How evil is this character?

[Frosty]

Background: the character, a tiefling, is born into a monotheistic island-nation. Currently, almost the entirety of the "civilized" part of the island worships one and only one deity. It is ostensibly a Lawful Good religion, but the church has done or condoned many morally questionable things over the years. The church and th current ruling dynasty are very close, and it is actually an unstated goal of the church to keep the current dynasty in power (because the king and the previous kings in the dynasty have supported church policy completely) despite its official non-political stance.

The church/monarchy treats its people very well. Even the poor don't starve. Disease is unheard of as priestly orders dedicated to healing tend to the sick mostly for free. However, it doesn't treat all people equally well. The island nation used to worship your standard pantheon of gods. Ever since this new dynasty took over, the state/church barely tolerates other religions. For example, dwarves that insist that Moradin had a hand in th creation of the cosmos are asked to retract their statements and acknowledge the state's official deity as the only one who created the world. The dwarves that refused were thrown in jail for heresy. there are various native peoples with their own rich Druidic traditions (think Native American types) that have always been at odds with the government because of religious intolerance (and the fact that the government has historically used troops to forcibly take land from these "uncivilized" people).

The worst part? A few decades ago, in order to cover up a huge scandal that might weaken the dynasty's political power, the newly ascended (at the time) king falsely blamed another faith for the bad policies and decision-making of the previous king, citing witchcraft and black magic. Using that as an excuse, he, with the church's full support and backing, started a pogrom against this other faith, seizing all of their properties, killing any priests of this other faith (usually burnt at the stake), and force the followers to either convert or burn as well. Many times the adherents of this faith just killed during the raids on the properties, with the inquisition citing, "resisting arrest" from those killed.

The pogroms have basically stopped once the faith had all been destroyed, but certai. Races like tieflings still get treated as garbage. It is in this backdrop that the tiefling that nothing less than a complete revolution is in order, after trying (and failing) to work within the system. When he tried to whistle blow in the resisting arrest shenanigans, he was out in jail and sentences to death. His goals are to remove the current monarchy from power (become king himself), and destroy enough of the church leadership to install his own people who would teach a gentler, more fair version of the state faith, in addition to enforcing full freedom of worship throughout the nation, and even start cultural exchange programs with the barbarians. In pursuit of this goal, he has hired foreign mercenary armies to fight, has used bio-terrorism to spread a debilitating disease to major population centers in order to weaken the peoples' faith in th government (this is after taking care of the priests of course), and has been generally willing to kill innocents.

Most of the peasants and even soldiery are decent folk who have known nothing other than what the state religion teaches them, and most of them probably have the Good alignment. This character is willing to, but doesn't like killing innocents. He tries to minimize damage and death above and beyond what he considers the minimum necessary to topple the government. In fact he will go out of his way to save people from his fellow evil adventurers working with him, if he deems the attacks as purely for revenge/fun and not a necessary part of the revolution. He gives respect and fair treatment to those enemies that actually treat other races and religions well. Again, once he gains the throne, he plans on turning the nation into a better utopia than it was before, free of all the bigotry of the previous dynasty.

This is a lot of backstory, but, in general, what alignment would you give this character, and in a rating of 1 to 10 how evil would this character he?

[BowStreetRunner]

Have you ever taken one of those online alignment quizzes? They ask you a bunch of questions, and each response is weighted toward one alignment or another. At the end, the system tallies up the total responses and gives you an overall alignment. Even though you answered some questions in a way that conflicted with the final result, it still pegs you according to the alignment you most closely resemble.

Your character description is a little like that. While the description above includes elements that could be construed as lawful, chaotic, good, evil, and neutral, depending on your point of view, I would say your character is mostly chaotic (pro-freedom) but a bit more neutral than good or evil (actions not driven by malice or cruelty, but not above harming innocents).

Of course, there are lots of ways to interpret these things. One thing those quizzes never do is ask you to weight your answers based on what is most important to you. One character might feel a great deal of remorse over the harm of innocents, but feels it is a necessary sacrifice for the greater good. Another might just feel his cause is the more worthy, and too bad if anyone gets in the way. It was the paragraph where you stated the "character is willing to, but doesn't like killing innocents" that made me feel he is not quite evil, although I would not go so far as to call him good.

[Morcleon]

I'd put them firmly at Chaotic Neutral. Does morally questionable things (chemical warfare against civilians), disregards the kingdom's laws, but otherwise is a pretty good person. With 1 being paladin of honor/freedom, 5 being neutral, and 10 being paladin of tyranny/slaughter, I'd put him at about 4. He doesn't do nearly enough bad things to justify having an evil alignment, but does enough bad things that he isn't good.

As for the kingdom itself, I'd put them as Lawful Evil. While the religion itself is Lawful Good, it's been twisted to become Lawful Evil in practice.

[OldTrees1]

Let me start off that the character seems to have some quite noble and sympathetic end goals. It is only the means that are questionable.

In pursuit of this goal, he has hired foreign mercenary armies to fight, has used bio-terrorism to spread a debilitating disease to major population centers in order to weaken the peoples' faith in the government (this is after taking care of the priests of course), and has been generally willing to kill innocents.

This character is willing to, but doesn't like killing innocents. He tries to minimize damage and death above and beyond what he considers the minimum necessary to topple the government. In fact he will go out of his way to save people from his fellow evil adventurers working with him, if he deems the attacks as purely for revenge/fun and not a necessary part of the revolution. He gives respect and fair treatment to those enemies that actually treat other races and religions well.

This is a lot of backstory, but, in general, what alignment would you give this character, and in a rating of 1 to 10 how evil would this character he?

There are some clarifying questions I could ask(is the disease a lethal or non lethal disease?) but I believe this character is either LE or LN(depending on unspecified details/unspecified ratios). So I would probably rank it as a 3 on a scale of 1(modern day politician), 5(worst IRL human I can imagine), 10(worst D&D being I can extrapolate)

[Frosty]

The disease has a 100% lethality rate...eventually, but the idea is to take over quickly enough once the kingdom is weakened and swoop in with the cure and look like saviors. This actually isn't the tiefling's idea, but he went along with it because he's not currently strong enough to disobey/fight back against the party's backer...yet.

On the church, The character is actually confused at why this supposedly LG deity keeps granting spells and power to the clerics of the church. This church even has Paladins. He's close to tracking down a powerful celestial agent of the deity though and plans to force some answers out of him.

[Morcleon]

The disease has a 100% lethality rate...eventually, but the idea is to take over quickly enough once the kingdom is weakened and swoop in with the cure and look like saviors. This actually isn't the tiefling's idea, but he went along with it because he's not currently strong enough to disobey/fight back against the party's backer...yet.

On the church, The character is actually confused at why this supposedly LG deity keeps granting spells and power to the clerics of the church. This church even has Paladins. He's close to tracking down a powerful celestial agent of the deity though and plans to force some answers out of him.

In that case, usage of the disease wasn't his idea and does not solely rest on his own shoulders. I'd bump my rating up to a 3, and have him be CN leaning CG.

And maybe the deity is really LE, and doing something similar to the Burning Hate.

[Frosty]

In that case, usage of the disease wasn't his idea and does not solely rest on his own shoulders. I'd bump my rating up to a 3, and have him be CN leaning CG.

Between the war and the disease, currently thousands have died due to actions this tiefling has participated in. Going along with it he is still a responsible party imo. That said, why all the votes for "chaotic" alignment? He has a code he follows. T just happens to differ from the kingdom's codes.

And maybe the deity is really LE, and doing something similar to the Burning Hate.

thats my guess, but the DM isn't willing to reveal everything yet.

[OldTrees1]

Between the war and the disease, currently thousands have died due to actions this tiefling has participated in. Going along with it he is still a responsible party imo. That said, why all the votes for "chaotic" alignment? He has a code he follows. T just happens to differ from the kingdom's codes.

The votes for chaotic arise from trying to overthrow/rebellion. The ubiquitous hints at the character's lawful nature are all more subtle than that(including the one where the character spent a bunch of time trying to fight within the system).

[Frosty]

Subtle, but there. His end game scenario as he imagines it is a strong but benevolent government that has the power to enforce his edicts to benefit the people. And he definitely tried working within the system before he resorted to violent revolution.

[Masakan]

This guy sound Chaotic, that much is certain.
But I would actually consider him good considering hes doing this for the betterment of everybody.

[BowStreetRunner]

Your character has both chaotic (promotes freedom, rebels against authority) and lawful (personal code) traits. In the end, you need to rank how strongly these inform the character's personality. If you feel that his personal code is strong and he only rebelled after the lawful authority failed, he may in fact be more lawful than chaotic. I would suggest you envisage what type of government he would see putting in the place of this one. If it would be a lawful government, more like the original government was supposed to be, then he is probably lawful. If he would allow greater freedoms and have a government more tolerant and putting individual choice above government mandated religion, then he may be more chaotic.

[Frosty]

He was actually a low ranking acolyte within the church for many years, and only rebelled after seeing too much of the inquisition's excesses, including he burning of one orphanage where one of his friends lived (they were certainly not resisting arrest)...with the people still inside.

He wants a strong central government because he knows that the people of this nation are slow to change, and even with a new king the culture would resist religious egalitarianism. Thus he believes he needs a strong central government with the troops to back up his edicts to make sure he can e force some of these less popular decisions at first. He will also be using other means like sponsoring free education and making sure freedom of choice is faint in school. He is willing to assassinate Chirac leaders who continue to speak out against religious freedom and replace them with more...like minded individuals.

Yes he is for strong government. He is also for treating everyone equally, like negotiating in good faith with the Druidic barbarians for coexistence instead of "convert or we take your lands."

[ShaneMRoth]

The best mechanical fit appears to be Lawful Evil.

This character only resorted to insurrection after all other reasonable options had been exhausted.

His desire to ascend to the throne and do a better job of administering a centralized government strongly infers a Lawful mindset.

A desire to decentralize the government would infer a Chaotic value system.

While the character appears to prefer non-lethal force over lethal force, and would prefer not to kill innocent people, his willingness to commit mass murder and kill countless numbers of innocent people of all ages is incompatible with Neutrality.

In general, the use of weaponized disease-- which is well established to indiscriminately kill friend and foe alike-- is too ****ty to pass as anything other than Evil.

In particular, the decision to kill off disease curing clerics, and by that virtue maximizing the death toll, renders this strategy to be unambiguously Evil.

Inflicting high casualties, even civilian casualties, in the context of a war of attrition could be deemed a Morally Neutral act if it were intended to destroy a government's war making capability... but this is not an act of declared war.

Most problematic of all is the lack of the PC's status as a head of state. (This goes beyond the game mechanics, by the way.)

He lacks the standing to declare war, and so when he commits acts of violence against a population, it's not an act of war. It's an act of terror.

He has declared war, without any standing to do so formally, against a population that... by and large... is unaware that they are in conflict with him-- and, even should they become aware of it-- they have no safe place to go to avoid the battlefield.

That's terrorism.

And IRL, that might be a matter of opinion. But in D&D, that's Evil with a capital E.

The noble purpose driving the character yields to the characters' ruthlessness in how he achieves this purpose.

Mechanically, his Hit Dice and his nature will determine how powerfully he Detects for Evil.

Finally, this is one of the strongest concepts for an Evil PC I have seen committed to writing in a long time. I'd wait in a line for a chance to play at this game table.

[Frosty]

Most problematic of all is the lack of the PC's status as a head of state. (This goes beyond the game mechanics, by the way.)

He lacks the standing to declare war, and so when he commits acts of violence against a population, it's not an act of war. It's an act of terror.

He has declared war, without any standing to do so formally, against a population that... by and large... is unaware that they are in conflict with him-- and, even should they become aware of it-- they have no safe place to go to avoid the battlefield.

That's terrorism.

I disagree that Standing has anything to do in the good vs evil axis, although it may matter in the law vs chaos axis. That said, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Interestingly, the character BELIEVES what he does is evil, and that he is likely going to suffer unspeakable torments in Baator after his death. But, he is willing to sacrifice his eternal soul for the long-term well-being of "his people" (aka everyone on this island). Never let it be said he is not self sacrificing, whatever else he may be.

Mechanically, his Hit Dice and his nature will determine how powerfully he Detects for Evil.

i actually wasn't asking about the detect evil ability at all. Rather, if you were to come up with a system of graded and more nuanced Cale of good and evil, how would this character fit? The 1 to 10 scale is just a quick hand proxy I guess.

Finally, this is one of the strongest concepts for an Evil PC I have seen committed to writing in a long time. I'd wait in a line for a chance to play at this game table.

Thanks that's high praise!

Btw, take a guess what faction/group/faith the PC's sponsor works for