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    Default Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Your patron is Acererak, once a cambion lich who grasped at godlike power only to lose his grip on reality. Now a vestige of his former self, the only way for him to truly exist is by granting power to mortals fool enough to seek his name and carve his sign.

    EXPANDED SPELL LIST
    Spell Level Spells
    1st Detect Evil and Good, Inflict Wounds
    2nd Hold Person, Ray of Enfeeblement
    3rd Fear, Speak with Dead
    4th Blight, Dimension Door
    5th Hold Monster, Unhallow*

    *(The unhallow spell functions just like the hallow spell, only it cannot produce the Courage, Daylight, or Energy Protection effects and requires, instead of herbs, the blood and ashes of once-living creatures. The unhallow spell does not fail if the radius includes an area already under the effect of a hallow spell, in fact, casting the unhallow spell on such an area dispels the existing hallow spell effect.)

    Lichloved
    Starting at at 1st level you have advantage on all Deception, Persuasion, and Stealth checks you make against Undead, and have resistance to necrotic damage. As an action you may detect the number and presence of, and the direction to, all Undead creatures within 60ft of you. Undead with an Intelligence score of 3 or lower are not hostile toward you without being provoked (though this non-hostility does not generally extend to any of your allies).

    Paralyzing Touch
    At 6th level, you may make a melee spell attack as an action. If this attack hits it deals 3d6 cold damage and the target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your warlock spell save DC or be paralyzed for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. After using this ability you cannot do so again until you complete a short or long rest.

    Armored in Death
    At 10th level, your flesh hardens around your bones, going pale in color and cold to the touch. You gain resistance to cold and poison damage and are immune to the poisoned condition. While you wear no armor your armor class equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier.

    Soul-Devouring Power
    You gain additional arcanums: disintegrate at 14th level, finger of death at 16th, dominate monster at 18th level, and power word kill at 20th. Your spellcasting ability for these arcanums is Intelligence.

    Any time you cast one of these additional arcanums you risk madness, forcing yourself to make a DC 23 Charisma saving throw with disadvantage. If your save fails, you experience 1 indefinite madness, and if both of the rolled dice would have failed the save you also experience a long-term and short-term madness (DMG pgs 258-260).
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2017-01-22 at 04:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Hey, specific warlock patrons are my thing you copycat !
    (just kidding, obviously)

    Now, let me take a look at these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Your patron is Acererak, once a cambion lich who grasped at godlike power only to lose his grip on reality. Now a vestige of his former self, the only way for him to truly exist is by granting power to mortals fool enough to seek his name and carve his sign.

    EXPANDED SPELL LIST
    Spell Level Spells
    1st Detect Evil and Good, Inflict Wounds
    2nd Hold Person, Ray of Enfeeblement
    3rd Fear, Speak with Dead
    4th Blight, Ice Storm
    5th Hold Monster, Unhallow*

    *(The unhallow spell functions just like the hallow spell, only it cannot produce the Courage, Daylight, or Energy Protection effects and requires, instead of herbs, the blood and ashes of once-living creatures. The unhallow spell does not fail if the radius includes an area already under the effect of a hallow spell, in fact, casting the unhallow spell on such an area dispels the existing hallow spell effect.)
    All of these seem fine.

    Lichloved
    Starting at at 1st level you have advantage on all Deception, Persuasion, and Stealth checks you make against Undead, and have resistance to necrotic damage. As an action you detect the number and presence of, and the direction to, all Undead creatures within 60ft of you. Undead with an Intelligence score of 3 or lower are not hostile toward you without being provoked (though this non-hostility does not generally extend to any of your allies).
    Ah, lichloved. I remember that feat. The feat itself was nice in 3.5, and this is more powerful. Which is a good thing, because the first one was kinda meh.

    Paralyzing Touch
    At 6th level, you may make a melee spell attack as an action. If this attack hits it deals 3d6 cold damage and the target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your warlock spell save DC or paralyzed for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. After using this ability you cannot do so again until you complete a short or long rest.
    Considering the target gets a save every round, I think this ability should be granted twice, or maybe three times per rest. Or maybe make it a strength saving throw instead. Up to you.

    Armored in Death
    Beginning at 10th level your armor class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier as long as you wear no armor and do not carry a shield. You gain resistance to cold and poison damage and become immune to necrotic damage. Whenever you would be dealt necrotic damage, instead you regain a number of hit points equal to half the necrotic damage you would normally take.
    This might be a bit much. I would loose the part about healing from the necrotic damage, but keep the immunity to it.

    Soul-Devouring Power
    At 14th level gain an additional arcanum: finger of death. At 17th level you gain another additional arcanum: power word kill. When you use one of these additional arcanums you risk madness, forcing yourself to make an Intelligence saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. If your save fails, you experience 1 indefinite madness; however, even if your save succeeds, unless the result was 5 or more points higher than the DC, you also experience 1 long-term madness. If your save failed by 5 or more points, you also experience 1 short-term madness (DMG pgs 258-260).
    I wouldn't want to risk madness just for casting these spells. The risk/reward is heavily stacked towards risk. If you're going to make people crazy, you need to offer them something bigger than two arcanums.


    Really like the class. Wish I had come up with the idea for lichloved when I was building the subclass for Orcus, but oh well. Nicely done.

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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Yes! Work those madness mechanics! Edit because ninja'd: most of the madness effects are really minor and they're depressingly easy to cure if you know a mid-level cleric. So I don't think the risk/reward is a problem. And Finger of Death is a hot spell. The DMG suggests Wis or Cha for the save though, and I'm inclined to agree.

    I... I don't have anything constructive to add. I'm just reading through all the homebrew warlock patrons because I'm going to do one soon and I know nothing about warlocks.
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2015-08-09 at 02:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Yes! Work those madness mechanics! Edit because ninja'd: most of the madness effects are really minor and they're depressingly easy to cure if you know a mid-level cleric. So I don't think the risk/reward is a problem. And Finger of Death is a hot spell. The DMG suggests Wis or Cha for the save though, and I'm inclined to agree.

    I... I don't have anything constructive to add. I'm just reading through all the homebrew warlock patrons because I'm going to do one soon and I know nothing about warlocks.
    I can't say I'm that familiar with the madness mechanics. If they're that easy to cure, than they shouldn't be a problem.

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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    Considering the target gets a save every round, I think this ability should be granted twice, or maybe three times per rest. Or maybe make it a strength saving throw instead. Up to you.
    Well, the Hold Person and Hold Monster spells work the same way (as does the Lich's Paralyzing Touch ability, which this is a direct copy of). Essentially, it gives them a melee range Hold Monster spell once per short rest at 6th level that doesn't require concentration. Put that way... it seems perhaps too powerful as is, but I think I'll keep it there for now.

    This might be a bit much. I would loose the part about healing from the necrotic damage, but keep the immunity to it.
    You're probably right. Most undead in 5e no longer heal from necrotic damage, and the lich is no different. Will do.

    I wouldn't want to risk madness just for casting these spells. The risk/reward is heavily stacked towards risk. If you're going to make people crazy, you need to offer them something bigger than two arcanums.
    Well, keep in mind, that's two additional high-level spell slots the warlock is getting, one 7th and one 9th, on top of his normal allotment of arcanums. So that gives him a slight edge over any other full-caster in the game. I had considered giving him four extra arcanums at the potential cost of sanity, doubling his Mystic Arcanum slots, which would be a huge power shift. What do you think?
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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Well, keep in mind, that's two additional high-level spell slots the warlock is getting, one 7th and one 9th, on top of his normal allotment of arcanums. So that gives him a slight edge over any other full-caster in the game. I had considered giving him four extra arcanums at the potential cost of sanity, doubling his Mystic Arcanum slots, which would be a huge power shift. What do you think?
    Seeing that I was misguided on how powerful (or rather, how unpowerful) madness is when you have a cleric in the party, I approve of the feature as is.

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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Well, I edited it anyway. :P
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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Your 1st level abilities definitely fit the theme presented and for the most part I like what you have. The part that makes me take a step backwards is actually from the resistance from level 1. That is a huge boon for a first level, even if it is a rare damage type. I've seen it floating around, but someone posted a mechanic that intrigued me that had you start off after a long rest with a number of Temp HP = twice your Warlock Level + Cha. With everything else that is gained with it, maybe add that mechanic for that extra undead style durability and introduce necr resistance at 6th level.

    The lich's paralyzing touch looks quite at home at 6th and is a nice add.

    I feel that 10th level is stacked. . . like a lot. It comes with a boss unarmored, 2 resistances, and an immunity all before 14th level. If you want those kinds of defenses I would try to sprinkle them through the class from 6th level onward. I understand the want to have a Cha based unarmored, but that doesn't feel very lich-like to me.

    The 14th level is one that I am having a hard time making a full call on. In one hand it gives and keeps on giving long after the other patrons (save maybe the fiends 1st level feature). But in the other hand, it keeps on taking from you. It is a huge risk if you can't get a little help from your friends. I do think that the save should be a Wisdom save instead of intelligence, but it seems as though you were deliberately targeting the Warlock dump stat and dodging the proficient saves.

    Ok hopefully my 2 cents helps, I can't wait to see you take on my favorite vestige: Naberius, Mr. I'm only durable so I can keep talking.

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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gr7mm Bobb View Post
    Your 1st level abilities definitely fit the theme presented and for the most part I like what you have. The part that makes me take a step backwards is actually from the resistance from level 1. That is a huge boon for a first level, even if it is a rare damage type. I've seen it floating around, but someone posted a mechanic that intrigued me that had you start off after a long rest with a number of Temp HP = twice your Warlock Level + Cha. With everything else that is gained with it, maybe add that mechanic for that extra undead style durability and introduce necr resistance at 6th level.
    Resistance to one energy type is a racial ability. Hell, Aasimar get resistance to necrotic and radiant at level 0.

    I feel that 10th level is stacked. . . like a lot. It comes with a boss unarmored, 2 resistances, and an immunity all before 14th level. If you want those kinds of defenses I would try to sprinkle them through the class from 6th level onward. I understand the want to have a Cha based unarmored, but that doesn't feel very lich-like to me.
    I see what you mean, and I've been wavering ever since I realized even an actual 5e Lich isn't immune to necrotic damage. I think it would be fair of me to remove the unarmored defense, you're right, it's not exactly a Lich-y thing. So then the feature would grant cold resistance, poison resistance, and maybe that's it? For some reason Liches have resistance to lightning too, maybe I could throw that in... Or maybe I could grant a fixed armor class like 13 + your dexterity and say your flesh hardens and grows cold to the touch.

    The 14th level is one that I am having a hard time making a full call on. In one hand it gives and keeps on giving long after the other patrons (save maybe the fiends 1st level feature). But in the other hand, it keeps on taking from you. It is a huge risk if you can't get a little help from your friends. I do think that the save should be a Wisdom save instead of intelligence, but it seems as though you were deliberately targeting the Warlock dump stat and dodging the proficient saves.
    Right now it's a huge risk, huge reward scenario in that it gives you, effectively, more high level spell slots than any full caster, but using the extras might make you insane. Now short-term madness are actually the worst kind, they can paralyze you for minutes, stun you, make you fall unconscious, etc. Long-term madness are mostly not so bad, but you can get blinded or knocked unconscious for hours...

    But yes, I deliberately chose Intelligence, because a) Acererak was a Wizard, he's granting you this powerful arcane magic that is almost too complicated and alien for your mind to comprehend, and b) to avoid the Warlock's proficient saves to ensure that it's actually a risk to cast these extra spells. It needs playtesting though. Looking back over the list of long-term madness effects, it might be better just to make this a Wisdom saving throw.
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    Default Re: Vestige Patrons #1 - Acererak, the Devourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Resistance to one energy type is a racial ability. Hell, Aasimar get resistance to necrotic and radiant at level 0.
    At "Level 0", Halflings can reroll all natural 1a, mountain dwarves can cast arcane spells in medium armor and variant humans get a free feat at character creation. Forgive me for being blunt, but races are not classes, comparing one with the other won't make balancing any easier. the idea that a feature is balanced because it you can get it easier from another source is a misconception towards 5e.

    I see what you mean, and I've been wavering ever since I realized even an actual 5e Lich isn't immune to necrotic damage. I think it would be fair of me to remove the unarmored defense, you're right, it's not exactly a Lich-y thing. So then the feature would grant cold resistance, poison resistance, and maybe that's it? For some reason Liches have resistance to lightning too, maybe I could throw that in... Or maybe I could grant a fixed armor class like 13 + your dexterity and say your flesh hardens and grows cold to the touch.
    Suggestion: how about the higher armorless AC you mentioned + offering a choice of a type of a few (resistances/immunities/resistances-that-later-becomes-immunities)?

    Right now it's a huge risk, huge reward scenario in that it gives you, effectively, more high level spell slots than any full caster, but using the extras might make you insane. Now short-term madness are actually the worst kind, they can paralyze you for minutes, stun you, make you fall unconscious, etc. Long-term madness are mostly not so bad, but you can get blinded or knocked unconscious for hours...
    Insanity looks to me like a solid drawback mechanic, if you're already playing by insanity rules (which I personally never intend to, no offense to those who like and/or swear by it). Bear in mind that a good deal of players might forfeit those last levels in warlock because they don't want such risks on their hands. To compare with other warlock pact boon capstone features, That offer one solid effect like literally putting the enemy through hell, it seems fair without the drawback mechanic. That being said, I think you can even get away with rewarding a little further than the couple of extra high level spell slots, it'll go a long way in getting players to consider taking the risk.

    But yes, I deliberately chose Intelligence, because a) Acererak was a Wizard, he's granting you this powerful arcane magic that is almost too complicated and alien for your mind to comprehend, and b) to avoid the Warlock's proficient saves to ensure that it's actually a risk to cast these extra spells. It needs playtesting though. Looking back over the list of long-term madness effects, it might be better just to make this a Wisdom saving throw.
    A) one might argue that the Great Old one works with Charisma despite granting powers that fit that description to the letter. Derp. I just checked. The great old one doesn't even ask for saves, at all. (Spell list notwithstanding) my apologies for my prior snootiness!
    B) even with proficiency you will likely have at least a 40% chance of failure. It's a healthy risk level. I second your decision for a wisdom saving throw for this reason. Even if you said something like "get 1 type A insanity if you fail, get also type B insanity on a natural 1." It's not unreasonable and it meshes a little better with the 5e rules than "if you fail by 5 or more."

    Overall fascinating stuff on a classic Vestige and D&D legend. I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread! Keep up the good work!
    Last edited by Prince Zahn; 2015-08-11 at 04:07 PM.
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