Azure Toughness count towards this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Azure Toughness explicitly counts itself as Toughness, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    You've got the math right, 6 HP per Toughness feat, +1 Fort per Toughness Feat, and +1 NA per two Toughness Feats. I take it you chose 4 because that's the minimum number the Dauntless gets over the course of its leveling?

    What Rizban said in regards to Azure Toughness, though that's only if the feat says it counts as Toughness. If you use the "advanced" toughness feats from Masters of the Wild (Dwarf's, Giant's, and Dragon's Toughness) I'd rule that they'd count as Toughness as well (they're 3.0 so not technically part of 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The Cursed... feels very rough. Also, Terrifying Presence is absolutely broken - forget +20, try "we hired 100 peasants to stand over there, and now they are shaking in their boots (due to my fear-stacking shenanigans). I get a +100 to everything!"
    It is very much a first draft and open for change. It was a quick write up that I got frustrated with trying to rewrite and just posted to get some ideas, so I'm hoping to change it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFawkes View Post
    You didn't poke fate with a stick. You set fate on fire, then whacked it with a 2x4 several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwind1kaze View Post
    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

    P. hysical
    M. ind
    S. pirit

    XD

    Spoiler
    Show


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