General Anime/Manga Discussion 14: Second Cour

[DoctorFaust]

Concrete Revoltio, on the other hand, was a real disappointment. I am not sure if I have any interest in watching beyond episode 1, because I have tried reducing the amount of mediocre new series in my diet. Somehow the vibes I received reminded me of Punch Line. Ultimately pointless relatively light-hearted bouncing and bumbling around.

Did you miss the fact that the Superhuman Bureau's official policy for dealing with potentially dangerous superhumans is to straight up murder them? Or the implication that the Jiro had a fairly violent falling out with the Superhuman Bureau, resulting in him becoming their enemy at some prior to the parts of the story set in what I assume is the present day?

[VariSami]

Did you miss the fact that the Superhuman Bureau's official policy for dealing with potentially dangerous superhumans is to straight up murder them? Or the implication that the Jiro had a fairly violent falling out with the Superhuman Bureau, resulting in him becoming their enemy at some prior to the parts of the story set in what I assume is the present day?

No, not really. But these things really do not stand through the mood in which things are presented. For example, I made a comparison to Punch Line, a series full of panty peek humour

Spoiler: Punch Line

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and in which the whole of humanity is doomed to die from the plot of social Darwinist conspirators who launched nukes at a meteor to make it hit Earth. Oh, and one of the characters was seriously bullied and made a fake death threat video in response, causing her teacher who harbours illicit feelings towards her to start killing the bullies. Another one is dying from the after-effects of the illegal human experimentation to which she was subjected by aforementioned conspirators.

Krhm. Yes, there was some pretty dark stuff in the spoiler. But none of that really adds too much depth or drama when the visuo-audial framework supports an atmosphere of excessive fanservice. Of course the two can be combined to bring out the absurdity in the latter but it takes a lot of balancing, and Concrete Revolutio's first episode did not get my hopes up on that front. This is a judgement I base on having watched a lot of average chaff over the years. Many flagging tropes were present.

[Fri]

I'm not meaning to compare you with this particular friend of mine, but you just remind me on this guy.

He refuse to watch Madoka because he says the artstyle is too moe. No seriously, that's the only reason why he hasn't watched Madoka. I've told him a lot of times that it's meant as contrast and the story is good and whatever, but he says "the artstyle turns me off because it's too cutesy."

[cobaltstarfire]

I'm not meaning to compare you with this particular friend of mine, but you just remind me on this guy.

He refuse to watch Madoka because he says the artstyle is too moe. No seriously, that's the only reason why he hasn't watched Madoka. I've told him a lot of times that it's meant as contrast and the story is good and whatever, but he says "the artstyle turns me off because it's too cutesy."

Why should someone feel compelled to watch something with an art style that they feel is annoying, off putting, or discomforting? There's nothing wrong with that.

Though I personally won't watch Madoka because I have no interest in an anime who's sole selling point has been "it's so good because it's super emotional and will make you cry".

[Draconium]

Why should someone feel compelled to watch something with an art style that they feel is annoying, off putting, or discomforting? There's nothing wrong with that.

When I first had Madoka recommended to me, I originally thought the art style was too cutesy and moe as well. Then I decided to actually try it out after a while. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that not only was the anime quite good, the art style was indeed a wonderful contrast to the show's darker theme.

Reflecting on it now, I realize I was judging a book by it's cover - or in this case, an anime by it's art style. I think the friend should at least try watching it, even if the art style isn't his taste. He could be surprised.

[ex cathedra]

I don't think that there's anything wrong with not wanting to watch something because it seems "too moe." It's not something that I'd advise -- I mean, I love moe -- but it's completely believable that something like that can diminish certain viewer's enjoyment. I try not to watch anything that seems "too shonen," and I'm sure that I've missed some at least decent anime because of that, but there's enough TV in the world that even missing out an entire genre worth of material isn't that big of a deal. There's nothing that anyone must watch.

Why should someone feel compelled to watch something with an art style that they feel is annoying, off putting, or discomforting? There's nothing wrong with that.

Though I personally won't watch Madoka because I have no interest in an anime who's sole selling point has been "it's so good because it's super emotional and will make you cry".

I don't think that Madoka is one of 'those' anime, though; I'm also not totally sure what 'those' anime are; AnoHana? Clannad: AS? White Album 2? Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso? In every case that immediately comes to mind, I think that depiction kind of sells the show in question short, but this aside has gone on long enough.

In my opinion, Madoka's strengths are tight and well-stylized animation, a strong narrative, its engaging characterization, and its semi-psychological themes. It certainly gets emotional at times, but that's not even close to the most substantial thing I took out of watching it.

edit:
fwiw i never got around to watching rebellion

[cobaltstarfire]

What does "one of those" anime mean? I'm not sure what is being referred to here...I've never seen or heard of any of the ones listed sooo?


I still can't get behind judging someone negatively for not wanting to watch (or play) something because the visuals aren't a sort they like.

Most of my friends prefer "photo-realism" in games, and won't play a lot of games I like because they "look kiddie" but I don't think they're lesser people for knowing what they like, and preferring to stick with it.

[ex cathedra]

"anime who's sole selling point has been "it's so good because it's super emotional and will make you cry""

[Sallera]

I don't think that Madoka is one of 'those' anime, though; I'm also not totally sure what 'those' anime are; AnoHana? Clannad: AS? White Album 2? Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso? In every case that immediately comes to mind, I think that depiction kind of sells the show in question short, but this aside has gone on long enough.

ef? Aside or not, it probably deserves a mention. I remember being pretty much emotionally numb for an hour or two after watching the love triangle arc of Memories in one sitting.

But I wouldn't put Madoka in that category either. I mean, if someone were actually looking for a depressing show, it wouldn't even come to mind. It's a show with great art direction, writing, and one of the best uses of an ED I've seen, it has a lot of fun playing with the magical girl genre, and even with all that, I'm not surprised the art style turns some people off. Even I found it a bit odd in context at first (although it never takes me long to get used to a new style), and I was already familiar with it from Hidamari Sketch.

[Lethologica]

W.r.t. Madoka, let's be fair: if one has difficulty detaching from a show's emotional impact, Sayaka's arc will be pretty draining. This is a feature, not a bug, but it's understandable if someone doesn't want that feature in their viewing experience.

[Fri]

But yeah, Madoka's selling point isn't actually "it's tragic."

I was really hyped when I first heard about it because of two things.

1.The soundtrack was by Kaijura Yuki, which is my favourite anime composer ever.
2.It's by Shaft, which is the studio with my favourite style ever.

Some people were also hyped because it's written by Urobutchi, who by at that point was still famous as the upcoming writer and his name was not treated like how people treat Michael Bay or Shyamalan these days.

[cobaltstarfire]

But yeah, Madoka's selling point isn't actually "it's tragic."

Those are the "selling points" people have used to describe it to me every time, that they cried, that it was emotional, that it was kind of emotionally intense at times.

I suffer from depression, so no I'm not going to watch an anime just to be able to say I watched it. I value my own mental health over anime street cred.


To poke at the other half of the conversation, I personally don't care much about art style in something so long as it doesn't distract me or make it hard to tell what's going one.

[Fri]

Those are the "selling points" people have used to describe it to me every time, that they cried, that it was emotional, that it was kind of emotionally intense at times.

I know, and in my opinion, they're missing the point. Here's a big spoiler (though the spoiler that makes another of my friend with the same problem with you watch it, and almost made my friend didn't watch it at all. Basically because everything she heard made her think it's a pointless tragedy manga, while it's actually not.).

Spoiler

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It doesn't actually end in a tragedy. Sure, it doesn't exactly end in a big happily ever after ending, but it's more a bittersweet happy ending. Some people say the ending is tragic, but in my opinion they miss a big point of the ending. And actually, how it actually end in a somewhat uplifting note ruined the series for at least one person who wishes for it to end in a big tragedy. And also, this is the biggest complain about the movies, it completely ruined the theme of the series by making the ending tragic to give it sequel hook basically

[VariSami]

Decided to give Concrete Revolutio another chance. At the beginning of the episode I was still quite cynical but the rest alleviated my doubt somewhat. I will probably see this one to the end, just to witness whether it can be pulled off successfully or if it fades to utter mediocrity.

The one-two-punch of Kikko and Fuurouta in a world full of less... naive designs was probably the biggest turn-off for me when I wrote the last message. Having witnessed one episode which was almost Samurai Flamenco at its lowest in terms of the milieu, the preview with a certain ghost kid just misled me to think the rest of the show would follow in a similar vein.

[cobaltstarfire]

I don't really think it's a pointless tragedy thing, but I have made the judgement that I personally am not in a place where I can or should watch it. That's it really, this is not something I am willing to budge on since mental health>watching an anime, doesn't matter how good the anime is.

So now I'm going to wibble about the thing I'm currently watching from the nice list you all helped put together!

It was pretty refreshing in Hanayama when Hana said 'You're probably gaining weight from all the work we've been doing because muscles!" It's still very pretty, though it got a bit dramatic for the most recent one (after their first try at putting on a show).

Also kind of fun picking out things in it that are similar to K-on. I realized that the genre is in a way newish to me. I think other than Hikaru no Go and more recently Sound Euphonium I've not seen much of this sort of school based slice of life club thing (and well Hikaru no Go doesn't really counts does it?) Even being able to pick out what I guess are tropes, it's a pretty fun type of anime. I look forward to the one at the all boys school, both to see how it'll differ and to see if it'll share similarities with the ones featuring girls all over.

[DoctorFaust]

That's it really, this is not something I am willing to budge on since mental health>watching an anime, doesn't matter how good the anime is.

As someone who also suffers from depression, bah, I say! Bah!

I look forward to the one at the all boys school, both to see how it'll differ and to see if it'll share similarities with the ones featuring girls all over.

Since I can't remember entirely what all is on the list, are you talking about Nichibros? Because if not, you should totally watch Nichibros.

[Fri]

There's actually some sort of K-On parody in the Daily Lives of Highschool Boys

[cobaltstarfire]

As someone who also suffers from depression, bah, I say! Bah!

At least my "problem" isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, maybe someday I will feel comfortable watching it. :3

Since I can't remember entirely what all is on the list, are you talking about Nichibros? Because if not, you should totally watch Nichibros.

I had to dig up the list, and the boy focused slice of life school anime thing is Daily Lives of Highschool Boys

But I can also add Nichibros to it.

I guess for those curious here's what all is left on the list, and roughly the order that I received/added them.

Spoiler: list of animes

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Read or Die
Bodacious Space Pirates
Spice & Wolf
Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Love, Chuunbiyo & Other Delusions
Durarara!!
Time of Eve
Full Metal Alchemist
Kekkai Sensen
Haibane Remei
Minami-ke
Daily Lives of Highschool Boys
Nichibros

This isn't exactly the order we'll go in, we've skipped around a little bit. I usually find out if they are legally streamable just before we watch one, and also give the wiki page a quick skim if I haven't heard anything about it.

[Lethologica]

I think other than Hikaru no Go and more recently Sound Euphonium I've not seen much of this sort of school based slice of life club thing (and well Hikaru no Go doesn't really counts does it?)

Hikaru no Go counts as whatever it wants to be, because it's Hikaru no Go.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Hikaru no Go is a hobby manga with enough sports elements that I just think of it as a sports manga.

[Kato]

9So... I guess it's kind of early but any thoughts on Ironblooded Orphans yet?

Spoiler

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I guess by now I've seen too many shows... Orga and Mika somewhat remind me of Simon and Kamina, though I guess Mika doing more of the work makes him more Eren's Mikasa...

Princess is... well, Relena with a dash of Laxus and a bit of whatshername from that other popular mecha last year... you know, the one with the super smart main. Gosh, I've already forgotten about anything about that show. But yeah, I really don't expect much from her yet, but this means she can mostly surprise me in a positive way.

Otherwise... I think it's actually kind of decent so far. Things look nice enough, yeah, it's AGAIN Mars vs Earth (seriously, you could think mecha writers think there already is a colony on mars or something) and we didn't get a lot of action yet but... eh, I'm curious enough.

[Fri]

But I can also add Nichibros to it.

Nichibros is fan nickname of daily live of highschool boys

Because there's a slice of life anime titled nichijou (which roughly mean daily life) so daily life of highschool boys is nichibros.

[cobaltstarfire]

Nichibros is fan nickname of daily live of highschool boys

Because there's a slice of life anime titled nichijou (which roughly mean daily life) so daily life of highschool boys is nichibros.

Ahhh ok, well thanks for letting me know! I won't have to come back later and be like "Guys? what the heck I can't even find this "nichibros" thing"

[Lethologica]

Ahhh ok, well thanks for letting me know! I won't have to come back later and be like "Guys? what the heck I can't even find this "nichibros" thing"

Nichijou is also to be recommended, FWIW.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Nichijou is also to be recommended, FWIW.

I am procrastinating on that.

[cobaltstarfire]

*scratches out "bros" and writes in "jou"*


I think Hikaru no Go is probably the closest thing to a sport anime I've watched.

Are sports anime like a subset of slice of life in most cases? Or are they usually more focused on the sport? ...Or does it depend on the anime. I've never really looked at them before cause I'm not that into watching sports...unless there are some for the more martial ones (fencing/kendo/archery/tankery apparently)

[ex cathedra]

i'd say that sports anime are typically most similar to shonen and action anime with sports substituted instead of, y'know, fighting or whatever else is used to convey action.

[Lethologica]

Every sports anime plot ever: Unlikely but talented protagonist joins underdog team, they resolve to win a championship through the power of friendship, they discover their sports superpowers while fighting a bunch of other teams with their own superpowers, they lose the fall championship, this setback only makes them stronger, they go to the spring championship and are now friends with everyone they faced in the fall, the team that won the fall championship loses in a shocking upset to a new final boss team with ties to the protagonist's past, protagonist's team wins spring championship.

As far as good sports anime for people new to the genre, I've recommended Ping Pong The Animation before, and I'm going to recommend it again, because it's both excellent and short.

Hikaru no Go could have been a sports anime--Hikaru is a lot like a sports anime protagonist--but it's (a) obsessed with depicting Go in a realistic way and (b) ultimately a ghost story, both of which are good things IMO.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Baby Steps seems like a pretty typical sports anime (in my completely inexperienced eyes, having never watched/read another sports anime/manga), but it's more slice-of-life. In fact, my main complaint with it is that the tennis matches take too long, they're getting in the way of the slice-of-life! >_> I don't think it's really shounen (except for that one match with Ide, and in that case the roles were reversed and the MC was the smart technical one).

[HMS Invincible]

Every sports anime plot ever: Unlikely but talented protagonist joins underdog team, they resolve to win a championship through the power of friendship, they discover their sports superpowers while fighting a bunch of other teams with their own superpowers, they lose the fall championship, this setback only makes them stronger, they go to the spring championship and are now friends with everyone they faced in the fall, the team that won the fall championship loses in a shocking upset to a new final boss team with ties to the protagonist's past, protagonist's team wins spring championship.

As far as good sports anime for people new to the genre, I've recommended Ping Pong The Animation before, and I'm going to recommend it again, because it's both excellent and short.

Hikaru no Go could have been a sports anime--Hikaru is a lot like a sports anime protagonist--but it's (a) obsessed with depicting Go in a realistic way and (b) ultimately a ghost story, both of which are good things IMO.

Lol,I like how every sports anime sounds suspiciously like kuroko basketball. Try one outs. It's a baseball anime, but with an antihero protagonist.