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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    PEI, Canada
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    Default Trade Cunning Action

    Hey everyone. I'm building a Fighter 12 / Rogue 3 / xxx5, i'm currently Fighter 1 / Rogue 1.

    I wondering about cunning action. My character is a Duergar, he'll play mostly as a frontline fighter, clad in medium armor and wielding either his rapier + shield with 2d6 sneak attack damage or his maul with GWF + GWM. Both weapons will have a chance to shine in different situations. I'll mainly be using the maul, because I think with the great weapon master feat plus the fighting style and extra attack the maul will edge out the rapier + 2d6 sneak attack damage. Also, any round I get surprise as an assassin / fighter with a maul and GWM, i'm going to be pretty deadly, hitting for 4d6+4 x3 (two attacks + bonus attack on crit from GWM), then if I action surge i'll get a fourth 4d6+4! That's not including any superiority dice I throw in, or the +10 damage -5 attack (all my attacks in surprise round have advantage so I can more safely sacrifice -5 to hit for +10 damage) from GWM.

    Anyhow assassinating with a maul sounds fun. Perhaps not the most optimal but its effective at what it does.

    So anytime I need a bit of extra AC, I can strap on my shield and have at it with my rapier + sneak attack dice, and still be competing with the maul.

    Back on topic now. I don't really see cunning action very fitting, thematically with my character. I can't really envision a Duergar dancing around the battlefield, dashing and hiding. So I am asking you guys for ideas on a decent trade out. Something that is roughly equal value, considering how cunning action is one of the rogues most powerful class feature I think I have some good options.

    Right now i was thinking of trading out cunning action for a second fighting style and taking Defense? +1 AC for the ability to dash, disengage and hide as a bonus action seems fair if not a lesser option?

    What do you guys think? Any other ideas that might fit well with this character?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Steampunkette's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Trade Cunning Action

    I wouldn't oppose that trade in my game, but I would also try to convince you not to do it.

    Duergar are tunnel fighters. Being able to fight, then fade back from an opponent before they can react makes a ton of sense. Especially using nooks and crannies in cavern walls to hide long enough for the next wave of attacks from your compatriots goes off before you strike and fade, again.

    Especially against those weakeyed surface dwellers this is a fantastic tactic if you can take out their light source, which is often fragile.
    Last edited by Steampunkette; 2015-07-26 at 12:42 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    In a dungeon somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Trade Cunning Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Snig View Post
    Hey everyone. I'm building a Fighter 12 / Rogue 3 / xxx5, i'm currently Fighter 1 / Rogue 1.

    I wondering about cunning action. My character is a Duergar, he'll play mostly as a frontline fighter, clad in medium armor and wielding either his rapier + shield with 2d6 sneak attack damage or his maul with GWF + GWM. Both weapons will have a chance to shine in different situations. I'll mainly be using the maul, because I think with the great weapon master feat plus the fighting style and extra attack the maul will edge out the rapier + 2d6 sneak attack damage. Also, any round I get surprise as an assassin / fighter with a maul and GWM, i'm going to be pretty deadly, hitting for 4d6+4 x3 (two attacks + bonus attack on crit from GWM), then if I action surge i'll get a fourth 4d6+4! That's not including any superiority dice I throw in, or the +10 damage -5 attack (all my attacks in surprise round have advantage so I can more safely sacrifice -5 to hit for +10 damage) from GWM.

    Anyhow assassinating with a maul sounds fun. Perhaps not the most optimal but its effective at what it does.

    So anytime I need a bit of extra AC, I can strap on my shield and have at it with my rapier + sneak attack dice, and still be competing with the maul.

    Back on topic now. I don't really see cunning action very fitting, thematically with my character. I can't really envision a Duergar dancing around the battlefield, dashing and hiding. So I am asking you guys for ideas on a decent trade out. Something that is roughly equal value, considering how cunning action is one of the rogues most powerful class feature I think I have some good options.

    Right now i was thinking of trading out cunning action for a second fighting style and taking Defense? +1 AC for the ability to dash, disengage and hide as a bonus action seems fair if not a lesser option?

    What do you guys think? Any other ideas that might fit well with this character?
    I'd probably go 13 Fighter/3 Rogue/4 Vengeance Paladin.

    With a maul and Assassinate: 4d6+4+2d6+4+2d6+4+2d6+4+4d8 (Level 2 Divine Smite on a Crit)+1d6 (Hunter's Mark)
    This totals 20+12+12+12+20+4, or 80 damage in one round. On a round that you use action surge, you can deal 160 damage this way.

    With a Rapier and Assassinate: 2d8+3(?)+1d8+3+1d8+3+4d8+1d6+2d6 (Sneak Attack)
    This totals 13+8+8+20+4+8, or 61 damage in one round. If you Action Surge, you're looking at 122 damage.

    For only a +2 bonus to AC, I would say "Screw it!" and just wield the maul.

    As to your actual question about swapping Cunning Action for a Fighting Style; as a DM, I would agree with Steampunkette: I would let you do it, but I would advise against it.
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2015-07-26 at 04:25 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ninja_Prawn's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: Trade Cunning Action

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    As to your actual question about swapping Cunning Action for a Fighting Style; as a DM, I would agree with Steampunkette: I would let you do it, but I would advise against it.
    Add my voice to that chorus.

    If there's one word that most describes duergar (other than "tyrannical"), it's "cunning". I mean, they get Invisibility as a racial ability in the MM!
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2015-07-26 at 04:58 AM.
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