Gunnerkrigg Court 6: Fire Away

[Domochevsky]

...I am highly curious what the aftermath of this will look like once we're back to regular view.

Also, yes, all these symbolic representations of people are quite interesting.

[eschmenk]

I wonder which building Coyote broke. Maybe the energy gathering building by the lake. THAT would get the Court's attention.

That building didn't seem to be anything special. It was apparently vacant and at least relatively unsecured when the kids observed the power plant from it. Maybe it's used for something during the day or it's completely unused; I don't know. It didn't seem to have any access to the lake or the power plant, though, at least not until Jack knocked out a window and built a bridge from the building to the wall around the lake. Perhaps the Court moved everyone out so people wouldn't notice what was happening at the plant, although the Court didn't seem to be trying very hard to keep things secret.

Perhaps the building is the one Annie lived in. Perhaps Coyote knocking the top off and exposing the Fire Elemental wasn't entirely accidental. That would be my guess if it's not random.

[Morty]

I guess Tony makes for a pretty convenient scapegoat for the Court.

[VariaVespasa]

Perhaps the building is the one Annie lived in. Perhaps Coyote knocking the top off and exposing the Fire Elemental wasn't entirely accidental. That would be my guess if it's not random.

I doubt its entirely random. You cant be an effective trickster if youre just random. Coyote carefully decided what result he wanted to achieve on the court and selected an action that might achieve that effect. He might very well have randomly selected a specific action type off a list of possible general actions that might create the result, and he might well have selected the building randomly to start with, but it seems to me a certainty that once selected he checked the action and target to make sure they fit his criteria for his intended result before actually acting.

[Ellen]

Well, this is awkward.

[Emperordaniel]

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I'm beginning to wonder whether the ban on Annie's visiting the forest was not intended by the Court, but was something Anthony came up with on his own.

[Lissou]

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I'm beginning to wonder whether the ban on Annie's visiting the forest was not intended by the Court, but was something Anthony came up with on his own.

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Either way, it's nice to see him willing to stand up to both the Court and Coyote in order to protect his daughter... although part of me does wonder if the Court is using him as a pawn/scapegoat and pretending he's the only one refusing while telling him he has to refuse or else

[halfeye]

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Either way, it's nice to see him willing to stand up to both the Court and Coyote in order to protect his daughter... although part of me does wonder if the Court is using him as a pawn/scapegoat and pretending he's the only one refusing while telling him he has to refuse or else

Yeah, but the "else"s just got sesn and raised, what he did then is interesting, but he's perhaps got time to change his mind on that.

[Chromascope3D]

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I'm beginning to wonder whether the ban on Annie's visiting the forest was not intended by the Court, but was something Anthony came up with on his own.

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Maybe, but I'm still of the opinion that they brought him back for the sole purpose of corralling Annie without having to answer to Coyote for doing so. He may have come up with the idea, but it was probably the idea that the Court wanted from the get-go.

That being said, who wants to bet that Coyote does or attempts to do something to harm Anthony and, in doing so, turns Annie away from the forest?

[lord_khaine]

Well, this certainly raised my esteem for Tony a few notches, it takes something to stand up to Coyote like that, and as such then i think it was a very valid point to make.

I am a bit confused though, how Coyote could knock that building down when suposedly he is outbound to not interfer with the court.

[eschmenk]

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I'm beginning to wonder whether the ban on Annie's visiting the forest was not intended by the Court, but was something Anthony came up with on his own.

Yes, I think so. The Court might view it as a waste of Annie's time and a distraction from her studies and indicate that Annie's loyalties were in the wrong place, but otherwise not care much. (Since the Court pretty much gave up on Annie anyway, they might not even worry about that anymore.) The Headmaster acted bored and didn't bother telling Annie why he thought it would be a bad idea to be Coyote's medium; he told Jones to do it and let the matter drop when Jones didn't say anything. That's consistent with the Court caring very little about what choice Annie made beyond what it said about Annie.

The problem with the conspiracy theory is that the Court wouldn't seem to have much of a motive. If the Court sees the creatures of the forest as "little more than dull minded animals", the Court shouldn't be worried about much. The Court already made it known that it didn't want Annie to serve as Coyote's medium, so it can't hide that.

The best argument against the conspiracy theory is that the Court was allowing Annie to go into the Forest and work as Coyote's medium. The conspiracy theory would require the Court to have reversed its position about that. Why would the Court have changed its mind? As a secondary matter, if they they thought there was a new justification for keeping Annie out of the Forest, why would they think that they needed to blame a scapegoat?

I think the most likely explanation for what happened between Tony and the Court is still:
1) The Court decided that Annie was more trouble than she was worth, so they would kick her out as soon as school ended.
2) The Court found Tony and wanted him back (because they didn't trust him to not cause problems, probably), but he didn't want to come back.
3) Tony found out about the Court giving up on Annie.
4) Tony proposed his plan to redeem Annie in the Court's eyes. Tony agreed to come back under the condition that the Court allowed him to carry out his plan. Not being allowed in the Forest was part of Tony's plan.

I am a bit confused though, how Coyote could knock that building down when suposedly he is outbound to not interfer with the court.

The "fairly transparent ruse" probably wasn't any more legal. Both sides seem to violate the agreement on occasion.

Well, this certainly raised my esteem for Tony a few notches, it takes something to stand up to Coyote like that, and as such then i think it was a very valid point to make.

Unfortunately for Tony, Coyote may have an even better point to make about putting Annie in danger if Coyote somehow knows about Tony's attempt to see Surma. I'm not sure how Coyote would know, but it would explain why Coyote is laughing.

Tony didn't seem to know how the Court found him. Perhaps Coyote had something to do with that, even.

[eee]

Tony's either got stones, or he's so depressed and/or single minded he's not considering the danger of talking back to Coyote.

Or he and Coyote have history, and he knows Coyote won't swat him. From what he said when he found out about Annie's parentage, Coyote knew a lot about these five/six students way back when. This may not be the first time Coyote and Tony have stood face to muzzle.

Well, this certainly raised my esteem for Tony a few notches, it takes something to stand up to Coyote like that, and as such then i think it was a very valid point to make.

I am a bit confused though, how Coyote could knock that building down when suposedly he is outbound to not interfer with the court.

It depends on exactly what Coyote's promise entailed. It could be argued that Coyote isn't interfering with the Court so much as he's reacting to the Court interfering with the Forest by allowing Tony to stop Annie from doing her job.

[eschmenk]

I noticed that the link between Annie and presumably the Fire Elemental isn't shown on this page. Is it just because there was text in the way? It could have easily been shown behind the text, though. I doubt the omission is meaningful, but it might have something to do with what Coyote did to the building.

[Lethologica]

I noticed that the link between Annie and presumably the Fire Elemental isn't shown on this page. Is it just because there was text in the way? It could have easily been shown behind the text, though. I doubt the omission is meaningful, but it might have something to do with what Coyote did to the building.

In the most recent three pages, Annie's hair has ended in the 'ground' symbol, representing her separation from the fire elemental. Before that, the fire elemental was represented by a yellow crown inside her, as here. Not sure what else you're referring to.

[eschmenk]

I was referring to the decorated white line that seemed to run from Annie off the right side of this page both times Annie is shown there. It's not on the current page. It's also not present when the fire crown symbol was drawn inside Annie, so I assumed that the fire elemental is at the other end of the line.

[Lethologica]

I was referring to the decorated white line that seemed to run from Annie off the right side of this page both times Annie is shown there. It's not on the current page. It's also not present when the fire crown symbol was drawn inside Annie, so I assumed that the fire elemental is at the other end of the line.

Ah. You mean these white lines. Good spot; I missed that. No, I'm not sure why it's absent here, or what it represents.

[halfeye]

I was referring to the decorated white line that seemed to run from Annie off the right side of this page both times Annie is shown there. It's not on the current page. It's also not present when the fire crown symbol was drawn inside Annie, so I assumed that the fire elemental is at the other end of the line.

That link takes me to the "transparent ruse" page, Annie is on it once, and I don't see a white line at all.

[Fawkes]

That link takes me to the "transparent ruse" page, Annie is on it once, and I don't see a white line at all.

10 charact

Ah. You mean these white lines. Good spot; I missed that. No, I'm not sure why it's absent here, or what it represents.

[Qwertystop]

It's pretty faint on that background, going off the edge behind her

[eschmenk]

That link takes me to the "transparent ruse" page, Annie is on it once, and I don't see a white line at all.

Sorry about that. Yes, Lethologica posted the correct link. Thanks.

[spectralphoenix]

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I'm beginning to wonder whether the ban on Annie's visiting the forest was not intended by the Court, but was something Anthony came up with on his own.

Seeing as the second half of his punishment was exactly what the court tried to insist on after Annie was removed as temporary medium, I'm pretty sure the Court was involved. If anything, the first half (being held back a grade and removed from the year 10 dorms) was probably only there because it wouldn't be possible to punish her for cheating without failing her for the work she cheated on.

Though really, am I supposed to be taking the Court/the Headmaster as a serious villain at this point? In his first appearance, he got humiliated by Annie, her friends, and his own employees in front of Coyote. Now it turns out that Coyote can smash up the place whenever he feels like it (apparently that whole ghost-poisoned river thing was a waste of everyone's time) and is willing to do so should Annie be inconvenienced. For all the ominous whispering, the Court has yet to show any actual authority that can't just be laughed off by Annie or her powerful friends.

[Emperordaniel]

Coyote smashed one building, and it was over a disagreement concerning one of his own being kept in the Court. Plus, there's the fact that the Court allowed Coyote to come across - word of Tom is that if Coyote tried to cross the river without having permission to use the bridge, Jeanne would put up enough of a fight to not make it worth Coyote's while.

[eee]

Though really, am I supposed to be taking the Court/the Headmaster as a serious villain at this point? In his first appearance, he got humiliated by Annie, her friends, and his own employees in front of Coyote. Now it turns out that Coyote can smash up the place whenever he feels like it (apparently that whole ghost-poisoned river thing was a waste of everyone's time) and is willing to do so should Annie be inconvenienced. For all the ominous whispering, the Court has yet to show any actual authority that can't just be laughed off by Annie or her powerful friends.

The thing is, the Headmaster is only the visible face of the Court: The puppet who handles public relations. The list of what the Court has accomplished - recruiting Zimmy (and apparently knowing all about her and Gamma before hand), the power plant, the nanotechnology they're using to keep track of the students, the ease they had getting Tony back after his 'adventure' - all suggest a very powerful, very effective organization. Coyote calls Eglamore, Jones, and the Headmaster 'the Lords of the Court'; but I think we haven't seen the actual Lords of the Courts, the ones REALLY giving orders...

[eschmenk]

Though really, am I supposed to be taking the Court/the Headmaster as a serious villain at this point? In his first appearance, he got humiliated by Annie, her friends, and his own employees in front of Coyote. Now it turns out that Coyote can smash up the place whenever he feels like it (apparently that whole ghost-poisoned river thing was a waste of everyone's time) and is willing to do so should Annie be inconvenienced. For all the ominous whispering, the Court has yet to show any actual authority that can't just be laughed off by Annie or her powerful friends.

Jones said that each side was as bad as the other, so I don't think you ever were quite supposed to think "villain". I can't imagine Kat's parents and Eglamore working for evil. I view the Court and Headmaster and Forest and Coyote as all being flawed and neutral.

That said, I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I know this upset some people, but one of the reasons I considered this to be a children's story is the number of times the children seem to be more competent than the adults or their robotic stand-ins. That's certainly a feature of GK. Some people like it; some don't; some rationalize it.

[spectralphoenix]

Coyote smashed one building, and it was over a disagreement concerning one of his own being kept in the Court. Plus, there's the fact that the Court allowed Coyote to come across - word of Tom is that if Coyote tried to cross the river without having permission to use the bridge, Jeanne would put up enough of a fight to not make it worth Coyote's while.

I don't know about any Word of Tom, but if he can secure a meeting whenever he feels put out, then be powerful enough to smash buildings when he gets over there, the Court isn't doing a very impressive job of maintaining their part of the balance of power. And while he did "only" smash one building, the fact that the court was scared enough to put a stop to their latest scheme to keep Annie out of the forest implies he could have smashed a lot more if he felt like it.

Furthermore, if he can just declare whoever he likes to be an honorary forest citizen and thus justification to ignore his oath, his oath never meant much in the first place (assuming hes the sort that finds oaths particularly binding in the first place.) Reynard was stuck in the Court the whole time, presumably Coyote could have rampaged whenever he felt like it.

The thing is, the Headmaster is only the visible face of the Court: The puppet who handles public relations. The list of what the Court has accomplished - recruiting Zimmy (and apparently knowing all about her and Gamma before hand), the power plant, the nanotechnology they're using to keep track of the students, the ease they had getting Tony back after his 'adventure' - all suggest a very powerful, very effective organization. Coyote calls Eglamore, Jones, and the Headmaster 'the Lords of the Court'; but I think we haven't seen the actual Lords of the Courts, the ones REALLY giving orders...

Is this something else that was revealed by Word of Tom? Because the Headmaster clearly had the power to choose the Court's medium, even if the other adults present didn't respect him or fear him enough to support his decision in public, or at least keep their mouths shut in front of the kids. And even if he is the Court's PR guy (a job which he seems eminently unsuited for) shouldn't they still get PO'd if people are disrespecting their mouthpiece?

As far as the rest goes, I'm just not really that impressed. Sure they have some nice toys, but laser cows don't make up for the fact that they don't seem to have any actual authority. Zimmy may hang around, but she has pretty much zero loyalty to the court. We didn't actually see the power plant do much of anything besides trip Zimmy out, and whatever it did wasn't important enough that Jones couldn't shut it down with a phone call with no repercussions. Keeping track of their own students while on school grounds could have been better accomplished with a camera network and some decent facial recognition software. They got Tony back by threatening to fail one of their students for academic misconduct she had actually committed.


I've no shortage of people telling me the Court is powerful, my problem is nothing is showing me the Court is powerful.

[eschmenk]

New Comic: Tony tries to feng shui Coyote's sinus cavities from the inside.

I've no shortage of people telling me the Court is powerful, my problem is nothing is showing me the Court is powerful.

I don't think we know all that much about what the Court is and a lot of what we've seen doesn't make sense if you think about it. You just have to suspend disbelief. If that bothers you too much, you will just need to stop reading GC.

[lord_khaine]

What Coyote says there is kinda wrong though, we do know that there are at least one other person who would be sad if Tony were suddenly eaten.

[eschmenk]

What Coyote says there is kinda wrong though, we do know that there are at least one other person who would be sad if Tony were suddenly eaten.

Who? Donny a little, probably, but not much. His visit with Tony was for Annie's benefit, not his own. Donny was betraying Tony's confidence. If Tony found out what Donny did, I doubt Tony would speak to him anymore.

Is there someone else?

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Coyote is surprisingly insightful at times. He psychoanalyzed Tony by breathing deep? Really?

Trudging through the archives is a pain. But it seems like Annie's collapse in "Divine" occurs before Smit's election as medium in "Changes", so it's possible that the Court found Tony between those events. The agreement with Tony would explain why they went from recommending that Annie take medium lessons (Fangs of Summertime) to picking Smit against Jones' advice (Changes).

I find it odd that the Court would need to ask Tony to let Annie go. Based on Tony's story, it would appear that he's not in a position to refuse the Court anything. So that's a bit strange. Either the Court doesn't want Annie to go and is offering Tony as a decoy for Coyote's wrath, or Tony doesn't want Annie to go and the Court is somehow obliged to consider his wishes despite the obvious danger from an angry god-level dog.

[Rodin]

Coyote is surprisingly insightful at times. He psychoanalyzed Tony by breathing deep? Really?

Trudging through the archives is a pain. But it seems like Annie's collapse in "Divine" occurs before Smit's election as medium in "Changes", so it's possible that the Court found Tony between those events. The agreement with Tony would explain why they went from recommending that Annie take medium lessons (Fangs of Summertime) to picking Smit against Jones' advice (Changes).

I find it odd that the Court would need to ask Tony to let Annie go. Based on Tony's story, it would appear that he's not in a position to refuse the Court anything. So that's a bit strange. Either the Court doesn't want Annie to go and is offering Tony as a decoy for Coyote's wrath, or Tony doesn't want Annie to go and the Court is somehow obliged to consider his wishes despite the obvious danger from an angry god-level dog.

I think the Court changed its mind on having Annie as the medium. They recommended her initially because of her mother, but then found that Annie cared a lot more for the Forest than she did for the Court. Her continually defying them will not have helped.

They decided they needed a medium that was more on their side, and used that to send a message to Annie at the same time. This backfired rather spectacularly, so they brought in Tony for damage control.