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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Lvl 2 Expert's Avatar

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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    I think the last two books will stretch out the remaining time quite a lot. As the oracle hinted to his fans, it's in-comic soon (yes, yes, an in-comic year, same thing).

    I don't think Belkar will become a vampire, because I (just following the public consensus here) suspect the vampirism thing is already the key to Durkon's post-mortem return prophecy. You can't use the same twist on two highly related events, it loses its punch. In fact, I choose to believe that Belkar will truly die, stop existing as a living being on stickplane prime and not be resurrected. I don't know if we will see where he ends up, if he gets some sort of semi-redemption (the comic implies he's way more evil than what we see of his behavior, which is often pretty typical adventurer stuff with a mean streak and a twisted sense of humor, he's not just going to become good by any simple means) or anything else, but with Durkon already cheating death, Belkar seems doomed. If Belkar does "live" in some fashion, I give it a pretty good chance Durkon will actually die and be brought to his homeland for burial, like some sort of anti-twist/twistception.

    That is all assuming Belkar doesn't ascend to being an actual sexy shoeless god of war of course, I'm leaving that option open for now.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2015-07-22 at 06:47 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You have no evidence of this at all, you know.
    Since when has that stopped anyone claiming anything.

    Whether it is the Gods that enforce or the Clerics that enforce or some other power is not known - the most likely options would seem to me to be the clerics but I don't think the Gods are much of a stretch.

    Anyway:
    How Belkar will die...
    ... probably like some kind of a badass.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Personally I think the same fate that happened to Kragaar will happen to Belkar. Which will make it look like he gets wiped out existence to the oracle and everyone else. But no one understands the snarl and what its effects really are. I don't think Kragaar is really dead either.

    I also think it possible that when Belkar and the order goes into the timeless world beyond the rift, Belkar ends up voluntarily staying behind. Him and scruffy become some sort of guardians, and perhaps a quite literal sexy shoeless god of war.

    I also think that it is relevant that Roy remembers what the oracle says. He wasn't supposed to remember. That bypassed the oracles security. This is going to become a plot point later. Roy's knowledge could help prevent Belkar's fate.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    I'm inclined to think Belkar will actually die, and die in the very fundamental sense that the character is no longer active in the plot in any way, shape, or form. No resurrections, no undead walking the earth, no spirit presence, no soul trapped in a crystal, no cyborg body, etc. I think when the Oracle says he's gonna die, full stop, no breathing - it means he's dead dead, not "technically" dead. There are a million ways to revive a dead body/mind/soul in a fantasy world, but I think Belkar will be just dead.

    And whoever mentioned their theory that Roy will be the one to kill Belkar - WOW, that is dark.

    But it also actually makes a lot of sense. Roy more or less views himself as Belkar's jailer, and Belkar's death represents the lifting of that burden. He wardens Belkar around because he feels obligated as a Good-aligned hero and the leader of the party. The death of Belkar represents the technical fulfillment of his responsibility for Belkar.

    But he feels no obligation to try to connect with Belkar, to provide guidance to him, and ultimately redeem him - in either his role as a Good hero or his role as Belkar's commander. The Deva decides to categorize his relationship with Belkar as "an attempt to redeem an evildoer", but Roy honestly doesn't make any efforts to that goal. His goal is to direct the situation towards the lesser of two evils, and how it all works out with Belkar afterwards isn't really his concern. It's an attitude which does crop up in Roy's personality every now and then - the "I don't really care, it's not my problem" approach - which is why I think the Deva was considering kicking him over to Neutral Good instead.

    In any case, Roy looks forward to that point - when Belkar is no longer his concern. The death of Belkar marks kind of a positive milestone in his book.

    Which would make the end result of Roy killing Belkar ... make a lot of sense. Belkar is setting himself up as an antagonist from Roy's perspective - continually attacking Roy's "best friend" (as Roy thinks of Durkula) can't be helping Belkar earn points in his favor. If a situation arose where it was Belkar vs. Durkula in a fight to the death, there is no question which side Roy would step in to assist. And then the question becomes how willing Roy would be to deliver the killing blow.

    If Belkar discovers the real identity of Hel's Priest ... this just might end with Roy fulfilling the prophecy. In fact, knowledge of the prophecy (that Belkar would die soon) might even pre-dispose Roy to making that prophecy come true ("Y'know what - I don't even care at this point, Belkar, you're a dead man walking anyway"). Which means Durkula walking away hand-in-hand with his buddy Roy, who has no knowledge of what he's really done.

    Which ... would be rather a fittingly ironic end for Belkar as well. A lifetime of evil deeds, but when he actually tries to do good, he reaps the reward of no one there to trust him and support him.

    Yeesh ... This is getting Greek-levels of tragic here.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    Which ... would be rather a fittingly ironic end for Belkar as well. A lifetime of evil deeds, but when he actually tries to do good, he reaps the reward of no one there to trust him and support him.
    So basically the halfling who cried "Vampire"? Kinda wish Durkon was a werewolf, that would sound so much better.

    Personally I don't think it's a good idea to go around killing off characters after you've put so much effort into making a well rounded main character. It takes a long time to make a character seem three-dimensional and Belkar is probably the most well developed character in the comic (with the possible exception of Vaarsuvius). It'd be a massive loss to the comic for only a little bit of story advancement. Personally I believe that The Giant is too sensible to do that, which is why I'm thinking Belkar will become a vampire.

    (Also, after Malack, I could be a little bit biased in that department. Vampires are awesome.)

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    Vaarsuvius received complete and total ultimate arcane power (complete spell list, all schools, and a higher caster level than any caster ever) by saying the four right words (I... I must succeed.) to the right being (the Fiend) at the right time (when it happened) for all the wrong reasons. (To prove that magic doesn't fail, as V didn't try any other options)
    I have to disagree here. V did have another option, one that was presented to her by the Fiends. (You can debate whether it would have worked or not, but it was an option.)

    I think the Fiends made it extremely clear that the pride was the "wrong reason." That if V chose the other choice, it would mean crawling back to Master and asking him to solve the problem. V's pride is what couldn't allow that to happen.

    Magic would have solved the problem either way, as A. is a wizard. It was *V's* magic that needed to resolve it.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusion View Post
    I have to disagree here. V did have another option, one that was presented to her by the Fiends. (You can debate whether it would have worked or not, but it was an option.)

    I think the Fiends made it extremely clear that the pride was the "wrong reason." That if V chose the other choice, it would mean crawling back to Master and asking him to solve the problem. V's pride is what couldn't allow that to happen.

    Magic would have solved the problem either way, as A. is a wizard. It was *V's* magic that needed to resolve it.
    The "option" presented by the fiends would not have actually worked. Resurrection and Sending combined have a collective casting time far in excess of the time V actually had, scrolls or not. V however did not know this (and frankly, I suspect that line may have been thrown in specifically to justify why V didn't call out the alternative plan as bogus).
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The "option" presented by the fiends would not have actually worked. Resurrection and Sending combined have a collective casting time far in excess of the time V actually had, scrolls or not. V however did not know this (and frankly, I suspect that line may have been thrown in specifically to justify why V didn't call out the alternative plan as bogus).
    Activating a scroll is a standard action, it doesn't matter the casting time of the original spell, because casting from a scroll is activating a spell completion item. Perhaps the devils knew the dragon would play with her prey and thus knew V would have the ~42 seconds needed for A. to get there and engage in battle, at least.

    It doesn't matter if it would have worked or not - which I agree is debatable mostly so Kish and I don't get into another "could A. do it or not" discussion. Nothing indicates that V believed that option to be unworkable or bogus and therefore it was still a valid option in V's mind.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusion View Post
    Activating a scroll is a standard action, it doesn't matter the casting time of the original spell, because casting from a scroll is activating a spell completion item. Perhaps the devils knew the dragon would play with her prey and thus knew V would have the ~42 seconds needed for A. to get there and engage in battle, at least.

    It doesn't matter if it would have worked or not - which I agree is debatable mostly so Kish and I don't get into another "could A. do it or not" discussion. Nothing indicates that V believed that option to be unworkable or bogus and therefore it was still a valid option in V's mind.
    Resurrection though has a rather extensive cast time of 10 minutes.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2015-07-27 at 06:38 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    I am in the same camp as those that believe Belkar's death is very swiftly approaching at the hands of Durkula.

    The fuse was lit on Belkar's character development long ago and we have been seeing a lot of positive, yet plausible, traits come out of it lately. When Durkon, the voice of reason and compassion, intervened and died on his behalf, I think some of that responsibility fell on Belkar. The strip where he relates the story to Roy and Co. hit hard.

    I think we see Belkar risking himself to get Durkon back and losing the gamble, possibly with V and Roy recognizing and acknowledging his worth.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Dr_D View Post
    I also think it possible that when Belkar and the order goes into the timeless world beyond the rift, Belkar ends up voluntarily staying behind. Him and scruffy become some sort of guardians, and perhaps a quite literal sexy shoeless god of war.
    That would be EPIC! (pun intended)
    Go Belkar, God of the Murderous Halflings!

    As far as Roy goes, we've already seen him do a huge leap in bringing Belkar to the moot, finally facing up to the possibility that "Durkon" may not be who he claims to be. Add to that Roy has to realize something serious is up after they let Durkon into the moot at all after saying any "normal" cleric needs to wait outside.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Actually, I don't see why Belkar couldn't die right here on the Godsmoot, possibly while also destroying the High Priest of Hel.

    Look, it's the perfect opportunity. The vampire is destroyed and Belkar dies, so the Order is down two members, a cleric and a figher. They hire Veldrina as replacement cleric, and Wrecan as replacement stabby guy. Besides stabbing things, Belkar was needed for his unique viewpoint and snarky comments. But Vaarsuvius has already proved she can occasionally represent Belkar's viewpoint when Belkar is unavailable at the moment, and Xykon can also provide some of the jokes and spontaneous nicknames. The comic is getting darker and more serious anyway, so we may have less need for Belkar's jokes anyway.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Meta knowledge rules that out. Veldrina is somebody else's character. It's unlikely she'll play major role in the story, both because she wasn't known when the story was plotted out, and because then he'd be taking creative control of that person's character beyond what they intended when they bought the Kickstarter reward. Right now she's just getting extended on screen appearances, she's unlikely to contribute directly to the plot itself beyond what amounts to pointing them in the right direction.

    I can see Wrecan staying, though. But we already have Roy, plus Ochul and Lien at the next gate. They don't really need to be filling in a meat shield slot anytime soon.

    It's possible for Belkar to die, sure, but Durkon is going to be around for a bit. The fact that he's in the story and developing as a character tells us he's going to be around for a little bit. If he just gets dusted here, then what was the point of all that doom and gloom, or the "to be continued" at the end of the last book? It wouldn't make sense to set up Hel's big plan just to have him revealed and killed at stage one. And if he did die, someone would be able to raise real Durkon here, which would mean Durkon's vampirization had absolutely zero purpose to the story. Even if he triggers some major change, at this point Durkon could have been mind controlled or tricked by demons and you'd have the same plotline.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    I have my own theory on the Belkster's demise, timely or otherwise.

    Every time someone posts another theory on when/how/if Belkar dies, his lifetime is extended for 10 strips.

    By my estimates, including my addition, Belkar will die..... hmm... clever math-hypotenuse-carry the horse...........

    Five hundred strips after the end of the last book.
    Last edited by Bobb; 2015-07-28 at 03:30 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    But we already have Roy, plus Ochul and Lien at the next gate. They don't really need to be filling in a meat shield slot anytime soon.
    Wait what? Will O-Chul and Lien really be there? Wasn't that just a bluff the MitD invented?

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Wait what? Will O-Chul and Lien really be there? Wasn't that just a bluff the MitD invented?
    They were sent there to see if they can muster any extra defense against Xykon. Whether or not they successfully arrived, or have since been disintegrated for existing, remains to be seen.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    I have my own theory on the Belkster's demise, timely or otherwise.

    Every time someone posts another theory on when/how/if Belkar dies, his lifetime is extended for 10 strips.

    By my estimates, including my addition, Belkar will die..... hmm... clever math-hypotenuse-carry the horse...........

    Five hundred strips after the end of the last book.
    It is possible but unlikely that the strip could end and Belkar's fate not be explained. Anyone know if The Giant was a fan of the way the Sopranos ended?

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    How will Belkar die?

    In his own words (after V cast crushing despair on him): "I'm going to die alone and unloved."
    I am here to discuss things with people who cannot possibly completely share my perspective, because they are not me. I am not here to win anything. How could I even claim victory if I gained no more from a conversation than I brought in?

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    I have my own theory on the Belkster's demise, timely or otherwise.

    Every time someone posts another theory on when/how/if Belkar dies, his lifetime is extended for 10 strips.

    By my estimates, including my addition, Belkar will die..... hmm... clever math-hypotenuse-carry the horse...........

    Five hundred strips after the end of the last book.
    If that equation is accurate, I think it may take much longer than that. I guess it depends on how you define posting another theory.


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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Once a Fool View Post
    How will Belkar die?

    In his own words (after V cast crushing despair on him): "I'm going to die alone and unloved."
    Unless Mr. Scruffy dies first, that's probably unlikely.

    ...And now I've made myself sad.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcuriel View Post
    A theory regarding the manner in which Belkar Bitterleaf, the chaotic evil halfling rogue|barbarian, will pass from the world of OOTS permanently, as prophecized by the kobold servant of Tiamat referred to as the Oracle (by way of his non-clerical powers gifted by said goddess), and corresponding with recent occurences:

    Metaphorically.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Seriously, though, think about how all the other prophecies are being fulfilled (Durkon's, Belkar's proper prophecy, etc.)
    Also, Belkar has already implied that he's changed so much he isn't sure who he is anymore. He's ceasing to be who he was, and a single dramatic event (Serini-related, perhaps?) could be the final straw.
    You know, seeing how he is now so much more bearable and relatable than he used to be during the Azure City plot and his time in Greysky City, or even early desert strips, I am inclined to give this serious thought.

    One could argue that the current Belkar is already a new character. I would not challenge that.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcuriel View Post
    A theory regarding the manner in which Belkar Bitterleaf, the chaotic evil halfling rogue|barbarian, will pass from the world of OOTS permanently, as prophecized by the kobold servant of Tiamat referred to as the Oracle
    I guess the character development in becaming neutral, the reference of "you change slowly during the days and then you don't recognize yourself", the pursuit of eliminate evil (vampire!), the gold amulet stop to hurting him, the refusal of the gnome sex date... is the death of Belkar Little Avater of Death Bitterleaf...
    Last edited by Rinazina; 2015-07-30 at 08:31 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Belkar will either be murdered to be kept silent, (and his body disposed of to prevent him telling anyone the truth with Speak with Dead), or simply framed for the murder. Belkar sadly gets karma in the worst possibly timing, he's meaninglessly murdered so many, that NO ONE has a logical reason to believe he WOULDN'T murder someone without motive or cause.
    Last edited by Alex Warlorn; 2015-07-30 at 02:19 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    My prediction - Belkar will sacrifice himself for the group at the very end and kill V (who will try to end the world while being dominated by the demons) in the process.

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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    I don't think Belkar will become a vampire, because I (just following the public consensus here) suspect the vampirism thing is already the key to Durkon's post-mortem return prophecy. You can't use the same twist on two highly related events, it loses its punch. In fact, I choose to believe that Belkar will truly die, stop existing as a living being on stickplane prime and not be resurrected. I don't know if we will see where he ends up, if he gets some sort of semi-redemption (the comic implies he's way more evil than what we see of his behavior, which is often pretty typical adventurer stuff with a mean streak and a twisted sense of humor, he's not just going to become good by any simple means) or anything else, but with Durkon already cheating death, Belkar seems doomed. If Belkar does "live" in some fashion, I give it a pretty good chance Durkon will actually die and be brought to his homeland for burial, like some sort of anti-twist/twistception.

    That is all assuming Belkar doesn't ascend to being an actual sexy shoeless god of war of course, I'm leaving that option open for now.
    I entertain the thought that Belkar will be redeemed from evil, and will refuse to leave the afterlife to return to the world. Soon sets up the idea that redemption is rare (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html), and while he's talking about it in Miko's context, I think it's foreshadowing both Belkar's and V's journeys. I don't think you can have two redemptions at the same time, though, so I think Belkar's happens, and then (maybe in reaction to Belkar) V continues his path.

    Belkar is also the only character to understand why Shojo does not accept the resurrection: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html. "Shojo is kicking back in whatever afterlife the Chaotic Good people get -- probably sipping single-malt scotch and smoking cigars rolled from poorly worded legal documents." I (and this is perhaps hope) think Belkar shifts his alignment enough that he gets that. Maybe Mr. Scruffy gets killed, and Belkar refuses resurrection for that reason. Maybe Belkar worries that if he comes back, he'll engage in evil again. Whatever happens, my thought is that Belkar refuses to come back.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Father Miles View Post
    It is possible but unlikely that the strip could end and Belkar's fate not be explained. Anyone know if The Giant was a fan of the way the Sopranos ended?
    First panel?
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Even assuming that is what happens, as has been stated before, it wouldn't be Belkar. It would be an entirely new character, and Belkar would be dead and not able to do anything.

    In other words, the exact opposite of what every Belkar Survivalist hopeful wants.

    Besides, the last breath ever bit wasn't the only prophecy for Belkar's end.
    That's assuming the soul of an already chaotic evil creature who registers pretty high on the kilonazi scale needs to be replaced by a new one.
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerglingOne View Post
    That's assuming the soul of an already chaotic evil creature who registers pretty high on the kilonazi scale needs to be replaced by a new one.
    The way vampirism works has little to do with the strength of the evil of the previous soul. According to The Giant, all vampires are formed the same way and it is one of the respective god of death's duties to put the negative energy spirit into the new vampire.


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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    The way vampirism works has little to do with the strength of the evil of the previous soul. According to The Giant, all vampires are formed the same way and it is one of the respective god of death's duties to put the negative energy spirit into the new vampire.
    I don't think I'll ever see another post where the text and the sigline flow in such a perfect way.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: How Belkar will die...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I don't think I'll ever see another post where the text and the sigline flow in such a perfect way.
    Because he links to how vampires work? Or the quote about people who agree with each other arguing?

    Or both?

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