Gunnerkrigg Court 6: Fire Away

[eschmenk]

It seems very unlikely that the Court would want Tony for some sort of damage control. What sort of "damage control" could Tony do? If Tony were needed for some sort of damage control, then the Court would surely miss him if Coyote ate him. I think that what Coyote said is confirmation that Tony is of next to no value to the Court for that or any other purpose.

The Court just seems to have viewed Tony as being too dangerously stupid to be allowed to run loose where it would be hard to control him. Remember that's the way that Tony described it; it was as if the Court was reining him in. Tony gave no indication that the Court was eager to have him attempt to do anything useful to the Court. Apparently Tony convinced the Court that he wouldn't cause too much harm in a classroom, so the Court agreed to allow him to take a position as a teacher, which would hopefully keep him out of trouble. Meanwhile, he's allowed to attempt to reform Annie. The Court has no reason to object to that. It's not as if the Court cares about what happens to Annie anymore.

I think the Court could hardly care less about who is their medium. The Court didn't even bother replacing Surma after she went AWOL until after she died. That was ~13 years without anyone acting as medium, right? Meanwhile, the Court apparently had no contact with the Forest's medium, either. When the Headmaster finally got around to picking a new medium, he picked someone he knew would be inferior. We know that the Court would just as soon completely ignore the Forest, so it makes sense the the medium wouldn't matter much. It's probably just something that the Court should have just in case there is a need to talk with the Forest.

The Court apparently decided that it didn't want Annie to be the medium because she was already a bad student and being a medium was going to make her become an even worse student. That was a concern for the Court, but hardly a huge one. We also know that the Court finally gave up on Annie, probably after she agreed to become Coyote's medium. Once they gave up on her, the Court wouldn't care much about her anymore at all, even if the Court had cared earlier. (The Court never seemed all that interested.)

Just because Annie is important to the reader does not mean that Annie is important to the Court.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I don't know how Tony could be some sort of damage control, but if Tony were needed for some sort of damage control, then the Court would surely miss him if Coyote ate him. I think that what Coyote said is confirmation that Tony is of next to no value to the Court for that or any other purpose. The Court just seems to have viewed Tony as being too dangerously stupid to be allowed to run loose where it would be harder to rein him in. Remember that's the way that Tony described it; it was as if the Court was reining him in. Tony gave no indication that the Court was eager to have him try to do anything useful. Apparently Tony convinced the Court that he wouldn't cause too much harm in a classroom, so the Court agreed to make him a teacher in order to keep him out of trouble. Meanwhile, he's allowed to attempt to reform Annie. The Court has no reason to object to that. It's not as if the Court cares about how much harm he may cause her.

I think the Court could hardly care less about who is their medium. The Court didn't even bother replacing Surma after she went AWOL until after she died. That was ~13 years without anyone acting as medium, right? Meanwhile, the Court apparently had no contact with the Forest's medium, either. When the Headmaster finally got around to picking a new medium, he picked someone he knew would be inferior. We know that the Court would just as soon completely ignore the Forest, so it makes sense the the medium wouldn't matter much. It's probably just something that the Court has to do just in case there is a need to talk with the Forest.

The Court apparently decided that it didn't want Annie as the medium because she was already a bad student and being a medium was going to make her become an even worse student. That was a concern for the Court, but hardly a huge one. We also know that the Court gave up on Annie, probably after she agreed to become Coyote's medium. Once they gave up on her, the Court wouldn't care much about her anymore at all.

Just because Annie is important to the reader does not mean that Annie is important to the Court.

Coyote said nobody would be sad, other than Annie. That is independent of Tony's value (if any) as an asset to the Court.

The very next page suggests that the Court did in fact want Tony back for some purpose. A bargain implies that Tony has something of value to the Court. My guess is that the threat of Annie's banishment was leverage against Tony, who didn't want to continue his work at Gunnerkrigg. So Tony gets to prevent Annie's banishment in return for coming back to work. If neither Tony's work nor Annie's fate are of any consequence to the Court, why bother with any of it. Let Annie gallivant in the Forest while failing school and let Tony die in the wilderness after his damnfool quest. I'm assuming the Court had some hand in finding and resuscitating Tony. I doubt they would go that far to track, revive, and then strongarm someone who they planned to...stick in some meaningless job back at the Court? Help one failing student who they don't care about?

The gap between Surma and the current medium is a question, but I think the lack of concern was due to a lack of incident and also Coyote's standing promise. Once Ysengrin starting growing spiky tree arms and raging the Court may have been inclined to restart proper diplomacy. Smit's election was a compromise, not an intentional attempt to pick a sub-par medium (he wasn't Jones' first choice, but he was a legit candidate). And when the Court picked Smit for medium, Coyote declared Annie an honorary forest citizen just so he could make her the forest medium. When she was later barred from the forest he declared a diplomatic meeting just to see her, and then knocked over a building when it apparently "wasn't" her.

If the Court was in a position to simply ignore the Forest as they felt like it, and therefore Annie's value as Coyote's new fire haired BFF, and also not care about medium selection, why entertain any of Coyote's nonsense at all. Did it take him knocking over a building for them to remember what his threat level is? That seems like a terrible lapse of judgement considering the sheer amount of history between the two sides. If we take Coyote at his word in this current chapter, him knocking over the building is a genuine concern for the Court and they are now asking Tony to let Annie go, as if the ultimate decision lies with him and not them.

Either they're telling the truth, and they actually do need Tony's permission to let Annie go and thus appease Coyote, or they're lying, and simply forcing Tony to be the target of Coyote's attention. If the Court didn't care about Tony, Annie, or relations with the Forest, none of this would even be happening.

[eschmenk]

A bargain implies that Tony has something of value to the Court.

Why would it imply that? It could just as easily mean that Tony could do something that the Court wants to prevent. As I said, the way Tony described it, "...like they were reining me back in..." is more consistent with the latter interpretation.

So Tony gets to prevent Annie's banishment in return for coming back to work..

OK, but not for the same job. There is no indication that the Court had any desire for someone as irresponsible and incompetent as Tony to have anything to do with his old job anymore after they knew he had been dealing with a bunch of evil creatures. The Court may be stupid, but it's not that stupid! Tony said that he can't work as a surgeon anymore and his hand is obviously gone. (Given the number of times that being a surgeon came up, I assume that his old job involved surgery somehow.)

Tony is simply a teacher now as far as we know. We know that his old job didn't involve teaching, so apparently the new job is something completely different. There doesn't seem to be any indication that Tony had any value to the Court in connection to his old job and there is good reason to think that he wouldn't. Given all that, why would the Court make a deal to get Tony to agree to do something that Tony apparently isn't doing and that the Court probably wouldn't want Tony to do?

If the Court really wanted Tony to continue doing important his previous work, why didn't Tony say so? Why didn't he say something like, "They wanted me to come back. I hadn't finished what I started?" What he actually said, "They wanted me to come back. Like they were reining me back in after I had my fun," seems to be much more about the Court trying to prevent Tony from doing things, rather than getting him to do things.

I can't believe how much I'm writing, but maybe it would help some people if they tried to look at things from the Court's point of view. The Court probably would have been very concerned about Tony's dealings with the unidentified creatures. (Given Tony's physical condition, he probably had to explain some what happened if the Court didn't already know.) Maybe the creatures had already learned stuff by observing how Tony did things. Maybe whatever Tony made of his hand is still useful to the evil creatures. In any case, Tony clearly hadn't taken reasonable precautions. Given that, it's likely that the Court was worried that the creatures could get still more out of Tony or get Tony to cause even more harm. If some creature offered Tony a chance to meet Surma in exchange for Tony revealing Court secrets, could the Court be certain that Tony wouldn't agree? Yes, Tony probably wouldn't have gone back to the evil creatures, but given the irrational behavior he had already demonstrated, the Court couldn't have been sure that he wouldn't. Maybe the creatures would seek Tony out once he recovered. Maybe Tony would find other evil creatures and deal with them. Given the possibilities, the Court probably would have thought there were reasons to try to pull Tony back into the safety of the Court's control (to rein him back in, as Tony said), even though he probably had no other value to them anymore.

We don't really know who's idea it was that Tony would be a teacher. It may have been Tony's idea for all we know. From the Court's point of view it would have been a safe job where Tony couldn't cause too much harm and where they could keep an eye on him, so it makes sense that they would agree to the idea if there was a position available. Putting Tony in a position like that wouldn't indicate that Tony had much value to the Court, though.

That seems like a terrible lapse of judgement considering the sheer amount of history between the two sides.

Yep. It's just par for the course. Nothing unusual.

If we take Coyote at his word in this current chapter, him knocking over the building is a genuine concern for the Court and they are now asking Tony to let Annie go, as if the ultimate decision lies with him and not them.

Yep. Annie lives to make Tony, not the Court, happy. That's apparently due to her fear of abandonment combined with Annie not caring what the Court thinks. The Court knows that the Court can't control whether or not Annie goes to the Forest. That's been demonstrated in the past. The Court is no doubt worried and is hoping that Tony will convince Annie to go.

At the moment, the Court is probably hoping that Coyote will be the one to convince Tony to convince Annie. If that doesn't work, the Court will probably try to twist Tony's arms some more, but it's not clear how much leverage the Court has. The Court would have to convince Tony that the Court would be more likely to keep Annie in the program after graduation if she cooperates, but I'm not sure what kind of logic they could use to support that. (I doubt they want to make any promises and the normal position is that it's best to avoid the Forest.) If Coyote convinces Tony, the Court wouldn't have to worry about that. Added: Come to think of it, maybe Jones could help convince Tony, although since Coyote seemed to lump her in with the "Lords of the Court," maybe she already has tried. Still, there might be more that she could say.

(Hopefully it's not necessary to point out that forcibly evicting Annie into the Forest wouldn't work. If Annie just sat there and cried or immediately tried to return, it wouldn't meet Coyote's needs. Annie would have to go to the Forest willingly. BTW, for Annie to be recognized as Fire Head Girl, the fire elemental part would probably need to go, too. I'm not sure that would work, but at least Coyote would probably take it as a good faith effort.)

Either they're telling the truth, and they actually do need Tony's permission to let Annie go and thus appease Coyote, or they're lying, and simply forcing Tony to be the target of Coyote's attention.

Right. It's the first one. Annie would need to see that she has Tony's full permission before she would go. There is no need for the Court to lie about anything.

If the Court didn't care about Tony, Annie, or relations with the Forest, none of this would even be happening.

Right. As I said, the Court is concerned about how much harm Tony might do if he were outside the Court's control. Also, now that Coyote has reminded the Court once again that he's still a god, the Court is concerned about him for the moment, but as soon as the crisis is over the Court will do its best to ignore him yet again.

[Lissou]

Why would it imply that? It could just as easily mean that Tony could do something that the Court wants to prevent. As I said, the way Tony described it, "...like they were reining me back in..." is more consistent with the latter interpretation.

But Tony was dying until they rescued him and saved his life. Why would they do it if all they wanted was to make sure he didn't do something stupid? Surely, just letting him die would accomplish that. They must have had some use for it, enough to want him alive, even if it was just to sacrifice him the first chance they got. I think they wanted him because they knew Annie would listen to him. She wasn't listening to the Court at all, despite many warnings, and they were losing her. If this is all about a power fight between the Court and the Forest, they're going to want Annie on their side, or at least not actively working for the other side. She may be too difficult to control for them to keep her as medium/ally on their side, but it would be worse if she was actually on the other side working against them.

[Lethologica]

Among other things, Annie had control of Reynardine. So controlling Annie does more than keeping Annie off Team Forest.

[eschmenk]

But Tony was dying until they rescued him and saved his life. Why would they do it if all they wanted was to make sure he didn't do something stupid? Surely, just letting him die would accomplish that.

No, I don't think so. It looks as if Tony was already in a crude hospital or infirmary and well on the way to recovery before the Court found him. (Visually, a reader would have seen Tony recovered and in a bed before seeing, "...they were there" and "The Court," so "there" probably refers to that location and how could Tony have survived for months in the wilderness in the condition he was in?) Beyond that, I hope the Court has some sense of humanity and wouldn't normally just let someone just die. (OK, the original founders actually killed someone once, but I don't think that's normal.) I don't think letting Tony die ever was an option, anyway.

I think they wanted him because they knew Annie would listen to him. She wasn't listening to the Court at all, despite many warnings, and they were losing her.

They weren't worried about loosing her anymore. They had already decided that she was a lost cause. The Court was going to kick her out as soon as she graduated. As far as the Court was concerned, there wasn't any point in trying to reform her anymore.

If this is all about a power fight between the Court and the Forest, they're going to want Annie on their side, or at least not actively working for the other side.

The decision to kick Annie out seems to indicate that they don't particularly want Annie on their side, at least not in the future. I don't think this is all about a power fight, anyway. How much difference would the Court expect Annie to make if it was? (OK, Lethologica made the point about Rey. That could be more significant, but I don't see the Court worrying about things like that until they are already problems.)

Trudging through the archives is a pain. But it seems like Annie's collapse in "Divine" occurs before Smit's election as medium in "Changes", so it's possible that the Court found Tony between those events. The agreement with Tony would explain why they went from recommending that Annie take medium lessons (Fangs of Summertime) to picking Smit against Jones' advice (Changes).

There are two problems with that schedule:

1) The decision about the Mediums was made before the summer break. People were still wearing coats and warm clothing. If Tony had already decided to come back and fix Annie before the summer break started, why did he wait until the summer break was over to begin? He should have been tutoring Annie all summer. He should have made housing arrangements when there was still time to fit her in the Year 9 dorms.

2) Apparently, some "this business with the Forest" was the primary thing that Tony mentioned as a reason for the Court deciding to cast Annie out upon graduation. That decision was made before Tony found out about it, obviously. What could the "this business" be, if not Annie becoming Coyote's medium? The only other possibility would seem to Annie staying in the Forest the previous summer, but Jones had apparently smoothed that out with the Court, so that doesn't seem likely. Furthermore, the Headmaster hinted that Annie would have more time for her studying if she wasn't the Court's medium, so it was as if the Court hadn't given up on her yet.

IMO, the much more likely schedule is that Microstat 5 and Divine happened in the late Spring. Changes, although it's a later chapter, had the characters wearing heavier clothing outdoors, so it might have happened earlier. I think the Court found Tony some time in the Summer, months (according to Tony) after Divine and also months (maybe more months) after Changes. By then, the Court had decided to cast Annie out after graduation because she had been goofing off too much (while working as Coyote's medium) from the Court's point of view.

[Ellen]

We're assuming the Court is telling Tony the truth about Annie. It's a classic negotiating ploy to try and convince the other party you don't really want anything they have to offer. You're trying to convince them that if they push too hard or for too much, you'll walk away from the deal. You also want to convince them that they can't do without whatever it is you have to offer.

Tony is convinced the Court will send Annie away if he doesn't do what they say--which winds up taking the form of emotionally abusing Annie and crushing her spirit. So, did they underestimate what Coyote would do? Or did they lie to Tony?

[eschmenk]

If we go by what Jones says, we should expect that the Court would underestimate Coyote. Annie observed that the Headmaster was acting rude and as if he didn't care about the meeting with Coyote. Jones explanation: "The Court sees them as little more than dull minded animals trying to create a nuisance." Assuming Jones doesn't think agree, she was basically saying that the Court was underestimating Coyote and she said it as if it were typical behavior.

We know that the Court tried to keep Annie from going to the Forest even before Tony became involved. "I'm sure you understand that this ends your Forest visiting privileges." That's clear enough. Coyote might have considered knocking a building down then, but he found an easier way to get Annie her Forest visiting privileges back. The other idea also had the added benefit of making a fool out of the Headmaster, so no buildings were knocked down that time. Still, given that the Court was willing to (rather stupidly) risk the wrath of Coyote then, why would it be unlikely that the Court would have been willing to risk the wrath of Coyote now?

The idea that the Court lied to Tony seems to be an somewhat interesting idea, but it doesn't go anywhere. The Court may have reasonably concluded that they had nothing to loose by lying to Tony, but they also wouldn't have had any indication that they could benefit from the lie. Why would the Court have thought that Tony would have cared about whether Annie was kicked out or not? He had never shown any interest in her at all. They probably were shocked when they realized that they had some leverage over Tony thanks to Annie. What the Court told Tony certainly wouldn't need to be a lie. The Court could easily have decided to kick Annie out. She gave them plenty of reasons to do it.

It would be a logical flaw to think it was one or the other though. Even if the Court lied to Tony, the Court still underestimated Coyote apparently. If the Court hadn't underestimated Coyote, they should have realized that Tony's plan would have caused too many problems with Coyote. That's true whether or not they lied to Tony. It turns out that nothing would change even if the Court had lied to Tony, except that it would be less likely that Annie would be kicked out at the end of everything. That's why I said that the idea doesn't go anywhere.

[geoduck]

And we need to remember we're getting all this latest information through Coyote. He probably isn't overtly lying about stuff, but pretty much his whole shtick is telling self-serving contradictory stories about himself.

[eschmenk]

New comic: You done screwed up again, Tony.

[Emperordaniel]

What I really want to know is why is there a squid in Tony's mind.

[eschmenk]

He had calamari for lunch?

[-Sentinel-]

He's possessed by Cthulhu?

[eschmenk]

He's possessed by Cthulhu?

That would be more like calamari having him for lunch, I guess. Hopefully that didn't happen. Maybe he read 2000 Leagues Under the Sea last night?

[Spojaz]

I think it is more important that the jellyfish are frowning. If the war within you is so bad that even the brainless invertebrates are suffering, you need some help.

[eschmenk]

That white line that was shown here (correct link this time) is missing again. I think there was enough room to show at least a little of it between Annie and the edge of the page, so I'm becoming more convinced that it's missing for a reason. (Whether or not that reason has much to do with the plot is another question.)

[Emperordaniel]

Spoiler

Show

I'm guessing the promise has something to do with the rabbit-student she said she'd try to let the fairy visit?

[eschmenk]

Spoiler

Show

I'm guessing the promise has something to do with the rabbit-student she said she'd try to let the fairy visit?

Spoiler

Show

Annie's promise was that she would bring the rabbit-student to the forest to visit the fairy. (Going the other direction.) That ensures that Annie would go to the forest, as Coyote wants. (Tony had finally given permission for Annie to go, but Annie probably wouldn't want to go, given the state that she is in now. Annie will go in order to keep the promise, though.) I think that promise is the most likely promise, but I'm not sure there wasn't some other promise that we don't know about yet.

Is anyone going to wake up the headmaster? Except for the building being pushed over, this had almost nothing to do with the Court. He may be sound asleep.

The white line did connect to the fire elemental, after all. I wonder why it was missing from a couple of pages, then. I guess artistic choice?

[Cyber Punk]

Spoiler: On the white line

Show

I'd wager that the earth symbol on Annie's hair also serves as an indicator that it leads to her crown fire spirit. Kind of like how a sign that looks very much like the tilde is used in electronic diagrams to show a break of some sort.

It was probably a way to show her connection to the fire-spirit without having to use the white line, as an artistic choice.

[Alent]

I've no shortage of people telling me the Court is powerful, my problem is nothing is showing me the Court is powerful.

A little late to reply this... but...

The Court really isn't exercising the power it could in a classic ruse, themselves. By not acting when provoked, they're introducing an "unknown" element of power. Ysengrim falls for it, Coyote doesn't. Think about what we have seen them do: keeping DragonsRogat Orjaks imprisoned, chaining spirits to the material world and transforming them into embodiments of pure rage, creating what seems to be an artificial afterlife in a lake, and creating a city that for all intents and purposes appears to be larger than it's actual physical volume from what sounds like "absolutely nothing". (Which is maintained by self-aware Von-neumann machines and inhabited by human beings who each have a special and unique power)

That isn't counting the potential of the Etheric Sciences division, which we haven't seen because the Court puts up the outer facade of disapproval for and the main characters naively take the ruse at face value. We know this is a facade because they make heavy use of it where appropriate to do so. The reason you don't see them as powerful is we're desensitized to and thus dismissive of technology in the face of supernatural wonderment... and so is Annie, our perspective character. (The fact most of us seem to be used to D&D's quadratic wizards probably doesn't help that bias any.)

Next, and this is conjecture on my part, but... I'm pretty sure as a god, Coyote is not on the side of the forest. I don't think I've ever seen him actuallysay he's on the side of the forest, just that he lives there and that he separated it from the court. Remember, he's the physical embodiment of the idea of the afterlife, there's no reason for him to favor one side over the other the way Ysengrim does. The dead of prosperous humanity are as much a source of delicious crunchy memories as much as Ysengrim or any other forest denizen. (If not more-so, given how fragile humans are.) Manipulating the two into being roughly equal then tricking both into imagining the other side is greater is the same as making sure that the buffet at your favorite restaurant stays fully stocked.

Also, Kat's newfound psychopomp power seems quite close to being the endgame of the court. (Coyote: "[gunnerkrigg court] is man's endeavour to become god!") Where that goes is pretty much anyone's guess.

[Domochevsky]

Ah, we now see what was toppled.

...it looks weirdly empty. Like, the whole block. No personalization or signs of living anywhere.

Glad to see you out of that "daddy's little girl" dress, Annie. It doesn't suit you. >_>

[Lethologica]

And there's Mighty Eyebrows Boy and rabbit girl, right on cue.

[Kornaki]

Ah, we now see what was toppled.

...it looks weirdly empty. Like, the whole block. No personalization or signs of living anywhere.

We've been told before that the court is almost entirely empty buildings.

[eee]

He seems a bit shy around Annie. Given that they've met before, that's odd; but maybe things have changed enough that he's feeling his way. And too, he IS a rabbit; they're not exactly aggressive, most of the time.

Oh, I *hope* Green and Bunnyboy can resume and increase their friendship!

[Emperordaniel]

I really hope nothing will go wrong on this visit...

[memnarch]

Hmm, there was 30 pages for the previous chapter, we've had 10 so far for this one. I'd guess that there'll be at least one more meeting of sorts beyond Green and Bunnyboy. At least, I'd prefer that over something bad happening.

[Ionbound]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Rabbit's friend won't remember him/her, and then everyone will go home sad.

[eee]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Rabbit's friend won't remember him/her, and then everyone will go home sad.

She'll know him. Because he's the one who gave her her name. And he's the only one beside her who knows it.

[eschmenk]

I think it's more likely that there will be a repeat of creatures not recognizing Annie since she's still missing the fire elemental part of her. Maybe there will be a lesson about Annie needing her fire elemental part?

[Rodin]

Annie's current state is really reminding me of the Star Trek episode when Kirk's personality got split in two. The super aggressive "evil" side couldn't stay out of trouble and failed to interact well with people while the pacifistic "good" side was indecisive and lost all confidence and leadership abilities.

Split in two like they are, human!Annie is missing the spark which makes her care about her surroundings while elemental!Annie is a perpetual rage-beast. And like the Trek episode, they need to get back together as soon as possible before something tragic happens as a result.