OOTS #998 - The Discussion Thread

[Seward]

Does it say what the minimum level you have to be to become a high priest? Do you get the spell automatically when you take the prestige or do you need to research it or take another level?

They don't need to take a prestige class. All clerics (but not favored souls like Veldrina) get access to all cleric spells once they're powerful enough to cast them.

They just need the GM to include the "sourcebook" in the campaign for anything "non-core". "Sourcebooks" exist in the StickVerse (see how Elan got access to the Dashing Swordsman prestige class, and Haley complaining about Tsuiko using "orb" spells), so it is possible the sourcebook containing the spell is issued once you're granted the "High Priest" title for your religion.

Alternately somebody at the Godsmoot has the sourcebook and shares with other priests. Or you know....lots of other approaches. It does seem like you can access noncore stuff without a sourcebook if somebody teaches you directly (as Roy's Grandfather does with the mage-slayer-type feat). Also, Core, you can always try spell research to learn spells on your own.

[davidbofinger]

It's going to be wit, not brawn, that finds a solution that the particular Lovecraftian entity.

It might be a bit anticlimactic if the high level characters never used their attacks. More likely it will be wit *and* brawn. And cross-class skill in Knowledge (Universal Architecture and Engineering). Amongst our many weapons...

[davidbofinger]

If they have to destroy the world because of his shenanigans, it's possible (not inevitable) that his allies will abandon him, but until then, he has friends.

In the SOD crayon scenes his allies (Rat, Tiamat, Loki, probably others we didn't see) backed him on two principles: "What's good for the elves should be good for the goblins" and "It would be good to have another evil god around here." If he's trying to destroy the world for the sake of goblins then those principles may not apply. He might have different allies supporting him for different reasons.

[davidbofinger]

the Eastern Gods may have been even more vulnerable to it than mortals of a similar power level

So ... no happy ending for Banjo, then.

[Gift Jeraff]

So ... no happy ending for Banjo, then.

Banjo is a puppet, not a god.

[littlebum2002]

Banjo is a puppet, not a god.

Then how did he zap Roy?

[Gift Jeraff]

Then how did he zap Roy?

That was static in Roy's hair.

[Havelocke]

pardon me for having a crazy theory here, but what if the Monster in the Dark is Snarl Jr?

[littlebum2002]

pardon me for having a crazy theory here, but what if the Monster in the Dark is Snarl Jr?

It's been proposed already

Section 3b: Frequently Proposed Unlikely Ideas
These ideas have been frequently brought up, but they fail in a major way that presents a major problem. If you are considering them, please address the problem listed in your initial post.

Snarl jr

Spoiler

Show

Probably the #1 proposed idea, the "son-of-Snarl" has a major problem: it does not match Rich's words that MitD is a monster someone else (i.e. not him) invented (see Section 1a: "it isn't something I just made up for the story" & "I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually"). Snarl has also not displayed any form of teleportation magic, nor any particular appetite, nor need to sleep.

Furthermore, Snarl has been kept a major secret - it's unlikely that the hunters would know, or that they have seen so many Snarl Jr.s running around they can talk about not having seen "one of these".

[MDR]

Honestly, I'm half expecting Redcloak to make a sudden appearance to disrupt the proceedings (on behalf of the Dark One), and at some point he and Roy will have a confrontation but would be unable to fight due to the rules of the moot.

And I wonder if the world that was seen in the rift was one ready to pop into place in case the current one is destroyed, before the other gods can stop it. Maybe everything that has been going on has been planned just to get things to this point, and to have the gods vote to destroy the world. And then that other world would pop out, and the current gods would be supplanted. Maybe the Dark One is behind this. Thats my crazy idea, anyhoo.

[Father Miles]

So Roy already suggested the idea of the High Priests helping him squash the lich. It's pretty clear that won't happen. So, if we assume the world isn't going to be destroyed then there are a couple of obvious possibilities:

1) Whatever HPoH has planned will either kill off the priests or cause them to be unwilling to help the group.
2) The priests are unwilling to help Roy because of his involvement in the destTheruction of the gates.

And a few less likely:
1) The priests break out into war amongst themselves and can't provide assistance.
2) Belkar returns somehow and whatever he does, causes the priests to be unwilling to help.
3) The priests have to work on controlling the existing rifts while the party pursues Xykon.
4) The priests can't help because they won't fight against Redcloak directly.
5) The party is somehow separated from the priests (say, via the teleport orb) and the priests are therefore unable to render assistance.
6) Xykon appears and kills the priests.

I'm curious to see how the world can avoid destruction and yet the priests fail to help for some logically consistent reason.

[White Blade]

In the SOD crayon scenes his allies (Rat, Tiamat, Loki, probably others we didn't see) backed him on two principles: "What's good for the elves should be good for the goblins" and "It would be good to have another evil god around here." If he's trying to destroy the world for the sake of goblins then those principles may not apply. He might have different allies supporting him for different reasons.

Well, this old Giant Quote belies that:

I make no comment on the substance of the arguments here, but I just wanted to chime in and say that it was my intent to imply that in the crayon pages of Start of Darkness, the other gods were capable of unilaterally killing The Dark One only because he was newly ascended.

He had used up all of his "worshipper juice" becoming a god, leaving him somewhat weak and with no experience using divine powers. After some of the other gods broke ranks to defend him, he took control of the goblinoids and established regular worship among them. So he's been building his power for a few centuries since then, and unlike other gods, he doesn't have to share his species' worship with several competing deities.

Basically, that was their only shot to just gang up and kill him out of hand.

[malloyd]

And I wonder if the world that was seen in the rift was one ready to pop into place in case the current one is destroyed, before the other gods can stop it. Maybe everything that has been going on has been planned just to get things to this point, and to have the gods vote to destroy the world. And then that other world would pop out, and the current gods would be supplanted. Maybe the Dark One is behind this. Thats my crazy idea, anyhoo.

Not an idiotic plan from the viewpoint of the people supposedly involved, not actually contradicted by anything we know already, wouldn't break the story, somewhat resolves a bit of existing foreshadowing (that planet). That's not crazy idea territory, that's plausible speculation, especially by the standards around here.

[Gnoman]

It might be a bit anticlimactic if the high level characters never used their attacks. More likely it will be wit *and* brawn. And cross-class skill in Knowledge (Universal Architecture and Engineering). Amongst our many weapons...

In the SOD crayon scenes his allies (Rat, Tiamat, Loki, probably others we didn't see) backed him on two principles: "What's good for the elves should be good for the goblins" and "It would be good to have another evil god around here." If he's trying to destroy the world for the sake of goblins then those principles may not apply. He might have different allies supporting him for different reasons.

So ... no happy ending for Banjo, then.

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[rockdeworld]

Maybe this has been answered, but I can't read 14 pages looking for 1 sentence, so someone please help me.

What does that cleric mean by A cleric said "the gods can only hear each other", but how is that possible? The gods hear their clerics all the time, and in the d20srd rules for deities it says that they can hear anything associated with their portfolio, or anywhere they have Remote Sensing active. And I assume they all must have remote sensing active around the Godsmoot in order to hear what the other proxies are saying. So what the heck?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Clerics have a small touch of the deity in them, which is what they use when they pray for spells. That's the only way the gods hear mortals. Which also explains why so many mortal prayers go unanswered.

[Keltest]

Maybe this has been answered, but I can't read 14 pages looking for 1 sentence, so someone please help me.

What does that cleric mean by "the gods can only hear each other"? The gods hear their clerics all the time, and in the d20srd rules for deities it says that they can hear anything associated with their portfolio, or anywhere they have Remote Sensing active. And I assume they all must have remote sensing active around the Godsmoot in order to hear what the other proxies are saying. So what the heck?

Im pretty sure it means that "the gods can only hear each other." Regardless of what happens in 3.5 D&D, if Rich says something contradictory, then the D&D rules are simply wrong in that instance.

[hroþila]

There's ways to reconcile both, though, and personally I didn't take either the comic or what the Giant wrote here to mean the gods are always unable to hear mortals, just at the Godsmoot. For example, maybe the ZOT!/Summon Proxy spell blocks the inane babbling of those mortal nuisances so that the gods can concentrate on what really matters.

[Lissou]

There's ways to reconcile both, though, and personally I didn't take either the comic or what the Giant wrote here to mean the gods are always unable to hear mortals, just at the Godsmoot. For example, maybe the ZOT!/Summon Proxy spell blocks the inane babbling of those mortal nuisances so that the gods can concentrate on what really matters.

That's how I took it too. Normally, Gods hear mortals during their daily prayers, when called upon for a spell, things like that. But in the Godsmoot there are going to be tons of them in the same place and they can't possibly listen to everyone and still make their decision. So it's all muted out, and they can only hear the text in their respective colour (so yellow for the Northern Gods for instance) and not a mortal just talking to them like they're in the room (which they aren't).