The Good, the Bad and the Monk, a 5e Monk guide

[Davidbusta88]

DM got back to me with a catfolk race he wants to use as a base, but loved the idea of being able to build my own subraces within.
The race as its described in the errata he found has the following stats.

+2 ability score increase on wisdom.
Base walking speed of 35.
Dark vision up to 60 feet in dim light.
Proficiency in stealth and acrobatics.
Claws deal 1d4 of unarmed damage.

With those as a base, I thought of 2 subraces to add to the suhraces that were included with that build.

The one that I feel could be a fun monk build I have listed below. Please any thoughts if it would be a good idea or if I built it too strong, I'm all ears. Thanks

Subrace- Pantherinae

Ability score increase +1 to dex

Size - restricted to small and medium only

Feline nimbleness - may move through the same space occupied by another creature.

Pouncing stance - may take a free action to drop to all 4s. Movement speed increases to 40. May not be performed with a weapon drawn or while wearing armor exceeding light armor. Melee attacks against you are taken with advantage while in this stance.

Pouncing strike- While in pouncing stance, may lash out at 1 target with both claws.

Pouncing Lunge - While in pouncing stance, you attempt to knock a target prone. Target must pass a strength check. On a fail, target is prone and suffers 1d8. Targets larger than you have advantage on strength check.

[RakiReborn]

You are new to the Forum i think, but if you want feedback to your homebrew, i'd suggest you make a thread under the Homebrew section of the forum with the 5th ed tag. This way this thread stays for what it was intended (the Monk guide), and you have more chance to get feedback from experienced homebrewers ;)

[Davidbusta88]

You are new to the Forum i think, but if you want feedback to your homebrew, i'd suggest you make a thread under the Homebrew section of the forum with the 5th ed tag. This way this thread stays for what it was intended (the Monk guide), and you have more chance to get feedback from experienced homebrewers ;)

I apologize. Started the convo by asking about how a catfolk build would fit into the ranking provided in the OP. When they asked which build specifically, as there was no official one provided, I kinda got side tracked and made my own.
I can relocate it to a new thread.

[Birdperson1]

So I've had this multiclass idea for a level 20. Or requires getting creative with a back story and optionally one magical item. Aarakocra Monk 15 Open hand or sun monk, Wizard 5 bladesinging or divination. If the DM oks it, headband of intellect Would that be stupid? Is that giving up too much in the monk class? I've thought a lot on it but I need to be sure I thought of everything.

[RickAllison]

So I've had this multiclass idea for a level 20. Or requires getting creative with a back story and optionally one magical item. Aarakocra Monk 15 Open hand or sun monk, Wizard 5 bladesinging or divination. If the DM oks it, headband of intellect Would that be stupid? Is that giving up too much in the monk class? I've thought a lot on it but I need to be sure I thought of everything.

What are you trying to accomplish with it? As a multiclass, it works fine (you miss out on Quivering Palm and some nice monk abilities at higher levels, but you get what are arguably the most important), but it might be awkward to reach the point where it feels that way. Is this for dropping in at a higher level, or are you okay with the concept not being fully realized for a while?

[Birdperson1]

So I've had this multiclass idea for a level 20. Or requires getting creative with a back story and optionally one magical item. Aarakocra Monk 15 Open hand or sun monk, Wizard 5 bladesinging or divination. If the DM oks it, headband of intellect Would that be stupid? Is that giving up too much in the monk class? I've thought a lot on it but I need to be sure I thought of everything.

What are you trying to accomplish with it? As a multiclass, it works fine (you miss out on Quivering Palm and some nice monk abilities at higher levels, but you get what are arguably the most important), but it might be awkward to reach the point where it feels that way. Is this for dropping in at a higher level, or are you okay with the concept not being fully realized for a while?

What I would most want is haste without having to depend on a wizard. There's this idea I have of making my armor class over thirty. Let's say you find a headband of intelligence so that your INT is 19. Then when you make it to 14 or 15 you dip two levels into bladesinger and get the "add INT to AC for 1 minute" plus some other things. At that level, a monks armor should be 19 then add the +4 from the bladesong, then as a reaction cast shield, bam you have an AC of 29, 31 after the next adility score improv and have haste at wizard 5. Along with an extra attack and advantage on Dex throws.

There's also absorb elements in case you fail a Dexter save from a spell only taking a quarter of the damage. There's also the cantrips from sword coast guide that require a melee weapon attack, which adds a another die or two to the attack which is nice. I'm sure there's other things but those are my mains.

If I was only considering dipping 2 into wizard, I wouldn't really need to ask. But since I'm suggesting 5 it's a another thing. Having quivering palm is pretty sweet as well as empty body. Then there's d10 unarmed and additional movement, more points.

Is there more to gain from one or the other? Or are do they both work about the same?

I suppose my question comes from someone who is less experienced in D&D and I would like to know from an experienced viewpoint.

[MeeposFire]

What I would most want is haste without having to depend on a wizard. There's this idea I have of making my armor class over thirty. Let's say you find a headband of intelligence so that your INT is 19. Then when you make it to 14 or 15 you dip two levels into bladesinger and get the "add INT to AC for 1 minute" plus some other things. At that level, a monks armor should be 19 then add the +4 from the bladesong, then as a reaction cast shield, bam you have an AC of 29, 31 after the next adility score improv and have haste at wizard 5. Along with an extra attack and advantage on Dex throws.

There's also absorb elements in case you fail a Dexter save from a spell only taking a quarter of the damage. There's also the cantrips from sword coast guide that require a melee weapon attack, which adds a another die or two to the attack which is nice. I'm sure there's other things but those are my mains.

If I was only considering dipping 2 into wizard, I wouldn't really need to ask. But since I'm suggesting 5 it's a another thing. Having quivering palm is pretty sweet as well as empty body. Then there's d10 unarmed and additional movement, more points.

Is there more to gain from one or the other? Or are do they both work about the same?

I suppose my question comes from someone who is less experienced in D&D and I would like to know from an experienced viewpoint.

Personally I would think its madness hurts it a bit and what you are getting is so late I would personally not think it worth it. I mean adding wizard means you are going to have to have 13 int, and for this concept you still want to max wis and dex. Further being still in melee con si still important. That is a lot of stats to juggle and you have to find a specific item to make it work ok. For me that is way too many issues.

Booming blade damage is ok but not great (a bit better if you can force the extra damage but since you need so man stats mobile is probably out and that is not a for sure way of getting that bonus damage either). Further it only allows one attack which means less chances at stunning which is usually the monks best tactic.

If you really want AC you could just ask for bracers of armor. It only gives +2 but it is always there compared to your +4 twice a short rest. Combine that fact with the extra monk abilities (or other classes that are easier to integrate with the monk class) and I think generally that is a better option unless wizardry is a fluff thing you really want.

[Citan]

What I would most want is haste without having to depend on a wizard. There's this idea I have of making my armor class over thirty. Let's say you find a headband of intelligence so that your INT is 19. Then when you make it to 14 or 15 you dip two levels into bladesinger and get the "add INT to AC for 1 minute" plus some other things. At that level, a monks armor should be 19 then add the +4 from the bladesong, then as a reaction cast shield, bam you have an AC of 29, 31 after the next adility score improv and have haste at wizard 5. Along with an extra attack and advantage on Dex throws.

There's also absorb elements in case you fail a Dexter save from a spell only taking a quarter of the damage. There's also the cantrips from sword coast guide that require a melee weapon attack, which adds a another die or two to the attack which is nice. I'm sure there's other things but those are my mains.

If I was only considering dipping 2 into wizard, I wouldn't really need to ask. But since I'm suggesting 5 it's a another thing. Having quivering palm is pretty sweet as well as empty body. Then there's d10 unarmed and additional movement, more points.

Is there more to gain from one or the other? Or are do they both work about the same?

I suppose my question comes from someone who is less experienced in D&D and I would like to know from an experienced viewpoint.

Hi!

Well, if you are sure you will get a Headband providing 19 Intelligence not too late in your game, then this is a good build. Note though that until you get it, you will probably have lesser defenses than a normal Monk because you have to crank Intelligence up to 13 in addition to the usual Dex (armor, initiative, attack), Con (important for all, EVEN MORE important for you to maintain Haste) and Wis (Stunning Strike, AC, saves).
Although Bladesinger will somewhat compensate...

Let's say you take a Human Monk, with point buy + racial 10 STR / 16 DEX / 14 CON / 14 INT / 15 WIS / 9 CHA

AC: either Unarmored 15 (10+3+2) or Mage Armor 16 (13+3). +2 from Bladesong, and occasional Shield.
Once you take Resilient: Wisdom, you get a decent DC for your Stunning Strike and Open Hand free abilities.

If you want to balance as much as possible this is the best way to go imo.

Another way to go is to drop the whole WIS part (although why go Open Hand Monk then, or any Monk at all) and INT part to focus on Dexterity and Constitution. But in that case, I would rather advise at least Diviner Wizard, Lucky and another Monk archetype: you still get Haste, Lucky and Diviner will help land Stunning Strike when you really need it, and you can otherwise spend your Ki on defense (class feature), utility (Shadow) or damage/utility (4E).

But, honestly, if the main reason of multiclassing is Haste, the best choice by far is Grassland Land Druid.
1. You get Haste... Along with plenty other good spells, including Conjure Animals, Faerie Fire, Healing Words, Goodberry, etc.
2. It's only WIS dependant so you don't aggravate your Madness.
3. You get Shillelagh and nice cantrips so you can boost your Wisdom first, so in fact you reduce somewhat your Madness, improving your overall efficiency (Stunning Strike, FoB effects).
4. Because you are no more MAD than usual, or even a bit less, it will be easy to cope with the lesser amount of ASI, and you can easily grab Resilient: Constitution or Warcaster along the way to help with Haste.

I would even recommend you to sacrifice one more level of Monk to dip Forge Cleric 1 (if allowed) or Life Cleric 1, and dip it early. This way you get a great use of your concentration ASAP, which helps you be WIS-only dependent, and you even get to still have Shield.

Progression:
1. Monk.
2. Monk.
3. Arcane Cleric, to get Bless and Sacred Flame (nice ranged cantrip).
4. Monk.
5. Monk. +2 WIS or Resilient: Wisdom depending on starting stat.
6. Monk. Because you want to get Extra Attack ASAP.
7. Druid. So now you can get Shillelagh and switch to it, you get pull control with Thorn Whip and ranged attack with Produce Flame. The additional spell slots can be used on Shield (Forge), Goodberries (Life) or more Bless.
8. Monk. Because it's important now to get magical Strikes.
9. Monk. Because Evasion is great.
10. Druid. Now you aim for Haste.
11. Druid (Invisibility! Pass Without Trace!)
12. Druid
13.Druid. Now you have Haste.
You can finish Monk, with Diamond Soul (proficiency in all saves) as a capstone, not the worse to have. ;)

[kelticpete]

forgive my ignorance..or not.

but what is MAD?

used a few times as acronym

[Fishyninja]

Multi-Ability Dependent

Normally reserved for characters that need to utilise multiple stats. For a Monk it is Dex for attack, Initiative and AC. Wisdom for Spell Saves and AC and Constitution for Health.

[HPisBS]

Man, now there's even more archetypes to evaluate. In addition to the Sun Soul and Long Death, there's also Tranquility and Kensei. I'm not too impressed with the Kensei, but Tranquility seems pretty great. If the OP doesn't update his post, I may do my own guide for all of them.

Tranquility basically gets the Open Hand's lvl 6 and 11 features at lvl 3 -- but upgraded to what they should've been for the Open Hand from the start! To counterbalance this, Tranquility's lvl 6 and 11 features only exist to prevent combat (or perhaps delay it while your allies get better situated). I'm also not too thrilled with the fact that the capstone is a once / rest ability that can only be used after an enemy downs someone - and then only on that enemy. But even so, it can still be fairly powerful.

The monk I'm playing has already meditated his way through a transition from Open Hand to Tranquility (The Non-Aggression Principle was already built into my character.)

[Specter]

A good guide. Some things you can improve:

- The three dump stats (STR, INT, CHA) should have the same rating (red), as long as you explain what you miss with each. Low STR means low athletics and caryying capacity, low INT means low knowledge checks and low CHA means low face potential. If people are ok with that, they can always start with 8-15-15-8-15-8.
- Any race that doesn't boost DEX shouldn't be blue. CON and WIS are both great, but as a monk you should always be hitting dudes and dodging blows, and starting with a 15 in it is not an option.
- Some features lack description, as the general monk tactics. It's important to mention that monks are the heaviest bonus-action users, and how to strategize upon that with ki and kiless features. Once you get Deflect Missiles, you don't have to fear single archers anymore, as long as you save your reaction. And so on.
- Comparing the subclasses to one another the way you did is not accurate and even if it were, it's way too simplistic. 'Open Hand > Shadow > 4Em' is not enough. Open Hand gives you the most in terms of melee strategy and party coordination. Shadow gives you amazing scout potential and amazing dodginess outside of daylight, along with more multiclass potential. 4 Elements is not pigeonholed to punching people, being able to deal different damage types and attacking at range and many enemies. Only analyzing white-room scenarios doesn't cut it in a game as varied as this one.

[Gydian]

I've read mane class analysis and many monk analysis. I like yours the best. Have you thought about updating it to include scag and the other new stuff? Maybe even ua?

[polymphus]

I've read mane class analysis and many monk analysis. I like yours the best. Have you thought about updating it to include scag and the other new stuff? Maybe even ua?

OP if you choose to do this, here's the new stuff:

UA

Way of the Drunken Master
(pretty schizophrenic archetype, decent nova potential)
Way of the Kensei
(use martial weapons! Get a d10 shortbow!)
Way of Tranquility
(some social stuff, some healing, some support magic)

SCAG

Way of the Long Death
(Show those Paladins how to tank)
Way of the Sun Soul
(HADOUKEN! Makes the monk more of a ranged skirmisher)

Volo's

Most of the races would make pretty terrible monks, with some notable exceptions

Kenku: Wood Elf stats, extra proficiencies that make a great shadow monk.
Tabaxi: +2 Dex is amazing, +1CHA less so. Good proficiencies for a Shadow Monk, like the kenku. Darkvision and Feline Agility rounds out a decent monk race.
Goblin: it's weird how good this is for a monk. +2 Dex and a Con bonus is nothing to sneeze at, and you get the best part of Cunning Action without having to do a rogue dip. Fury of the Small hypothetically lets you deal 35 damage in a single punch and that's pretty much the monk-est thing ever.
Kobold: a weird choice. +2 Dex is good, but you can get it elsewhere. -2 Str isn't gonna hurt you too badly (you're a monk -- just Dex it) and Pack Tactics is amazing for a monk but that sunlight sensitivity is a problem. I'm not sure how grovelling for your life works when you're meant to be a serene martial artist but I'd like to see somebody try.

[polymphus]

Alrighty, let's break down some monk stuff that isn't in the OP.

SCAG Archetypes

Way of the Long Death
A very powerful archetype that turns the monk into a solid tank. Combined with Unarmored Defence, it's an almost-guarantee that when you do get hit, it won't hurt too much.

Touch of Death
Your meat and potatoes. Always have a buffer of temporary HP.

Hour of Reaping
Could potentially rate sky blue since it's an AoE fear spell that costs nothing, but it uses your action and the monk's action economy is already rather overcrowded. Some nice crowd control, though, and makes you even harder to kill.

Mastery of Death
If you have ki left, you can't die. Amazing. Pair it with Diamond Soul and Touch of Death, you're pretty much indestructible.

Touch of the Long Death
Objectively worse than Quivering Palm -- costs more, does less damage, can't be detonated remotely, doesn't fit in with the rest of the Tradition. Still a decent Nova but there are better options.

---

Way of the Sun Soul
Very cool flavour, mediocre gameplay. Almost seems like an attempt at a revised Four Elements and fulfils a similar gameplay role.

Radiant Sun Bolt
It's your punch, but with a better damage type and a 30 foot range. You can only get your bonus action attacks if you (Sun Bolt) flurry but hey, you can still flurry. Best part of the Tradition, but it's all downhill from here. Basically the only thing saving the archetype from a purple rating.

Searing Arc Strike
At lvl6, you get a 1st level wizard spell that costs ki. Forgive me for not cheering. It's pretty cool that it's a bonus action and you can pump it with extra ki, but it's worse than the spells Shadow Monk gets at lvl3.

Searing Sunburst
Oh hey, it's Searing Arc Strike except using flaming sphere, and at lvl11. Okay, that's sort of a lie -- it doesn't cost any resources, it deals radiant damage, and it has an acceptable AoE. It doesn't cost ki unless you want to pump it up, but by level 11 you're gonna need to pump it up or it's basically worthless. By this point, your party wizard is hurling out bigger 8d6 blasts like it ain't no thing. You could do more damage by punching and/or throwing hadoukens.

Sun Shield
Other archetypes get better auras at a much lower level, but it's still nothing to sniff at. There's some situational but powerful uses for what is essentially a Light Cantrip+, and free damage is free damage. Kinda sucks that it's restricted by requiring a reaction -- 5-10 extra radiant per turn, only when you get hit is not that great.

---

Unearthed Arcana

Way of the Drunken Master
Mobile and good at dealing with hordes. It's not bad per-se, but it competes with Open Palm for a lot of the same ground and it just isn't as good.

Drunken Technique
Cool. Allows powerful hit-and-run attacks BUT hampered by its ki requirement and worse than Open Hand Technique for the same cost.

Tipsy Sway
Archetype features that are once per rest need to be pretty powerful and this ... isn't. Requires you to be fighting two people at once, and even then is only useful 1) if one of them misses and 2) if the attack that missed was powerful to begin with.

Drunkard's Luck
Pair with Diamond Soul, never fail a saving throw again. Requires you to decide before rolling and has a ki cost, so you need to save it for important rolls.

Intoxicated Frenzy
Well damn, that's a lot of punches. Tied in with your Flurry of Blows but if you've got to lvl17 you've got ki falling out of your eyes. Like your tipsy sway, only really useful if you're fighting a large group of enemies but much more useful in those circumstances.

---

Way of the Kensei
This one is almost certainly getting an official release in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, which is cool. A nice mix of offence and defence, with some ki-hungry nova potential. Who doesn't want a monk with a battleaxe?

Path of the Kensei
Greatly increases what counts as a 'monk weapon', which can lead to some cool flavour. Also allows you to pack a shortbow that scales with your martial arts table, greatly extending your range. Gets worse as you level up, since a monk shortsword becomes identical to a longsword at lvl11, but still a lot of fun. Allows for hilarious weapons like a d10 blowgun or whip. The parry and bonus-action-bow-buff are just gravy.

One with the Blade
Burn ki for extra damage. Combine with flurry of blows for some crazy nova. Magical weapons is nice too.

Sharpen the Blade
Remember when I said you could get some crazy nova going? Well this is more of that. The ki-to-damage cost sucks, though. Uses your valuable bonus action, and often it would just be better to punch twice.

Unerring Accuracy
Do I really need to explain why this is good? It's essentially no-cost advantage, once per turn.

---

Way of Tranquility
Cool in theory, pretty disappointing in terms of application. Very MAD, seems weaker than just doing a 2-dip into bard or paladin and those weren't amazing multiclasses.

Path of Tranquility
Better than the Open Palm's 11th-level feature (repeatable, and you control the casting), and significantly earlier. Even for free though, Sanctuary just isn't a great spell.

Healing Hands
It's the Paladin's Lay on Hands with a larger pool. It was good at 5xlevel, it's great at 10xlevel.

Emissary of Peace
A free charisma skill proficiency and advantage on some persuasion checks. Cool I guess, if you pumped your charisma.

Douse of the Flames of War
"Oh look this seems cool and ... automatically succeeds if it's missing any of its hit points." It's a garbage Charm Person, but at least it doesn't cost ki? I'd expect more at lvl11 than a slightly buffed Friends cantrip.

Anger of a Gentle Soul
Cool when you get it, but the trigger condition is reliant on your party doing something horribly wrong. Better if your party sucks or your DM is particularly cruel.

[Spacehamster]

For a very specific build pole arm master becomes blue, 1 fighter /19 monk with dueling style, makes your attacks at 2nd level (1fighter/1monk) 1d6 + 5 and 1d4 + 5 bonus action the + 2 to damage "upgrades" your d6 and d4 die to equal of d10 and d8 respectively. And you can ofc still do a flurry for two bonus attacks with your body instead when needed, gets even more powerful if you get your hands on a good magic staff. :)

[werescythe]

This thread really needs an update. A lot of races have been added and along with racial feats.

[redtwister666]

Creating two Monks for a game I am joining. One is Aarakocra Way of the Long Death, but I haven't talked to the GM since I got the invite and they can be pretty busted. So I also made a Ghostwise Halfling Way of the Open Hand, but I am not sure it is much less broken

I would love to see some updates to this from live players. Monk seems much better as a class, despite MAD, than it was in any previous edition, and this makes me happy.