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    Default [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    DEMONIC DISCIPLE
    (Work In Progress)

    Role:

    Alignment: Demonic disciples can be of any alignment, though they tend to be more chaotic than lawful. Whether they use their talents to further the agendas of fiends or to combat them, demonic disciples are typically willing to put others in harms way and employ unwholesome methods to achieve their goals. While lawful and even good alignments are possible among demonic disciples, they are a minority.

    Hit Die: d10.


    REQUIREMENTS
    To qualify to become a demonic disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    -Race: Any non-demon.
    -Skills: Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks.
    -Languages: Abyssal.
    -Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer or bloodrager levels, he must have the abyssal bloodline. If the character gains levels in sorcerer or bloodrager after taking this class, he must take the abyssal bloodline.

    CLASS SKILLS
    The demonic disciple's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Stealth (Dex).

    Skill Ranks at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.


    Table: Demonic Disciple
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
    1st +0 +0 +1 +1 Blood of demons, natural armor increase (+1) -
    2nd +1 +1 +1 +1 Ability boost (+2 Con), bloodline feat, horns of the demon +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    3rd +2 +1 +2 +2 ??? +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    4th +3 +1 +2 +2 Ability boost (+2 Str or Cha), natural armor increase (+1) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    5th +3 +2 +3 +3 Blindsense 30ft., bloodline feat -
    6th +4 +2 +3 +3 Ability boost (+2 Dex) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    7th +5 +2 +4 +4 Demon form, natural armor increase (+1) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    8th +6 +3 +4 +4 Ability boost (+2 Str or Cha), bloodline feat +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    9th +6 +3 +5 +5 Wings of the Abyss -
    10th +7 +3 +5 +5 Blindsense 60ft., Improved Demon form +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

    CLASS FEATURES
    All of the following are class features of the demonic disciple.

    -Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, a demonic disciple gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a demonic disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

    -Blood of Demons: A demonic disciple adds his level to his sorcerer or bloodrager levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the demonic disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, bloodrager, or any other class that grants a bloodline, he instead gains bloodline powers of the abyssal bloodline, using his demonic disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.

    -Natural Armor Increase (Ex): As his skin thickens, a demonic disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a demonic disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Demonic Disciple. These armor bonuses stack.

    -Ability Boost (Ex): As a demonic disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: Demonic Disciple. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

    -Bloodline Feat: Upon reaching 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter, a demonic disciple receives one bonus feat, chosen from the abyssal bloodline's bonus feat list.

    -Horns of the Demon (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever the demonic disciple uses his bloodline to grow claws, he also gains a gore attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the demonic disciple is Small), plus 1–1/2 times the demonic disciple’s Strength modifier. Upon reaching 6th level, this gore also deals 1d6 points of fire damage.

    -???:

    -Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the demonic disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using non-visual senses the demonic disciple notices things he cannot see. He usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.

    -Any opponent the demonic disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the demonic disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 10th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.

    -Demon Form (Sp): At 7th level, a demonic disciple can assume the form of a unique demon. His type changes to outsider with the chaotic, demon, evil, and native subtypes. He gains the benefits of Demonic Might and Damage Reduction 5/good or cold iron. When he reaches 10th level, this Damage Reduction increases to 10/good and cold iron. When he gains this ability, he chooses one additional physical transformation from the following to gain when he transforms: wings (as per the wings of the abyss brutal bloodline power), gills (ability to breathe water and a swim speed of 30 feet), or a single natural attack (bite, slam, or tail sting—damage inflicted as appropriate for the demonic disciple’s size). Once this additional physical transformation is chosen, it can never be changed. The newly created demon’s natural weapons, as well as any weapon it wields, are treated as chaotic and evil for the purpose of resolving damage reduction. The demonic discipline can remain in this form for a number of minutes per day equal to his caster level; this duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1 minute increments. Returning to his normal form is a free action.

    -Wings of the Abyss (Su): At 9th level, a demonic disciple gains the wings of the abyss brutal bloodline power, even if his bloodline does not naturally grant that power. If he possesses the brutal bloodline, then once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the demonic disciple's flight speed increases to 90 feet.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2015-10-13 at 03:41 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Just surfing the boards and found this, you know I need to show up every now and then!

    The class looks good and well rounded but I think that horns of the demon could be moved to 3rd level, as the 2nd level already grants two really good bonuses (a feat and a +2 to any ability score!) as well as a level of spellcasting, now just adding the horns to 3rd level would still leave it rather lackluster, so perhaps you could add something about seeing in magical darkness as that is a pretty cool fiendish trait (or was that devils only...I forget).

    In addition, the prerequisites require spontaneous arcane casting but this class seems to really specify on the sorcerer aspect, perhaps you could add alternate ones relating to bards, possibly inspired by this scene.

    More options for demonic form could be fun too, perhaps a limited amount of fast healing, climb or burrow speeds, a 1st or 2nd level spell three times a day as a spell like ability.

    As I type this I'm now realizing that this is an adaptation of the dragon disciple and that has opened up an interesting possibility, will you be making more of these? Perhaps an aberrant or shadow-related one (as these seem to include aspects of a lot of your work).

    Overall good work but I think the ability scores should be more defined like the dragon disciple, perhaps like this:

    Spoiler: Ability boost pattern
    Show

    2nd: +2 dexterity
    4th: +2 dexterity
    6th: +2 charisma
    8th: +2 constitution

    This pattern is to show that, as tough and strong as demons are, most of them are manipulators, thieves, and liars, and that they have a resilience because they're basically the roaches of the lower planes (higher numbers but a little weaker than their devilish counterparts). It also prevents the player from just picking charisma as fast as they can to get the bonuses early, and doesn't give them a score useless to most sorcerers like strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    Just surfing the boards and found this, you know I need to show up every now and then!
    Yes, there does seem to be that requirement.

    The class looks good and well rounded but I think that horns of the demon could be moved to 3rd level, as the 2nd level already grants two really good bonuses (a feat and a +2 to any ability score!) as well as a level of spellcasting, now just adding the horns to 3rd level would still leave it rather lackluster, so perhaps you could add something about seeing in magical darkness as that is a pretty cool fiendish trait (or was that devils only...I forget).
    Well, the horns of the demon are there because it takes the place of dragon bite. In this case, it actually stands virtually statistically identical. I do need something for 3rd level however, definitely. Dragon disciple, which I am using as the baseline, acquires a breath weapon at that level. Seeing in magical darkness isn't a bad idea, but that is a trait of devils, not demons. Now, demons are capable of summoning other demons, so perhaps something along those lines?

    In addition, the prerequisites require spontaneous arcane casting but this class seems to really specify on the sorcerer aspect, perhaps you could add alternate ones relating to bards, possibly inspired by this scene.
    Not a bad idea, not at all, but I do want to finish the rest of the class first before incorporating aspects of that.

    More options for demonic form could be fun too, perhaps a limited amount of fast healing, climb or burrow speeds, a 1st or 2nd level spell three times a day as a spell like ability.
    More options, definitely. I won't add them at this moment, but I will expand upon the options.

    As I type this I'm now realizing that this is an adaptation of the dragon disciple and that has opened up an interesting possibility, will you be making more of these? Perhaps an aberrant or shadow-related one (as these seem to include aspects of a lot of your work).
    I think the formula should be applied to more than one bloodline and as such perhaps I will be the one to make them. We shall see. First, I want this to be done with before I move on to others. If someone wants to get to them before I do, then they are more than welcome to do so.

    Overall good work but I think the ability scores should be more defined like the dragon disciple, perhaps like this:

    Spoiler: Ability boost pattern
    Show

    2nd: +2 dexterity
    4th: +2 dexterity
    6th: +2 charisma
    8th: +2 constitution

    This pattern is to show that, as tough and strong as demons are, most of them are manipulators, thieves, and liars, and that they have a resilience because they're basically the roaches of the lower planes (higher numbers but a little weaker than their devilish counterparts). It also prevents the player from just picking charisma as fast as they can to get the bonuses early, and doesn't give them a score useless to most sorcerers like strength.
    Advice taken without hesitation or question.

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Perhaps with the summoning ability (which I like by the way, I kind of forgot it was there) there should be some sort of drawback after it's use because it's stated that demons only use it as a last resort because they don't like each other, imagine if some pitiful demon wannabe summoned one. This may have to be regulated by the DM but perhaps the demon could stick around and offer more of it's services, only to end up corrupting the party members, maybe it could become violent, or maybe it could take something back to the abyss with it (especially in the case of a retriever). These effects could even be specific to each type of demon depending on the summon, the lesser demons could be less likely to have something go wrong, whereas the powerful ones could resent the summoner and decide to mess with him somehow.

    EDIT: and maybe I will make a sort of class like this, it certainly is an interesting concept.
    Last edited by inuyasha; 2015-08-14 at 02:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    ..What have I done..? What have you done? That poor lantern archon..

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    I could make the summoning work as follows; Functions as Summon Monster, scaling based on Class level and character level, and has a chance to fail. Also some how make it so that, even with the risk of failure or it turning against you, it may be a desirable option.

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Nice! I like where this seems to be going. A few comments:
    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    Ability boost pattern
    2nd: +2 dexterity
    4th: +2 dexterity
    6th: +2 charisma
    8th: +2 constitution

    This pattern is to show that, as tough and strong as demons are, most of them are manipulators, thieves, and liars, and that they have a resilience because they're basically the roaches of the lower planes (higher numbers but a little weaker than their devilish counterparts).
    I'm sorry, but I believe this is a bit misleading. In terms of flavor, I think demons are, if anything, brutal violent bloodthirsty killers and destroyers, in many ways being the most archetypical "scary monsters". They're not into finesse or subtlety, but follow their raging chaotic impulses and revel in maximum mayhem, pain, bloodshed and destruction. They may be manipulating when murderous carnage isn't an option, but they're very far from the long-term, subtle scheming nature of devils. The notable exception to this is the succubus/incubus, which is the very reason WotC decided to change it into a devil in 4e. In terms of mechanics, demons are also generally more about brutal strength and natural weapons than devils.

    This is also clearly reflected in the abyssal and infernal bloodlines of both bloodragers and sorcerers. The abyssal bloodlines giving massive bonuses to strength and feats and spells such as Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, cause fear, bull's strength, and rage, while the infernal bloodlines give wings, more fire-related stuff and feats and spells such as Combat Reflexes, Deceitful, suggestion, charm monster and dominate person. The same can be seen in the tiefling subtypes: a Devil-Spawn has +2 Con/Wis, -2 Cha, and are described as "Stalwart and conniving, diabolical tieflings know the discipline and might of Hell's legions.", whereas a Demon-Spawn has +2 Str/Cha, -2 Int, and are instead described as "Savage and monstrous, the terrifying spawn of demons know the chaotic fury of their Abyssal ancestors.". The ability score bonuses as well as the descriptions for both subtypes are pretty spot-on IMO - the devils marching in troops, stalwart and militaristic, or pulling strings as smart and conniving deceivers, while the demons come in raging uncontrollable hordes, being frightening monsters of violent passions and unmatched brutality.

    In conclusion, I'd say a much more demonic ability boost pattern would be:
    2nd: +2 strength
    4th: +2 strength
    6th: +2 charisma
    8th: +2 constitution

    However, while definitely a viable option for bloodragers, this does of course make the PrC less interesting for most sorcerers, as inuyasha wrote (besides also being perhaps too close to the Draconic Disciple). And the opposite would be true if staying with the current dex version... Hmm... How about offering two alternatives for certain levels? Something like:
    2nd: +2 constitution
    4th: +2 strength OR +2 charisma
    6th: +2 dexterity
    8th: +2 strength OR +2 charisma

    You could of course have a different order for the boosts, emphasizing the demonic flavor earlier or making later levels more attractive. Anyhow, I think this way these boosts would fit much better with the demonic flavor, while the PrC could remain more useful to both sorcerers and bloodragers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    I could make the summoning work as follows; Functions as Summon Monster, scaling based on Class level and character level, and has a chance to fail. Also some how make it so that, even with the risk of failure or it turning against you, it may be a desirable option.
    Hmm... I'm not a fan of it having a chance to flat out fail. I think it would be better if the type of demon(s) summoned could be made a bit random, with a higher chance of getting the type you specifically wish for (changing as you gain levels). A suitably demonic downside could perhaps be that the duration cannot be shortened and the furious summoned demon(s) turns on you (and your party) if it's still alive when none of your immediate enemies are left standing?

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Quote Originally Posted by upho View Post
    Hmm... I'm not a fan of it having a chance to flat out fail. I think it would be better if the type of demon(s) summoned could be made a bit random, with a higher chance of getting the type you specifically wish for (changing as you gain levels). A suitably demonic downside could perhaps be that the duration cannot be shortened and the furious summoned demon(s) turns on you (and your party) if it's still alive when none of your immediate enemies are left standing?

    I've implemented your advised changes.

    In terms of the summoning, I like that idea. I'll work on how to implement that and put it up as soon as thats done with.
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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    I simply had to make a demon-spawn tiefling test build combining the demonic disciple with the wrathblood bloodrager archetype to see just how much of an "ultimate monster demon" such a build could be. I think the resulting brute, which I named "Porky" for reasons that will be obvious (I can't resist bad puns ), is about as demonic, scary and strong as a PC can possibly get in a game which includes the demonic disciple and wrathblood (at least without having to be evil and going through the tedious process of actually becoming a demon):


    Spoiler: Build Concept and Aims
    Show
    The concept is basically to get as much flavor and mechanical use out of the mentioned four "monster demon" options (demon-spawn tiefling, abyssal bloodline, wrathblood bloodrager and demonic disciple). Mechanically, I believe virtually all the benefits granted by those options can be of great value to a durable frontline melee striker build, especially one which also can make good use out of having a scary debuffing power. So I tried to find the build options which best complement such a combat role and which have great synergies when combined with the four "monster demon" options. And though I wanted over-the-top numbers for Intimidate and Strength just to see how silly high they would get, I still treated this as an exercise in practical optimization. Meaning I aimed for a build that is fully playable during all levels in a real game, without having glaring weaknesses or being reduced to a one trick pony, and which minimizes the costs of achieving silly high Strength and Intimidate values and maximizes the benefits of having those silly values. In short:
    • High consistent DPR
    • Great durability/defense
    • Silly strong
    • Silly scary
    • Practical optimization

    Finally, besides the wrathblood bloodrager and demonic disciple I decided to limit the build to options published by Paizo, hopefully making it slightly less confusing despite the homebrew archetype and PrC adding plenty of stuff most people are unfamiliar with.


    Spoiler: Porky, 20th Level Summary
    Show
    Demon-spawn tiefling (orc wereboar skinwalker heritage) wrathblood primalist bloodrager 12, demonic disciple 8
    CG huge male outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, native)

    (All values while in bloodrage, Dragon Style and Wolf Style stances, using demon form, power of giants, come and get me, greater surge of wrath, boots of speed, war paint and wands of shield and strong jaw.)

    Initiative +14 (+13 in bloodrage); Senses blindsense 30 ft., darkvision 60 ft., Perception +42

    DEFENSE
    HP 387 115 (10+19d10) hit die, +260 con, +12 favored class
    AC 51, touch 19, flat-footed 48; +2 vs. AoOs +12 armor, +16 natural armor, +4 shield, +2 dex, +4 insight, +5 deflection, +2 luck, +1 defending, +1 dodge, -4 abyssal bloodrage, -2 size; +2 dodge
    Fort +32, Ref +23, Will +23; +8 vs. fear; +5 morale vs. spells, (Su) and (Sp) abilities; +2 vs. sleep, paralysis and stunning effects
    DR 3/-, 5/cold iron and good; Immune electricity, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10
    Defensive Abilities constant freedom of movement, deathless frenzy (no effects of having less than 0 hp for 1 round), pale green prism (remove fatigue 2/day, requires switching ioun stones in wayfinder), shape of wrath (+8 to demoralize DC, 42 total)

    OFFENSE
    Speed 70 ft., fly 100 ft., ignores difficult terrain on charge, run and withdraw actions, can charge through allies
    Melee Power Attack, charge: 2 gores +45 (4d6+70 plus 1d6 fire, boar's charge, disemboweling tusks and powerful charge), 2 abyssal claws +45/+45 (6d6+72 plus 1d6 fire), 2 claws +45/+45 (3d6+72), and bite +45 (2d6+70 plus trip) or blades +45 (3d6+70); all attacks benefit from Cornugon Smash and Dragon Ferocity, and bypass DR as if adamantine, chaotic, cold iron, evil, good, magic and silver, and four attacks per round also have the cruel weapon quality
    Space 15 ft., Reach 15 ft. (20 ft. 3 rounds/day)
    Attack Abilities and Special Attacks (values incl. Power Attack and charge) blades (AoO with blades when leaving square adjacent to opponent after moving 5+ ft., grappling enemy takes 1d6 damage per CMB check), boar's charge (gore charge hit is always critical threat), Charge Through (free overrun during charge move, CMB +61, no size limit), Cornugon Smash (Intimidate +76, stacking fear effects, ignores immunities), cruel (shaken, frightened or panicked target sickened if damaged), disemboweling tusks (gore critical hit deals 1d4 Con damage), Dragon Ferocity (target of critical hit shaken for 1d4+25 rounds), Greater Overrun (AoO if overrun check succeeds by 5+), monstrous opportunist (2 attacks when an AoO is triggered, once per round and opponent), monstrous prescience (up to 5 AoOs/round), overbearing advance (25 damage on successful overrun), pounce, powerful charge (+4d6+70 once per round), trip (free trip on bite hit, CMB +62, no size limit), titanic armor (+5 to Strength or CMB check once per minute), tripping fang (can trip flying creatures with bite), Wolf Style (enemy speed reduced by a number of ft. equal to AoO damage -5 for 1 round, free trip if remaining speed reduced to 0 ft.), Wolf Trip (+2 to trip on AoO, tripped enemy falls prone in adjacent space of choice)

    STATISTICS
    Ability Scores (20-point buy)
    Str 60 16 base, +2 race, +4 level, +4 demonic disciple, +6 strength of the beast, +6 belt, +6 greater bloodrage, +6 abyssal bloodrage, +6 power of giants, +4 monstrous size
    Dex 14 10 base, +2 demonic disciple, +6 belt, -4 size
    Con 36 15 base, +1 level, +2 demonic disciple, +6 belt, +6 greater bloodrage, +4 power of giants, +2 monstrous size
    Int 9 7 base, -2 race, +4 headband
    Wis 18 12 base, +6 headband
    Cha 26 14 base, +2 race, +4 tome, +6 headband
    Bab +18, CMB +54 (dirty trick, disarm and reposition +63; overrun +64; trip +65 or +67 with AoO), CMD 73 (+75 vs. bull rush, grapple and overrun; 82 vs. dirty trick and disarm; 84 vs. reposition and trip) (+5 to CMB or CMD once per minute, treated as Gargantuan size for size-dependent special attacks)
    Feats Blind FightB, Charge Through, Cornugon Smash, Dragon FerocityB, Dragon StyleB, Eldritch Heritage, Greater Eldritch Heritage, Greater Overrun, Horn of the Criosphinx, Improved Eldritch Heritage, Improved Overrun, Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Intimidating ProwessB, Power AttackB, Skill Focus (Survival), Wolf StyleB, Wolf Trip
    Skills Bluff +28, Diplomacy +26, Fly +20, Intimidate +76, Knowledge (planes) +9, Perception +42, Sense Motive +22, Survival +26 (+30 to track), Use Magic Device +19

    Bloodline (Abyssal, Orc), Demonic Disciple and Rage Powers 33 rounds of bloodrage/day - Abyssal Bloodrage, Abyssal Claws, Bloodline Familiar (compsognathus), Boar's Charge, Come and Get Me, Deathless Frenzy, Demon Form (wings, 20 min/day), Disemboweling Tusks, Overbearing Advance, Power of Giants (20 min/day), Strength of the Beast, Superstition
    Shape of Wrath Evolutions 16 evolution points - Claws, Improved Natural Armor, Merged Amulet, Monstrous Opportunist, Monstrous Pounce, Monstrous Prescience, Powerful Charge, Skilled (Intimidate), Skilled (Perception), Sum of All Fears, Trip, Tripping Fang (bite)
    Greater Surge of Wrath Evolutions +6 evolution points, -6 rounds of bloodrage, 2 bloodrages/day - Blades, Monstrous Size
    Focused Form 32 evolution points, 3 hours/day

    Alternate Racial Traits Maw or Claw (bite), Prehensile Tail
    Traits Fate's Favored, Reactionary

    Gear
    +3 furious dueling amulet of mighty fists, +1 cruel defending bodywrap of mighty strikes, +5 titanic mithral breastplate and armor kilt, amulet of natural armor +5, belt (+6 str, dex, con), headband (+4 int, +6 wis, cha), blood reservoir of physical prowess, boots of speed, brown thorny ioun, cloak and pauldrons of resisting serpent +5, cracked dusty rose prism and cracked incandescent blue sphere (Survival) in ebon wayfinder, cracked magenta prism x5 (Fly, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device), cracked pale green prism x2, gauntlets of the rending skilled maneuver (overrun), jingasa of the fortunate soldier, lens of detection, longarm bracers, luckstone, mulberry pentacle, orange shoanti war paint x4, ring of protection +5, ring of freedom of movement, silver thorny ioun, tome of leadership and influence +4, wand of shield, wand of strong jaw, 9,800 gp



    Spoiler: Combined Mechanics
    Show
    I built Porky along the same lines as the Abyssal Supercharger wrathblood example build, focusing on DPR in general and charge DPR in particular, along with action-efficient debuffing based on a high Intimidate. Despite sharing many options, the demonic disciple and Porky's higher level does however give him quite a few more interesting and effective tricks than the relatively simple single-classed bloodrager build. The following describes the most notable combinations which substantially help Porky fulfill the build goals.

    High Consistent DPR
    Abyssal Supercharger Like the wrathblood example build, Porky's damage potential comes primarily from options allowing him to get the most out of his silly high Str modifier of 25 and his devastating and reliable charge attacks. The Str modifier is added at least 1.5 times (+37 damage) to hits with all his six primary natural attacks, along with the x3 "two-handed" Power Attack boost (+15 damage), thanks to Dragon Ferocity which is made accessible through the wrathblood's Monstrous Warrior and Monstrous Style features. When charging, Horn of the Criosphinx increases this to at least twice the modifier (+50 damage) on all hits, or six(!) times the modifier (+150 damage) on a gore hit (see Boar-ing Tusks). With the Monstrous Pounce evolution, the bloodrager's Fast Movement, the flight from Demon Form and Dragon Style, Porky has a great charge speed (140 ft., or 200 ft. with haste), can make all of his attacks when charging and can disregard both difficult terrain and blocking allies. And should an enemy block his path to the preferable target of his charge, Porky is even happier (see Barreling Porky-pine). In short, Porky's charge DPR typically allows him to turn virtually anyone or anything he can pinpoint within his 200 feet charge range into fine mist in one turn, including high CR HP-mountains such as the legendary Tarrasque, while his normal full attack DPR is typically more than enough to easily kill even the most durable CR 20 monsters.
    Boar-ing Tusks The demonic disciple's Horns of the Demon (reflavored into "Tusks of the Demon") provides Porky with a gore attack boosted to tremendous potential on a charge. The Boar's Charge and Disemboweling Tusks rage powers ensures a hit automatically threatens a crit that also deals 1d4 Con damage (an average of 50 hp lost for a 20 HD enemy), and the Powerful Charge evolution adds another doubling of the damage. The result is a highly accurate gore attack dealing an absolutely massive average of 252 damage (plus 3.5 fire damage), also reducing the target's Con by 2.5 points. Thanks to his boots of speed (or another source of haste), Porky can make this attack at least twice in one charge, although only one hit per round gains the +84 additional average damage from the Powerful Charge evolution. And if Porky's charge triggers one or more AoOs, the number of these devastating gore attacks he can make on his turn can easily increase to more than four (see Barreling Pork-upine).
    Barreling Porky-pine Charge Through allows Porky to make a free overrun attempt against an enemy in his charge path. With a high +64 CMB bonus (boosted by high Str, Improved and Greater Overrun, size and various items), that attempt has a high chance to succeed even when used with Power Attack against very high CR monsters of colossal size (like the Tarrasque, CR 25, CMD 66; CMB +61 with Power Attack and charge = 80% overrun success chance). The Overbearing Advance rage power allows Porky to deal damage equal to his Str modifier (25) to the overrun target, which in turn also allows him to demoralize the target if he uses Power Attack. In addition to knocking the enemy prone in the highly likely event Porky's CMB check beats the enemy's CMD by 5 or more, he can make one or two AoOs - which can be Boar-ing Tusks - via Greater Overrun. And when Porky continues his charge movement, the Blades evolution grants him one or two additional AoOs with his blades attack. If the enemy isn't already knocked prone by the overrun maneuver, the blades AoO(s) and Wolf Style is bound to trigger a free trip attempt anyway (even if the enemy is flying). In short, there's a very high probability an enemy in Porky's charge path will be left prone, panicked, sickened and with no movement speed in a bad position, and often with an average of 5 less Con and shaken for at least 30 rounds. That is, of course, only if the enemy survives the onslaught of up to three accurate AoOs that deals a total of more than 440 damage on average. (See also Boar-ing Tusks, Opportunistic Pig, Demonic Demoralization and Cruel Lockdown.)
    Opportunistic Pig The Come and Get Me rage power, the Blades and Monstrous Opportunist evolutions and Greater Overrun are almost guaranteed to give Porky at least two AoOs per round in many combat situations, and typically at least five AoOs when he can use Charge Through. With the Monstrous Prescience evolution, he can also add half his Cha mod (+4) to the maximum number of AoOs he can make per round. These options primarily allows Porky to better spread his murderous terrifying love among more targets, granting him additional value out of being Silly Strong and Silly Scary, while also improving his control ability along with his defense. A triggered AoO usually has at least five effects besides dealing damage: a) the Monstrous Opportunist evolution allows Porky to make two attacks instead of one (provided he hasn't already used this ability against the provoking enemy during the round), b) the enemy becomes shaken, or more often frightened and sickened (see Demonic Demoralization), c) Wolf Style reduces the enemy's movement speed by an amount equal to the damage dealt -5 for one round, d) Wolf Style also allows Porky to make a free trip attempt (CMB +62 with Power Attack) if the enemy's remaining speed is reduced to 0 or less (which it usually is), and e) Wolf Trip allows Porky to move the enemy as a free action and have it fall prone in an adjacent space of his choice. (See also Boar-ing Tusks, Barreling Pork-upine, Demonic Demoralization and Cruel Lockdown.)

    Great Durability/Defense
    Big Fat Swine The bonuses from bloodrage (+6), the Power of Giants orc bloodline power (+4), the Monstrous Size evolution (+2) and the Ability Boost feature of the demonic disciple (+2) gives Porky a great Con score of 36, of course matching that of a Balor, which generates his 387 hit points. As a comparison, a typical single-classed barbarian who also ends up with a base Con of 22 (15 base, +1 level, +6 belt), has a total of 376 HP at 20th level when raging, despite having a d12 hit die instead of d10, 20 bonus HP from Favored Class instead of 12, and Raging Vitality and Mighty Rage for a +10 Con bonus instead of Greater Bloodrage and Monstrous Size for a +8 bonus.
    Balor Hide Porky has an unusually high AC despite the -8 total penalty his Huge size and Abyssal Bloodrage imparts. This is largely due to the natural armor bonuses from the Power of Giants orc bloodline power (+4), the Monstrous Size (+2) and Improved Natural Armor (+2) evolutions and the Natural Armor Increase feature of the demonic disciple (+3), all of which stack with the amulet of natural armor for a whopping +16 natural armor bonus. Which, again, is the same size as the natural armor bonus a Balor has, naturally... With the extra points Porky would have had even had he decided to dump AC like most bloodragers do (such as a +1 breastplate, haste, a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, the Fate's Favored trait etc), the high natural armor bonus allows his AC to become high enough to actually be at least somewhat worth the cost of increasing. Which is a very rare thing IME. As a frontline melee combatant and dedicated charger, a low AC would have resulted in a much higher risk of Porky's mobile fighting style being hampered by AoOs from enemies with greater reach, besides making him less durable and more dependent on his party's healing resources, especially in fights against several opponents.
    Demonic Defenses Besides a very high Fortitude (+32) boosted by especially his high Con (+13) and the bloodrager's fast save progression (+8), Porky's Reflex (+23) is also unusually high in comparison to a standard single-classed bloodrager, while his Will (+23) remains at least on par. His Reflex benefits from the Monstrous Prescience evolution, adding half his Cha modifier (+4), and the demonic disciple's faster progression (+2) and Ability Increase feature (+1) increasing his Dex, while his Will gains more (+1 while bloodraging) from the faster progression of demonic disciple than Porky loses by not having Mighty Bloodrage. A large majority of Porky's saving throws also gain a +5 morale bonus from the Superstition rage power, while his saves against fear effects gains a +8 bonus from Shape of Wrath, and Dragon Style increases his saves against paralysis, sleep and stun with an additional +2. In addition to these great save bonuses, Porky also has the DR, immunities and resistances of the sorcerer's better 20th level abyssal bloodline power (gained through the demonic disciple's Demon Form), the Deathless Frenzy rage power making him exceptionally hard to kill with HP damage, and the +8 bonus from Shape of Wrath making him unusually resistant to Intimidate attempts (DC 42).
    Come and Suck The Come and Get Me rage power can be a formidable defense mechanism when combined with strong melee debuff and control options. In Porky's case, CaGM protects Porky's charge movement from being disrupted by AoOs, and also improves his defense when he is attacked normally by an enemy. In short, attacking Porky while within his melee reach is most often a very bad idea for the attacker, as the attack runs a high risk of missing Porky or being completely voided since his two (usually) superseding AoOs are likely to render the attacker frightened, sickened, prone and with no movement speed in a bad position (-8 to melee, -4 to other attacks). Not to mention only a single triggered AoO will likely deal a lot more damage to the attacker than its triggering attack can deal Porky. And it's much worse for an enemy that makes an AoO against Porky while he charges (for example provoked by his movement), since he can then both use his devastating Boar-ing Tusks gore attacks on the triggered AoO(s) from CaGM and make an additional AoO using his blades attack (after Wolf Style and Wolf Trip has allowed him to place the prone enemy in an adjacent space), a combo very likely to outright kill most enemies of a CR equal to his level and leave a survivor panicked or cowering, sickened, prone and without movement speed. (See also Boar-ing Tusks, Opportunistic Pig, Demonic Demoralization and Cruel Lockdown.)

    Silly Strong
    A Str score of 60 is beyond the reach of even a synthesist summoner AFAIK, and thus Porky definitely qualifies as silly strong in my book. While undoubtedly costly, the four feats required to snag the two Str-increasing (p)ORK(y) bloodline powers from the sorcerer also give Porky much in return, as noted in many other combos detailing Porky's high HP, AC, DPR and CMB bonuses. Besides the +6 inherent bonus and the +6 size bonus (which stacks with the +4 from the Monstrous Size evolution) to Str, Porky gains +4 Con and natural armor and a cute "mini-demon" compsognathus Abyssal Bloodline Familiar that provides him with a +4 bonus to Initiative (by retraining the mostly useless 1st level orc bloodline power granted by Eldritch Heritage). Outside of the four feat slots, the price Porky pays for his silly high Str is mainly in penalties from being Huge size and lost features from replacing eight levels of bloodrager with demonic disciple, and that price is surprisingly low considering the advantages a larger size gives a melee combatant and the numerous benefits the prestige class grants (comparison below). The small font text in the Statistics section in the build summary above details the Str bonuses.

    Silly Scary
    I think an Intimidate skill bonus of +76 is a lot more silly than a Str score of 60. This is because increasing Str from say 54 to 60 usually gives substantial advantages to a Str-based build in most games, while investments in Intimidate gives quickly diminishing returns after a certain point. Typically, this point is found somewhere before +55 at 20th level, as this would result in a demoralize check which can be expected to succeed on a roll of 1 against any enemy the party is likely to fight and still impose a fear condition that lasts more than one round. (Since the skill bonus isn't detailed in the build summary, here's the rundown: 20 ranks, +3 class skill, +8 Cha, +25 Str (Intimidating Prowess), +8 Surge of Wrath (half EP value of manifested evolutions), +8 racial (Skilled evolution), +2 competence (cracked magenta prism), +2 luck (luckstone and Fate's Favored trait) = 76. And yes, this can get even sillier, for basically no benefit besides perhaps bragging rights...)
    Demonic Demoralization To get good use out of Porky's silly high Intimidate bonus, it's supported by four options that turns demoralization into a melee debuff that remains reliable and powerful in higher levels: the True Terror, Monstrous Terror and Sum of All Fears evolutions and Cornugon Smash. Maximizing the Intimidation evolutions to gain Sum of All Fears is expensive but absolutely vital, as these allow Porky to stack successful demoralization attempts for worse fear conditions and ignore a target's immunity to fear or mind-affecting effects. Cornugon Smash is by far the least costly option for a Str-based melee character to make demoralization attempts in combat, both in terms of prerequisites and in terms of action economy, allowing Porky to make a free action demoralization attempt each time he deals damage using Power Attack (which he basically always does anyway). In conclusion, there's a very high probability that any creature Porky can attack at least three times in a turn will be panicked for several rounds.
    Cruel Lockdown The debuffing power of Demonic Demoralization is further enhanced with Wolf Style and Wolf Trip, which means a panicked creature hit by one or two AoOs is also prone and cowering in a bad position, unable to take any actions at all unless it's able to move without a movement speed (for example through magic such as dimension door). It rarely matters that Wolf Style only works on AoOs and can therefore sometimes not be used against Porky's target of his full attack, since he is likely to kill that target in one round anyway. In addition, the cruel magic weapon special ability renders a target affected by a fear condition sickened when hit, making it even harder for a hit opponent to do anything useful or escape certain death. (See also Opportunistic Pig.)

    Practical Optimization
    Porky is at least as viable in a real game as a standard bloodrager is during all levels, and during most levels I believe he's actually a lot more versatile and powerful both in and out of combat than basically any martial build restricted to Paizo options can be, despite his low Int giving relatively few Skill Points and his rather heavy investment into charge-dependent options. In addition, I think he really is monstrously demonic, in fluff as well as crunch!



    Might be worth noting here that the demonic disciple, even in its current state without a 3rd level feature, is a straight upgrade for most abyssal bloodrager builds (especially natural attackers), and also that a majority of the benefits have a higher value and the trade-offs are less noticeable to a melee frontliner like the bloodrager than they are for most sorcerers. The demonic disciple grants Porky - beyond what an additional 8 levels of bloodrager would have granted him - a +2 bonus to Strength and Dexterity at all times plus +2 Strength and Constitution while not bloodraging, +2 to the Reflex and +2 to the Will (+1 net gain when bloodraging) save progressions, an additional bloodline bonus feat, and various features which basically translates into very useful and fitting evolutions worth at least 15(!) evolution points. The only features of any real importance Porky trades for these advantages are 3 points of DR/-, 15 rounds of bloodrage per day, tireless rage and the +4 bonus to Will saves against enchantments from indomitable will. On the other hand, the -2 BAB is barely noticeable with Porky's high Strength, the single lost point of Fortitude progression doesn't keep his total bonus from staying in autosuccess territory, the 8 points of hp lost due to levels without favored class bonuses corresponds to less than 2% of Porky's total hp, and having one less evolution point (due to lost CL) for other evolutions is just a very slight opportunity cost.

    But this advantage is true for the dragon disciple as well, as is the greater value that PrC has for a bloodrager in comparison to a sorcerer. And as I think neither the abyssal or the draconic bloodrager bloodline are strong and neither PrC are OP I also don't think the demonic disciple needs to be nerfed for this reason, especially since bloodragers in general and those of weaker bloodlines (such as abyssal) in particular could really do with a boost. (Whereas I believe sorcerers, just like other full casters, are in much greater need of a nerfbat beating than they are of additional strong options.)

    Also, a few things in the OP that need clarifications (my emphasis):

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    Demon Form (Sp): /snip/ when he transforms: wings (as per the wings bloodline power) /snip/
    As the neither of the two existing abyssal bloodlines has a "wings" bloodline power, I assume this refers to the sorcerer draconic bloodline power of the same name, but I might be wrong and this needs to be clarified regardless.

    Also, just like the orc bloodline's "Power of Giants", this is marked as a (Sp) ability, but says nothing of which school and/or subschool (if any) it belongs to. I think a lot of people will assume this is a polymorph spell, thereby preventing it from being used with other polymorph spells (such as enlarge person or beast shape), even though it may have been deliberately left without a school and/or subschool. Either way, I think a clarification would be great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    -Wings (Su): At 9th level, a demonic disciple gains the wings bloodline power, even though his does not grant that power.
    What exactly are you trying to say here? I'm guessing something along the lines of: "At 9th level, a demonic disciple gains the wings bloodline power of the sorcerer draconic bloodline, even though he does not have the draconic bloodline."

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    If he possesses the brutal bloodline /snip/
    What is this brutal bloodline I've never heard of and where can I find it? I suggest you provide a link and a also make it clear that this isn't a Paizo option.

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Here's the brutal bloodline

    I believe that the wings should be labeled as a "Su" ability, as they're sort of an innate ability to this class.

    Also about the summoning, perhaps at third level he can summon a "demonic consort" once per day with a 30% chance of success, granting him a temporary succubus ally. This could be increased to 2/day (40% success) at 6th, and 3/day (50% success) at 9th level. If this option is considered, the demonic consort should be helpful to the task at hand, but probably not under the demonic disciple's control, perhaps urging him into evil or perverse deeds. Just a thought.
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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    Thank you for the input.

    I did just realize I incorrectly referred to the bloodline power's name, as it is Wings of the Abyss and not "Wings". I've also clarified some text.



    I'll consider that option for the summoning ability. I am also considering saddling them with the antipaladin's fiendish boon ability (fiendish servant), though augmented in some way for better scaling.





    Also! When I feel this is done, I want to do another one. This one can be centered on -any- bloodline, be it a sorcerer or bloodrager one. What ever has the most call for it when I'm done with this one, i'll do.
    Alternatively, I could make a "Bloodline Disciple", creating a generic.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2015-10-13 at 03:42 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC Adaptation] Demonic Disciple

    I honestly don't think you should do a generic one, I like the idea that each one gets it's own specific class, creating something very unique.

    I'm new to pathfinder stuff, simply relying on the SRD (I plan on getting the books soon because it's much better than 3.5 stuff). Is there a way to get more than one bloodline? Because if so it would be cool to have more than one prestige class of this nature.
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