Best class/abilities IRL

[Ruethgar]

I don't think I would go Pun-pun or omnisipher but I would go TO for this since I wouldn't be worrying about what the other players or DM would do or about making the game fun with piratical lower op. That being said, Chosen of Mystra is still a must, I don't know if we're in dead magic and Wish and Genesis SLAs are very nice things to have. I would wish myself to be a Loredrake White Dragonspawn Abomination(LA buyoff with max sorc casting) Endless DWK and boost my stats +5 each as is typical with wish. This particular character will have beaten all odds to get to level 20 for all of the VoP bonus feats before shuffling them all away and breaking his vow.

Draconic 3(-3 buyoff)/Half-Dragon 3(-3 buyoff)Chosen 4(-2 buyoff)/Dragonspawn 1(-1 buyoff)/Sorcerer 1/Warlock 12/Chameleon 5//Druid 5/Chameleon 2/Arcane Hierophant 8/Druid 5

2 Flaw, 2 Racial, 7 Normal, 11 VoP, 8 Class, 1 Floating

19-3 Artisan Feats,-3 Magical Artisan, Craft Wondrous Item,-3 Completed Non-Epic Epic Destiny, Draconic Reservoir, Landlord, Human Heritage, Able Learner, Dragon Wrought, -3 War Spells.

This gives me Sorcerer 19, Druid 18, Warlock 12, Chameleon 7 casting. I can still grap a Mirror Mephit to become a god of NI divine rank if I wish to get more creation power. I can make magical items cheaply and let's pick the Nature Epic destiny so I can Wild shape into the earth and literally be the dragon that is the mountain sort of creature. I'm honestly not sure I would want to try and save Earth, I think I would get into a war sooner or later and that wouldn't be good for anyone. I would set up the aforementioned demiplanes if people wanted to leave, but I wouldn't set them up much, probably not even portals back so they couldn't be used tactically as war factories. The portals to the planes would be moving, slowly, so no one countr would always have access though the larger ones would have an advantage. I would terraform the moon. Create a massive forest and ocean, carve caves, canyons and chasms and conjure mountains to my heart's content. Create life through one of many means and just go crazy being in an RL Creative Minecraft. I would offer long life to friends and family and a few magical favors to former friends who I left on good terms with. There is one friend in particular I would give a small world mending kit since he's made a charity to dedicate his life to that endeavor.

[ben-zayb]

I don't think I would go Pun-pun or omnisipher but I would go TO for this since I wouldn't be worrying about what the other players or DM would do or about making the game fun with piratical lower op. That being said, Chosen of Mystra is still a must, I don't know if we're in dead magic and Wish and Genesis SLAs are very nice things to have. I would wish myself to be a Loredrake White Dragonspawn Abomination(LA buyoff with max sorc casting) Endless DWK and boost my stats +5 each as is typical with wish. This particular character will have beaten all odds to get to level 20 for all of the VoP bonus feats before shuffling them all away and breaking his vow.

Draconic 3(-3 buyoff)/Half-Dragon 3(-3 buyoff)Chosen 4(-2 buyoff)/Dragonspawn 1(-1 buyoff)/Sorcerer 1/Warlock 12/Chameleon 5//Druid 5/Chameleon 2/Arcane Hierophant 8/Druid 5

2 Flaw, 2 Racial, 7 Normal, 11 VoP, 8 Class, 1 Floating

30-3 Artisan Feats,-3 Magical Artisan, Craft Wondrous Item,-3 Completed Non-Epic Epic Destiny, Draconic Reservoir, Leadership, Landlord, Human Heritage, Able Learner, Dragon Wrought=14 feats to go.

+NI feats to go, if you want to, really.

[Ruethgar]

Yes, just keep wishing to be an elf and shuffle, but I want to keep it relatively simple.

[MirddinEmris]

Druid 20, full stop. Maybe some PrC, but it is already enough. His abilities and spells usually have much bigger scale than that of other classes and his focus on manipulating forces of nature if very powerful if used IRL. Though the wildshape probably will be a bit weaker than in fantasy setting with all it's creatures.

I rarely choose this class in the game because of his extensive need for bookkeeping but if to choose for real life, i would be druid, without doubt

[Rubik]

Chosen Initiate of Mystra is still a must

That's why I added three cleric levels into my gestalt build above.

I don't know if we're in dead magic and Wish and Genesis SLAs are very nice things to have. I would wish myself to be a Loredrake White Dragonspawn Abomination(LA buyoff with max sorc casting) Endless DWK and boost my stats +5 each as is typical with wish. This particular character will have beaten all odds to get to level 20 for all of the VoP bonus feats before shuffling them all away and breaking his vow.

I'd be rather careful about that, if I were you. VoP is still giving you the feats, even if the feats themselves have been changed. Breaking VoP gets rid of those feats, and you lose them all. Much easier to craft items that grant feats (as there are several weapon enhancements that grant such), which you can then DCFS out. No question as to whether that works, and there are ways to make all the magic items (or nonmagical devices, if you use Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood) you're wearing invisible and incorporeal and yet still grant you their benefits. You can wear mundane clothing over them (or even go "naked" if you want), and nobody will know the difference. Probably not even you.

Yes, just keep wishing to be an elf and shuffle, but I want to keep it relatively simple.

As with VoP above, being an elf is what's granting you the feats, which the DCFS simply change into other feats. No longer an elf? No longer have the feats. I wouldn't take the chance that that might be the case when the item route is superior in all ways, guaranteed.

[Nifft]

The assumption here is that your (or your civilizations) thought process are the standard for what's normal and "sane". Really, how many fics have already tackled the idea that humans are the diseases that planet 6538a (aka Earth) should be cured of.

So to slightly tweak Jack's statement, you severely underestimate the variety of possible sapient lifeforms in the universe. That is, in concept, I'm fine with a Tippyverse-caused Utopia as long as it remains true to its mission statement, which is a paradise for every single one regardless of their vision of utopia. Rubik's severely limited concept of what that looks like, is the one I disagree with.

Wait, you're trying to assert that my utopia MUST depend on the opinions of every possible sapient lifeform in the universe? That's absurd.

You're the first person I've seen try to move the goalposts beyond the observable universe.

I don't really feel responsible for the happiness of all possible sapient lifeforms... do you have a good argument for why someone would want to cater to that rather broad demographic? Or is your argument just Theoretical Obstructionism?

[Ruethgar]

It is technically Shun the Dark Chaos giving you a feat, the original source is no longer relevant. This is of course TO, but without a DM or other players to worry about I wouldn't really care if I were cheesier than this fellow.

[Rubik]

It is technically Shun the Dark Chaos giving you a feat, the original source is no longer relevant. This is of course TO, but without a DM or other players to worry about I wouldn't really care if I were cheesier than this fellow.

If that's the case, VoP should still give you the original feat, even though you used the DCFS to swap it out for another, so you keep the exalted feat because you still have VoP which is still giving you that benefit, even though you swapped it out.

That makes no sense.

[ben-zayb]

Wait, you're trying to assert that my utopia MUST depend on the opinions of every possible sapient lifeform in the universe? That's absurd.

You're the first person I've seen try to move the goalposts beyond the observable universe.

I don't really feel responsible for the happiness of all possible sapient lifeforms... do you have a good argument for why someone would want to cater to that rather broad demographic? Or is your argument just Theoretical Obstructionism?

Doesn't have to depend on or cater to that, of course. What you do with your magic is entirely up to you. I'm just clarifying that making a Utopia based only on your vision of it, only makes it a Utopia for you and the select beings who share or overlap the same vision, while the rest thinks of it as Dystopia #3254696603 (aka Nifft's "Utopia").

[Nifft]

Doesn't have to depend on or cater to that, of course. What you do with your magic is entirely up to you. I'm just clarifying that making a Utopia based only on your vision of it, only makes it a Utopia for you and the select beings who share or overlap the same vision, while the rest thinks of it as Dystopia #3254696603 (aka Nifft's "Utopia").

So it sounds like your point is that:
- Nobody can prove there isn't a Bizzareo world.
- Therefore, nobody can prove your Bizzaro definition ("utopia = dystopia") doesn't apply to an alien somewhere.

If that's really the extent of your argument, I don't feel particularly morally threatened.

[Rubik]

Doesn't have to depend on or cater to that, of course. What you do with your magic is entirely up to you. I'm just clarifying that making a Utopia based only on your vision of it, only makes it a Utopia for you and the select beings who share or overlap the same vision, while the rest thinks of it as Dystopia #3254696603 (aka Nifft's "Utopia").

I never used the word utopia. I just want to make the world a better place, and honestly, the only people who would think my changes are dystopic would be psychotics, sociopaths, and people with so much selfishness that they're willing to cause severe long-term damage to others in order to garner a short-term benefit.

In short, if they don't like it, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

The only potential sticking point for emotionally stable and healthy individuals would be enforcing the "one child only" rule, and if you want more kids, adopt them. There will still be parents who die, generally via accidents, and people who changed their minds about having kids when it's too late to actually change the situation, so there are options for people who want large families, and orphaned kids all need loving parents, so it is, at the very least, a net neutral.

[Ruethgar]

If that's the case, VoP should still give you the original feat, even though you used the DCFS to swap it out for another, so you keep the exalted feat because you still have VoP which is still giving you that benefit, even though you swapped it out.

That makes no sense.

RAW often doesn't make sense. But I could lose the VoP, still enough feats to do what I've done thus far.

[Rubik]

RAW often doesn't make sense. But I could lose the VoP, still enough feats to do what I've done thus far.

Even with that, magic items can give you WAY more feats. Just with weapon abilities alone, you could get a couple thousand feats to DCFS. Pull the feats from the following:

Battleaxe of the Bull
Breaking Blade
Disarming Flail
Sword of the Glorious Pearl
Staff of Mighty Sweeping
Pearl Trident
Ioun Blade + Dark Blue Ioun Stone.
Ringblade + Poison Ring

Add a pair of warforged mighty arms grafts and some grafted wings to a kobold, along with some Extra Item Slot feats for extra arm, hand, and ring slots.

Now add all of that to gauntlets (4), armor spikes (1), a horned helm (1), sleeve blades (4), knee blades (2), a tail scythe or club (1), six chronocharms, each with a necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) enhancement attached (24) and a hand of glory effect on each, wingblades (2), two elvencraft longbows with bow spikes (8), a mouthpick elvencraft longbow with a bow spike (4), boot blades (2), an animated shield for shield bashes (1) with shield spikes (1), a braid blade (1), bracers of striking (4), Ancestral Relic (Unarmed Strike) (1), close fighting blade added to every weapon (61), and poison rings added to every weapon and ring slot (132).

Multiply that by the number of enhancements above (7) and you get a nice 1,848 feats available for DCFSing. Add to that Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Proficiency and Shield Proficiency for most of your classes that you can DCFS out, along with racial feats, class bonus feats, domain bonus feats (metal domain grants two, which can be nabbed through Catalogues of Enlightenment) and the various feats which grant additional feats as a side-benefit, such as Psicrystal Affinity and Obtain Familiar (each of which grants Alertness).

For those of you who don't know, a poison ring is a ring with a foldable needle on it. It's a martial weapon that delivers poison as a touch attack and deals 1 piercing damage. You can, of course, wear two rings normally, four if you take the graft and Extra Item Slot (Ring) twice. Add to that the ringblade property and the hand of glory enhancement that you've added to all of your chronocharms.

[ben-zayb]

Ah, so apparently the confusion stems from me saying dystopia, which you might take as an utter "anti-utopia" or "bizzaro version of utopia", where I mean simply as a hypothetical "bad place", which is sort of its literal meaning.

Let's put it this way: Is it really hard to consider the possibility of having at least one person that will view as a "bad place”, a hypothetical place where people are forbidden to have more than one heir to their DNA? How about towards a hypothetical place where people will have go through a (magical) intrusive "treatment"/"cure", conveniently called as the rather reassuring "Bestow Curse" by WoTC, which they have no personal choice to refuse? Would such people automatically strike you as psychopaths?

EDIT: I can't promise to respond in a timely/regular manner, but how about we take this to a new thread, so as not to go too far off-topic?

[Rubik]

Ah, so apparently the confusion stems from me saying dystopia, which you might take as an utter "anti-utopia" or "bizzaro version of utopia", where I mean simply as a hypothetical "bad place", which is sort of its literal meaning.

Let's put it this way: Is it really hard to consider the possibility of having at least one person that will view as a "bad place”, a hypothetical place where people are forbidden to have more than one heir to their DNA? How about towards a hypothetical place where people will have go through a (magical) intrusive "treatment"/"cure", conveniently called as the rather reassuring "Bestow Curse" by WoTC, which they have no personal choice to refuse? Would such people automatically strike you as psychopaths?

EDIT: I can't promise to respond in a timely/regular manner, but how about we take this to a new thread, so as not to go too far off-topic?

Psychopaths are, by definition, sick, and need to be cured, for their own good as much as everyone else's.

I'm usually not a proponent of "the needs of the many," but given the nature of psychopathy, I definitely do in this case, as a psychopath's "needs" are inherently horrible and incredibly destructive and self-destructive. If you prefer, we could Plane Shift everyone with psychopathic tendencies to the lower planes. They'd fit right in. Until they were enslaved and tortured or slaughtered, just like they'd do with everyone else if they got the chance. D'you suppose they'd be happier like that?

[Ruethgar]

I already added the proficiency feats. Light from Half Dragon, Draconic, Chameleon, Arcane Hierophant, Warlock, and Druid, Medium and Shield from Druid accounts for the "8 Class" feats. I would rather avoid equipment as much as I am able. If by some mistake of my own they get into the wrong hands it could be bad. Not that I couldn't easily fix it, but for others in the span of time it takes me to notice and deal with it it could be devastating. Also I feel wrong with so much of my power relying on external sources... I have a solution though! Sculpt Self and just take NI feats to shuffle via the custom Prestige Races. There is also that little bit in A&EG that lets you just put feats on items, so you can put every feat on your items, paid for by your NI wealth as a spellcaster, and then you'd be set.

[smcmike]

Psychopaths are, by definition, sick, and need to be cured, for their own good as much as everyone else's.

I'm usually not a proponent of "the needs of the many," but given the nature of psychopathy, I definitely do in this case, as a psychopath's "needs" are inherently horrible and incredibly destructive and self-destructive. If you prefer, we could Plane Shift everyone with psychopathic tendencies to the lower planes. They'd fit right in. Until they were enslaved and tortured or slaughtered, just like they'd do with everyone else if they got the chance. D'you suppose they'd be happier like that?

I'm not calling names here, but this strikes me as the sort of idea a psychopath might come up with.

Here's a question: if you had the ability to bestow 20 class levels on another person of your choosing, would you?

[Nifft]

Ah, so apparently the confusion stems from me saying dystopia, which you might take as an utter "anti-utopia" or "bizzaro version of utopia", where I mean simply as a hypothetical "bad place", which is sort of its literal meaning.

One of its literal meanings is in fact "anti-utopia".

If you want to back-pedal that deep into semantic ambiguity, then you've basically lost the ability to argue anything. I mean, if "dystopia" is supposed to mean nothing more than "bad place", then "utopia" means nothing more than "good place", and the real world is simultaneously both a dystopia and a utopia.

That's clearly a useless rhetorical position, and can't be what you were arguing, since you were trying to contradict the possibility of a utopia.

Just cop to the fact that you were arguing a bad position and let's all move on.

[Ruethgar]

Here's a question: if you had the ability to bestow 20 class levels on another person of your choosing, would you?

Hell no! I wouldn't even trust myself to do the right thing with 20 levels despite my optimistic dream of just being a benevolent creator.

Edit: As to the Utopia/Dystopia discussion. Seal the Dream Heart by getting epic level spells or godhood as mentioned earlier in this thread. Force everyone to sleep and give them a lovely +5 to Lucid Dreaming. Vuala you have Utopia for all.

[ben-zayb]

One of its literal meanings is in fact "anti-utopia".

If you want to back-pedal that deep into semantic ambiguity, then you've basically lost the ability to argue anything. I mean, if "dystopia" is supposed to mean nothing more than "bad place", then "utopia" means nothing more than "good place", and the real world is simultaneously both a dystopia and a utopia.

That's clearly a useless rhetorical position, and can't be what you were arguing, since you were trying to contradict the possibility of a utopia.

Just cop to the fact that you were arguing a bad position and let's all move on.

The world is like that, yes, depending on where specifically and subjectivity. Is this somehow a surprising idea? Some people already live in what they would consider Utopia/Dystopia.
EDIT: And no, utopia is not literally "good place". You have the wrong etymological basis.


@Rubik So you do consider my 2 examples as psychopaths, because that was my query? Not wanting to be forced into taking Bestow Curse is psychopathic? Not wanting to be forced into being limited to a single biological heir is psychopathic?

[Rubik]

I'm not calling names here, but this strikes me as the sort of idea a psychopath might come up with.

According to some sources in 3.5, the planes are considered utopias by their residents, no matter the alignment, because they all fit in there. A LG character in the Seven Heavens finds bliss there, as does a CE character in the Abyss. That is how they want the world to work, and that's how those worlds DO work. The fact that the CE character is likely to be tortured into insanity by those far more powerful than him is a fairly unfortunate side-effect, which isn't an issue for the average CE character because most psychopaths feel they are above such retaliation, which comes as a nasty surprise when they learn that they aren't the biggest shark in the pool.

I already added the proficiency feats. Light from Half Dragon, Draconic, Chameleon, Arcane Hierophant, Warlock, and Druid, Medium and Shield from Druid accounts for the "8 Class" feats. I would rather avoid equipment as much as I am able. If by some mistake of my own they get into the wrong hands it could be bad. Not that I couldn't easily fix it, but for others in the span of time it takes me to notice and deal with it it could be devastating. Also I feel wrong with so much of my power relying on external sources... I have a solution though! Sculpt Self and just take NI feats to shuffle via the custom Prestige Races. There is also that little bit in A&EG that lets you just put feats on items, so you can put every feat on your items, paid for by your NI wealth as a spellcaster, and then you'd be set.

Just make your equipment incorporeal via Ghostform and invisible via a Chained Sequester. If you have the Ghostly Grasp feat, you'll be able to gain the benefits of all those items, and nobody else will be able to see, touch, taste, smell, or hear them. Or you could nab the ghost's manifestation property, Plane Shift to the Ethereal, and use Chained Sequester and Ghostly Grasp.

[Rubik]

@Rubik So you do consider my 2 examples as psychopaths, because that was my query? Not wanting to be forced into taking Bestow Curse is psychopathic? Not wanting to be forced into being limited to a single biological heir is psychopathic?

The only limitations the curses place are, basically, nonviolence against innocents, limits on terribly destructive behaviors, and attempts to make the (very alarming) overpopulation problem worse (which can be lumped into the second one).

Objecting to the first and second, yes. The third, maybe not, but it is incredibly selfish, to the point of being detrimental to everyone else. So either incredibly selfish or short-sighted, either of which is a very big NO, and can possibly be lumped into psychosis, sociopathy, or stupidity, depending on the reason.

[ben-zayb]

The only limitations the curses place are, basically, nonviolence against innocents, limits on terribly destructive behaviors, and attempts to make the (very alarming) overpopulation problem worse (which can be lumped into the second one).

Objecting to the first and second, yes. The second, maybe not, but it is incredibly selfish, to the point of being detrimental to everyone else. So either incredibly selfish or short-sighted, either of which is a very big NO, and can possibly be lumped into psychosis, sociopathy, or stupidity, depending on the reason.

Alright, so this is just where we agree to disagree, and will not expound more about it, lest I break the forum rules.

[Rubik]

Hell no! I wouldn't even trust myself to do the right thing with 20 levels despite my optimistic dream of just being a benevolent creator.

I know a few people I wouldn't mind having that kind of power, but I wouldn't do so for someone I didn't know well and trust as a result.

I have no desire to cause pain or inconvenience to anyone more than the absolute minimum necessary for everyone to prosper (horribly selfish people aside, since the whole point of what I'd do would be to curb their behaviors), and I don't have any desire to take on the mantle of rulership. I want to be happy and to help others be happy, and I'll do what is necessary to that end. Once that part is over, I plan on having fun and enjoying myself, which are things I've never really been able to do before. I don't think the need to feel safe, secure, and happy (but not at the expense of others) is terribly selfish.

Edit: As to the Utopia/Dystopia discussion. Seal the Dream Heart by getting epic level spells or godhood as mentioned earlier in this thread. Force everyone to sleep and give them a lovely +5 to Lucid Dreaming. Vuala you have Utopia for all.

Interesting way to manage it, I think. Everyone is in their own self-contained Matrix, albeit with links to others' networks. I could see being given this option as a good thing, but enforcing it regardless of what anyone wants, perhaps not. Could be a reasonable way to handle psychopaths who don't want to get better, so long as they're confined to their own dreams and can't torture others in theirs.

(Also, it's "voila," for what it's worth.)

[Rakoa]

The only limitations the curses place are, basically, nonviolence against innocents, limits on terribly destructive behaviors, and attempts to make the (very alarming) overpopulation problem worse (which can be lumped into the second one).

Objecting to the first and second, yes. The third, maybe not, but it is incredibly selfish, to the point of being detrimental to everyone else. So either incredibly selfish or short-sighted, either of which is a very big NO, and can possibly be lumped into psychosis, sociopathy, or stupidity, depending on the reason.

Damn. I really hope you don't get access to Bestow Curse anytime soon.

[Rubik]

Damn. I really hope you don't get access to Bestow Curse anytime soon.

So you object to being denied the ability to torture and murder innocent people?

Wow.

[atemu1234]

This utopia is beginning to remind me of Psychopass.

[Nifft]

The world is like that, yes, depending on where specifically and subjectivity. Is this somehow a surprising idea? Some people already live in what they would consider Utopia/Dystopia.
EDIT: And no, utopia is not literally "good place". You have the wrong etymological basis.

Are you trying to conflate literal meaning with root etymology? Because that's not how language works.

I'll just note that you've now retreated entirely into semantics arguments, and leave it at that.

[Rubik]

Anyway, back to the thread topic.

[ben-zayb]

So you object to being denied to the ability to torture and murder innocent people?

Wow.

You present mutiple cases bundled up nicely in one package, and when someone objects possibly on "not-the-whole-thing", you assume that he/she is objecting to the worst possible choice.

@Nifft So this language you speak of only contains nonvague nonambiguous words with no possible room for mutiple definitions? That's not my definition of language.