Optimizing Your Backstory, a Guide to Traits and Flaws.

[Kurald Galain]

Very interesting, thanks for doing this.

I'm not sure that alphabetical by category is the best approach to listing traits. Rather, I would like to see all damage-boosting traits together, all "add skill to your class list" traits together, all saving throw traits together, etc. Listing them by effect would make it much easier to find a suitable trait for a character you're building.

Also, note that my Magus guide lists about 15 traits of use to a Magus; this might be useful for your guide as well.

[TheOneHawk]

I have your Magus guide thread on instant notification to email, Kurald. Don't worry, I've read the whole thing multiple times. It was actually your guide that made me decide to do this one.

I plan on having everything green + sorted into categories based on effect, as well. I just need to get through all the traits first and have people point out things I missed. Or would it be better to list everything that has that particular type of effect, rather than just green and higher? Green + is less work, everything is more complete but I don't know how much value it really adds.

[Kurald Galain]

I have your Magus guide thread on instant notification to email, Kurald. Don't worry, I've read the whole thing multiple times. It was actually your guide that made me decide to do this one.

Thanks

Green + is less work, everything is more complete but I don't know how much value it really adds.

Well, in my opinion, the primary aim of a guide is to help people build a character. So it's more useful to give a short list of good choices on a certain topic, than a long list of all choices including crappy ones or unrelated ones.

This is how I've done the spell section in the Magus guide: rather than listing all spells alphabetically, it categorizes spells and lists 3-4 good picks in each category. If spells are uninteresting or simply mediocre, I see no point in listing them (except if they appear good at first sight and I want to point out that they're not).

$.02

[TheOneHawk]

Yeah, that makes sense, I'll do it like that. First I need to actually get through them all. I'll try and get Magic done tonight when I wake up.

[Deadkitten]

I'm not sure how Archives of Nethys has permission to display that, but I'm pretty sure the gods are copyrighted material, which is why they're not on the SRD and why they are currently not in my guide. That said, I could be completely wrong and they're free to show, but unless I'm sure I'm not infringing on any copyrights, I'm not going to do it.

There was actually a thread that derailed into a discussion about the PFSRD and Archives of Nethys awhile back.

Archives basically gets away with it because it is a fan based site that doesn't sell anything. Apparently you can have adds to cover the cost of operating the sight but as long as you are not making any profit you can display Golarion specific material.

I wish I could give you a link to it and the relevant stuff on the matter. But the gist is that I'm 99% sure you can list them by gods and not get in trouble.

If anything, if Paizo did find out they would first send you a letter telling you to stop and all you would have to do is reformat the guide and your in the clear.

[TheOneHawk]

That's good to know. I'll probably add them when I get to Religion traits. I don't believe any Faith traits require specific deities.

Also, there's a ****ing lot of Magic traits. I got A-K done, I'll try and get them finished by tomorrow.

[Unbodied]

That's good to know. I'll probably add them when I get to Religion traits. I don't believe any Faith traits require specific deities.

Also, there's a ****ing lot of Magic traits. I got A-K done, I'll try and get them finished by tomorrow.

Also the old guide has the names of deities and its been up for years.

[Endarire]

@OP: The categories of traits I've seen in your guide so far (as of today) are thus:

-Get a useful class skill or/and a helpful bonus to a class skill. Good.

-Initiative bonus. Wonderful.

-Some misc. helpful trick. Yay!

-Junk, junk, and more junk.

[Unbodied]

Also, there's a ****ing lot of Magic traits. I got A-K done, I'll try and get them finished by tomorrow.

My computer is acting up so I have to respond here (my phone won't let me Edit googledocs). Hegde Magician still seems like its listed to low (unless you're only listing it orange because Spark of Creation is better). Even if you don't like crafting magic items there are a lot of people who do and as far as I know Hedge Magician and Spark of Creation are the only traits that make you better at crafting magic items. I have noticed quite a few traits in your guide that are green or blue even though they're practically useless unless you're playing a certain build or literally useless if you don't play a specific class. Yet those traits deserved their high rankings because if you are playing that build or do play as that class then you seriously need to consider them. Playing a Monk might not be optimal but if you do then a trait that gives a flat bonus to damage with unarmed strikes is golden even if its useless to nearly every other class.

And the same applies for Hegde Magician/Spark of Creation. If you want to be a dedicated crafter then you need to seriously consider those traits.
If there's a worry about not having time for crafting then it should be taken it up with the GM. Unless there's some really compelling reason why the campaign has to take place in a short period of time having some downtime between sessions to craft is the easiest thing in the world to arrange. It even makes more sense in most cases that there would be periods where nothing much happens and it makes it seem less silly that going up a level taught you a new language, play the banjo, forge armor and pick locks.

[TheOneHawk]

@OP: The categories of traits I've seen in your guide so far (as of today) are thus:

-Get a useful class skill or/and a helpful bonus to a class skill. Good.

-Initiative bonus. Wonderful.

-Some misc. helpful trick. Yay!

-Junk, junk, and more junk.

Welcome to traits. Most of them are trash. That's why I'm sorting them, so you don't have to.

My computer is acting up so I have to respond here (my phone won't let me Edit googledocs). Hegde Magician still seems like its listed to low (unless you're only listing it orange because Spark of Creation is better). Even if you don't like crafting magic items there are a lot of people who do and as far as I know Hedge Magician and Spark of Creation are the only traits that make you better at crafting magic items. I have noticed quite a few traits in your guide that are green or blue even though they're practically useless unless you're playing a certain build or literally useless if you don't play a specific class. Yet those traits deserved their high rankings because if you are playing that build or do play as that class then you seriously need to consider them. Playing a Monk might not be optimal but if you do then a trait that gives a flat bonus to damage with unarmed strikes is golden even if its useless to nearly every other class.

And the same applies for Hegde Magician/Spark of Creation. If you want to be a dedicated crafter then you need to seriously consider those traits.
If there's a worry about not having time for crafting then it should be taken it up with the GM. Unless there's some really compelling reason why the campaign has to take place in a short period of time having some downtime between sessions to craft is the easiest thing in the world to arrange. It even makes more sense in most cases that there would be periods where nothing much happens and it makes it seem less silly that going up a level taught you a new language, play the banjo, forge armor and pick locks.

I... I just really hate crafting feats. Any comments from the peanut gallery on this?

[Kurald Galain]

I... I just really hate crafting feats. Any comments from the peanut gallery on this?

I like crafting feats (particularly wondrous item), but I don't think the 5% bonus from these traits is worth it. You save 500 gp for every 10,000 gp you craft, yeah, that's just not a whole lot.

[Unbodied]

Welcome to traits. Most of them are trash. That's why I'm sorting them, so you don't have to.



I... I just really hate crafting feats. Any comments from the peanut gallery on this?

I like crafting feats (particularly wondrous item), but I don't think the 5% bonus from these traits is worth it. You save 500 gp for every 10,000 gp you craft, yeah, that's just not a whole lot.

I'm not really sure myself. On one hand every GP saved is a GP earned and presumably it really pays off in the long run. On the other hand calculating how much I would save on crafting items I really want has been kind of depressing (though I don't have a lot of gold to burn at the moment).

On the third hand I checked out the Mindwright class again, a dedicated crafter archetype for the Psion that gives up a lot of cool powers in return for supreme craftmanship. At level 2 it gets a 5% discount with its Efficient Artisan ability. Then 10% at level 6, 15% at level 10, 20% at level 14 and 25% at level 18. It can't stack that discount with other cost savers like Spark of Creation, presumably because it would make psionic items to cheap to make. So that's what's considered a fair discount in a craft specialized class that doesn't get discipline powers or Talents (0th level powers), which gets kind of crummy craft related replacements for discipline abilities and that has to spend all the Psion's bonus feats on Item Creation Feats even though Psychic Reformation is on the standard power list which means that regular psions can craft all the same types of items but only needs to spend one feat slot on it.

I realize in retrospect that this kind of sounds like a rant against item crafting. Maybe it is. Depends on whether or not a 25% discount is worth those drawbacks, it very well might be considering all the items you can get to get access to different powers.

Anyways tl;dr: The people who wrote the rules seem to think that a 5% discount is a big deal. They might be right.

[TheOneHawk]

Magic traits are done.

[Unbodied]

Magic traits are done.

Not counting Kurald who has already made it clear that he doesn't like it I have gotten two replies on Craft cost savers and both were positive (though not gushing). I think you should at least make Spark of Creation green to differentiate it from Hegde Magician. That +1 on every type of craft check can be useful if you want to create a specific item with a spell/power. Plus I'm very certain that it applies to crafting magic items as well which reduces the risk of failure.

On a different note I noticed that d20pfsrd doesn't list Psionic Traits. Do you want me to take some pictures of the relevant pages in Ultimate Psionics and send them to you?

[TheOneHawk]

I didn't actually notice that Spark of Creation applied to all Craft checks. That's... something. I'll give it green, but I still don't like it.

As far as Psionic traits, they're third party. I do want to get third party traits done at some point, but I'm starting with just Paizo stuff for now. If they're still not up on the SRD by the time I get to them, I would appreciate you sending them, though.

In other news, I thought there were a lot of Magic traits. Then I looked at Race traits.

Kill me.

[Unbodied]

In other news, I thought there were a lot of Magic traits. Then I looked at Race traits.

Kill me.

Okay. What's your adress? :P

More seriously though perhaps focus on splitting them up in managable chunks. ABC then DEF etc.

[TheOneHawk]

Oh I won't be doing them all in one sitting, don't worry. That many traits is probably at least four hours of work for me. It'll be done over the course of a few days, just like Magic was split over 2 days.

I also don't have an address. I live in the middle of absolute nowhere, 2 hours away from the nearest city. Good luck finding me :p

[Saidoro]

I like crafting feats (particularly wondrous item), but I don't think the 5% bonus from these traits is worth it. You save 500 gp for every 10,000 gp you craft, yeah, that's just not a whole lot.

Keep in mind, if you've got a crafting feat you're crafting for the whole party, not just yourself. That 500 easily turns into 2000 if your party is okay with you keeping the 5% savings(I haven't found a group which objected) and want their items for half price as much as you do(they do). I'd easily put Spark of Creation at blue(though it's certainly not purple unless your campaign is both low leveled and big on down time). Hedge Magician, of course, should be red due to being strictly worse than an option that it cannot possibly be selected simultaneously with.

[TheOneHawk]

I'm doing traits on their own merits rather than just red marking everything with a mechanically stronger alternative just for my own sanity. I can't keep track mentally of every trait. Once I have them all sorted into categories I can put mentions of options that are simply better in every way.

[Saidoro]

Fair enough.

[Unbodied]

I also don't have an address. I live in the middle of absolute nowhere, 2 hours away from the nearest city. Good luck finding me :p

You revealed to much Mr Hawk. I have narrowed it down to three possible locations and have sent teams of elite shinobi to each of them. There will be no escape Mr Hawk.

[TheOneHawk]

You revealed to much Mr Hawk. I have narrowed it down to three possible locations and have sent teams of elite shinobi to each of them. There will be no escape Mr Hawk.

I apologize for the delay in updates, I spent the last few days engaging in hit and run tactics upon Mr. Unbodied's "elite" shinobi. They have been disposed of and now updates may resume as normal. Race traits A-C are complete.

[master4sword]

On a different note I noticed that d20pfsrd doesn't list Psionic Traits. Do you want me to take some pictures of the relevant pages in Ultimate Psionics and send them to you?

Psionic Traits
Psionic Race Traits
Dream Traits


Granted, there's probably some in Ultimate Psionics that aren't on the site.

[Unbodied]

I apologize for the delay in updates, I spent the last few days engaging in hit and run tactics upon Mr. Unbodied's "elite" shinobi. They have been disposed of and now updates may resume as normal. Race traits A-C are complete.

I'll get you next time OneHawk! NEEEEEXT TIIIIMEEEE!

Psionic Traits
Psionic Race Traits
Dream Traits


Granted, there's probably some in Ultimate Psionics that aren't on the site.

Neat, I didn’t notice those. I think those are all of them, Ult Psi's selection of traits was somewhat lackluster.

By the way OneHawk, you wanted to do third party traits by themselves but what about Race Traits?

[TheOneHawk]

Third party traits will have their own section, regardless of it they actually share a section with Paizo traits, to prevent confusion with all Paizo games.

[Unbodied]

Does anyone know if there's a Trait that gives you an animal companion or familiar? I could have sworn I saw a trait like that once.

[TheOneHawk]

Does anyone know if there's a Trait that gives you an animal companion or familiar? I could have sworn I saw a trait like that once.

I vaguely doubt it and haven't seen it myself, but if there is it's gonna be purple.

Also, Racial traits D-G are up. These are taking a long time to chew through, sorry. There's a lot of them.

[Unbodied]

I vaguely doubt it and haven't seen it myself, but if there is it's gonna be purple.

Also, Racial traits D-G are up. These are taking a long time to chew through, sorry. There's a lot of them.

Maybe it was a Racial Trait?

Anyway:

Magical Knack: Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn't raise your caster level above your current Hit Dice. Are you playing a casting class without full caster level? Are you playing a caster class and plan on multiclassing into a non caster class? Take this trait. End of story. +2 caster level is a massive buff to get from a trait.

Could you explain this for me? I thought the Knack trait was only useful if you multiclass but its useful for classes without full Caster level? How does that work? And do you or someone else in this thread know if Psionic Knack (which seems to be the exact same thing for manifesters) would be similarly useful to classes that don't get full manifesting like Cryptics, Dreads or Marksmen?

[grarrrg]

Could you explain this for me? I thought the Knack trait was only useful if you multiclass but its useful for classes without full Caster level? How does that work?

Rangers and Paladins have "Caster level -3".
But oddly enough, Bloodragers have FULL Caster level.

[Extra Anchovies]

Rangers and Paladins have "Caster level -3".
But oddly enough, Bloodragers have FULL Caster level.

Mediums from Occult adventures do as well, but that's likely because they get knacks (psychic cantrips) from level 1.