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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Giant,

    I have been reading OotS now since about 2009. I don't like posting on forums, as I am awkward and shy , but I just made this account because I want to express that finally making the books available by PDF has made my day.

    I have been wanting to buy them for so long, especially the two prequel books and the strips from Dragon magazine. I have held off of buying the entire series at once because I would have to explain to my wife how I just spent $210 on eight print books of comic strips that are available on the Internet, and that I have already read. She doesn't get my large book collection, and why I don't get rid of each book after I have finished it to save space. Always wants to get me an eBook reader for Christmas!!

    Anyway, TL;DR - Thank you so much for this, and get out the next few books as soon as you can! You have at least one customer here that will buy them as soon as they come out! Keep up the FANTASTIC work!!!

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I made the purchase yesterday and still haven't received the download link. Did it take long for others to receive theirs?

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Troubadour View Post
    Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I made the purchase yesterday and still haven't received the download link. Did it take long for others to receive theirs?
    Did you get the "you'll receive a download link soon" email? As pointed out upthread, that email lies. The download link is in that very email.

  4. - Top - End - #154
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Troubadour View Post
    Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I made the purchase yesterday and still haven't received the download link. Did it take long for others to receive theirs?
    No, you should have it within minutes. If it's not in your spam folder, you can try going to the product page again and there should be a link to re-download it. At worst, contacting Gumroad support on this page: https://help.gumroad.com/contact-us and they should be able to re-send the link email.
    Rich Burlew


  5. - Top - End - #155
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    No, you should have it within minutes. If it's not in your spam folder, you can try going to the product page again and there should be a link to re-download it.
    I never even got an e-mail in the first place, but I went back to the product's page and the link was there. Thanks a lot for the help, Mr. Burlew! :-)

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I haven't posted on or visited these forums in ages but I especially came here to deliver a huge "Thank You" for finally making these books available digitally. In all these years I've wanted to read the extra content but shipping those goods across the sea is just too costly.

    While I understand you might be afraid these PDFs will end up somewhere on the internet for the free-loaders (and they will possibly will) you've finaly made them readily available for the fans overseas and the ones posessing the 'Coin Bag of Very Limited Space*'.

    Even if the PDFs get passed around on the internet, you might end up with a lot of new fans who'll eventually buy other products. That surely seems how online marketing goes nowadays.

    I salute you!

    *Patent Pending
    Last edited by Hezus; 2015-09-13 at 08:22 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I appreciate the support, and the rest of what I write isn't aimed at you, but I needed to take a moment to get this off my chest:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hezus View Post
    Even if the PDFs get passed around on the internet, you might end up with a lot of new fans who'll eventually buy other products. That surely seems how online marketing goes nowadays.
    I know this is a common justification/excuse for pirating content these days, but it doesn't really apply to a series where 90% of the content is already freely available on my website. Am I really going to pick up a new fan because someone stole the last 10% of work that I'm not already giving away? Who is this hypothetical reader who could read all 1004 strips online for free and that's not enough to convince them to buy something, but reading those last 72 pages of On the Origin of PCs will be? It's not a realistic scenario. I don't think people pirate my content because they're curious about what this OOTS thing is all about; all they'd have to do is Google "OOTS" and they could read more than a thousand pages of it. I think people pirate my content because they're already fans but they think their right to read whatever they want whenever they want is more important than my right to make a living off of my work.

    Bottom line: The idea that an artist should be grateful for someone stealing their stuff because Exposure is already a creaky self-serving justification on the part of the thief that many artists are forced to accept simply because they have no realistic alternative, but it absolutely falls to pieces when there is more than enough free material available for any reasonable person to decide whether or not they like my comic. I've decided to put out these PDFs as a service to all the upstanding fans who won't distribute them, not because I've decided that I don't mind if a handful do. I mind. I just don't want to punish the rest of my readers over it.
    Rich Burlew


  8. - Top - End - #158
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Bottom line: The idea that an artist should be grateful for someone stealing their stuff because Exposure is already a creaky self-serving justification on the part of the thief that many artists are forced to accept simply because they have no realistic alternative, but it absolutely falls to pieces when there is more than enough free material available for any reasonable person to decide whether or not they like my comic. I've decided to put out these PDFs as a service to all the upstanding fans who won't distribute them, not because I've decided that I don't mind if a handful do. I mind. I just don't want to punish the rest of my readers over it.
    Your 'bottom line' is pretty much what I meant by the paragraph I wrote above the part you've quoted:

    While I understand you might be afraid these PDFs will end up somewhere on the internet for the free-loaders (and they will possibly will) you've finaly made them readily available for the fans overseas and the ones posessing the 'Coin Bag of Very Limited Space*'.
    I guess most people buying the PDFs are the long-time readers who weren't able to buy the physical content before, so I doubt you'll be the victim of a lot of 'thiefs'. I meant that the exposure could be a positive side-effect (small, but plausable), not that pirating these PDFs isn't considered stealing. I can clearly understand that you do mind.

    Even though most content is already available for free, who knows what this new direction might lead to? Now people who didn't buy the physical books before are suddenly paying customers as well.

    In the end I guess we have the same opinion: people should pay for the effort you've put into this and I gladly did when I ordered the digital books today :) I guess most of the OOTS readers will do so too. Therefor I'm still certain that this new direction will benefit you and the readers as well.
    Last edited by Hezus; 2015-09-13 at 10:19 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I agree, which is part of the reason I was OK with doing it. And like I said, none of that was aimed at you, it's just that you brought it up and I wanted to talk about it. Apologies if I came off a bit strident.

    Also as I previously posted on this thread, response has been adequate for me to keep releasing the existing books in PDF format, which supports the belief that most of the people who want the PDF are willing to pay for it. Considering that these two books have each been in print for ten years, it's not surprising that the sales aren't super-blockbuster exciting, too. I imagine there are lots of people who would have preferred to get the prequel book in PDF years ago but broke down and bought the paper version because I couldn't guarantee that digital editions would ever exist. OTOPCs is, after all, my best-selling book ever by a significant margin, and the digital edition is still lapping DCF in sales.

    The real open question is what I will do with regard to whatever the next new book will be—will I release digital at the same time or embargo it for a while to try and maximize print sales? I don't know yet. Ultimately, the reason I've held off on PDFs for so long has not been the piracy issue but rather the economic constraints of physical printing. If I print a bunch of books but then everyone chooses to buy digital, sure, I still make sales, but I put out a lot of money for printing that I didn't need to and I'm left with thousands of paper books that no one wants (and cost money to warehouse). I would get sales, but not have enough actual profit to support myself. The only way to make the equations work is to have a good idea of how many people will buy paper vs. digital before I put a new book on sale, and not print more paper books than I am likely to sell in the following two to three years. Whether I have enough information to make that call remains to be seen, but since I don't see a new paper book on the horizon for at least the next 5-6 months, I don't have to decide right now.
    Rich Burlew


  10. - Top - End - #160
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Is that a hint about a prequel book? I feel like this book just got started.

  11. - Top - End - #161
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    Is that a hint about a prequel book? I feel like this book just got started.
    It's only a hint if I subsequently get it finished. I've always said there's at least one more such book waiting to be written, and I have no idea exactly when (or if) I will get to it. All I can say is that I won't get to it in the next few months. I'm working on the Kickstarter O-Chul story right now (in addition to the regular comic), and I expect that to take some time.
    Rich Burlew


  12. - Top - End - #162
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The only way to make the equations work is to have a good idea of how many people will buy paper vs. digital before I put a new book on sale, and not print more paper books than I am likely to sell in the following two to three years. Whether I have enough information to make that call remains to be seen, but since I don't see a new paper book on the horizon for at least the next 5-6 months, I don't have to decide right now.
    Have you already considered a survey? I won't bore you with my suggested questions, but besides the basic PDF or print question you could ask people about their propensity to buy both if they have a significant discount (which involves even more number crunching). Including questions of past purchases may also provide you with a mild measure of the quality of the answer. Combining the last with a reward (screen saver?) for respondent if they use their GiTP account, then you could get a good measure of quality in your data. I said I won't go much into suggested questions because surveys seem to open more questions than they answer.
    I know, surveys also mean work, but this one could be a worthwhile investment in risk-reduction.

  13. - Top - End - #163
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Question Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The real open question is what I will do with regard to whatever the next new book will be—will I release digital at the same time or embargo it for a while to try and maximize print sales? I don't know yet. Ultimately, the reason I've held off on PDFs for so long has not been the piracy issue but rather the economic constraints of physical printing.
    Would you also consider some sort of third way / mixed option, where a pre-order of the paper book also 'throws in' the digital version? And then you embargo as you describe for a while? So that the sequence goes:

    • Month -1: Pre-order paper book, get digital version (free, or at cost, or just @ normal price, whatever makes economic sense)
    • Month 0: Paper book available for regular purchase, digital version not available
    • Month 0 + x: Digital version now available too



    I don't pretend to understand the economics of self-publishing, nor is it my business to have any insight into what your margins are on either version... just wondering aloud as a fan.

  14. - Top - End - #164
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Anything that requires me to correlate a purchase from Ookoodook with a purchase from Gumroad is a difficult proposition, because neither system has the capability to generate unique offer codes. They're just not set up for that sort of cross-platform cooperation, largely because Gumroad would prefer you sell physical goods through their storefront, not a third party.
    Rich Burlew


  15. - Top - End - #165
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by dmaxno View Post
    Have you already considered a survey? I won't bore you with my suggested questions, but besides the basic PDF or print question you could ask people about their propensity to buy both if they have a significant discount (which involves even more number crunching). Including questions of past purchases may also provide you with a mild measure of the quality of the answer. Combining the last with a reward (screen saver?) for respondent if they use their GiTP account, then you could get a good measure of quality in your data. I said I won't go much into suggested questions because surveys seem to open more questions than they answer.
    I know, surveys also mean work, but this one could be a worthwhile investment in risk-reduction.
    The problem with your suggestion is that people say they will buy something, and then they don't. I've been there. You can't really rely on what people say they'll spend money on and invest based on that. Might be different with an established franchise like OOTS, I guess.

    I think pre-orders are a better method: people are already putting their money where their mouth is, and it's possible to print based on how many preorders you go, so that any future sells will be pure profit or something. But even then, if nobody buys it after the preorder period, you may end up with extra copies on your end. And if too many people buy it, you might run out. I'm sure the Giant has more experience in the matter than either of us, it's not his first book after all.
    Check out my webcomic, The Meddlers!

  16. - Top - End - #166
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anything that requires me to correlate a purchase from Ookoodook with a purchase from Gumroad is a difficult proposition, because neither system has the capability to generate unique offer codes. They're just not set up for that sort of cross-platform cooperation, largely because Gumroad would prefer you sell physical goods through their storefront, not a third party.
    Ah, right. 2 different publishers. Forgot. Derp.

  17. - Top - End - #167
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The real open question is what I will do with regard to whatever the next new book will be—will I release digital at the same time or embargo it for a while to try and maximize print sales? I don't know yet. Ultimately, the reason I've held off on PDFs for so long has not been the piracy issue but rather the economic constraints of physical printing. If I print a bunch of books but then everyone chooses to buy digital, sure, I still make sales, but I put out a lot of money for printing that I didn't need to and I'm left with thousands of paper books that no one wants (and cost money to warehouse). I would get sales, but not have enough actual profit to support myself. The only way to make the equations work is to have a good idea of how many people will buy paper vs. digital before I put a new book on sale, and not print more paper books than I am likely to sell in the following two to three years. Whether I have enough information to make that call remains to be seen, but since I don't see a new paper book on the horizon for at least the next 5-6 months, I don't have to decide right now.
    I for one, and I very much doubt I'm alone in this, will always want the physical books. My collection has to be completed, and I find reading a physical book so much a different experience to reading the strips on the screen, that I value them highly as a result so it's worth the cost. Also, is also much easier to read along with my kids who both love OOTS - which is why I have a unique coaster with the unofficial OOTS heraldic shield on it (yes, it's white bg with a stick + 1 leaf) made by daughter out of hama beads and I love it... I did promise her I would post photos but I am forgetful and useless at doing things.

    I would like to read the new text written for the PDF, but I'll patiently wait until you release it more widely Rich - if you ever do. Meanwhile be saving those pennies for the next physical book release.
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 2015-09-14 at 07:55 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Unlike Hazelnut, I suspect that I am atypical in wanting both a physical and a tree-free copy of the book(s).

    But like him, I want both. :)

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    The problem with your suggestion is that people say they will buy something, and then they don't. I've been there. You can't really rely on what people say they'll spend money on and invest based on that. Might be different with an established franchise like OOTS, I guess.
    Surveys are very difficult, however, they can give you ranges. That is why I was noting ways to measure data quality.
    Give more credibility to those who claim to have made past purchases. Perhaps discard the others.
    An account that is tied to the survey (even a free one) means people are less likely to lie about their past purchases, but you have a higher percent of buyers. This gives you an upper bracket (a ceiling).
    If you can ask one or two questions based on claimed purchasing habits (i.e.: something that appears in the books only), you have a measure of true past purchasers (inaccurate, but within 20%). Think of it like a pop quiz (insert maniacal laughter from team evil). You also get to measure the % of liars misleading respondents. If the sample is large enough, you may consider applying this % to the overall survey.

    Even if the PDF+print option is not possible, a survey can give a measure of how profitable the options are. However, as I noted, a decent survey is a lot of work and a bad one will leave you with misleading answers. Tricky stuff. At times it is a lot of work and it ends up being no better than an educated guess.

  20. - Top - End - #170
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The real open question is what I will do with regard to whatever the next new book will be—will I release digital at the same time or embargo it for a while to try and maximize print sales? I don't know yet. Ultimately, the reason I've held off on PDFs for so long has not been the piracy issue but rather the economic constraints of physical printing. If I print a bunch of books but then everyone chooses to buy digital, sure, I still make sales, but I put out a lot of money for printing that I didn't need to and I'm left with thousands of paper books that no one wants (and cost money to warehouse). I would get sales, but not have enough actual profit to support myself. The only way to make the equations work is to have a good idea of how many people will buy paper vs. digital before I put a new book on sale, and not print more paper books than I am likely to sell in the following two to three years. Whether I have enough information to make that call remains to be seen, but since I don't see a new paper book on the horizon for at least the next 5-6 months, I don't have to decide right now.
    How about another Kickstarter campaign? Any money people pledge to you would actually go to your pocket (more or less) instead of vaporizing after a poll finishes and financial reality ensues for some readers. You don't necessarily need to pull out all the bells and whistles for a single book print run, either - if you keep the rewards limited to some signed books and a new magnet, your extra art overhead can be kept to a minimum.

    Bonus: you could distribute a free PDF with every physical book sold via Kickstarter's reward system.

  21. - Top - End - #171
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Recreator View Post
    How about another Kickstarter campaign? Any money people pledge to you would actually go to your pocket (more or less) instead of vaporizing after a poll finishes and financial reality ensues for some readers.
    As far as I understand, it would be "less" rather than "more". There is a reason a huge amount of Kickstarter projects, even funded way over the original goal, end up costing money to their authors rather than bringing in money. Lots of hidden costs that add up. Now, the Giant has the experience of a first Kickstarter to be more aware of those costs if he did another one, but there would definitely be costs, and they may very well be higher than the other options.
    Check out my webcomic, The Meddlers!

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    As far as I understand, it would be "less" rather than "more". There is a reason a huge amount of Kickstarter projects, even funded way over the original goal, end up costing money to their authors rather than bringing in money. Lots of hidden costs that add up. Now, the Giant has the experience of a first Kickstarter to be more aware of those costs if he did another one, but there would definitely be costs, and they may very well be higher than the other options.
    Indeed. And as Rich is still working on paying off the (largely non-monetary) costs of the first one, I highly doubt he will want to do another one unless he has no other choice.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I think people pirate my content because they're already fans but they think their right to read whatever they want whenever they want is more important than my right to make a living off of my work.
    Okay, I'm afraid I'm going to far with this reply, but let's try this.

    Honestly, shipping rates and avaibility are an issue.

    Back on the 19th october 2008, I bought this:
    OOTS02 Book - Order of the Stick: No Cure for the Paladin Blues 1 $29.95 $29.95
    OOTS00 Book - Order of the Stick: On the Origin of PC's 1 $13.95 $13.95
    OOTS01 Book - Order of the Stick: Dungeon Crawlin' Fools 1 $24.95 $24.95
    OOTS03 Book - Order of the Stick: Start of Darkness 1 $16.95 $16.95
    GIPOTS03 Book - Order of the Stick: War and XPs 1 $32.95 $32.95
    Shipping: USPS Priority Mail International Flat Rate Box: $41.45
    Sales Tax: $0.00
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total: $160.20
    That was from Ookoodook.
    Price today would be $181.45 because shipping rates would be $62.70. Shipping went from a third of the price of books to half the price.

    Also back in october 2008, 1 EUR was worth 1.34 USD while it's only worth 1.13 USD today. I'd pay 160 EUR while I paid 120 EUR back then.

    I was lucky enough to find Don't Split the Party in a store in UK for a correct price while visiting a friend in 2011.
    That friend found BRitF in UK and bought a copy for him and another for me there (in may) and I got it when he came to Paris two months later. Again for a price that seems to match the US price.
    So that's ok for these.
    They are also more or less available from amazon.

    The issue for me is Snip, Snails and Dragon Tales. Can't find it in a shop or on amazon, don't know why.
    If I want to buy it on Ookoodook, that's some $21.95 and I have to choose between :
    International Priority Envelope or Small $24.50
    International Priority Medium Box $59.65
    First Class Mail® International $20.90
    Priority Mail International® $44.10
    The first one, I can pay an expensive rate for poor shipping. Interesting. The third one seems to be the best option, but still almost the price of the book itself.
    And face it, I'm not going to pay more than $40 for that book. I have no idea how much you would receive on this Rich, but I don't think I would be paying for you to live of your work here. I would be paying stupid shipping rates because no one thought he'd be wise to send a box of these to Europe and apply decent shipping price.

    And here I come, pushing boundaries: Could I pirate Snip, Snail and Dragon Tales, I would. Without the slightest shame about it (even if I'm usually against piracy, never pirated a video game, have some 800+ mangas (japanese comic books) and never readed any online (so I'm usually some 6 months late on most series), and have some 90+% of the movies I've downloaded in DVD or BR or have seen them at the cinema (which still isn't an excuse, I know)).
    And if some day I find a way to have it in paper book in order to complete my collection for a decent price (less than 30 euros), I would bought it! Even after having readed it! Or I would buy the digital version for some 10 euros (I'm usually not fond of paying for digital content though, but I would here).

    I did not participate to the KS because my impression from this was that I would pay some $10 for a magnet I didn't care of.
    I did not follow the KS after that and missed that for this price, I would have had lot of stuff that would actually worth it (I'm refering to bonus PDF here). If I had a chance to pledge again, I totally would.
    Therefore, in the same idea than for Snip, Snails and Dragon Tales, if I had a chance to get bonus PDF from piracy before I get a chance to pay from them (I'd make you a transfer of 20 EUR right now if I could have my e-mail added to the baker's list and have download links for the digital rewards, but I CAN'T), I would. And I'm not sorry for this. And I would pay afterwards if I get a chance. Honest.


    I paid for one and only one KS, because I had experience of that frustration from OOTS. I paid for Zach Weinersmith and Boulet's KS because they are two authors I like. Shipping rates were again expensive (books were created in China, sent in US for Zach to sign/complete, sent in France for Boulet to do the same, sent back in US in order to be shipped from here... Including my two copies sent in France).
    Paid some $55 for two copies (there was an option for this, it reduces shipping cost) and added some $20 for shipping cost. Shared with a friend.
    I'm talking about that just to say that it's ****ing ridiculous that I had to pay shipping cost from US for something that traveled the world and went at some point at less than 2 kilometers of my own flat before being sent back in the US...
    (edit: Checked ouf of curiosity, the shortest path is actually 2,6 kilometers if you can't fly)



    So I hope I won't be snipped for saying that (I mean the stuff before), but please don't presume of the ideas. And please continue to think about the business model. These PDF probably are a first step. Better distribution in Europe would be great. I know that some people shared the same issues on the forum...
    PDF are not enough for me because I like to have paper books, but I'm glad a solution is being built for some others.
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-09-16 at 10:26 AM.
    Posting from France
    Sorry for my accent.

    Thanks to neoseph7 for my avatar (Allen Walker from D.Gray-Man)

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    I did not participate to the KS because my impression from this was that I would pay some $10 for a magnet I didn't care of.
    I did not follow the KS after that and missed that for this price, I would have had lot of stuff that would actually worth it (I'm refering to bonus PDF here). If I had a chance to pledge again, I totally would.
    Just one thing to point out (and it may well make you regret that decision even more): The very first reward for the Kickstarter (and, indeed, the item most touted with the Kickstarter) was the O-Chul story, How the Paladin Got His Scar. All other bonuses and benefits (specifically, the numerous other PDFs) were added in after the fact. I pledged five bucks on the first day just to get the O-Chul story, because O-Chul is my very favorite character in this strip (hint hint, Giant.... I am very eager to see how he finishes his role in the story), and everything else as the pledges kept coming in was just a delightful surprise. The news post about it even had a large, hard-to-miss image of (presumably) the cover of the story, and detailed how it would be in bluescale.

    So it kinda sucks to hear it, and I take no pleasure in saying it, but if you knew about the Kickstarter while it was going on and didn't pledge because you didn't think you'd get anything but a magnet, it's kind of your own fault for not reading into it. Like, at all.
    Cuthalion makes great avatars. Like my Silver Dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    Could I pirate Snip, Snail and Dragon Tales, I would. Without the slightest shame about it
    If you're looking for me to give you my blessing or forgiveness for being willing to steal from me, it's not going to happen.

    You are still saying that your desire to read my comic ranks higher than my right to control the pricing and distribution of my work. You are making the exact argument that I said was the reason people pirated, you're just dressing it up so you can tell me it's my fault. Further, you are specifically saying that decisions made by the US Postal Service justify you stealing from me, and the fact that you didn't pay attention to announcements during the 30 days of the Kickstarter does, too. You are basically saying that any factor whatsoever that leads to you not getting to read every single thing I ever write is justification for theft.

    To that I say, "Bull****." I have a right to control distribution of my work, even in ways you don't like. I am not obligated to make everything available to you in a format and price that you find convenient. Your only legal recourse if you don't like how I offer my content is to not purchase it. This isn't a loaf of bread that you need to steal to stay alive, it's a comic strip. Your life will go on if you never read Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. Only one of the two of us has their ability to feed and house themselves riding on this question, and it isn't you. I'm the one who has to worry whether putting out these PDFs will undercut sales so much that in six months, I won't be able to pay my health insurance.

    And frankly, it is arguments like yours that make me want to cancel the entire PDF experiment because I know there will be people who will make the exact same self-serving argument regarding my listed prices on Gumroad and then go find it posted on a torrent site somewhere for free. I have to remind myself that most of my fans will not do that; that most of them want to pay me for what I do and respect my right to make my own decisions about how and when content will be released. That most people understand that high prices don't justify theft just because you want something really bad.

    If you choose to "not feel bad" in the scenario you describe, that's on you and your conscience. But it's incredibly myopic to think that I would ever condone or accept it.
    Rich Burlew


  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Just one thing to point out (and it may well make you regret that decision even more): The very first reward for the Kickstarter (and, indeed, the item most touted with the Kickstarter) was the O-Chul story, How the Paladin Got His Scar. All other bonuses and benefits (specifically, the numerous other PDFs) were added in after the fact. I pledged five bucks on the first day just to get the O-Chul story, because O-Chul is my very favorite character in this strip (hint hint, Giant.... I am very eager to see how he finishes his role in the story), and everything else as the pledges kept coming in was just a delightful surprise. The news post about it even had a large, hard-to-miss image of (presumably) the cover of the story, and detailed how it would be in bluescale.

    So it kinda sucks to hear it, and I take no pleasure in saying it, but if you knew about the Kickstarter while it was going on and didn't pledge because you didn't think you'd get anything but a magnet, it's kind of your own fault for not reading into it. Like, at all.
    Did it change afterwards? 'cause I don't see a $5 option when I check . Also if there is a the word "exclusive" for the magnet, it isn't specified for the O'Chul story. And as I more or less said, I'm not fond of digital copies in a first place (according to a previous client a mine who's a big editor worldwide, it doesn't work much at all in France actually).
    It's my mistake, yes, but I'm sad I had no opportunity to correct it during the last 3 and half years.
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-09-16 at 02:37 PM.
    Posting from France
    Sorry for my accent.

    Thanks to neoseph7 for my avatar (Allen Walker from D.Gray-Man)

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    Did it change afterwards? 'cause I don't see a $5 option when I check . Also if there is a the word "exclusive" for the magnet, it isn't specified for the O'Chul story. And as I more or less said, I'm not fond of digital copies in a first place (according to a client a mine who's a big editor, it doesn't work much at all in France actually).
    It's my mistake, yes, but I'm sad I had no opportunity to correct it during the last 3 and half years.
    You know it hasn't been finished yet, right? How exactly am I supposed to let you "correct your mistake" for a product that does not exist yet?

    EDIT: And again, I'm not under any obligation to provide stuff to you in a format that you're "fond of."
    Rich Burlew


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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    Did it change afterwards? 'cause I don't see a $5 option when I check
    I don't think so (I honestly don't feel like checking the old Kickstarter page at the moment); all I can tell you is I'm getting all the PDFs, and I only paid $5, since I didn't care about the magnet. And it's one helluva deal, since in my mind I just paid five bucks for an O-Chul story, and I've gotten three bonus stories already, with even more yet to come.

    EDIT: This was years ago, so it's entirely possible i paid 10 bucks and got the magnet. I have a terrible memory to start with. My point remains the same; the O-Chul story was very heavily advertised as the main bonus to find the kickstarter (the main draw, that being the reprint, i did not care about at the time). i paid X amount for a single story, and am getting a bigger, unexpected windfall of stories because it did ridiculously well and The Giant capitalized on its momentum very well.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2015-09-16 at 03:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Wow. Did not expected your blessing, at all, obviously, but maybe some consideration about the issue some of us faces. I don't see how the shipping cost are your responsability, but I don't find it really fair that I have to pay twice more because of my location, while I believe, you get the same amount of money yourself. Sure, the guys doing the shipping deserve payment as well, but it's being their client that I chose not to be. Not being your. And I've been your.
    I cared to show how I bought each and every of the other books and did pay fees for the 4 first books ($40 of shipping cost for $120 worth of book sounds better than $20 shipping cost for $20 worth of book).
    It's not the price of the book that bothers me. It's the shipping cost. It's the fact that someone in the US may be able to find the book for $21 in his comic store while I have to pay twice that to get some maybe damaged book (one corner of my -1 to 3 book took a big hit when I bought them and I fancy that my physical books look like new even years after...). I find it unequal. I did not realize at all that it was your very intent to inflict a different pricing depending of location.
    I can live without that content and did so far. I'm sorry I made you upset, somewhere my message lost his original intent and went very far from it.
    Please continue the PDF operation. I'll be glad to buy day one a PDF version of Snip, Snails and Dragon Tales if the chance comes.

    Please accept my apologies and be assured that even if I still fully disagree with your position on this stuff, I will, purely out of fandom, respect your choices and will never read a pirated version of your work. Ever.
    Posting from France
    Sorry for my accent.

    Thanks to neoseph7 for my avatar (Allen Walker from D.Gray-Man)

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    I find it unequal. I did not realize at all that it was your very intent to inflict a different pricing depending of location.
    It is unequal, but it's unequal in ways that I can't fix. I can't change the USPS shipping rates to Europe which are utterly ludicrous. I can't ask Ookoodook to open a warehouse in Europe because they are a three-person company that is struggling to pay their existing warehouse rent, and even if they could manage that it wouldn't help for customers in, say, Australia. The price of the book itself is the same for everyone, and it's out of my control that the worldwide shipping network works the way it works.

    The truth of the matter is, I am a very small company. Ookoodook is a very small company, too. We are not international corporations and we do not have the resources to muscle our way through the infrastructure that underpins global shipping. We are American companies serving (mostly) American customers, and while it's great and wonderful that so many overseas readers love my work and want to read it, we can't put ourselves into financial distress in order to serve them at the same level of convenience that Americans get naturally as a result of geographic proximity. It is not our intent to inflict different pricing depending on location; it is our intent to stay afloat, which requires that we inflict different pricing. We can't absorb worldwide inequality into our operating budgets.

    And yes, when one chooses not to order because one doesn't want to be the US Postal Service's customer at those prices, that is totally fair. I understand and sympathize. It's the next step—where one decides that because they made that decision they then have the right to pirate my work anyway—that I object to. If one is not willing to pay the USPS prices on principle, then they should stand on that principle and live without the product. That's how principles work.
    Rich Burlew


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