New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Its something I've been pondering for quite a while. And yes, I have like 3 or 4 different conworlds I'm working on simultaneously, which as you can imagine is kinda annoying, but I just can't stop myself.

    Any way, back on topic. I like the concept behind the pokemon games. When you really look at the mechanics, its actually a very in-depth strategy game. I love that aspect of it, but I just can't get over the childishness of it, or the obviously nonsensical society depicted in the franchise.

    My main goal was to try and make a similar game, but one with a world that made more sense. I was initially going for a fantasy theme, rather than the science-fictiony theme the franchise normally has. In my world, the 'poke-balls' (or their equivalent, to be more accurate) are actually magical artifacts from a long dead civilization, thus why the people of the world have access to these highly advanced devices that they themselves obviously can't make. They dig these things up in ruins and they've also recently started mining for them since well they have kinda cleared out the ruins of this civilization. They don't how the things work or why, but they do speculate that they may have been once used in some kind of tournament system, thus why they're bound to strange rules which make no coherent sense (such as being limited to holding 6 monsters at once). Note in my world, I was thinking they would only need one of these devices to hold all their monsters, rather than storing each monster in one device (well, I actually envision them as looking like round crystal balls, they don't actually open or do anything mechanical, but I kinda like to see those as a place-holder for the time being).

    As for why people go out into the wilderness to capture giant obviously dangerous monsters? That was actually a lot easier, and somewhat justifies what they do, though it makes the world pretty dark as a consequence. Basically they use these things as weapons to protect their society from these same monsters. Some will attack towns and eat people and such. And besides, they also make handy weapons in warfare between nations too. In my world, trainers don't participate in some national tournament, they're more like adventurers who travel around aiding whoever they can. I also thought about making it so that only a minority of individuals can actually use these crystals they use to summon these monsters, to explain why not everyone is a trainer, and thus why anyone would bother to hire a trainer to do something for them.

    I actually don't think I like the way this is, but I really can't think of any other way to make a game world like pokemon that actually makes sense, and doesn't make the trainers look like villains who are completely unphased by their own abusive and obviously morally questionable behavior.

    What are your thoughts on this? I'm pretty certain that a game like this could work as a tabletop game (I mean, there is one in existence, obviously not official, but it works). I would really love for it to work, but I'm struggling with it constantly. With my other conworlds, I'm normally more focused on the cultures and history of the world. This one however, I don't know. I do like how I'm not focusing almost entirely on the religion of the world (a bad habit I have with my fantasy setting, I could write a book about their gods and everything, but I couldn't even fill up a page about the mortal inhabitants of the world).

    And I don't know where to post this odd question. I guess this section is the best fit. Anyway, what are your thoughts? How would you make a world like this work?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Unknown
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Well, if you're going for fantasy, why not drop the Pokeballs entirely? Young men and women go out into the world in order to seek out powerful monsters and defeat them. They then capture their essence and bind their souls together. It's like having a collection of spirit animals on call. The numerical limit isn't set in stone, but rather merely the perceived maximum number one human soul can support (although stories abound of those who have trained to hold more), and tournaments for less skilled combatants would normally see smaller numbers of monsters. When not in use, such creatures can be bound to small totems that resemble pokeballs or something.

    Tournaments themselves make a lot of sense. Human culture has always been obsessed with competition, whether in war or in sport. Tournaments allow warriors to use their new creatures, to hone their skills and abilities, and to grow stronger. If this world is indeed so dangerous, they will need to train their war-monsters constantly to keep up with the threats out in the wilderness. Or these tournaments could be used ritualistically, signifying transitions in society. A young boy is accepted as a Man by having his first sanctioned tournament against his father's pokemon. This may be reinforced at a younger age by having a child "capture" their first monster (with parental help of course). Klingon promotions could be in full effect as well. If an army captain is perceived to be lousy at his job, his second could challenge him to a duel for command.

    Or tournaments could be held in place of conflicts, like some sort of Super-Olympics. I'm sure all-out war with Pokemon would devastate the world (and has in some fan theories), so most remaining governments would logically look to settle disputes in a more measured, controlled way.

    And now to sleep. I hope some of this helps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic View Post
    Ninjadeadbeard just ninja'd my post. How apt.
    Ninjadeadbeard's Extended Homebrew

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    That is actually quite interesting. Especially the part about the monsters being bound to the trainer's soul, and there being a natural limit on how many a person can carry around with them at once. It would certainly explain why everywhere you go there's people who for whatever reason don't have 6 monsters with them, I mean even the gym leaders in the games never have 6. I don't think the original elite 4 did either.

    And I guess you are right. Tournaments in a world like this would make sense, but I imagine trainers would still be expected to do something of actual practical use from time to time.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Everyl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBlackWolfx View Post
    That is actually quite interesting. Especially the part about the monsters being bound to the trainer's soul, and there being a natural limit on how many a person can carry around with them at once. It would certainly explain why everywhere you go there's people who for whatever reason don't have 6 monsters with them, I mean even the gym leaders in the games never have 6. I don't think the original elite 4 did either.

    And I guess you are right. Tournaments in a world like this would make sense, but I imagine trainers would still be expected to do something of actual practical use from time to time.
    Quick lunch-break post:
    I find this setting idea interesting, and I have a lot I want to say. For now, I'd just challeng the words "from time to time" in your last sentence above. If most, all, or even a substantial minority of people can summon quasi-magical beasts to do their bidding, they're going to do a lot with it besides fighting. They'll be doing the jobs of draft animals, providing labor, food, transportation, and possibly much more, depending on their powers.
    I have decided I no longer like my old signature, so from now on, the alphorn-wielding lobster yodeler in my profile pic shall be presented without elaboration.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Well I was thinking of that too. They would probably use them for work, wool, possibly meat (though I was thinking they would limit this to monsters that had no other use), transportation (I'd imagine giant flying monsters would be pretty popular for far distance travel and trade). Some may even be kept purely as pets or for dealing with vermin. Oh, and if some monsters could actually summon rain like some poke'mon can, I'd imagine farmers would be using those a lot, particularly in more desolate climates. They could also possibly use electricity-generating monsters to well produce electricity, assuming they had the technology to utilize it. They may also use fire-types for steam power, or just to heat water. They could also use them to start campfires too I guess.

    Oh, another kinda comical thing I just thought up: waste disposal. I mean there are poke'mon that can produce acid, and I think some can eat things that are normally inedible. I imagine some could eat food waste.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Unknown
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBlackWolfx View Post
    Well I was thinking of that too. They would probably use them for work, wool, possibly meat (though I was thinking they would limit this to monsters that had no other use), transportation (I'd imagine giant flying monsters would be pretty popular for far distance travel and trade). Some may even be kept purely as pets or for dealing with vermin. Oh, and if some monsters could actually summon rain like some poke'mon can, I'd imagine farmers would be using those a lot, particularly in more desolate climates. They could also possibly use electricity-generating monsters to well produce electricity, assuming they had the technology to utilize it. They may also use fire-types for steam power, or just to heat water. They could also use them to start campfires too I guess.

    Oh, another kinda comical thing I just thought up: waste disposal. I mean there are poke'mon that can produce acid, and I think some can eat things that are normally inedible. I imagine some could eat food waste.
    Huh. If I didn't know better, I'd say such a world would look just like the modern one, plus whatever cultural veneer you wanted to play with.

    Construction would also be a big use of such monsters, considering some of them are gigantic and other can manipulate earth and stone and metal with ease.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic View Post
    Ninjadeadbeard just ninja'd my post. How apt.
    Ninjadeadbeard's Extended Homebrew

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    I was thinking that they would at the very least have electricity. And to be honest, I wasn't really liking the aesthetics of the world anyway. I was thinking something more in line with the modern world would look better. This would also make it look more like the world you see in the show, though I don't know if that would be a good or bad thing.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    where the wind blows

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Unrelated to being pokemon but related to using animals as the "thing" in the setting, I actually once wrote a campaign setting named "Cattlepunk." But instead of it being cowboy setting, it's Cattlepunk in the line of Steampunk being based on steam. Everything revolves around cattle.

    Basically the story was, it's our earth, but back in the 18th or 19th century, aliens invaded. The alien has advanced biotechnological knowledge, but it turned out they're deathly allergic to lead or iron. So mankind easily defeated them, but not before they completely changed earth's biosphere with their biotech.

    So many deadly monsters appear, but the one thing that changed most are cows, because for some reason cows are the animal that respond best to their biotech. So fast forward to our modern age, now variants of cows and cattles are used for anything. For example, there are methane-producing cows that are used as fuel source, small fire-breathing cows that are used as flamethrower, exploding cows that are used as artillery, etc. Imagination is the limit. The "feel" of the setting would be wild-west cowboyish, but instead of driving boring normal cows cowboys drive laser-shooting cows or whatever. There will be cow-powered train running across the continent, and so on.
    You got Magic Mech in My Police Procedural!
    In this forum, Gaming is Serious Business, and Anyone Can Die. Not even your status as the Ensemble Darkhorse can guarantee your survival.

    Disciple of GITP Trope-Fu Temple And Captain of GITP Valkyrie Squadron.
    Spoiler
    Show


    The OTP in the playground.
    Awesome Elizabeth Shelley by Hollamer
    My Gallery/My Star Wolves 3 LP

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Everyl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Personally, I think that setting it in the equivalent of modern-day technology/society makes it a little too similar to the source material. You basically wind up with Pokemon, but with the serial numbers filed off. If that's what you and your players want, that's fine, but I think it's more interesting to use a more distinctly different setting.

    The Cattlepunk idea is silly, but it makes me think more seriously that a Victorian-esque Industrial Revolution "pokepunk" setting could be interesting to work with. You have modern-ish technology, with basic steam engines, electric motors, and the like available, but not so widespread as to render physical labor obsolete. Many experimental technologies are competing for dominance, meaning that creatures of various types could be useful both in productivity and in tournaments. You can contrast a long-settled nation where most people have common, captive-bred creatures selected for their usefulness and ease of training with rougher wilderness areas full of exotic, wild creatures that are potentially far more powerful, attracting hunters and thrill-seekers. You get to both build an advanced society based on capturing and training quasi-magical creatures and have a great unknown full of risk and reward for adventurers.

    That's my two cents, anyway.
    I have decided I no longer like my old signature, so from now on, the alphorn-wielding lobster yodeler in my profile pic shall be presented without elaboration.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    I was kind of thinking a mixture of a medieval and modern society might be what I go with. I'm planning out their technology level by what the monsters of the world can do for them, and the dangers they face.

    For example, I decided to look up the history of electricity to figure out what effect electricity-producing monsters would have on their technological evolution. The ancient Greeks actually knew about electricity, though only through static. They however never saw its practical implications, to them it was just a mild amusement. It wasn't until Ben Franklin's kite experiment that people started to get the idea that electricity could actually do something significant other than making a feather move towards a piece of amber. And even then electrical technology didn't really start to take off until the invention of the battery.

    Now, these people live in a world full of several varieties of monsters that can produce huge amounts of electricity. I imagine they would realize pretty fast the power of electricity, and they wouldn't really need batteries to do experiments with high amounts of it either. Thus they would probably develop electrical technology rather quickly. Batteries would only serve to store power so you don't have to have a monster sitting perpetually zapping something just to make it work. Power plants in the world I imagine would just have electric-types zap some sort of machine (possibly giant batteries) to create power rather than burning fossil fuels or whatever.

    And like ninjadeadbeard mentioned, they would likely use them in construction too. Though I was thinking they would probably be building their structures out of stone and such. I don't think they would learn to make steel-reinforced concrete buildings all that fast, no matter what lived in their world. In fact, they may be inclined to not do that. I have one monster envisioned which is basically a giant floating metal crystal that produces magnetism. And yes, the thing is inspired by magnemite. It essentially needs two different resources: ferus minerals to grow and make more of itself, and electricity to power themselves. I imagine they could re-charge themselves simply by provoking wild monsters that zap things they view as a threat. I imagine they would also levitate into the sky during a lightning storm in order to literally get hit by lightning.

    They use their magnetism not just to move themselves around, but also to rip minerals out of the ground to feed themselves. Miners use them to pull ore out of the ground. And I imagine they could also create what I call I 'magnetic storm'. Basically, if they get too numerous they can band together to produce huge amounts of magnetism, allowing them to tear ferus minerals out of the ground at an astonishing rate, and combine that with a lightning storm to supercharge all of them, this could result in a run-away chain-reaction where they multiply exponentially while tearing any ferus materials out of everything they get near, which would include the iron in the bodies of living things. Considering this, people would probably be inclined to NOT build their cities out of metal. And besides, I imagine that they would be drawn to sources of electricity, and large metal deposits. Though come to think of it, power plants might have a problem with these things coming over and trying to feed off the electricity they're building, or they may intentionally touch power lines just to feed off the electrical current, likely causing a black-out.

    Yeah, in this world I imagine there would be 'rangers' whose job it is to keep the wild populations in check. And by that I mean they actually murder wild monsters in order to make sure they don't become too numerous.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    You don't need to make the training ability esclusive based on some people being born able and some not. The training, equipment ,soul binding and risk inherent in dealing with dangerous monster can be enough to limit the amount of trainers.

    Speaking of which, would you be able to switch out your monsters or are you stuck with what you've got once it's bound.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    It would kinda suck if you were stuck with the first 4-6 you acquire. And besides, the point of this game is to mimic the rules of pokemon while giving it a far more serious back-story. Pokemon is a really complex strategy game, which many people are put off of because of the kiddy theme. I suffer from the same problem, so I aim to create essentially a rip-off that isn't kiddy.

    And just so we know, there are many rip-offs out there, including actual online games. In fact, one called 'monster mmorpg' is what inspired me to take up this project. If you see the artwork for the creatures they have, you start to understand why I want to make a serious poke-rip-off.

    And honestly, I wasn't really planning on releasing it, it was just something for my own entertainment. But since there are people on here that are interested in it, perhaps I should give it out to the public. Though I have no way to make a PDF, all I can do is make a simple text file in wordpad. A game like this, filled with all these bizarre creatures, would probably need artwork too, and I've never been a good artist.

    Guess I'll see where it leads once I finish it, assuming I ever do with my 2 other rpg projects going at the same time...

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    I am also interested in this, and could provide some artwork in the bizarre creature department if you want.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    I am also attempting to add a pokemon feel to one of my campaign sub-settings. I am moving towards a general usage of 1-2 money (1 combat, 1 utility) for the most part. But, tournament style fighting does not only involve the monsters, but the trainers are expected to fight alongside their mon.
    Pokemon I have bred (4-5 IV):

    Brave Chespins - some marked Speeds are 31 others are 0. A good deal are Bulletproof.
    Sassy Slowpokes - most are Regen
    Quiet Skrelp
    Assorted Mienfoo & Meditite some w/Fake Out (no HA)
    Relaxed Wish Eevee
    Naive Elekid w/Ice Punch

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    In that pokemon tabletop adventures, trainers actually have classes. There are 6 basic classes each of which give access to 6 prestige classes. Obviously the gimmick doesn't really work. One of the classes is coordinator, and its 6 prestige classes specialize in various kinds of pokemon, such as cute ones, pretty ones, scary ones (not sure about that last one, but you get the idea).

    It doesn't really work, its overly complicated (you don't need a complicated system for the human characters since well they're kinda not the focus), and honestly many of the classes look the same. Particularly a trainer and breeder essentially accomplish the same thing: making your pokemon stronger.

    But that doesn't mean they don't have some interesting ideas. Like you mentioned, you can actually play a martial artist in the game and fight along-side your pokemon! I always thought that was a neat option. You can also play a psychic, and its various prestige classes let you become a firebreather or some other elemental thing.

    As for more ideas I had for the setting. Inspired by the claim that alakazam is actually far more intelligent than any human, I decided pretty quickly that not all the monsters would just be feral animals running around in the woods. Some would actually form societies of their own. The one I had in mind was a psychic/magic dual-type (yeah, the typing is kinda different from pokemon, mostly because I find some distinctions like 'normal' to be kinda silly) which would probably have a kind of bug motif to them. They live in a tribal society far from civilization, which is because no one wants to live anywhere near these things. The animal-like monsters are bad enough, but most are outright stupid and at best have the intelligence of a chimpanzee. These things have the same powers all monsters do, and are just as smart as humans.

    And actually thinking about this, I don't see why they would remain more primitive when they're clearly smarter than humans (well, you could say they have more sense than to exploit and pollute the environment, but that seems kinda silly). Some species may actually be just as advanced as the humans, in fact they may even live alongside humans in cities. I also had an idea where once race could actually be highly technologically advanced, to the extreme that they now live in colonies on the moon and occasionally descend to earth for research or experimenting on the poor and relatively backwards inhabitants.

    Honestly though, this idea could result in a race system like what you see in fantasy games. Whether or not that would be a good or bad thing, I don't know. It does deviate from the source material, but the point here is NOT to copy the show, or rationlize it, the point is to make a game like pokemon that treats itself far more seriously. Obviously I'm mostly focusing on the conculture part of it. The monsters themselves really just need a more realistic aesthetic, and to be far more of a threat. I might even plan out a food web for them.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBlackWolfx View Post
    It would kinda suck if you were stuck with the first 4-6 you acquire. And besides, the point of this game is to mimic the rules of pokemon while giving it a far more serious back-story. Pokemon is a really complex strategy game, which many people are put off of because of the kiddy theme. I suffer from the same problem, so I aim to create essentially a rip-off that isn't kiddy.
    You could have it be that people can capture any number of monsters and bind them (up to a limit by the strength of their soul, number of crystals they have, whatever), but only a certain number can be available at a given moment. The others can be made active through a ritual/super- or magi-tech/whatever. If pokeballs are ancient relics, there could be something like the thing that lets you trade out with those at Prof. Oak's. I think the soul-binding idea is better thematically, though, so using a ritual to 'orient' some closer to the edge of your soul could be better. The others are there, just buried deeper.

    And you can keep legends of folk who can hold more than 6 'at the edge of their soul', ready to summon.
    This could also explain, if you like the idea, a concept that folk become slightly like those souls they have close to the edge. It's not only that martial artists go for Fighting Types, but having mostly Fighting Types slowly and subtly alters your personality. But that's what you get for binding things to your soul.

    This, in addition to the inherent risks of adventuring, would help explain why not everyone would be a trainer. Also gives reason for an anti-pokeman faction or reason for commoners to be suspicious (but still probably happy to get help from) a traveling trainer.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    On my back, in my heart
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    This could actually be really interesting.

    Would there be regular animals alongside these critters, or would all the wildlife be 'monsters'? How are 'monsters' different fundamentally?

    I do like the soul-binding thing. It has some very cool potential. It could also explain why, after you beat up a monster, it suddenly listens to you. The soul-binding process actually could have a taming effect. It could also provide a justification for why you faint if you lose... Though, I feel like 6 is a lot of customized mons to keep track of at once. Lots of record-keeping, status effects, and such, you know? Maybe commoners can have one mon, and 'trainers' can have, like, 2-4? Maybe there's a level-based limiter of some sort. I dunno. Also, I think there should be some non-soul storage method. Maybe after the training revolution, the humans figured out you can put monsters in gems of some sort?

    As to the mentioned primitive monster-society, it could well be primitive for a lot of reasons. Maybe they're not inherently social, or their communities are isolated. A lack of communication and connection would slow technological progress. Maybe they are advanced, but it doesn't look like it from the outside. Maybe they just can't develop certain keystone technologies because they lack the materials in their native habitat. If you want to limit players to humans, maybe humans are unique in that they're the only creatures that can tame/train?
    My Homebrew
    Five-time champion of the GITP monster competition!

    Current Projects:
    Crossroads: the New World: A pathfinder campaign setting about an alternate history of North America, where five empire collide in a magical land full of potential. On the road to publication!

    Epic Avatar and Sigitar by AlterForm
    Spoiler
    Show

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    I wasn't planning on having normal animals, though technically some may as well be. Not all have fanatastic abilities; some as I said are only good as pets, or food. Not all are actually useful in combat or labor or industry or anything of practical use.

    And I did think about making it so only humans can take control of other monsters, so that the non-human races couldn't be trainers.

    As for the distinction between the monsters and humans? Really, its just that humans can talk and make things. Unless a monster can do one or the other, they view it as something that is better off under their control than running around in the wild. However, if they can talk, and/or they can make things (be it tools or high-tech technology), then they assume they have the ability to differentiate right from wrong and such. They view them as people rather than as animals. Though it also has to do with the fact that many people are creeped out by monsters that can actually talk to them, which makes sense considering how they treat most non-human lifeforms. And its also partially because of the 'uncanny valley' effect, a phenomenon where things become creepy to us if they strongly resemble humans, but aren't quite identical to humans. Think about it, if you were a farmer or a butcher, wouldn't you be creeped out if one the animals you slaughter suddenly spoke to you?

    Either way, I still like the idea of there being non-human intelligences for the players to interact with, even if these non-humans aren't playable. Though if they were in the game, some people would probably want to play as them. Just look at D&D. You can probably play as any monster you want in that game, I mean at one point they even released an entire book that was all about using monsters as playable races!
    Last edited by xBlackWolfx; 2015-08-06 at 04:16 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBlackWolfx View Post
    And its also partially because of the 'uncanny valley' effect, a phenomenon where things become creepy to us if they strongly resemble humans, but aren't quite identical to humans. Think about it, if you were a farmer or a butcher, wouldn't you be creeped out if one the animals you slaughter suddenly spoke to you?
    If Crows were always able to speak and had higher level thinking and society and such, I doubt it would effect how I think about cows. I find it highly unlikely that a creature that talk would ever be adopted as cattle, except in desperate situations. Thought the chance of a creature being considered an abomination to be burned with fire drastically increases with how similar it looks to humans.

    You could have a very intelligent creature who considers humans it's slaves while humans consider them pets, like cats. With the question of who is actually in charge being left up in the air.

    An idea I heard in this video is that human are a kind of Pokemon and if as mentioned previously hands and the ability to build stuff is what separates man and monster in this world, what's stopping someone from binding another human to their soul? Sense the binding process allows you to tame otherwise hostile animals, wouldn't that mean that a person bound to you would be submissive to you whether they like it or not. Depending on how the process works, you could be able to get rid of a person by binding them and bringing them far from the edge. There would be no body so no evidence other then tools used in the binding process, which any self respecting trainer should have access to any way. Laws and morals would prevent most people from doing that, and the remaining madmen and control freaks who do it would make excellent antagonists to oppose or villeins to become. I imagine a urban legend of a man in a dark cloak stalking the streets at night looking for victims and retreating to the sewers at night to train them to do horrid tasks.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Milo v3's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Intersex

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    iirc Pokemon Tabletop United has a splatbook "Game of Throes" that describes how you can run a fantasy pokemon setting decently.
    Spoiler: Old Avatar by Aruius
    Show
    http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/Zeritho/Koboldbard.png

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GorinichSerpant View Post
    If Crows were always able to speak and had higher level thinking and society and such, I doubt it would effect how I think about cows. I find it highly unlikely that a creature that talk would ever be adopted as cattle, except in desperate situations.
    I meant as in the monsters they capture and force to do their bidding would disturb them if they talked back. Doing these kind of things to animals is one thing, but suddenly having one reveal that it does have a mind like yours would be quite unsettling.

    And yes, you do mention a significant problem: why is it that only monsters can be captured this way? You could say the mind-control part just doesn't work on smarter beings, or beings that can act against their own instincts. But still, it should be possible to 'capture' humans, or really anything regardless of its intelligence. You could say the crystals they use don't work on some species, for unknown reasons (like I said, they have no idea how these things work, how they were made, or why they work the way they do). But this looks like a 'wizard did it' excuse. Though granted, if the makers of these things could in fact put limitations on it making it unusable against certain beings, why wouldn't they do it? Still, some people would probably make crystals that could capture sentients, even if it was technically illegal.

    You could just gloss over that; as some people have pointed out about the Underdark in other threads, even D&D tends to gloss over things that clearly make no sense.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    What if when a bound creature is sapient it can fight back and take back control if it out will powers trainer so they swap places, the bound becomes the trainer and the trainer becomes the bound. This would explain why people usually bind themselves to monsters, it's because instinct gives no instruction for mental battles and they also lack both thought and imagination to figure it out themselves. This also means that binding psychic/mind/what have you types would be the most risky as they could the ability to fight back.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Hmm, well that is a good point. An intelligent being may be able to figure out how to escape, in fact if you think about it, sapients would probably be taught how to escape the things in case they were captured! And likely at a very young age too. They could also have some sort of magic (like enchanted items) which protect them from being captured, or at the very least make it easier for them to escape.

    And this all does bring about another interesting implication: people may actually allow themselves to be captured just to like sneak across borders or stuff like that. It could even be illegal to take crystals into prisons because they could be used to sneak people in or out, and also possibly illegal goods too assuming the things can also capture inanimate objects.

    One thing I was thinking about before I even started this thread, though I really didn't like the idea, was that when a trainer summons a monster, he's not actually summoning the thing he defeated, he's summoning a copy of it. Essentially the monster he fights with is some kind of magical automaton that is a carbon copy of an actual living thing. But I didn't like the idea of the monsters being mindless constructs, and besides this opens up possibilities like them trying to find some way to create additional copies of 'captured' monsters.

    The capturing soul thing actually makes the most sense. As has been mentioned, it would help explain why most trainers don't have more than 3 or 4 monsters, and the maximum possible seems to be six. This also kinda makes the whole capturing thing a bit more humane too. This could actually make the monster immortal, as long as the trainer lives. Also there is a possibility that if the trainer dies somehow (like he dies in a cave or somewhere else out in the wilds where no one will ever find his remains) the monsters could be freed immedietly, or go to the afterlife with him. I kinda like to think that's what the inhabitants of this conworld believe, though they don't actually have any way to verify it, its just a religious belief.

    However, thinking about it, it does cause one obvious problem: how does he store monsters he's not carrying around with him? I guess you could say he can only have access to up to 6 at a time, no matter how large his actual collection may be, and needs to go to an alter or some-such to change them out.

    I really do appreciate all the help by the way, you've all really done a lot to help me flesh this out.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBlackWolfx View Post
    Hmm, well that is a good point. An intelligent being may be able to figure out how to escape, in fact if you think about it, sapients would probably be taught how to escape the things in case they were captured! And likely at a very young age too. They could also have some sort of magic (like enchanted items) which protect them from being captured, or at the very least make it easier for them to escape.

    And this all does bring about another interesting implication: people may actually allow themselves to be captured just to like sneak across borders or stuff like that. It could even be illegal to take crystals into prisons because they could be used to sneak people in or out, and also possibly illegal goods too assuming the things can also capture inanimate objects.

    One thing I was thinking about before I even started this thread, though I really didn't like the idea, was that when a trainer summons a monster, he's not actually summoning the thing he defeated, he's summoning a copy of it. Essentially the monster he fights with is some kind of magical automaton that is a carbon copy of an actual living thing. But I didn't like the idea of the monsters being mindless constructs, and besides this opens up possibilities like them trying to find some way to create additional copies of 'captured' monsters.
    Being captured as a pokemon seems to permanently change a pokemon. They still retain their basic personality, but is now oriented towards their trainer, and only broken in extreme circumstances. You could say that anyone held captive for a certain period (basically, long enough to be useful for smuggling, but not so long you can't try to escape if captured) is permanently altered, or at least altered in a way that takes a lot of recuperation to fix. Or maybe breaking the soulbinding damages a human's soul, so a smuggler who is 'freed' is now somehow less human?
    This could make for a special type of 'soulless assassin' guild, if you wanted a dark faction in your world.

    Though, all in all, I think it'd be best to have a division between humans and monsters. Perhaps it's not widely known, but all monsters are former wildlife that were mutated by a magical event, thus explaining why the magical artifacts work on them and why there are no normal animals?

    However, thinking about it, it does cause one obvious problem: how does he store monsters he's not carrying around with him? I guess you could say he can only have access to up to 6 at a time, no matter how large his actual collection may be, and needs to go to an alter or some-such to change them out.
    I think a ritual of some sort, perhaps at a special altar (linked to the crystals.) I mentioned above the idea of carrying numerous souls within oneself, but it takes a ritual/focus-point to draw some 'close to the surface' where you can summon them.

    Perhaps something to make it how you can't have more than one of a type (like 50 Squirttles). Perhaps if you bind one than one soul of a the same creature, they get blurred within you, damaging both souls and weakening the construct you can bind. But this isn't necessary; it just seems nice for tabletop to have some limitation on how much you can carry.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Though, all in all, I think it'd be best to have a division between humans and monsters. Perhaps it's not widely known, but all monsters are former wildlife that were mutated by a magical event, thus explaining why the magical artifacts work on them and why there are no normal animals?
    But sould binding humans has so much opportunity for storytelling, Souless Assassins, control crazy madmen, people willingly becoming bound, the possibilities are to interesting to pass by.

    If sapient beings can take over the bind and become the master, and there are sapient monsters, then you could end up with a situation where say a intelligent lion-like beast that each day summons a human to brush knots out of it's mane. That sounds like it would be an interesting NPC to encounter in the wilderness.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GorinichSerpant View Post
    But sould binding humans has so much opportunity for storytelling, Souless Assassins, control crazy madmen, people willingly becoming bound, the possibilities are to interesting to pass by.

    If sapient beings can take over the bind and become the master, and there are sapient monsters, then you could end up with a situation where say a intelligent lion-like beast that each day summons a human to brush knots out of it's mane. That sounds like it would be an interesting NPC to encounter in the wilderness.
    Very true.
    In Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker, people buy and sell 'breath' (essentially the soul, though losing yours isn't too bad.) You might want to look into the impact of not having a breath in that setting for how the soulbound, or formerly soulbound and now soulbroken, function. There are pros and cons to not having a breath, and you might want similar for the soulless.
    A big plus could be if you are bound and freed enough, your soul is so damaged you can't be bound again. Essentially, you are a neutral, soulless being. What impact this has on personality is up to the worldbuilder.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    You could just say that the crystals don't actually mind control anything, they have to take the crystal to some place and have them perform a ritual to accomplish that. Otherwise, summoning the thing would just have it either try to run away or try to kill the trainer.

    And honestly, this is starting to sound a bit too sinister to me. But what can really be done to tone down the mind control thing? I guess you could say its similar to taming in the real world. I mean elephants in india are taken out of the wild and trained to do things for them. And other animals like wolves are treated this way too to some extent (though they aren't as inclined to perform tricks as domesticated dogs are, they'll only do the trick as long as it amuses them).

    Or maybe I'm foolish for trying to make something light out of this? Yeah, I want some more serious, which will naturally be darker, but this is kinda taking it too far to me. And by that I'm referring to all this stuff about enslaving souls.

    And for the record, I was kind of thinking that humans and the monsters weren't from the same world. Either the humans were alien invaders and the world was actually the home world of the monsters, or maybe the other way around, or perhaps they were both native. I guess you could use that to explain why the crystals don't work on humans. It would still disable you from having sapient monsters that build societies of their own, but having that may not be necessary.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Mesquite, TX

    Default Re: Poke'mon-like game that is more mature, your thoughts?

    You may interested in giving the following fanfic a read Pokemon: The Origin of Species

    It's a very gritty, very rational examination of what pokemon would be like in a 'real world' setting. Setting out at age 11 is not a childish fantasy power trip, it's a necessary fact of life because if you are not capable of protecting yourself by that age, you die.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •