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Thread: will saves

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default will saves

    hello :D


    The situation.

    I wan inside an in with my party and because we have a bounty on our heads i choose not to take any chances.
    So i caste a silent,still detect magic: nothing
    Then i proceed into casting a silent, still detect thoughts
    All costumers failed the saving throw expect one. that person then attacked me :S
    My DM argued that if a character succeeds a will save , he has knowledge of the "attack in his mind" and the person responsible for it.

    Since that makes no sense to me i am asking your opinion. Is my DM right ???

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Jan 2014

    Default Re: will saves

    By RAW? No, that's bull****. By the rules, you don't even necessarily know you had to make a Will save. I'm sure there's a way to know if you're targeted by a spell like that, but it's not the default. That said, if your DM has made that a houserule, you can argue it, but if they don't want to budge, you either have to live with it or leave.

    If you decide to live with it, though, make sure to call him on it if he ever breaks that rule himself.


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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: will saves

    "A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells."

    At least in pathfinder...

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Jun 2015

    Default Re: will saves

    Well it is true since the GM ruled so(even if the manuals said the opposite it is pretty much an advantage for the players and so keep that great gift this ruling made by the GM is in your favor for many occasions because you see npcs often really like casting mental spells on you)

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: will saves

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
    Your DM is kind of right, in that he would feel a hostile force or a tingle, and would know a spell was cast on him and it didn't work. However, unless you were the only option for a spell to come from, he shouldn't have known it came from you.

    Edit: Swordsage'd.
    Last edited by erok0809; 2015-07-27 at 10:07 PM.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Where did you start yours?

    The main character (solo campaign) heard about the upcoming execution of his brother for murder, and was on his way to the Count's Keep to stop or delay it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Banned
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    Apr 2013

    Default Re: will saves

    On a semi-related note, can you actively tell if a spell someone casts on you is Will negates [Harmless] versus Will negates?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: will saves

    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    On a semi-related note, can you actively tell if a spell someone casts on you is Will negates [Harmless] versus Will negates?
    You can, by making an appropriate Spellcraft check (DC 15+spell level if you can see/hear somatic/verbal components or DC 25+spell level after rolling the save).

    For the OP's question:
    The one guy who succeeded on their saving throw feels that a spell was cast on them (and failed). They can then try to identify the spell (but not the caster, as there where no visible signs of the casting) with a DC 27 Spellcraft check.
    Of course, there might be other ways of identifying both the spell ("Hey guys, that dude likes to wear pink underw...I shouldn't have said that!") or the caster (the guy who just entered through the door is a pretty obvious suspect)

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    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: will saves

    What were you wearing? The guy in a dress covered in moons and stars and holding a staff could be a pretty obvious suspect, not to mention miscellaneous black mage odors.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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