Dungeons and Dreamboats VII: Come for the Art, Stay for the Arguments

[Marlowe]

>Conan-themed
>Clothing

Pick one.

Spoiler: such wit aside...

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This is how she appeared on the original Weird Tales cover.

The notoriously kinky artist isn't to blame, this is her harem-slave (as she was at the time) outfit. However, she's described in the book as dark haired and also seemed a lot more collected than she looks here. She did break Conan out herself, neutralized the guards w/ drugs and alcohol, supplied him with a horse and a good weapon, all on her own devices and initiative. The only hiccup in her plan was made by the man himself.

This is the closest to a respectable (!) image of her.

From Marvel Comics. Decent outfit; but they've made her blonde.

Amusingly, looking at the book again, I came to an odd realisation.

Conan married and made his queen a woman who he had never seen except in dim light.

At least we know he's not superficial.

[goto124]

The males don't wear much either

Speaking of which, I enjoy the Repair Her Armor, that aims to promote realistic clothing for women, by editing art of... erm... sexily-dressed females. Compared to the Squicky Game Art tumblr, it's much less complaining & over-the-top prudishness, and a lot more explanation, actual correction, good examples, and overall gender equality. Even the changed outfits aren't completely free of fanservice- they're more aiming to remove excessive fanservice, and handle mostly the more egregious examples. They don't just cover up the women, they change their poses to ones that actually make the ladies look powerful (as opposed to posing for a magazine cover).

Spoiler: A well-explained example of an image being changed

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Accompanying text: Played up on the Demon(?) lady’s bark/stone/scale-like growths into a sort of natural armor, thus meaning she’d need less manufactured cover. I was far too lazy to draw a proper chain.
The second girl; I had no idea she was a cat girl until I zoomed way in. Her ears are painted very dark and the tail a sort of passing thought to the original artist.
Played up on cat light features and reflexes, turning what ever it is that the original is carrying into a spear while giving her leather armor of a reasonable style.

Dynamic poses, opposition hinted at due to the colour scheme (dark/light, red/blue, hot/cold etc.), and facial expressions implying more than feigned interest and passing curiosity.

Spoiler: Gender Equality

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Spoiler: Top male is the original. Bottom male is the edit. Female is unchanged.

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Accompanying text: I would have done a serious fix but honestly, both of the original armours were ridiculous. Clearly vital organs are in your limbs right? I thought I might as well get the guy up to speed on the silliness too.

Spoiler: A hilarous example (woman is Gloria from Devil May Cry 4)

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Not that the man isn't looking good.

Spoiler: Well, they are equal...

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Blademaster, warrior, and archer, respectively, from the Tynon class selection screen.

Accompanying text: I admit to being a little surprised that most of the males were poorly armored, as well. Guess there was a short supply of metal and the animals got most of it.

[Erasmas]

I understand many of the points that people make about skimpy armor and unrealistic poses in art. And some of it I definitely agree with. I can't understand why some people will spend so much of their time and energy railing against the art that contains it, however. In some of the very same images, not one person mentions or complains about how unrealistic some of their weapons are... or how large the eyes are on many of these anime girls.

My point is... art is entirely subjective. Some of what is being complained about comes down to style. And it takes place in fantasical settings - where people fling lightning about on a daily basis and the gods interact with mortals. Yet nobody bemoans these things. And that's because... this isn't reality. And deciding where the line of disbelief gets drawn is wholly up to the ones playing the game/reading the comic/watching the show. Again, it's subjective.

If someone wishes to allow scantily-clad warriors that gain armor benefit despite not having much in the way of physical armor... whatever. Do I, personally, think that there is a gross under-representation of historical-based female armors depicted in gaming art... yes, undeniably so. But I think there is also a lack of historical basis on most arms and armor depicted in game art.

The issue is really a matter of establishing an unhealthy expectation of women's proportions and sexualities, in those that do not know the reality better. Sexist? Yes. But "ridiculous", not anymore than an eight-foot long, one foot-wide sword.

Just to clarify, this was just a two-cent rant about the current topic. It is not in response to anyone or anything in particular here.

[LudicSavant]

I'll field a request. I'd like to see pics that fit this quote:

"Where she walked she was greeted. Thin and hard, lined, uglied perhaps by time but an astounding ugliness, vivid and passionate."
- China Mieville's "Iron Council"

[gadren]

I understand many of the points that people make about skimpy armor and unrealistic poses in art. And some of it I definitely agree with. I can't understand why some people will spend so much of their time and energy railing against the art that contains it, however. In some of the very same images, not one person mentions or complains about how unrealistic some of their weapons are... or how large the eyes are on many of these anime girls.

My point is... art is entirely subjective. Some of what is being complained about comes down to style. And it takes place in fantasical settings - where people fling lightning about on a daily basis and the gods interact with mortals. Yet nobody bemoans these things. And that's because... this isn't reality. And deciding where the line of disbelief gets drawn is wholly up to the ones playing the game/reading the comic/watching the show. Again, it's subjective.

If someone wishes to allow scantily-clad warriors that gain armor benefit despite not having much in the way of physical armor... whatever. Do I, personally, think that there is a gross under-representation of historical-based female armors depicted in gaming art... yes, undeniably so. But I think there is also a lack of historical basis on most arms and armor depicted in game art.

The issue is really a matter of establishing an unhealthy expectation of women's proportions and sexualities, in those that do not know the reality better. Sexist? Yes. But "ridiculous", not anymore than an eight-foot long, one foot-wide sword.

Just to clarify, this was just a two-cent rant about the current topic. It is not in response to anyone or anything in particular here.

The complaint revolves around a societal trend that seems to say that the primary value of a woman is how attractive she is. The armor designs in many games and other media tend to go out of their way to sexualize women far, far, far more often than they sexualize men.

Even when male characters have "skimpy armor" it is still usually not sexualized like so many female armors are.

For example, when someone complains about female armor like this:

Spoiler

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People will frequently post something like this as a counterpoint that supposedly men get the same treatment, and they don't understand why the above would make women uncomfortable, when this doesn't make men uncomfortable:

Spoiler

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But despite being "skimpy" the above is not sexualized. The next time you see super sexy lady armor, perhaps you should instead think of this, as a comparison:

Spoiler

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I personally don't have a problem with female characters being super sexy sometimes, I just think that the amount we see it done to women compared to the amount we see it done to men demonstrates an inequality.

EDIT: And to more explicitly address the issue of practicality complaints: I don't really think you can separate the two when it comes to female armor. Every complaint I've seen online about a woman's armor's practicality was connected to a change that was made to emphasize the woman's sexuality. I've seen some armors in WoW and such where the women's armor had some stupidly huge shoulder plates, but this isn't what you see people writing posts and blogs and stuff complaining about.

[Hiro Protagonest]

For me, female armor is a practice in retaining femininity while also having a convincing look of power. I don't care about realism, so for both sexes, my preferred designs are armor that covers and fits the form about as much as regular, non-baggy clothes, easy to throw a cloak over. As such, I dislike realistic designs like this, though my dislike is generally more for full plate than cuirass...es? Helmets are the equivalent of a red shirt, except for those few who have full helms as a stylistic choice, and gorgets are usually forgotten. Women's designs have a little more space around the chest, and usually an armored skirt with the greaves. Generally, I assume that the armor's either magic or really only wearable by its intended owner.

And going through that tumblr, the owner's comments are a little too... um... zealous? for my taste. Maybe I just have British sensibilities despite being American, but you won't win me over with that attitude, even though I acknowledge the imbalance.

[Marlowe]

Spoiler: Such a fascinating argument. It was fascinating the last thousand times we had it and it will be fascinating a thousand more. However, since I have no interest in anyone's opinion nor faith that their expression of it will accomplish anything, I'm just posting images.

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I couldn't do much for the "Thin and Hard, Lined and Ugly" thing; but here's a Kycilia Zabi.

Okay, she's got "thin and hard" at least.


I was amused by this series.

[Sith_Happens]

The males don't wear much either

Speaking of which, I enjoy the Repair Her Armor, that aims to promote realistic clothing for women, by editing art of... erm... sexily-dressed females. Compared to the Squicky Game Art tumblr, it's much less complaining & over-the-top prudishness, and a lot more explanation, actual correction, good examples, and overall gender equality. Even the changed outfits aren't completely free of fanservice- they're more aiming to remove excessive fanservice, and handle mostly the more egregious examples. They don't just cover up the women, they change their poses to ones that actually make the ladies look powerful (as opposed to posing for a magazine cover).

Spoiler: A well-explained example of an image being changed

Show

Accompanying text: Played up on the Demon(?) lady’s bark/stone/scale-like growths into a sort of natural armor, thus meaning she’d need less manufactured cover. I was far too lazy to draw a proper chain.
The second girl; I had no idea she was a cat girl until I zoomed way in. Her ears are painted very dark and the tail a sort of passing thought to the original artist.
Played up on cat light features and reflexes, turning what ever it is that the original is carrying into a spear while giving her leather armor of a reasonable style.

Dynamic poses, opposition hinted at due to the colour scheme (dark/light, red/blue, hot/cold etc.), and facial expressions implying more than feigned interest and passing curiosity.

Spoiler: Gender Equality

Show

Spoiler: Top male is the original. Bottom male is the edit. Female is unchanged.

Show

Accompanying text: I would have done a serious fix but honestly, both of the original armours were ridiculous. Clearly vital organs are in your limbs right? I thought I might as well get the guy up to speed on the silliness too.

Spoiler: A hilarous example (woman is Gloria from Devil May Cry 4)

Show

Not that the man isn't looking good.

Spoiler: Well, they are equal...

Show

Blademaster, warrior, and archer, respectively, from the Tynon class selection screen.

Accompanying text: I admit to being a little surprised that most of the males were poorly armored, as well. Guess there was a short supply of metal and the animals got most of it.

The one "fix" I scrolled enough to see that I take issue with is Erza Scarlet. One of my favorite things about Erza as a character is that more of the time than not she shows skin exactly the same way her male co-stars do: in direct proportion to how much ass she's kicking.

[sakuuya]

Was on here yesterday, and maybe a bit too light skinned, but here you go.

Spoiler: Nautical Adventuress

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Thank you for looking, but yeah, she's lighter-skinned than I was looking for. I actually managed to find some good stuff for myself, though, after a lot of frustrating searching. I ended up using the first pic in the spoiler, but I wanted to add the rest here for posterity.

Spoiler: Ahoy, Mateys!

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I'll field a request. I'd like to see pics that fit this quote:

"Where she walked she was greeted. Thin and hard, lined, uglied perhaps by time but an astounding ugliness, vivid and passionate."
- China Mieville's "Iron Council"

I've got a few candidates."Ugly" is tough to find in female fantasy characters, though.

Spoiler: Definitely Not Cheesecake

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[gadren]

I've got a few candidates."Ugly" is tough to find in female fantasy characters, though.

Spoiler: Definitely Not Cheesecake

Show

That last one is amazing! Totally makes me want to base a PC or an NPC on her.

[DaedalusMkV]

The 40k RPG artwork is actually pretty good at not hypersexualizing the female characters. You'll see a lot of women wearing essentially exactly the same outfits as the men, only now with a feminine face and (if not wearing obvious chest armour, which is pretty much universally unisex) breasts.

Some examples:

Spoiler: Bothcake

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Mordian Iron Guards:




If the woman is more sexually attractive, it's only because she hasn't had her left arm blown off.





I think these two speak for themselves, really.

Take a look through the books at your FLGS if you get the opportunity, but especially Only War. Whoever does the art for Fantasy Flight is really good at drawing realistic women in 40k's style. Most of it doesn't seem to be readily available online, though. At least not where I've seen.

[LudicSavant]

Spoiler: Definitely Not Cheesecake

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Thanks for these! Would love it if anyone had any more.

[Calybos]

Wow, seven threads of fantasy cheesecake, and I saw no sign of the d20 book covers of Lorenzo Sperlonga. Feast your eyes on pure sexiness--impractical, objectifying, and utterly unrealistic. The way fantasy art should be.

Set One:

Spoiler

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Set Two:

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Set Three:

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[Marlowe]

Spoiler: Lady with swordx6

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Spoiler: Gothloli get-together.

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[MrUberGr]

I'm looking for either a sunelf or a moon elf male wizard. Average age, about ~200 years old. Not sure which of the two I want, so amaze me

[Subaru Kujo]

Found a few more things that looked good.

Male

Spoiler

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Female

Spoiler: possibly a wee bit NSFW. Maybe. The bits are covered though

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[Iku Rex]

I'm looking for either a sunelf or a moon elf male wizard. Average age, about ~200 years old.

Magic-y elf:

Spoiler

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[Leon]

Caster Types

Spoiler

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Rogue Types

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Yes. her name is Erin

Spoiler

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[BootStrapTommy]

Formal requests:
Ominous cloaked, hooded figures of the questionable religious variety.

The most awesome (as in causing awe or terror) greenish and/or blackish Dragon you can find. Bonus internet's for the presence of orcs.

Will pay a toll upon acquiring computer accessible interwebs.

[IZ42]

No tax, but I have another character request.

An EXTREMELY bulky male Silver Half-Dragon wielding two ridiculously sized swords, if that's at all possible to find. Thanks!

[DrewID]

Formal requests:
The most awesome (as in causing awe or terror) greenish and/or blackish Dragon you can find. Bonus internet's for the presence of orcs.

Spoiler: Sorry, no orcs

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DrewID

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hm... I can't remember what exactly I posted from my DeviantWatch in the last thread. So just have these.

Spoiler: Mostly girls

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And for some not from Deviantart.

Spoiler: These were a nice find

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Source - Other source

Spoiler: Because I can

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[Calybos]

Some happy fairy-tale cheesecake pics from Al Rio:

Spoiler

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[BootStrapTommy]

Spoiler: Sorry, no orcs

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DrewID

That second one is absurdly cool. Thanks.

[DrewID]

That second one is absurdly cool. Thanks.

De nada. From deviantart, if the name didn't make that clear. http://treijim.deviantart.com/art/Black-Dragon-72201933

Spoiler: Must pay taxes plus maintain cool theme...

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Source is http://benmaier.deviantart.com/art/I...lfin-460082328 Artist changed their name.

DrewID

[goto124]

Photobucket image links redirect to photobucket itself, which is laggy and the image quality is poor (especially since I'm on mobile). Same problem with tinypic

I personally prefer devianart, imgure, etc direct image links. No redirection.

Spoiler: Tax. Also, how did I manage to find this?

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[Palanan]

I have an image request: a pallid mistress of the necromantic arts, preferably in some fashion of bone armor--somewhere between revealing and practical, but nothing overboard.

--Aw heck, overboard is fine. Dark hair and a haughty attitude if possible, and bonus points for a few undead minions milling around. Or even just spare parts.

[Marlowe]

The bone armour is a tough one, but Necromantic Lady seems pretty popular.

Spoiler

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Sorry if none of them suit.

[Cerlis]

(thing is i've seen enough episodes of Top Model to hear plenty about how unnatural, painful and difficult "Model" poses are. Like its one thing when its a banner or something and you just want the character. But like that one up there with the almost naked archer with the tattered cloths. "oh yes I naturally sit like this ALL THE TIME". Like no A woman only turns her head that far around without moving the rest of her body if she is deliberately trying to keep her ass in the picture. Most model poses that exentuate the body are PAINFUL and Unnatural. THAT is why when you see superheros or adventure girls in the middle of a fight and doing those you know its B.S.

[khadgar567]

The bone armour is a tough one, but Necromantic Lady seems pretty popular.

Spoiler

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Sorry if none of them suit.

I dont know where you look marlowe but armor part is done

Spoiler: overbord bone armor

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