OOTS #994 - The Discussion Thread

[Keltest]

Or when addressing the priest prior to whispering: "But not for me".

Indeed. It strikes me as pretty clear that the HPoH is not concerned with the disguise anymore.

[Gift Jeraff]

Indeed. It strikes me as pretty clear that the HPoH is not concerned with the disguise anymore.

He's in the Circle of Truth when he says "But not for me," but continues the accent once outside of the circle.

[Neoriceisgood]

Interesting to see how this will progress..

[Peelee]

It will still end up with the same result if that's the case, I believe. The guy "escorting" Durkula (I prefer "Darkon" but that seems to be the one that caught on) seems to know full well he's actually the HPOH and not REALLY Durkon, and quite obviously does not care. That being the case, I would think he at least would join Durkula in turning on Belkar, plus who even knows how many of the other clerics for whatever mysterious reasons.

?

How could the escort know it's not Durkon when the escort never knew who Durkon was?

[Hacktor]

Roy's Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering was a nice touch.

This is the attention to detail I love about this comic :D

[Shining Wrath]

He's in the Circle of Truth when he says "But not for me," but continues the accent once outside of the circle.

And then drops it last panel when the Order is (he thinks) out of earshot.

[Fitzclowningham]

And then drops it last panel when the Order is (he thinks) out of earshot.

In other words, there are already two things that pretty much indisputably outs HPoH as not-Durkon, presuming Belkar could hear them.

[rodneyAnonymous]

He's in the Circle of Truth when he says "But not for me," but continues the accent once outside of the circle.

Since that is a custom spell, who knows of course, but zone of truth is mind-affecting, so undead are immune to it. The vampire doesn't tell an outright lie until he steps out of the circle, though, and the fake accent reappears too...

[Porthos]

In other words, there are already two things that pretty much indisputably outs HPoH as not-Durkon, presuming Belkar could hear them.

"Indisputably"?

I suspect if we never saw the reveal there would be many theories as to what exactly was going on. This is the GitP OotS forums, after all.

[Keltest]

Since that is a custom spell, who knows of course, but zone of truth is mind-affecting, so undead are immune to it. The vampire doesn't tell an outright lie until he steps out of the circle, though, and the fake accent reappears too...

I dunno, I have a really hard time believing that "speaking with an accent you do not natively possess" would count as a lie to be shut down by the circle even if it could affect vampires. And its practically a cliché that "speaking something that is technically true and letting the other person make their own assumptions about your meaning" is a plausible way to get around magical lie detectors.

[Lanrezac]

Zeus and Hera were part of the Eastern Gods who were all killed by the snarl. Veldrina is the Rep of the Western Gods

Derp! See, I knew I was missing something. You are well named, goodpeople25! And thanks to you too, RedXIV.

[Porthos]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this participation in the Godsmoot will have little if anything to do with the Snarl, at least at first. From a narrative standpoint it just feels wrong to go after the Snarl now to later return to deal with the prophecy about Durkon's return home.

As the Internet Meme goes, "Why not both?"

The fact that this moot was called on extremely short notice, and the implication that this is rare to do so, strongly hints at it being Snarl-related.

Instead, given the recent flashbacks, events in the Godsmoot will probably tie in to Durkon's home village and the prophecies regarding his return. Probably also with the exact reason why Hel has no other worshippers.

"Why not both"?

To put this another way, why can't we learn more about Hel's deal, gets some down and groovy death and destruction with the Snarl being a catalyst.

Throw in some major shade being thrown at Roy for his actions at Girard's Pyramid and we have ourselves a party.

[Majiy]

I don´t know if it was already mentioned, but did you notice that Gontor mentions "The High Priest of Thor" has already arrived.

Could this be the dwarf that sent the letter to Durkon? The one that the Monster in the Dark ate? (The letter, not the dwarf.)

[Porthos]

I don´t know if it was already mentioned, but did you notice that Gontor mentions "The High Priest of Thor" has already arrived.

Could this be the dwarf that sent the letter to Durkon? The one that the Monster in the Dark ate? (The letter, not the dwarf.)

What I am more interested in knowing is if

Spoiler: Origins details

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If the High Priest of Odin is the one who was made the prophecy in the first place.

If the new High Priest of Thor did some asking around after he sent his response letter to Durkon, things could get a little interesting.

They might even get MORE interesting if the HPoO kept the new HPoT in the dark about things.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm also interested if the other dwarf (Blackore?) is there as an escort, since he knows the details as well.

[LuisDantas]

1) No, it is not for the Northern Gods, it is their turn to host. The Godsmoot is the meeting of the High Priests or other Representative (such as a Favored Soul) of every deity... if Redcloak/Wrong-Eye knows of it, he can show up and make a fuss, as can possibly the Kobold Oracle who might be a Favored Soul of Tiamet. Veldrina's comment about the Northern Gods calling their Godsmoot with three days notice implies it is for all deities respective representatives, and simply that the Northern Gods are the hosts this time.

Sorry, but that is neither a natural reading of Veldrina's claim in #987 (she is after all representing two whole pantheons, presumably by herself) nor conciliable with Gontor's very explicit claim in this latest strip that only the High Priests of the Northern Gods are allowed. Veldrina is an exception because she was explicitly invited, presumably on unusually short notice.

Nor is it even confirmed that Banjo is an actual OOtS-verse God, although it is very likely. Even then, it does not necessarily follow that Banjo has, needs or even wants worshippers of any kind, and therefore Elan is not automatically a cleric or favored soul. After all, Hel had no worshippers whatsoever until very recently, despite being very much a part of the Northern Pantheon.

Guesses about what might have happened to Hilgya are just that, guesses. For all we know Hilgya is a very minor cleric by Loki's standards, and that is assuming that she is even alive in the first place.

[Arin]

Nor is it even confirmed that Banjo is an actual OOtS-verse God, although it is very likely. Even then, it does not necessarily follow that Banjo has, needs or even wants worshippers of any kind, and therefore Elan is not automatically a cleric or favored soul. After all, Hel had no worshippers whatsoever until very recently, despite being very much a part of the Northern Pantheon.

Banjo's a puppet.

It's a little scary that we've all (myself included for a minute there) bought THIS far into Elan's shenanigans.

[LuisDantas]

In other words, there are already two things that pretty much indisputably outs HPoH as not-Durkon, presuming Belkar could hear them.

Also, Gontor explicitly describes the High Priest of Hel as a formal delegate of his deity, just minutes after denying Durkon entry because Roy admitted that he was not that. So Belkar knows or can easily guess that Durkula is indeed formally entitled to participate, but is hiding that from Roy for reasons that can not be in the best interest of the Order of the Stick (nor would they be even remotely in character for Durkon).

Banjo's a puppet.

It's a little scary that we've all (myself included for a minute there) bought THIS far into Elan's shenanigans.

That is because Elan has apparently managed to divinely smite while empowered by Banjo, albeit for such little effect that even Elan admits that the results are negligible.

If the known origin of the Dark One is even half-true, in the OOtS-verse it is possible to attain divinity out of the strength of worshippers.

As the Internet Meme goes, "Why not both?"

The fact that this moot was called on extremely short notice, and the implication that this is rare to do so, strongly hints at it being Snarl-related.

Only if it is somehow a consequence of the destruction of Girard's Gate, which may well be case (and takes us back to the cliffhanger in #945); the Snarl has been a problem for some time now.

But I think the moot is more directly linked to the loss of Durkon and the arising of High Priest of Hel. One would assume that Thor noticed Durkon's death and must be as aware of Durkula's existence. Discussing what that implies may easily be the main (planned) subject matter of this moot.

"Why not both"?

To put this another way, why can't we learn more about Hel's deal, gets some down and groovy death and destruction with the Snarl being a catalyst.

We might, but it looks a bit busy. Of course, the Giant is good at handling busy.

Throw in some major shade being thrown at Roy for his actions at Girard's Pyramid and we have ourselves a party.

I'm drawing a blank. What actions?

[Keltest]

Only if it is somehow a consequence of the destruction of Girard's Gate, which may well be case (and takes us back to the cliffhanger in #945); the Snarl has been a problem for some time now.

But I think the moot is more directly linked to the loss of Durkon and the arising of High Priest of Hel. One would assume that Thor noticed Durkon's death and must be as aware of Durkula's existence. Discussing what that implies may easily be the main (planned) subject matter of this moot.

I would think that, were the moot about Durkon, he would explicitly not be allowed to attend, for safety reasons if nothing else. Also, compared to the gate situation, its rather small scale.

[LuisDantas]

I would think that, were the moot about Durkon, he would explicitly not be allowed to attend, for safety reasons if nothing else.

Really? That would be self-defeating, don't you think?

Also, compared to the gate situation, its rather small scale.

The Northern Gods have known about the snarl for a long time, though, and they could have acted at any time, including as of the Azure City crisis. They may be spurred by the fact that only a single stadning Gate remains, I suppose.

[Bulldog Psion]

Banjo's a puppet.

It's a little scary that we've all (myself included for a minute there) bought THIS far into Elan's shenanigans.

He generated a tiny bolt of wrathful divine lightning. Banjo is a god, IMO, just an extremely, extremely minor one, powered by a congregation of 1.

[Keltest]

Really? That would be self-defeating, don't you think?

Not unless the plan was to lure him there so they could all jump and dust him. If the feel that Hel having a high priest is concerning enough to have a moot about it, allowing said high priest to participate would, if anything, exacerbate the problems theyre concerned about.

[Throknor]

Banjo's a puppet.

It's a little scary that we've all (myself included for a minute there) bought THIS far into Elan's shenanigans.

If Banjo isn't a god, where did the lightning come from?

You don't have to be a cleric for your faith to power the god. Elan may in fact be the high priest by virtue of being his only follower, even if he would be a level 0 cleric for not actually applying any experience towards it.

Of course, Banjo still isn't in the northern gods' pantheon, so Elan wouldn't be admitted without an invitation regardless.

[Keltest]

He generated a tiny bolt of wrathful divine lightning. Banjo is a god, IMO, just an extremely, extremely minor one, powered by a congregation of 1.

Banjo may also be drawing power from the faith of the island orcs in the pantheon in general now as well. I believe I recall reading a comment from the giant somewhere to the effect that an entire pantheon is strengthened a little bit by the worshipers of individual gods. So while Giggles may have more worshipers than Banjo, Banjo still gets a benefit.

[ti'esar]

"Indisputably"?

I suspect if we never saw the reveal there would be many theories as to what exactly was going on. This is the GitP OotS forums, after all.

It does indisputably out the HPoH as a liar, though - up until now he's been pretending to have remained a worshiper of Thor.

[Porthos]

I'm drawing a blank. What actions?

Spoiler: Commentary in BRitF

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Rich has STRONGLY hinted that Roy deciding to destroy Girard's Gate is going to severely bite him in the ass in the current book.

The Order, and specifically Roy, destroyed a Gate with their eyes wide open. No mistake or accident or intervening of fate/other party can absolve Roy/the Order here. Roy might have had incomplete information, but he still knowingly and willingly weakened the pillars of reality. The SG might have let him off the hook when there were still three standing. Time will tell if other folks will be as forgiving when there is only one.

It does indisputably out the HPoH as a liar, though - up until now he's been pretending to have remained a worshiper of Thor.

True. But that wouldn't preclude a Change of Point of View enforced via magic/whatever. For instance, slap a paladin with a Helm of Opposite Alignment, and I doubt they're gonna keep praying to Pelor.

...

Unless the rumors about The Burning Hate are true, of course.

[LuisDantas]

Not unless the plan was to lure him there so they could all jump and dust him. If the feel that Hel having a high priest is concerning enough to have a moot about it, allowing said high priest to participate would, if anything, exacerbate the problems theyre concerned about.

That is true... if the Northern Gods all think like gangsters.

[Keltest]

That is true... if the Northern Gods all think like gangsters.

I wouldn't put it past them...

But anyway, what problems, exactly, do you think the HPoH could cause that would warrant calling a moot about instead of, I don't know, sending a holy hit squad after him or something?

[Father Miles]

So I might have missed it somewhere, but if vampire Durkon is unwilling, is there any practical way to resurrect him? If a vampire can turn to mist at will, how do you keep him in place for the long casting time of resurrectio ? Does he have a coffin where he could be staked following a battle... It seems like that is the only way to free Durkon from the HPOH. Maybe I am overlooking something obvious?

[Porthos]

So I might have missed it somewhere, but if vampire Durkon is unwilling, is there any practical way to resurrect him? If a vampire can turn to mist at will, how do you keep him in place for the long casting time of resurrectio ? Does he have a coffin where he could be staked following a battle... It seems like that is the only way to free Durkon from the HPOH. Maybe I am overlooking something obvious?

"Durkon" has to be killed before casting Resurrection on him. The spell won't work on a functionally "alive" undead.