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  1. - Top - End - #361
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    I might be overlooking something here so i might as well ask. Is there anything in Steelforge to improve firearms? I have some money to spend on my gunsmoke mystic and can't find a lot of good options.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orderic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by swaoeaeieu
    Or maybe, i dont know... adoption?
    Don't be ridiculous. We need those orphans...
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  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    So, thought about the cost of sidegrading Razor. What if rather than outright losing enhancements, Razor had some number of floating enhancement points that could be swapped in--say at the start of the day, or after ten minutes or an hour of work, whatever. This would eventually evolve into Warlord's Arsenal. In the mean time, it gives you some useful flexibility to respond to new threats, and greater freedom to experiment at less risk. That said, it turns sidegrading into more of a straight upgrade which is both good and bad.

    The Bladebound Magus sidebar is good, but it seems a little odd fluffwise. "Hey dark weapon of unknowable agency, look over there while I grab this awesome sword." Maybe rather than outright sundering the blade, Razor could temporarily take it on as a passenger personality, with a shadow of the blade showing up in Razor's personal space.

    That said, using Razor seems like a fun upgrade to the standard black blade, losing out on free enhancements in exchange for a versatile, but somewhat costly weapon.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Swaoeaeieu View Post
    I might be overlooking something here so i might as well ask. Is there anything in Steelforge to improve firearms? I have some money to spend on my gunsmoke mystic and can't find a lot of good options.
    Well there is auto loader magazine if your dm handwaves it

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    Technically, improved uncanny dodge works against everyone except for people with four more rogue (or equivalent) levels than you, which is a fairly small subset of enemies in most situations. In any case, Never Outwitted's improved uncanny dodge is either a decent (if slow-scaling) defense against such enemies, or an often-unassailable defense, depending on your build, as noted above.
    Oh, right, forgot about that!
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  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Oh! Hey! Something I'd like to see in this book is something that gets psicrystal staves (and setting stones, and companion stones) in the hands of more psionic creatures.

    Like, for instance, a staff stone that pleasantly handles the problem of "but why do that when I could two-hand my weapon" that psychic warriors, soulknives and marksmen have (though I suppose the psicrystal harness and psicrystal crown (edit: and psicrystal setting property) do that, at the expense of looking silly or adding to the value of the weapon, even if the effective bonus doesn't increase).
    Or a staff stone that plays with racial psi-like abilities like the half-giant's stomp (so maybe half-giants pay attention to their stomp, which doesn't scale well for its uses-per-day).
    Or something exceedingly like a psicrystal staff except a dragon can use it (or if dragons can already use staves, some staff stones especially appealing to psionic dragons and draconic psions).
    Last edited by Powerdork; 2015-11-16 at 03:55 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #366
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Tossed up a few more Charms. Look for Empowered, Lethality, Presence, Sigils, Spirit, and Tactics
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  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    Tossed up a few more Charms. Look for Empowered, Lethality, Presence, Sigils, Spirit, and Tactics
    Spirits could also apply to the Arcane Pool of the Magus, or have something similar as those have been established as being about equal. Might be neat for the Magus to get some love.

    EDIT: Also did we ever reach any sort of consensus about letting you add the +(2,4,6) Enhancement bonuses and Deflection/Natural Armor bonuses to items for free, akin to the Magic Item Compendium?
    Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2015-10-22 at 11:35 PM.
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    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    A few questions about the new Aegis Archetype. How many PP are used on the construct? What does the capstone ability do? I see nothing limiting the number of constructs i can have in existence at the same time. While i like the idea of a psionic summoner, especially one that can have the constructs last minutes instead of rounds, this seems a bit weak at higher levels. Other than the increased duration there is nothing this archetype can do that a psion could not already do as well.

  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Are there any plans to make non-magical enhancements for armor, or any other items for that matter? Assuming these weapon enhancements are used in a low-magic campaign, it would be nice to have some armor to balance out what the weapons are getting, such as:
    • Additional AC that doesn't stack with enchanting,
    • Maybe a limited form of fortification,
    • Maybe evasion or stalwart as very pricy enhancements,
    • Very limited damage-type DR,
    • Obviously polished and hardened,
    • Bonuses to CMD against certain maneuvers(Slippery/Greasy/Oily for grapples, for instance)
    • Staunching bleeding effects up to a point
    Last edited by neversterling; 2015-10-23 at 09:19 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Some comments on bits and pieces.


    Firesight Eyes
    "... these lenses reveal hidden foes and concealed enemies wherever they may hide. Wearing these lenses outlines all creatures within 60 ft. in dancing flames that only you can see."
    - Does this mean that creatures cannot use stealth against you?
    Steelwalker's Boots
    - What connection does the name have with their function?

    Gloves of the Akashic Sphere
    "The material from which these fine gloves are woven defies all attempt at identification"
    - so crafting them?

    Angelwing Cloak
    - 21000gp seems cheap for DR 10/Evil
    - How does this affect smite (and other effects that depend on alignment)?

    Autoloader Magazine
    - Why not also have this (or a version of it) for firearms?

    Endeca’s Gregarious Gravity Slime
    - Does applying the slime provoke an AOO?
    - What is the need to treat victims as if they have no ranks in fly skill (and force them to recalculate the skill)?
    - The description of the slime' HP is unclear.
    (1) As "No other known method can heal or replenish the gregarious gravity slime, short of limited wish and similar spells", why do use and energy damage reduce its maximum hitpoints, rather than just causing damage to the Slime?
    (2) Use and energy damage reduce it's _maximum_ hitpoints, and it regains 5 hp per day. Creatures don't normally regain hitpoints over their maximum. Again, wouldn't this be simpler if those things just caused damage.
    (3) Nothing in the description states that it is not harmed by other causes of damage, so why distingish between energy damage and other types of damage?

    Horseshoe of Hearth and Home
    - Description should state DC

    Refinement Charms
    - Maybe something for Clerics and other domain users, like an extra use of a domain power that is normally usable 3 + Wisdom modifier time per day.

    Toxin Drinking Needle
    - What happens if the targets is under the effects of multiple poisons, or is one that produces its own poison and is also under the effects of a poison? Does the user have the choice of effect?

    Warsong Instruments
    - As the cost of the Warsong Instrument is fixed, it can be cheaper than the cost of the item it creates would be. For example two masterwork Pepperpot Pistols cost 6600gp, but a warsong instrument that summons them would only cost just over 3000gp - is this deliberate? Warsong instruments also allow a pair of enchanted weapons with the same abilties at significantly less cost than buying two regular weapons - again, is this deliberate?

    Magebane Gel
    - The description states " It can be scraped off if desired, requiring the same amount of time as applying it" but does not state how long it takes to apply.

    Martial Elixirs
    - For the creation DC to scale the way magic item crafting DCs do, it would need to be 15 + Initiator Level, not 15 + Maneuver Level.

    Silvershine Bomb
    - Does not state the size of the blast

    Deadmans Winder
    - This seems a bit cheap for an item that would be more complex than the crossbow itself. A cost closer to the Swiftshot winder would seem more appropriate.

    Abyssium/Celesteel
    - It's seems ammusing that characters who fight evil would be better off wearing Abyssium armor, and characters the reverse is true for characters who fight good.

    Glass Steel
    - the costs seem pretty high for just the function of not being metal - especially when you compare it to Glassteel from Champions of Valor.

    Brave Weapons
    - +2 seems grossly overpriced, given that it only functions on a charge (to does not stack with Vital Strike etc), only applies to the first attack, and is not multipled by critical hits (etc). Compare this with Charging (MIC, +1 bonus for +2d6 damage on charge), which wasn't useful enough to see much mention at all.

    Burning Weapon / Caustic Weapon / etc
    - These looks too cheap. Compare a +1 Corrosive Weapon (~8000gp) with a +1 Burning, Caustic, Chilling, Jolting Weapon (~3600gp), and the cost difference is even more noticeable as other enchantments are added. The second is significantly more powerful and more versatile (unless the character has few free swift actions). A cost of 1000gp to 2000gp would be more reasonable.

    Fiery Explosion
    - This states "In addition, all creatures adjacent to the struck creature take fire damage equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If the wielder is a goblin, treat the weapon’s enhancement bonus as 2 higher". For a goblin wielder, is the enhancement bonus treated as +2 higher for all purposes, or just her the splash damage?

    Frosty Explosion / Shocking Explosion
    - thesw ones are missing the bonus for being a goblin. Was that meant to be removed from Fiery Explosion too?

    Grasping Weapon
    - It would be nice if the effect scaled, eg if the DC was character dependant or was repaced by a CMB check.

    Morphing Weapon
    - That seems far too expensive for it's intended fuction (unless there is a combo of the power level of Lightning Mace somewhere).

    Shining
    - As a 1/day non-scaling spell effect this would seem to make more sense as a fixed cost, rather than a +1.

    Skinning Weapon
    - Could make it clearer what "takes a penalty to its natural armor bonus (even if it doesn’t have one)" means. Does a negative bonus mean anything in the game system? If a negative bonus, works the same way as a negative modified, then the item would function the same way by simply giving an AC penalty - and this would not need the funky wording.

    Twinned Weapon
    - As written, its value changes a lot depending on the total bonus of the items.
    This can be used for savings in two types of circumstances - and its not clear whether the cost outcomes are what was intended.
    Firstly, as designed, to get two weapons to use together, without paying the full cost for two weapons. How much money can be saved this way is not simple, because the costs do not scale evenly. Two +1 Twinned weapons cost just as much as two +2 weapons, but two +4 Twinned weapons cost 100,000gp, compared to 256,000gp for two +8 weapons - the relative savings vary considerably, and fixed cost enchantments also affect it.
    Fortunatly, its not possible to pay more than non-twinned weapons would cost. However it also means that at the higher end (+6 to +9 total bonus), the twinned weapon user can get their pair of weapons cheaper than a two-handed or ranged weapon user can get a single weapon (as shown below).
    Secondly, to get a cheap weapon without intending to use the other twin. This allows weapons with +6 to +9 total bonus to be created more cheaply than normal (as shown below).

    Enhancement bonus Cost (Std x1) Cost (Std x2) Cost (using twin)
    +2 8000 16000 16000 (+1 twinned & +1 twinned)
    +3 18000 36000 26000 (+2 twinned & +1 twinned)
    +4 32000 64000 36000 (+2 twinned & +2 twinned)
    +5 50000 100000 50000 (+3 twinned & +2 twinned)
    +6 72000 144000 64000 (+3 twinned & +3 twinned)
    +7 98000 196000 82000 (+4 twinned & +3 twinned)
    +8 128000 256000 100000 (+4 twinned & +4 twinned)
    +9 162000 324000 122000 (+5 twinned & +4 twinned)
    +10 200000 400000 n/a
    (table thanks to twas_Brillig)

    Other Item Enhancements
    - Cost formula for tools should be specified. Is it enhancement^2 x 2000 as a weapon, or enhancement^2 x 1000 as armor, or some other formula?
    (I think this was answered, but the playtest doc does not reflect that)

    Can multiple enhanced tools be used on the same task? Eg a smith using an anvil of multitasking as well as a swift hammer?

    Multitasking
    - If the projects require different skills, do tools for both projects need to be multitasking? If both tasks use the same skill, can the the same tools be used for both?

    Remote
    - Normally the effect of bardic music moves with the bard. Is this effect movable? If it is movable, how is its new position determined? Does it move relative to the bard? Can it be repositioned, and if so what action does that take?
    - If the bard uses the tool to set the source of their performance, and is within 60 ft of that point, shouldn't they be able to affect themself?
    Last edited by Roog; 2015-10-25 at 05:37 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #371
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    I also have some comment son the non-magical item enhancements

    Why is the system so complex?
    - Why require multiple skills? Items using this system require the regular craft skill and also craft traps, making it more difficult for characters who rely on skill ranks to be good at it.
    - Why the extra stages to the process, first crafting the slots one at a time, and then crafting the modifiers? Magical items don't need multiple stages.
    - Why have an extra % cost for modifiers to magic items? Magic item creation doesn't require this kind of calculation.
    - why does this crafting take so long?
    With a +40 skill modifier and taking 10 (and assuming the craft DCs can be upped to exactly 50 for convenience of calculation), a crafter can produce 250gp of work per week.
    This means, for example, a Breakthrough 5 weapon will take 260 weeks to craft.
    For comparison, a spellcaster can craft up to 14000gp of magic items per week, and can have an assistant double that rate with the right feat (and that's before any boosts from the tool enhancements in this document).
    - Why have each slot hold one minor and one major modifier? Is there some reason that items shouldn't have more than 5 minor modifiers? Should polished durable arrows really require cost more than +1 arrows?


    The whole system would be a lot simpler if it worked like magical item enhancements - but able to be done by non-magic-users.
    - Just price everything as if it was a magical enhancement (either a +X modifier or a fixed price), that way the costs fit in with magic enhancements. That would also make benchmarking the costs against magic far simpler.
    - Put some rules in place for which characters can do the crafting. I would suggest skill rank requirements for individual enhancements, just like magical enhancements have spell requirements. To make this function like crafting feats there would need to be no option to up the DC to ignore the requirement. The skill required could even vary depending on the enhancement.
    - If the goal is for mundane crafters to be unable to keep on adding properties to an item endlessly - then set a scaling DC for the crafting based on how much (or how many) non-magical properties the item already has.

    That would be far simpler overall.

  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Wow, this forum really hates tabs, huh? Here's Roog's table retabulated.
    Enhancement bonus Cost (Std x1) Cost (Std x2) Cost (using twin)
    +2 8000 16000 16000 (+1 twinned & +1 twinned)
    +3 18000 36000 26000 (+2 twinned & +1 twinned)
    +4 32000 64000 36000 (+2 twinned & +2 twinned)
    +5 50000 100000 50000 (+3 twinned & +2 twinned)
    +6 72000 144000 64000 (+3 twinned & +3 twinned)
    +7 98000 196000 82000 (+4 twinned & +3 twinned)
    +8 128000 256000 100000 (+4 twinned & +4 twinned)
    +9 122000 (+5 twinned & +4 twinned) 324000 162000
    +10 200000 400000 n/a

  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Are there any plans to include some of the items not printed in Lords of Night in this project?

    Also, I love the non-magical enhancements. Not if I want to build Guts I don't have to be next to useless.

    Razor is also awesome. Definitely reminds me of Zangetsu, one of the better parts of the series by far.
    If a sword had memory, it might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.

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  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    I have a few more notes/question for the final sections.

    Prestige Classes

    Forge Lord
    Item Attunement
    - Armor, greater states "the forgelord is treated as not wearing the item whenever it would be advantageous to her". For what purposes can the forgelord count as not wearing an item? ACP? ASF? Encumberance? Wearing a second item of the same type? Magical abilities of the item that have negative effects when worn? Wearing the armor without it being noticed that the character is in armor?
    - Extend Effect - If the item does not replicate a spell or power can it be extended?

    Gravity Slime Master
    Impact
    - Table lists 5th level Impact special ability as "Impact (Paralysis)" but text states that effect is stun.
    Gravity Slime Guardian
    - It's not clear if this functions as Eidolon class feature (except where noted), or just as an Eidolon.
    - Why does the Gravity Slime Guardian have the equivalent of so many more evolution points, than a Eidolon at the same level would have?
    The prestige class can be entered at level 6.
    If we compare evolution points to a Summoner at the same level
    L6: Blindsight (4pt), Flight x2 (4pt), Gills (1pt), Improved Damage (Slam) (1pt), Magic Attacks (1pt), Reach (Slam) (1pt), and Swim (1pt). Total 13pts, Summoner has only 9 pts
    L7: Add Improved Natural Armor (1pt), base land speed improves to 30 (equivalent to extra legs, 2pt). Total 16 pts, Summoner has only 10 pts
    L8: Add Large (4pt) and Mount (1pt). Total 21 pts. Summoner has only 11 pts
    L9: Add Improved Natural Armor (1pt) and base land speed improves to 40 (equivalent to extra legs, 2pt). Total 24 pts. Summoner has only 13 pts.
    L10: Improved Strength (for a large Eidolon 4pts). Total 28 pts. Summoner has only 14 pts.
    Even by 20th level the Summoner still only has 26 pts.

    New Spells
    Flightbreaker
    - Why does this have the effect that the target "is treated as having no ranks in the Fly skill"? The other effects of the spell already stop the target from flying.

  15. - Top - End - #375
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Alright, been a while since I answered questions here, so I'll tackle what I have eyes on...

    Quote Originally Posted by neversterling View Post
    Are there any plans to make non-magical enhancements for armor, or any other items for that matter? Assuming these weapon enhancements are used in a low-magic campaign, it would be nice to have some armor to balance out what the weapons are getting, such as:
    • Additional AC that doesn't stack with enchanting,
    • Maybe a limited form of fortification,
    • Maybe evasion or stalwart as very pricy enhancements,
    • Very limited damage-type DR,
    • Obviously polished and hardened,
    • Bonuses to CMD against certain maneuvers(Slippery/Greasy/Oily for grapples, for instance)
    • Staunching bleeding effects up to a point
    Very possibly! That section is actually quite early in its life cycle, and so can be expanded fairly easily. It has made quite a splash and going into Armor could be a good thing. Just working on processing the feedback on what we have, first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    Some comments on bits and pieces.

    Gloves of the Akashic Sphere
    "The material from which these fine gloves are woven defies all attempt at identification"
    - so crafting them?

    Autoloader Magazine
    - Why not also have this (or a version of it) for firearms?

    Horseshoe of Hearth and Home
    - Description should state DC

    Refinement Charms
    - Maybe something for Clerics and other domain users, like an extra use of a domain power that is normally usable 3 + Wisdom modifier time per day.

    Warsong Instruments
    - As the cost of the Warsong Instrument is fixed, it can be cheaper than the cost of the item it creates would be. For example two masterwork Pepperpot Pistols cost 6600gp, but a warsong instrument that summons them would only cost just over 3000gp - is this deliberate? Warsong instruments also allow a pair of enchanted weapons with the same abilties at significantly less cost than buying two regular weapons - again, is this deliberate?

    Magebane Gel
    - The description states " It can be scraped off if desired, requiring the same amount of time as applying it" but does not state how long it takes to apply.

    Abyssium/Celesteel
    - It's seems ammusing that characters who fight evil would be better off wearing Abyssium armor, and characters the reverse is true for characters who fight good.

    Other Item Enhancements
    - Cost formula for tools should be specified. Is it enhancement^2 x 2000 as a weapon, or enhancement^2 x 1000 as armor, or some other formula?
    (I think this was answered, but the playtest doc does not reflect that)

    Can multiple enhanced tools be used on the same task? Eg a smith using an anvil of multitasking as well as a swift hammer?

    Multitasking
    - If the projects require different skills, do tools for both projects need to be multitasking? If both tasks use the same skill, can the the same tools be used for both?

    Remote
    - Normally the effect of bardic music moves with the bard. Is this effect movable? If it is movable, how is its new position determined? Does it move relative to the bard? Can it be repositioned, and if so what action does that take?
    - If the bard uses the tool to set the source of their performance, and is within 60 ft of that point, shouldn't they be able to affect themself?
    Alright, going to answer what I have either a hand in or definite eyes on...

    I agree that the Gloves and Abyssium/Celesteel create some interesting fluff interactions, but so it goes. I'll try to smooth things out, but particularly in the case of the materials this is an issue that is VERY common to alignment-based anything.

    Autoloader Magazine not getting a Firearm version... well, to be frank, I don't like Firearms rules at all and wished to avoid them. I might be persuaded to do something to that effect now with Arcforge on the horizon, just need to actually dive deeper into the rules on that side to make sure I don't break anything.

    Horseshoe of Hearth and Home... huh, totally missed that for some reason. I'll look it over and determine what the DC should be, will edit it into the document at some point.

    Refinement Charms for Domains, I might do. Actually, I probably will, once I look over all the domains again. I just checked Clerics off the list with the two channeling ones, but you're right.

    Warsong Instruments is actually deliberate, and that was the subject of a rather lengthy debate early on in the development process. As long as you don't mind both weapons being identically enhanced, then have fun.

    Manabane Gel, it states in a parenthetical note that the process takes one minute.

    Other Item Enhancements... alright, I'll be honest, I didn't think that section through QUITE as well as I probably should have when putting it together. It is intended to follow the Armor formula, and the interactions of everything there ended up being a LOT more prickly than I thought it would be. If I get time I'll go back through those, but it might just end up withering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    I also have some comment son the non-magical item enhancements

    Why is the system so complex?
    - Why require multiple skills? Items using this system require the regular craft skill and also craft traps, making it more difficult for characters who rely on skill ranks to be good at it.
    - Why the extra stages to the process, first crafting the slots one at a time, and then crafting the modifiers? Magical items don't need multiple stages.
    - Why have an extra % cost for modifiers to magic items? Magic item creation doesn't require this kind of calculation.
    - why does this crafting take so long?
    With a +40 skill modifier and taking 10 (and assuming the craft DCs can be upped to exactly 50 for convenience of calculation), a crafter can produce 250gp of work per week.
    This means, for example, a Breakthrough 5 weapon will take 260 weeks to craft.
    For comparison, a spellcaster can craft up to 14000gp of magic items per week, and can have an assistant double that rate with the right feat (and that's before any boosts from the tool enhancements in this document).
    - Why have each slot hold one minor and one major modifier? Is there some reason that items shouldn't have more than 5 minor modifiers? Should polished durable arrows really require cost more than +1 arrows?


    The whole system would be a lot simpler if it worked like magical item enhancements - but able to be done by non-magic-users.
    - Just price everything as if it was a magical enhancement (either a +X modifier or a fixed price), that way the costs fit in with magic enhancements. That would also make benchmarking the costs against magic far simpler.
    - Put some rules in place for which characters can do the crafting. I would suggest skill rank requirements for individual enhancements, just like magical enhancements have spell requirements. To make this function like crafting feats there would need to be no option to up the DC to ignore the requirement. The skill required could even vary depending on the enhancement.
    - If the goal is for mundane crafters to be unable to keep on adding properties to an item endlessly - then set a scaling DC for the crafting based on how much (or how many) non-magical properties the item already has.

    That would be far simpler overall.
    These are actually a current topic of discussion. You make a VERY good point about the amount of time these things would take to make under current rules, that much is unacceptable (and I can't believe I missed that when putting that together). As for the pricing system, believe it or not that's MUCH simpler than it was originally. I'm getting that comment a lot, though, so we may shift things to something much more like the magical side of things. The price adjustment to magic was meant as a compensation to get total prices to a specific desired endpoint (+10/max nonmagic ends up at a HAIR under 50% of level 20 WBL), plus an early-game discouragement to prevent super-stacking things. This section is going to get a lot of attention in the coming days, though, so stay tuned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roog View Post
    I have a few more notes/question for the final sections.

    Prestige Classes

    Forge Lord
    Item Attunement
    - Armor, greater states "the forgelord is treated as not wearing the item whenever it would be advantageous to her". For what purposes can the forgelord count as not wearing an item? ACP? ASF? Encumberance? Wearing a second item of the same type? Magical abilities of the item that have negative effects when worn? Wearing the armor without it being noticed that the character is in armor?
    - Extend Effect - If the item does not replicate a spell or power can it be extended?

    Gravity Slime Master
    Impact
    - Table lists 5th level Impact special ability as "Impact (Paralysis)" but text states that effect is stun.
    Gravity Slime Guardian
    - It's not clear if this functions as Eidolon class feature (except where noted), or just as an Eidolon.
    - Why does the Gravity Slime Guardian have the equivalent of so many more evolution points, than a Eidolon at the same level would have?
    The prestige class can be entered at level 6.
    If we compare evolution points to a Summoner at the same level
    L6: Blindsight (4pt), Flight x2 (4pt), Gills (1pt), Improved Damage (Slam) (1pt), Magic Attacks (1pt), Reach (Slam) (1pt), and Swim (1pt). Total 13pts, Summoner has only 9 pts
    L7: Add Improved Natural Armor (1pt), base land speed improves to 30 (equivalent to extra legs, 2pt). Total 16 pts, Summoner has only 10 pts
    L8: Add Large (4pt) and Mount (1pt). Total 21 pts. Summoner has only 11 pts
    L9: Add Improved Natural Armor (1pt) and base land speed improves to 40 (equivalent to extra legs, 2pt). Total 24 pts. Summoner has only 13 pts.
    L10: Improved Strength (for a large Eidolon 4pts). Total 28 pts. Summoner has only 14 pts.
    Even by 20th level the Summoner still only has 26 pts.
    Forgelord:
    -For Greater Armor Attunement, there are certain things which, while impossible to take out of RAW without insanely long and specific wording, will depend on some player sense (such as being able to see that they are wearing armor). You do still count as carrying the armor for encumbrance purposes (that much doesn't change from wearing it), but everything else is fully intended. Movement, ACP, ASF, class features, and occupied slots were all specifically considered and blessed off on, so feel free to wear some Padded armor under your Attuned Full Plate and enhance it to the nines. The Armor won't stack, but effects will.
    -As currently worded, if it doesn't replicate a spell effect of 3rd level or lower it can't be Extended. I personally don't mind other equivalents, but this is another one of those things I need GMs to use their discretion on, due to it having to take about five pages of text to properly define otherwise.

    Gravity Slime Master:
    -Chart is a relic of a change I made and forgot to update, that used to be a 1-minute paralyze until someone slapped me to my senses.
    -Just as an Eidolon, not as the class feature.
    -I hadn't actually done the math on the EP budget, but to be honest I'm not all that concerned. Testing hasn't indicated issues so far, mostly because it is forced to particular (not-quite-optimal) places and can't turn into a Kali or other such. If you have an opportunity to run around with it in a game and see otherwise, by all means let me know.

    Thanks for all the feedback, and I look forward to more of it. I'll take a look at what's been brought here, and I'll point the rest of the team at it as well to get answers for feedback on stuff they wrote
    Last edited by PsyBomb; 2015-10-31 at 04:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Could we maybe get some sort of power, spell, or fancy item that lets us recharge any sort of spell trigger item, of course requiring payment equal to or greater than the cost of the spell trigger item's charge?

    Maybe something like a power that lets you recharge spells at a 3:1 ratio for power points, and lets you recharge dorjes for a 3:2 ratio?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentaromon View Post
    A few questions about the new Aegis Archetype. How many PP are used on the construct? What does the capstone ability do? I see nothing limiting the number of constructs i can have in existence at the same time. While i like the idea of a psionic summoner, especially one that can have the constructs last minutes instead of rounds, this seems a bit weak at higher levels. Other than the increased duration there is nothing this archetype can do that a psion could not already do as well.
    I'm curious for answers on this as well, especially after the big post there. Honestly at times it just seems like it'd be better as a Psion archetype by replacing its bonus feats and maybe adapting some of the older construct-related things(such as Personal Construct perhaps). After all, once it replaced the astral suit and configuring it kind of lost a big chunk of its aegis flavoring.

  18. - Top - End - #378
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    The nonmagical item enhancements are my favorite thing to come from you guys since the tactician class, and that is saying a lot. I will definitely be experimenting with them from here on out.

    If there is one thing that is missing, however, it's the ability to combine weapons together. Imagine making any weapon a double weapon, combining two weapons to switch off between them, or even going as far as to attach a weapon to the end of a stick and give it reach. The potential for this is limitless, and I would love to see more.

    The aegis archetype is an issue, however. Dropping the number of customization points to enable astral constructs is understandable, but dropping the astral suit entirely just turns the aegis into a subpar summoner with even fewer options than the regular shaper.
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Looking at the Gravity Slime... it calls for a fortitude save to resist its effect. However, I feel that it should be given the object designation to it, else it would not work at all against undead and constructs, as well as anything else with no constitution score. Or maybe changed to a reflex save.

    Similarly, the Impact class feature of the Gravity Slime Master also needs to be modified.
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by MilleniaAntares View Post
    Looking at the Gravity Slime... it calls for a fortitude save to resist its effect. However, I feel that it should be given the object designation to it, else it would not work at all against undead and constructs, as well as anything else with no constitution score. Or maybe changed to a reflex save.

    Similarly, the Impact class feature of the Gravity Slime Master also needs to be modified.
    I'll run this past Lord_Gareth, but this is a very good point. It'll probably be done.

    In other news, since I have a long work shift today with just about nothing to actually do, I'm working a lot on Steelforge and associated stuff. There is a revision of the Nonmagical Item Enhancements chapter coming, and a new archetype of the Harbinger (the Iron Duke). I'll have them done and in the playtest doc no later than Sunday.

    EDIT: suggestion accepted. Flightbreaker and all associated abilities have received the (Object) descriptor to their saves, editing it in now.
    Last edited by PsyBomb; 2015-12-25 at 01:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    I'm playing a Promethean Alchemist from the Occult books right now and found myself really wanting the 3.x Artificer's ability to eat Constructs for their crafting juice.
    Any chance we could get an ability like that for Construct Rider and/or Promethean Alchemists?



    Additionally, the City in a Bottle has been deemed too cheesey for our real life game because of how cheap it is to buy/craft a Bag of Holding at later levels. And we are using Leadership. Leadership-in-a-Bottle might be okay. A Settlement-in-a-Bottle might be okay. The two together is just too much oomph at once for so low a cost.
    To be clear, we love the City in a Bottle thematically, we just can't bring ourselves to okay it because of how strong it is to always have a settlement right there in your hand. Trade, shelter, a place to craft really big objects (colossal animated object bodies of golem bodies for example).

    One of our players asked if a vampire could just live off the people within. Could said vampire just keep their coffin in there? Are they (the people within) immune to plague? What happens to dominated creatures taken inside who go rogue and tear up the place when the dominate wears off? Does the city have a graveyard; if so can the necromancer get corpses there? What of slain villagers and their corpses? As living creatures they can't be removed but can their corpses?

    There's just a whole lot of cans of worms that don't seem to be covered just yet. All of which are trumped by simply a) getting Leadership cheaply at higher levels and b) always having a place to sell loot and buy gear.

    Spoiler: some silliness
    Show
    Additionally, we had a neat idea. Undead or Construct minion commanding Mogaru (the two tailed PF Godzilla) via song could potentially use the Downtime rules to have Mogaru gain class levels. Would take an obscene amount of time but it is a neat idea.
    Thing is, after the City in a Bottle is planted by leveled up Mogaru the resulting city is populated by people of Mogaru's race.

    We intend to play past the Iron Gods AP and adventure in space. We very strongly considered taking Mogaru with us, finding him a remote planet, setting him and a team of Constructs/Undead who can command him via song down, and setting the scene for a far flung future planet of the PF Godzilla people.


    Edit: Maybe have the contents of the bottle be explicitly illusory in nature. Only when gp is exchanged for goods or services do things become real and only once they are taken from the bottle?
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2015-12-25 at 01:28 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #382
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    I'm playing a Promethean Alchemist from the Occult books right now and found myself really wanting the 3.x Artificer's ability to eat Constructs for their crafting juice.
    Any chance we could get an ability like that for Construct Rider and/or Promethean Alchemists?



    Additionally, the City in a Bottle has been deemed too cheesey for our real life game because of how cheap it is to buy/craft a Bag of Holding at later levels. And we are using Leadership. Leadership-in-a-Bottle might be okay. A Settlement-in-a-Bottle might be okay. The two together is just too much oomph at once for so low a cost.
    To be clear, we love the City in a Bottle thematically, we just can't bring ourselves to okay it because of how strong it is to always have a settlement right there in your hand. Trade, shelter, a place to craft really big objects (colossal animated object bodies of golem bodies for example).

    One of our players asked if a vampire could just live off the people within. Could said vampire just keep their coffin in there? Are they (the people within) immune to plague? What happens to dominated creatures taken inside who go rogue and tear up the place when the dominate wears off? Does the city have a graveyard; if so can the necromancer get corpses there? What of slain villagers and their corpses? As living creatures they can't be removed but can their corpses?

    There's just a whole lot of cans of worms that don't seem to be covered just yet. All of which are trumped by simply a) getting Leadership cheaply at higher levels and b) always having a place to sell loot and buy gear.

    Spoiler: some silliness
    Show
    Additionally, we had a neat idea. Undead or Construct minion commanding Mogaru (the two tailed PF Godzilla) via song could potentially use the Downtime rules to have Mogaru gain class levels. Would take an obscene amount of time but it is a neat idea.
    Thing is, after the City in a Bottle is planted by leveled up Mogaru the resulting city is populated by people of Mogaru's race.

    We intend to play past the Iron Gods AP and adventure in space. We very strongly considered taking Mogaru with us, finding him a remote planet, setting him and a team of Constructs/Undead who can command him via song down, and setting the scene for a far flung future planet of the PF Godzilla people.


    Edit: Maybe have the contents of the bottle be explicitly illusory in nature. Only when gp is exchanged for goods or services do things become real and only once they are taken from the bottle?
    For the first question... probably not. They aren't ours to play with.

    For the City, sure it's a place to buy and sell stuff, and it's intended to be a place where crafting downtime can run concurrently to the main adventure. I don't know how you're getting any shelter in it that you couldn't with a normal Portable Hole, though, or how the colossal constructs are getting out. At least until you get the ability to enter it fully, which is not until level 15.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    I don't wish to sound rude or bothersome, but I was curious if the one in control of most of the Astral Construct stuff is one of the people on break or anything.

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Shackel View Post
    I don't wish to sound rude or bothersome, but I was curious if the one in control of most of the Astral Construct stuff is one of the people on break or anything.
    That archetype is currently under review, and was found to be below what we wanted. Additions, tweaks, and testing are going on internally, it'll be updated in playtest once we feel it's ready for it.

    ...unless you mean the Chess Pieces of the Astral Army, in which case that's me.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    That archetype is currently under review, and was found to be below what we wanted. Additions, tweaks, and testing are going on internally, it'll be updated in playtest once we feel it's ready for it.

    ...unless you mean the Chess Pieces of the Astral Army, in which case that's me.
    Oh, the Astral Construct hype is real!

    And good job on the Chess Pieces; if the Board is included, I love the destruction method.

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Update time!

    Nonmagical item enhancements have been updated with corrected wording, some rebalancing, and most importantly a pricing scheme and creation method that mirror the magical. The two can still be used side by side on the same weapons, and no longer interfere with each other when doing so.

    The Iron Baron archetype has been added to the document as well. Channeling rust and neglect, he exploits flaws in enemy equipment (even natural weapons!) to shatter them into uselessness. Eventually, when he breaks magical items, he can direct the forces released into destructive blasts.

    Feedback is always welcome (and very much needed!)
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Iron Baron
    I love the image this archetype evokes. I can see it making a great dark, grimy fantasy villain or antihero (so basically it fits with the best of the Harbinger archetypes, in that regard). Mechanically I'm going to need some convincing, though. (obviously any of these buffs have an implicit "as long as it balances out with the rest of the class").

    Aura of Rust: Can the Iron Baron designate any number of creatures to exclude from their aura in the same action? Can you exclude weapons and armor separately, to for instance give yourself and your allies the benefits of Disposable and Splintering weapons without risking their armor? Frankly I'm not sure how significant a debuff this actually is, given the chance of debuff is a flat 5% per hit. Weirdly, fragile items are not actually an easier to sunder, which would make this a lot more useful -- even just reducing hardness would make sense here, but no.

    The fragile weapon feature notes "Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description." This seems to mean that masterwork and magical weapons can have the fragile feature without suffering its effects, which is incredibly pedantic but I bring up only to circumvent the inevitable arguments that are going to arise if I don't.

    Item Crush: Is the idea that an Iron Baron is capable of repairing their own equipment, and so doesn't mind breaking it to take advantage of the bonus feats here? Are they supposed to be using Aura of Rust to give their weapons the fragile property? The benefits seem kind of mediocre for something that cripples a weapon until you can repair it. I guess for replacing only part of a class feature they shouldn't be amazing, but what I'm concerned about is whether they're worth using at all. 1d4 bleed isn't amazing, and while auto-confirming criticals is pretty nice, 1) you need to crit to begin with, and 2) it looks like you can't use it with a weapon that's already broken. Even aside from the penalty for using a broken weapon, and the risk of outright destroying a weapon that you keep using after it's broken, these feats are only useful once per repair cycle. On top of that, I'm not sure innately fragile weapons are all that good, which means you need to be subjecting yourself to your own Aura of Rust and risking your armor.

    Repair: Make Whole requires you to have twice an item's caster level to restore magical effects to a destroyed magic item, Greater Make Whole needs you to equal its caster level, but comes online quite late. Mending doesn't help that at all. All of these require ten minutes to cast, meaning you still can't fix your main weapon in a fight after using either of the feats from Item Crush.

    Splinters of Neglect and Aura of Rust seem like they would seriously complicate loot for a party with an Iron Baron. Even assuming a DM works to correct towards WBL to account for destroyed items, you're making work for the DM to accommodate the archetype. This may deserve a sidebar so that everyone involved knows what they're getting into to support what is undoubtedly an interesting and cinematic playstyle. (It's also probably worth noting that if someone playing this archetype is an *******, starting at level 8 they can make their friends stuff explode for no great reason, but that's not really any worse than any character with AoE, so...)

    I'm not sure how I feel about sundering on a Harbinger, since it means not nailing that same enemy with one of your maneuvers. Then again, broken equipment can't be saved out of, broken weapons are fairly annoying, and broken armor is a good deal less effective at keeping further Strikes off. It just seems weird that you could be very good at smashing peoples' weapons apart, but not getting anything special despite being the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, Improper Maintenance.

    If you wanted an option to more dramatically change Grim News, the ability to appear in a burst of rust and dust next to anyone with broken armor/weapons could be pretty dramatic. Alternatively, you could have all the existing movement options remain, but somewhat slower unless they, say, ended with a sunder attempt on an enemy. Or something else suitably dramatic and action economy-y.

    I'm not sure what the balance point on this would be, but it might be interesting to tie some maneuver augmentation to the fragile weapon stuff. You have that a little with the Knife to the Soul-esque Decay Body, but I can imagine porting a lot of the Animus augments from the Mystic.

    Again, not sure what the balance point would be, but being able to repair weapons (or temporarily treat a weapon as non-broken) on some trigger would be both incredibly useful and in keeping with the Harbinger as a class that does things to fuel their ability to do more things. Straight-up saying "if you would recover maneuvers, you can instead treat your weapon as non-broken for X time" might be too much (depending on what all they can do by breaking their weapon) given Harbingers are very good at recovering maneuvers for that same reason. There's some potential for an eye for an eye mechanic where breaking someone else's weapon fixes yours.

    None of these abilities effect fragile armor at all, leaving as sort of an afterthought. Something to reduce saves might be interesting, or generally more triggers for breaking someone's armor.

    None of these abilities effect casters at all, which isn't in and of itself a terrible thing. I'm not even sure how to tie the theme of specifically decaying equipment to something that effects casters aside from maybe making wands and things explode in their faces, or...I don't know, spoiling material components. Regardless, not every class should be designed to handle every situation, as an initiator the Baron has some good options regardless, I just figured it was a good idea to point out a pretty significant enemy the archetype doesn't specifically help with.

  28. - Top - End - #388
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by twas_Brillig View Post
    All of these require ten minutes to cast, meaning you still can't fix your main weapon in a fight after using either of the feats from Item Crush.
    Actually, SLAs only take a standard, regardless of base casting time. It came up when I was making a Mythic character and wanted to snag Enlarge Person as an SLA on my intelligent sword.
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Iron Baron
    Not what I had expected with the name...but still awesome. Anyways
    Splinters of Neglect
    In addition, whenever a magic item gains the broken condition or is destroyed while under the effects of his aura of rust ability, it liberates its energies in a destructive blast. The iron baron can make a ranged touch attack against a creature or object within close range (25 feet + 5 feet per 2 caster levels of the destroyed item) as a free action, even if it isn’t his turn. If it hits, it deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the item. to deal 1d6 damage per caster level of the item. This damage is not subject to any resistances or damage reduction.
    Shoudln't this also account for hardness when targetting a weapon/armor/construct if directed to such, or not intended for it to do so?
    Last edited by Tuvarkz; 2015-12-27 at 06:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Actually, SLAs only take a standard, regardless of base casting time. It came up when I was making a Mythic character and wanted to snag Enlarge Person as an SLA on my intelligent sword.
    Oh, duh. That is a lot better, then. Definitely viable to have weapon-breaking abilities be once/fight once you get that ability (since a round of downtime is guaranteed, 10 minutes may be dicier). Attack action + standard to inflict 1d4 bleed is...not great, even so. Confirm a critical...maybe? What sort of damage boost is that likely to be? Given maneuvers explicitly don't multiply and all. Are more Harbingers built to cause damage directly or to debuff and disable? Unless they have stuff that triggers on crit, shouldn't they be more interested in using more Strikes/sunders than confirming a crit?

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