Gunnerkrigg Court 6: Fire Away

[spectralphoenix]

It's unclear why Tony feels being cut off from the Court at graduation would be such a terrible thing. So far as we know, the Forest remains an alternative that would welcome her. So, is something at stake that we don't realize? Obviously, he feels he's protecting Annie. But, at this point, it seems like, with supportive relatives like this, who needs enemies?

Keep in mind that Coyote apparently has plans for Annie relating to the Court. I get the feeling that if she suddenly became useless for those plans, the Forest would be a lot less whimsical fun. Or roughly the same whimsical fun, until one day Coyote whimsically decides that being refused a story or smacked on the rump or whatever is a mortal insult, not funny.

And even not knowing what we do, the adults certainly seem to think she'd get herself killed behaving as she does in the Forest. (Incidentally, this is another reason not choosing Annie as medium was an entirely justifiable course of action on the Headmaster's part.)

[Shadow of the Sun]

And Donny more or less expresses what I think this chapter is about- it's not trying to exonerate Tony, or say that what he's done isn't ****ed up. But it is supposed to show that he's a human and isn't just moustache twirlingly evil.

[Emperordaniel]

And Donny more or less expresses what I think this chapter is about- it's not trying to exonerate Tony, or say that what he's done isn't ****ed up. But it is supposed to show that he's a human and isn't just moustache twirlingly evil.

My thoughts exactly.

[Lissou]

I think it was a good set up of the kind of person he is, but it was a second-hand account of him as a teenager. I was thinking more something being shown at the same time as he was doing all these things in the present (well, very recent past, now). The fact that he shut down when he was a kid may explain why he's a cold person, but it doesn't really explain why he would operate on Antimony or call on the phone but not talk to her, or any of the things that were explained later not by his personality, but by magical events we had no way of guessing.

[Chromascope3D]

No wonder Tony's so grumpy, what with all those neck cramps he should have...

[eschmenk]

No wonder Tony's so grumpy, what with all those neck cramps he should have...

...and a hangover. If it's not a weekend, he's likely to miss showing up for class, too. When Donnie arrived it was dark outside, but it's light now, so it must be the next morning. I think Donnie probably did this on a weekend so that it wouldn't be a problem, though.

At least Annie knows how to handle her father now. She needs to have Kat set up a moonshine still or use her robots to steal all the whiskey in the Court and keep Tony drunk all the time. It seems as if he can only tell that he's screwing up when he's drunk.

[NEO|Phyte]

but it doesn't really explain why he would operate on Antimony

Did you miss the part where he didn't know Antimony was being affected until Zimmy etherpunched him?

[eschmenk]

And Donny more or less expresses what I think this chapter is about- it's not trying to exonerate Tony, or say that what he's done isn't ****ed up. But it is supposed to show that he's a human and isn't just moustache twirlingly evil.

But no one should have thought that he was moustache twirlingly evil. It came across that he was incredibly insensitive and overreacting. That's not moustache twirlingly evil. And let's not forget that Annie was breaking rules and cheating. She deserved some punishment, just not what he gave her.

Annie should be really really depressed now that Donnie showed her how pathetic her father is. Before, she could hope that as long as she obeyed the rules starting now, he would eventually be pleased and stop acting like he was. Now she knows it wasn't just an overreaction. Her father is just a totally messed-up person. Obeying the rules won't fix that. Annie should think that she is really, really screwed now. (Yes, that's probably thinking too much like an adult, but that's the way the story comes across to me.)

[Marcelinari]

The problem is that, to all appearances, Tony was being willfully insensitive and demanding. It didn't seem like he was overreacting in an emotional way (because he appeared to have no emotions) - he was being deliberately overbearing and unduly harsh, for no apparent reason. He didn't come across as evil, no - but he came across as cold, calculating, and deliberately cruel. This chapter showed us that he was actually being reactionary, shortsighted, and accidentally cruel. The character has become more 3-dimensional... but he remains a mean character who I do not yet wish to forgive.

Also remember, in the case of Annie getting depressed, that she's keeping her emotions not just locked up tight, but she's giving them what appears to be an out-of-body experience. Annie won't show depression, and she was already willing to forgive her father for anything. Her fire-soul, on the other hand, is likely to combine its rage with sadness... which is rarely a good combination. She might even take (tiny, tiny) steps towards reconciliation and a closer emotional bond - I would not put it past her to ask to go for a picnic. That would show Tony that Annie doesn't hate him (as much as he thinks) and Annie that Tony is capable of, y'know, at least pretending to be a father.

[eee]

Jeez, Donald, ease him over to the big chair, or to bed, or onto the floor: Like that he's likely to fall over backwards and break his fool neck. He's at least going to wake up with serious cricks in his back, neck, and arms.

...

He's still a ****. That we understand why doesn't change his nature. But now that Annie does, too, SHE might be able to help him. The child helping the adult grow up and become a whole person: That's not the way it's supposed to work, but sometimes what happens, happens. I imagine she and Flame-Annie are going to reintegrate now, as the emotional overload that caused Annie to separate her rage and hurt from herself should be reduced.

...

I *will* give Tony points that he was not trying to deliberately separate the Fire Elemental from Annie himself, regardless of what harm it might cause. He was just the easy dupe of those who wanted to do that. The suggestion has been made it might have been the Court, and it's not impossible. They want to study the Elemental and don't particularly care what the consequences are to Annie of forced separation, they come up with some Etheric means to do so but it can only be used by a blood relative willing to make a tremendous sacrifice, they drug, beat, and manipulate Tony with fake psychopomps until he does it, and are only defeated by Zimmy's unexpected intervention. Or those might have been real magical monsters out to kill Annie for their own reasons. We don't know enough to say anything at this point except that Tony shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for himself; or anyone else apparently.

[eschmenk]

The problem is that, to all appearances, Tony was being willfully insensitive and demanding. It didn't seem like he was overreacting in an emotional way (because he appeared to have no emotions) - he was being deliberately overbearing and unduly harsh, for no apparent reason. He didn't come across as evil, no - but he came across as cold, calculating, and deliberately cruel. This chapter showed us that he was actually being reactionary, shortsighted, and accidentally cruel. The character has become more 3-dimensional... but he remains a mean character who I do not yet wish to forgive.

I guess it depends on how you read it. He came across more as having a stick up his rear and not having a realistic expectation of what to expect from children to me. He seemed to think that the school had been too lax, therefore he created a tougher syllabus for the class he was teaching and was going to be rough on anyone who disobeyed the rules in the class.

The other thing is that Tony was being unfairly blamed to some extent. It's probably not his fault that Annie was held back a year, as humiliating as it was. That was the fault of Annie and the teachers who let Annie cheat. It's probably not his fault that he was the first teacher to require that Annie remove her makeup. It's not his fault that Jones didn't do more to keep Annie out of the forest if doing so was going to have negative repercussions for her. Of course, all this assumes that staying in the Court's "program" is important for Annie somehow, but Tony seemed to think that it was.

Granted, the people in the class are about four years younger, but Tony acted like a pussycat compared to the professor who taught the flunk-out class I survived in college. (Granted, the professor's hatred was faked, but certainly seemed real at the time. I didn't catch on until well after the class was over.) You also hear stories of parents who were really cold to their children. All together, the previous chapter made Tony seem bad, but not hideously so, to me. Again, I doubt that's the way I was supposed to read it, but that's the way it came across to me.

One good thing that did come out of the current chapter is that we saw that, even though he didn't want to, Tony returned to the court apparently because he saw that he needed to for Annie's sake. That was the only redeeming thing we saw about him, IIRC. (Yes, he can love, but it mostly seemed as if he can only love in a needy, infantile way, so I'm not counting that.)

[BannedInSchool]

Sure, when I secretly video survey someone without their permission I'm a creep...

[Lissou]

Did you miss the part where he didn't know Antimony was being affected until Zimmy etherpunched him?

Not at all. I'm commenting that I dislike this part being so long after the fact, rather than having hints about what was going on at the time. The complaint isn't "we have no idea what's going on (now)" but "it was shown to us in such a way that whether it was planned that way the whole time, or the author came up with the explanation the day of the explanatory strip, we can't really tell". I mean I know the strip is planned ahead and many things have been foreshadowed over the years. I feel this is a situation that could have been handled better, unless the point was "surprise! I pretended he was horrible but he isn't! That was totally the plan all along, promise!" or something along those lines.

[Aldrakan]

It's probably not his fault that he was the first teacher to require that Annie remove her makeup.

Wait what? This chapter made it even more obvious that he told her to do that because she looked too much like Surma. There's never been the slightest indication that's a school rule Annie was violating, he even said "in my class".


Kudos to Donny, I think this is probably pushing towards the best outcome they could hope for. Annie sees that her father has sympathetic motives and loves her even if he is totally worthless at expressing it, and she sees that he's a flawed person who doesn't have all the answers and is capable of making serious mistakes. Understanding that is probably a necessary step towards achieving less toxic power dynamic that doesn't require her just hating him.

[Morty]

Annie's relationship with her father certainly wasn't anywhere near healthy even before he showed up and started being outright abusive. Seeing him with his guard down might indeed help Annie deal with it. Eventually.

[Lethologica]

I don't think it's that there haven't been indicators of Anthony's, uh, Hanlon's Razor fulfillment, so much as that the indicators have all been Donald telling us there are indicators.

[eee]

Annie's relationship with her father certainly wasn't anywhere near healthy even before he showed up and started being outright abusive. Seeing him with his guard down might indeed help Annie deal with it. Eventually.

Maybe sooner than eventually. Annie's big problem has been absolute hero worship of Tony. He could do no wrong, she craved his approval, he was all wise and knowing, she was not worthy... When Rey dared to criticize Tony she lashed out at Rey savagely. Now she's seen Tony's badly flawed, often foolish, considers himself a failure... That should keep her from tearing herself apart to meet an impossible ideal, AND make her views of him more realistic. And keep his abuse from hurting her, when she realizes what a small man he is.

[Morty]

Maybe. He may have been knocked from the pedestal Annie had put him on, but it'll take her a while to process this, more likely than not.

[eschmenk]

Wait what? This chapter made it even more obvious that he told her to do that because she looked too much like Surma. There's never been the slightest indication that's a school rule Annie was violating, he even said "in my class".

None of the other students who are required to obey the rules seen to be wearing makeup, so it seems likely that it is a rule. The other teachers allowed Annie to violate the rules (they allowed her to cheat), so the "in my class" does not suggest that it wasn't a rule. I could easily mean that he is going to enforce the rule in his class, unlike the other teachers.

Yes, it is true that by not enforcing certain rules, the teachers had implicitly indicated that those rules didn't apply to Annie. Apparently, though, the Court's administration didn't agree, so it was not wrong for Tony to apply the rules to Annie, even though he was the first teacher to do so.

We probably aren't supposed to think about it, but if the other teachers had been doing their jobs, the Court never would have decided that it should get rid of Annie and Tony wouldn't have needed to come back and try to "fix" her. The teachers who were so lax are as much to blame as anyone else.

[Aldrakan]

None of the other students who are required to obey the rules seen to be wearing makeup, so it seems likely that it is a rule. The other teachers allowed Annie to violate the rules (they allowed her to cheat), so the "in my class" does not suggest that it wasn't a rule. I could easily mean that he is going to enforce the rule in his class, unlike the other teachers.

Margo was clearly wearing lipstick. I mean it's not impossible that eye makeup was against the rules and lipstick wasn't and/or the court insisted that he enforce their dress code on her and only her, but I don't see how you can consider that "probable" when there is no evidence of that beyond the vague point of the court cracking down on Annie when Anthony clearly stated that how much she looked like Surma was overwhelming to him and his immediate action was to demand she go do something that lessened that resemblance.

[eschmenk]

Margo was clearly wearing lipstick.

I'm not so sure. I think that may be an attempt to show a racial trait.

[Lissou]

She may have been wearing lip gloss. To be honest, I didn't realise Antimony was wearing lipstick rather than just eye shadow until Margo was brought up. I think Annie's makeup was definitely more obvious at any rate.

Anyway, can someone point out t me a picture of Surma where she is wearing heave make-up shadow that goes way around her eyes like Annie wears? I checked back the archives and saw the last time she appeared to Tony, and she had zero make-up, and I don't remember her wearing make-up, so it seems to me she looks MORE like Surma without the makeup, not LESS. So I don't think "she wore makeup so she looked like Surma, so Tony made her remove it" makes a lot of sense. Unless the make-up makes her look older or something? I just don't follow, I fully admit that I may be wrong as I didn't specifically check if Surma wore make-up in the past, but this just confuses me.

[Mith]

Most pictures I can find of Surma when she was younger show her wearing makeup, but not quite like Annie. (you might have to scroll through the chapter to get a better look at Surma's face.)

[Hytheter]

Anyway, can someone point out t me a picture of Surma where she is wearing heave make-up shadow that goes way around her eyes like Annie wears?

When has Annie's make up ever gone all the way around her eyes?

Regardless, Surma's makeup here is all but identical to Annie's on the next page.

Most pictures I can find of Surma when she was younger show her wearing makeup, but not quite like Annie.

In what way is it not like Annie? Looks exactly the same to me. Unless you're looking at the older chapters but even then the only real difference is how far up the eyshadow goes.

[Lissou]

Most pictures I can find of Surma when she was younger show her wearing makeup, but not quite like Annie. (you might have to scroll through the chapter to get a better look at Surma's face.)

The makeup does seem similar (same colors), thanks for the link!

[Shadow of the Sun]

Update.

Someone appears to agree with the general consensus of the thread.

[Emperordaniel]

Annie, no. What did Donny just say to you.

[Lizard Lord]

/Facepalm

[Morty]

Yep, about what I expected. Years of rationalization and justification are not broken through so easily. Annie has been telling herself that Anthony "has his reasons" for a very long time. Admitting that her father is a flawed person who made huge mistakes and has no idea what he's doing would shake her world-view too much.

[Lethologica]

Each half of Annie views these revelations as furthering its narrative about Anthony. This happens in politics all the time; I guess internal politics count too.