Call for discussion: Godsmoot-themed WW

[pendell]

So I'm reading the current comic and was thinking of a variant on werewolf to play it. Rules:

1) Normally, there are three to four werewolves in a game. In this game, Team Werewolf is actually Team Vampire, and starts with only one Vampire.

2) The vampire will be given a staff with limited charges, such that they can make up to 3 or 4 minion vampires. So ultimately Team Vampire can have up to 5 players, 4 of them "converted" during game play from Team Villager (in this case, Team Priest) to Team Vampire. Conversion occurs overnight: You go to bed a villager and wake up as a vampire. For balance reasons, there must be a maximum number of conversions possible, and once that number is reached no more vampires can be created, even if existing vampires are destroyed. Team Vampire can simply kill a villager rather than convert him under the cap, and above the cap must kill the target.

3) This allows Team Vampire to, in essence, "Pick" players from Team Villager to play alongside of. It's also how Team Vampire will get its power roles. Team Vampire initially has only one role: The Alpha. Want a Devil? Figure out who the Villager Sage is and vamp him. Want a baner? Find the villager baner and vamp him. Vampires retain the memories and abilities of their former existence, which they will now employ on behalf of Team Vampire.

4) Neither vampirization nor baning is reported; there was simply no night kill that night -- apparently.

---

I've tried to balance the play by starting off the Vampires initially very weak -- they have only one player and no power roles. However, with careful choices Team Vampire can take away the Villager power roles while adding those roles to their own team, not to mention having their pick of fellow vampires to terrorize the Godsmoot.

What do you think? Does this sound like an interesting game?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Elenna]

You should probably discuss this in the Structured Games sub-forum. Sounds interesting though!

[Duck999]

For balance reasons, banking would have to stop both kills and recruiting. The vamps getting power roles would be luck though. Until they find the sage/seer, they have no way of knowing a power role until they recruit one. Also, unless you use more than the basic roles, some things may be unbalanced. For example, a scry result could be incorrect when someone gets vamped, so a seer could not reveal scries other than vamp scries. There is no "clearing" anybody.

[pendell]

For balance reasons, banking would have to stop both kills and recruiting.

Banking? I haven't heard the phrase before and I've played a few games. A quick google search turns up nothing in the context of werewolf for that word. So I'm going to have to plead ignorancel would you mind explaining what that word means in terms of werewolf?

Until they find the sage/seer, they have no way of knowing a power role until they recruit one.

Or they recruit someone who knows what the power roles are. For instance, if you recruit a mason, you now know the identity of ALL masons. And if you recruit someone whom the seer has been in contact with...

There's a definite random element here. A well-chosen early recruit could reveal enough power roles that you could either learn or deduce much of Team Villager's defenses. Or, with poor choices, you wind up with four ordinary villagers.

A really skilled Alpha vampire could offset the random element by knowing the other players, and knowing patterns to look for, allowing them to make educated guesses as to who holds the power roles. Of course , people who have played the game will have a limited subset of players to choose from who could possibly pull that role off as well.

At any rate, the name of the game is *subversion*, to identify the enemy's defenses and convert them over to your side, just like in the old horror movies. The Moot's own defense systems are turned against it, like an immunodeficiency disease.

Also, unless you use more than the basic roles, some things may be unbalanced. For example, a scry result could be incorrect when someone gets vamped, so a seer could not reveal scries other than vamp scries. There is no "clearing" anybody.

Scries can return faulty information in any case; IIRC Alpha always scries as villager. Also, again, brains have to be employed -- while you cannot guarantee a scry for all time you can count the number of kill-less nights which have occurred, and from that deduce how many recruitments have happened, absent banings, and from that you can deduce how solid your scry is likely to remain.

If you want to factor the number of banings into the equation you'll have to somehow contact the baner...

It occurs to me a ruthless team could also deliberately set up a decoy villager to be vamped by feeding him/her false information and making him/her appear to be a power role. If it happens you not only feed Team Vampire disinformation but you know beyond a shadow of a doubt one staking target, causing team vampire to waste a recruitment.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Indarra]

If the Alpha Vampire were lynched, would the Priests take and destroy the staff?

[pendell]

If the Alpha Vampire were lynched, would the Priests take and destroy the staff?

I don't think so... killing the alpha in the early part of the game would mean a sharply limited number of vampires. For balance reasons they should continue to have the ability to recruit up to their maximum even if the Alpha is staked.

I'm willing to consider the point, though. This is a discussion, so if there's a bad idea let's fix it!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Duck999]

Banking? I haven't heard the phrase before and I've played a few games. A quick google search turns up nothing in the context of werewolf for that word. So I'm going to have to plead ignorancel would you mind explaining what that word means in terms of werewolf?

It means my computer has autocorrect that I keep forgetting about. Baning*

Or they recruit someone who knows what the power roles are. For instance, if you recruit a mason, you now know the identity of ALL masons. And if you recruit someone whom the seer has been in contact with...

There's a definite random element here. A well-chosen early recruit could reveal enough power roles that you could either learn or deduce much of Team Villager's defenses. Or, with poor choices, you wind up with four ordinary villagers.

A really skilled Alpha vampire could offset the random element by knowing the other players, and knowing patterns to look for, allowing them to make educated guesses as to who holds the power roles. Of course , people who have played the game will have a limited subset of players to choose from who could possibly pull that role off as well.

At any rate, the name of the game is *subversion*, to identify the enemy's defenses and convert them over to your side, just like in the old horror movies. The Moot's own defense systems are turned against it, like an immunodeficiency disease.

With the luck of the draw, the vamp team could become instantly overpowered. However, that is unlikely. I do like the idea of masons never knowing when to stop trusting each other...

Scries can return faulty information in any case; IIRC Alpha always scries as villager. Also, again, brains have to be employed -- while you cannot guarantee a scry for all time you can count the number of kill-less nights which have occurred, and from that deduce how many recruitments have happened, absent banings, and from that you can deduce how solid your scry is likely to remain.

If you want to factor the number of banings into the equation you'll have to somehow contact the baner...

It occurs to me a ruthless team could also deliberately set up a decoy villager to be vamped by feeding him/her false information and making him/her appear to be a power role. If it happens you not only feed Team Vampire disinformation but you know beyond a shadow of a doubt one staking target, causing team vampire to waste a recruitment.

Also, the vamps could pick up a fool and never know it... until they scry someone else as a vamp. Luck of the draw could work to the advantage of town or wolves, so there is some balance there.

[pendell]

Understood. Yes, exactly. Baning a villager [a holy symbol? No shortage of those ... ] would prevent both recruiting and killing, as in the case of the strip 996 where Belkar's little gadget meant he couldn't be drained 'coz Protection From Evil.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Internet Flea]

You might want to check out Sanity's old Reverse Werewolf games, which had a somewhat similar theme (no power roles though). If nothing else it brings up the question of what happens if the vampire dies before he can recruit anybody.

The staff should have a cooldown, or else the ideal strategy will be to recruit one person Night 1 so the vampires can't be wiped out with a stray lynch, then use all the recruitments in a row late in the game. (Cooldowns also come with their own maximum recruit limit, as the ability can only reasonably be used x times before the game ends.)

I'd say if the vampire can recruit the Seer and whatnot then the village should be able to at least slow down the recruitment. Maybe if the main vampire gets killed the staff has a longer cooldown.

[Xihirli]

*Sigh*

I'll be Gontor...

[Elenna]

So what's happening with this?

[pendell]

Are you interested?

I haven't really tried to pull anything together yet. One thing I would need, since I've never actually led a werewolf game, is a good co-lead with experience.

The other issue is I'm counting the cost in terms of my time -- do I have the time to do this? I'm already running one game. Do I have the time and energy to run this game as well? 'Cause I also have work.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Elenna]

I'm interested in playing. I've never narrated a game before either, so I can't help with that. You might want to ask in Werewolf Central.

Whether or not you have time/energy is obviously your decision.

[Luizeu]

I would play as well

[pendell]

Just spent four days fighting off food poisoning and I'm still weak. Sorry guys, if someone else wants to do it you have my permission, but I don't have the time or the energy to run a WW right now. Maybe at some point in the future...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Murska]

It's an interesting idea. The game would be quite luck-based, from Alpha getting lynched on day one to him recruiting the Seer on night one, but that's not really a problem. We're not competing for prizes, we're playing a game to have fun, and in the majority of cases the game won't be entirely unbalanced. If it so happens that it is, then just let it play out and maybe try again.

[Luizeu]

As you were the one who gave the idea, its only fair that we wait until you return

[Elenna]

Hope you get better soon!

So would this game include a mechanic for destroying the world?