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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Exotic Elementals

    I've been watching this, http://video.pbs.org/program/uranium...-dragons-tail/

    And it struck me. Firstly, if Redcloak made a Uranium elemental, it wouldn't be 235, because that's REALLY rare, but rather 238.

    Also, it would shoot energy from itself, but each it does it, it turns into another elemental. And some of those elementals would be gasseus. It would have 26 shots until it became a significantly smaller and stable lead elemental.

    Details here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uraniu...nium_series.29

    You'll notice that there are several radioactive isotopes of lead in this series.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...6#post15476516


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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    ... and/or it could sacrifice a certain number of HP to create a (weak) elemental generated randomly from the fission-products distribution.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    uranium decay in over 4 billion years, so the rate of transformation into other elements is negligible. You may want to try other, less stable elements.
    i'm not sure what the chosen isotope of plutonium would be, since it does not exist in nature (well, except one isotope of which there are a handful of atoms left from the earth formation, but three atoms per cubic meters is not much to say it exist in nature), but it is possible that a plutonium elemental would undergo spontaneous fission instantly after summoning.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    uranium decay in over 4 billion years, so the rate of transformation into other elements is negligible. You may want to try other, less stable elements.
    i'm not sure what the chosen isotope of plutonium would be, since it does not exist in nature (well, except one isotope of which there are a handful of atoms left from the earth formation, but three atoms per cubic meters is not much to say it exist in nature), but it is possible that a plutonium elemental would undergo spontaneous fission instantly after summoning.
    That might be an interesting spell. Using a summon spell to make a bomb? I see abuse potential.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    uranium decay in over 4 billion years, so the rate of transformation into other elements is negligible. You may want to try other, less stable elements.
    i'm not sure what the chosen isotope of plutonium would be, since it does not exist in nature (well, except one isotope of which there are a handful of atoms left from the earth formation, but three atoms per cubic meters is not much to say it exist in nature), but it is possible that a plutonium elemental would undergo spontaneous fission instantly after summoning.
    Assuming the Plutonium Elemental is anywhere near the size of the other elementals Redcloak's summoned so far, I'd strongly advise being in a different kingdom when that thing pops into existence.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Assuming the Plutonium Elemental is anywhere near the size of the other elementals Redcloak's summoned so far, I'd strongly advise being in a different kingdom when that thing pops into existence.
    A Small Plutonium Elemental would be a city-killer.
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    That might be an interesting spell. Using a summon spell to make a bomb? I see abuse potential.
    It'd probably be an epic spell, so hopefully the potential for abuse could be constrained by a high DC.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by F.Harr View Post
    And it struck me. Firstly, if Redcloak made a Uranium elemental, it wouldn't be 235, because that's REALLY rare, but rather 238.
    Since he can make elementals from particular elements, can't see any reason why he couldn't make a U-235 one as well. It would have the same issue as the plutonium elemental mentioned above, of course...

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Since he can make elementals from particular elements, can't see any reason why he couldn't make a U-235 one as well.
    Wouldn't that be an isotopal, not an elemental?
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Since some people creates Reactionals, I assume it can be done :D


    I remember discussions about Redcloak's chemical grades. Some people were assuming he barely passed.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
    Wouldn't that be an isotopal, not an elemental?
    It would be both, naturally!

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It would be both, naturally!
    No no. It'd be both, artificially! :smuggrin:
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    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    I see these variant elemental summonings as fluff for Summons with metamagic and augment summoning applied descriptively. (perhaps some feat or variant that's 'homebrew') At any rate, I would imagine that whatever the mechanics, summoning a Titanium Elemental takes a higher level slot than summoning a normal 'Earth' Elemental.

    Summoning a Plutonium Elemental would take a higher slot still.
    Last edited by Aasimar; 2015-08-03 at 09:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Aasimar View Post
    I see these variant elemental summonings as fluff for Summons with metamagic and augment summoning applied descriptively. (perhaps some feat or variant that's 'homebrew') At any rate, I would imagine that whatever the mechanics, summoning a Titanium Elemental takes a higher level slot than summoning a normal 'Earth' Elemental.

    Summoning a Plutonium Elemental would take a higher slot still.
    I think you are reading it too mechanically, it's "rule of funny." Red Cloak isn't using metamagic or augmented summons, he just is using actual chemistry to summon "elementals" with the "properties" (as a poet would think of them) of the chemical element.

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Aasimar View Post
    I see these variant elemental summonings as fluff for Summons with metamagic and augment summoning applied descriptively. (perhaps some feat or variant that's 'homebrew') At any rate, I would imagine that whatever the mechanics, summoning a Titanium Elemental takes a higher level slot than summoning a normal 'Earth' Elemental.

    Summoning a Plutonium Elemental would take a higher slot still.
    I always thought they were balanced somehow.

    Redcloak mentions that the Titanium Elementals are lighter than the Earth Elemental. That's useful for throwing them, that would be useful for fighting on not-very-solid ground, but not in many other cases.
    If Redcloak had to summon lower elementals (while using the same spell slots) in order to throw them that far, he could as well summon lower Earth Elementals (weight decreases/increases quickly with their size) or fire catapults from closer (would be exposing them though, but he's going to do it anyway).

    The Chlorine Elemental did not insta-kill Tsukiko, so it's poison damage must have a limit (like a lot of damages in D&D world, non-magical fire for instance do not obey to our logic), probably depending of it's type (size category).

    The Silicium Elemental could probably be compared to a Water Elemental fighting on a shore. He's not using tricks like hiding in sand though. It seemed like a very serious threat, but it wasn't possible to tell if any attack was working on it (no scratch) while they were. It probably had DR but was fought only with physical damages and Roy couldn't even fight with his sword the whole time (with DR, one big hit is way more effective than multiple small hits).

    In D&D, a Plutonium Elemental would probably not have the same properties that an huge amount of Plutonium in open space in our real world. That would be broken.
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    Euclidodese's Avatar

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    He could summon a Surprise Elemental... No one would see that coming.

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    No one expects the Inquisition Elemental.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    No one expects the Inquisition Elemental.
    : My chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise. My two chief weapons are fear, surprise, and...


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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    : My chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise. My two chief weapons are fear, surprise, and...
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by legomaster00156 View Post
    A Small Plutonium Elemental would be a city-killer.
    Fat Man contained about 14lb (6kg) of Plutonium, and the weights given for small creatures are 8-60lb, so yeah even your average Small Plutomium elemental would be extremely devastating. I hate to think what what happen if an 8 ton Huge plutonium elemental was summoned.

    On another note, the elemental plane of Plutonium must be an interesting place, indeed.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    Fat Man contained about 14lb (6kg) of Plutonium, and the weights given for small creatures are 8-60lb, so yeah even your average Small Plutomium elemental would be extremely devastating. I hate to think what what happen if an 8 ton Huge plutonium elemental was summoned.

    On another note, the elemental plane of Plutonium must be an interesting place, indeed.
    Thog liked plutoniun place. Thog in touch with inner greeness and outer greenes all over the place. Hulk guy very friendly, too.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    I hate to think what what happen if an 8 ton Huge plutonium elemental was summoned.
    In terms of immediate damage, probably not much worse than the small one, to be honest--the explosion would disperse most of the plutonium before it had a chance to participate in the energy release. Of course, you then have 8 tons of highly radioactive plutonium scattered across a wide area, which wouldn't be pleasant.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Maybe U/Pu elementals could be accompanied by some Boron elementals... Or perhaps there's a divine restriction, and Transuranic elementals cannot be summoned where there is life.

    A Magnesium elemental might be interesting - good armour class and hit points, low damage per hit, but you really don't want to hit it with a fireball.

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    In terms of immediate damage, probably not much worse than the small one, to be honest--the explosion would disperse most of the plutonium before it had a chance to participate in the energy release. Of course, you then have 8 tons of highly radioactive plutonium scattered across a wide area, which wouldn't be pleasant.
    Since you're obviously more knowledgeable about this than I am, is this the reason why they say only 10% or so of the plutonium in the bomb ended up undergoing fission?

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    It's so cool that people are taking this seriously.

    Firstly, U235 and U238 are both uranium and chemically exactly the same. One is just a teeny tiny bit heavier than the other. So specifying which isoltope you want, you'd have to use enough magic to simulate a centrafuge and the people to run it.

    Also, I understand that there are such things as half-lives. But I doubt people would be willing to wait for billions of six-second combat rounds. So I figure that the elemental can get it all over with at once causing a goodly amount of heat damage per transmutation. But some of the heat would be used to power the magic that would make it possible. Then there's poison effects.

    But that's just me. Anything that sounds cool's O.K.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...6#post15476516


    I know I'm stealing this from someone else. But it's SO FUNNY

    Zweisteine quoting Razanir:

    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    I imagine the Elemental Plane of Uranium, being infinite and all, has enough of all the isotopes to go around.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    How about summoning a Hydrogen Elemental, and then casting Implosion on it?

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    Since you're obviously more knowledgeable about this than I am, is this the reason why they say only 10% or so of the plutonium in the bomb ended up undergoing fission?
    Pretty sure that's the case, yes. It's also why the largest fission bombs ever created never got into the megaton yield range--you have to include a fusion stage to get to those levels. In point of fact, I'm pretty sure that if you just put a pile of plutonium greater than the critical mass on the ground, you'd get a "fizzle" (e.g. a nuclear explosion where the chain reaction didn't run to completion) because the heat and pressures of the reaction would blow the mass apart before it properly got going; all real-world nuclear devices have used conventional explosives in either a gun or implosion setup in order to force the critical mass to hold together long enough for the chain reaction to really get going.
    Last edited by factotum; 2015-08-05 at 03:12 AM.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphiox View Post
    How about summoning a Hydrogen Elemental, and then casting Implosion on it?
    It would kill the person casting implosion, but on a theoretical level I love it.

    I'm not sure what that says about me.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...6#post15476516


    I know I'm stealing this from someone else. But it's SO FUNNY

    Zweisteine quoting Razanir:

    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

    From: Razanir

    Bagnold could be one sixty-fourth halfling.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Exotic Elementals

    At the risk of resurrecting a better-dead thread,

    U235 has the weird property of not wanting to exist (actinium is worse in this regard). A U235 only elemental would quickly try to become two elementals of about half the size of the previous one trying to occupy the same space at the same time. Not even safe for the person who created it.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...6#post15476516


    I know I'm stealing this from someone else. But it's SO FUNNY

    Zweisteine quoting Razanir:

    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

    From: Razanir

    Bagnold could be one sixty-fourth halfling.

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