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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I agree with The Giant. Yes, "real artist's shouldn't care about money." The thing is, i'm sure Rich, and lots, even most, artists really do wish that they could do this just out of love and the good of their hearts but, unfortunately, in our society, you need money to survive. Art is what he's good at so Art is what he needs to sell. It's always bad to Pirate but it's especially bad in Rich's case because this is't like Pirating stuff by Fox or Sony where you at least have the slim justification that they're both massive media empires who won't miss a few dollars. Rich is the media equivalent of a homeless busker in comparison to them. Stop stealing from him.

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    You shouldn't be stealing from ANYONE.

    Or if you are, don't try to dress it up as some noble quest. It's not. It's stealing. And coming onto the forums of the creator of the work and bragging about it? I don't even know what to say to that.

  3. - Top - End - #183
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    You shouldn't be stealing from ANYONE.

    Or if you are, don't try to dress it up as some noble quest. It's not. It's stealing. And coming onto the forums of the creator of the work and bragging about it? I don't even know what to say to that.
    That would be why I said it was a SLIM justification.
    Last edited by woweedd; 2015-09-16 at 03:58 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #184
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    OK, guys, let's be clear: no one said that they HAD pirated my work, so let's just keep it civil and not demand they stop doing something they aren't doing.

    For that matter, I would rather we drop this subject entirely and return to the discussion of the actual PDF products I am offering for sale, OK? Great.
    Rich Burlew


  5. - Top - End - #185
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Thanks for starting down the electronic delivery road. I just bought "On the Origin of PCs". I'm one of those who falls squarely in the category of "Able to buy items for entertainment, but can't handle any more physical stuff". In fact I only buy paper books when I am going to read them at the beach or pool, usually. So this is a good option for us to have.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I was very grateful for the digital version of Origins, since it's out of stock in the free-shipping online store that I had bought Start of Darkness in. I also bought Dungeon Crawlin' Fools as a PDF, which is likewise unavailable in that store.

    In fact, the other books also seem unavailable there anymore, so looks like PDFs are going to be my choice if I want more OotS books without paying through my nose for shipping.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Gulaghar and Ashen Lilies.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Since people are sharing their preferences... I bought both PDFs, mainly because I want to support them (and you), partially because I was curious about the extra commentary, but if I ever have to choose one or the other, I'll get the print versions. Most likely, I will get the print versions and then, finances allowing, the PDF versions at a later date as a "backup". I've moved around the world a lot and had to leave things behind, and I've also lost things in a flood before, so digital backups are nice to have, but to me they're the "hope I never need them" kind of nice to have.

    Of course, I have no idea how many people are like me. But I sincerely hope that a lot of us who were willing to pay for shipping when the PDFs weren't available will still be willing to pay for shipping once they are, because it would really hate to see the printed books become less viable and less available.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    The issue for me is Snip, Snails and Dragon Tales. Can't find it in a shop or on amazon, don't know why.
    SS&DT is an Ookadook exclusive. I'm pretty sure that was flagged as such last time I was there, at least.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Well, as someone who prefers dead tree versions but who lives in the United Kingdom, I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough when I originally read the announcement! If The Giant does publish more PDF's, then I won't hesitate to do so again!

  10. - Top - End - #190
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Quild's Avatar

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    SS&DT is an Ookadook exclusive. I'm pretty sure that was flagged as such last time I was there, at least.
    Oh, right, I missed that O_o.
    I was considering visiting this evening a comic shop that (also) sells books in English. Haven't been there for a while but never saw the OOTS books, so I wanted to enquire about how they chose what is sold here (not everything is best seller) and how they receive it.

    But I'm not familiar with the exclusivity. Does it mean that they are not allowed to buy that book and sell it with a margin while they can for the others?

    That would be the reason this one is harder to find?
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-09-17 at 05:03 AM.
    Posting from France
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    Oh, right, I missed that O_o.
    I was considering visiting this evening a comic shop that (also) sells books in English. Haven't been there for a while but never saw the OOTS books, so I wanted to enquire about how they chose what is sold here (not everything is best seller) and how they receive it.

    But I'm not familiar with the exclusivity. Does it mean that they are not allowed to buy that book and sell it with a margin while they can for the others?

    That would be the reason this one is harder to find?
    It's just not available in brick and mortar stores. And if I recall, there was talk about it being a Kickstarter exclusive at first, so it even being sold by Ookoodook at all is already more than I would have expected. I'm afraid you'll have to order that one if you want it.
    Check out my webcomic, The Meddlers!

  12. - Top - End - #192
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    The exclusivity means that if another store wanted to carry it, they would have to purchase it for full retail price from Ookoodook., pay the shipping, and then resell it at a price point high enough to make a profit (retail+shipping+profit margin). Even accounting for buying multiple copies, for almost any amount they could order, it would be cheaper for the customer to just bypass them and order straight from Ookoodook. Aside from that, the profit margin would be so small that it wouldn't really be worth it to have any in stock.

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    The exclusivity means that if another store wanted to carry it, they would have to purchase it for full retail price from Ookoodook., pay the shipping, and then resell it at a price point high enough to make a profit (retail+shipping+profit margin). Even accounting for buying multiple copies, for almost any amount they could order, it would be cheaper for the customer to just bypass them and order straight from Ookoodook. Aside from that, the profit margin would be so small that it wouldn't really be worth it to have any in stock.
    You're underestimating how volume reduces shipping fees.
    Purchasing from ookoodook one exemplary of each and every of the books costs this:
    International Priority Large Box $77.50
    Priority Mail International® $117.40
    That's like 37.5% of the books price.

    Purchasing 5 of each, cost this:
    Choose a Shipping option
    International Priority Large Box $77.50
    Priority Mail International® $454.75
    More becomes a problem because "International Priority Large Box" is not available anymore, so only "Priority Mail International" is available and this one does not decrease that much.

    So buying 5 of each, shipping fees would only be some 7.5% of books price.


    I don't really expect them to agree, especially if they never heard of OOTS, but that's worth a try.
    Posting from France
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  14. - Top - End - #194
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    So buying 5 of each, shipping fees would only be some 7.5% of books price.

    I don't really expect them to agree, especially if they never heard of OOTS, but that's worth a try.
    You forget that they need to make profit. They need at least a markup of 30%. Most likely more, since they buy several copies at once, and can't excpet to sell them soon.
    On top of that, they have to pay VAT (5% - 20%), and need to charge you that amount, too. VAT for the full price, which includes book price, shipping, and their markup.

    So don't expect to pay less than 150% of the books price.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Gift Jeraff's Avatar

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    It's just not available in brick and mortar stores. And if I recall, there was talk about it being a Kickstarter exclusive at first, so it even being sold by Ookoodook at all is already more than I would have expected. I'm afraid you'll have to order that one if you want it.
    SS&DT has nothing to do with the Kickstarter. The reason it is rare is because it had a limited print run.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    It's not as simple as buying more. The more you buy, the more money you're tying up in stock. Money you won't get back until it sells, if it ever does. And a lot of people are going to refuse to purchase it under the idea that you're price gouging them, because the MSRP written on the book is a fraction of what you're charging.

    It doesn't mean nobody will ever stock it, it just means that stocking it is a much higher risk than any other book, and book stores generally try to stock things that sell quickly at high profit margins.

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    SS&DT has nothing to do with the Kickstarter. The reason it is rare is because it had a limited print run.
    Indeed. Ookoodook has a certain amount of it in stock, and once that amount is gone, it's gone. There will never be another print run of SS&DT.
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Joerg's Avatar

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    It is unequal, but it's unequal in ways that I can't fix. I can't change the USPS shipping rates to Europe which are utterly ludicrous. I can't ask Ookoodook to open a warehouse in Europe because they are a three-person company that is struggling to pay their existing warehouse rent, and even if they could manage that it wouldn't help for customers in, say, Australia. The price of the book itself is the same for everyone, and it's out of my control that the worldwide shipping network works the way it works.
    What about using Amazon for the logistics (warehouse / distribution)? That option seems to have become quite popular with small Chinese companies in Europe lately. Shipping many books in bulk to Amazon is probably much cheaper than shipping them individually to the end customers. I don't know the actual conditions though; it probably works only if you sell more than a certain number of books and I have no idea what that number is and how many books you actually sell in Europe.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joerg View Post
    What about using Amazon for the logistics (warehouse / distribution)? That option seems to have become quite popular with small Chinese companies in Europe lately. Shipping many books in bulk to Amazon is probably much cheaper than shipping them individually to the end customers. I don't know the actual conditions though; it probably works only if you sell more than a certain number of books and I have no idea what that number is and how many books you actually sell in Europe.
    We now know Ookoodook is a small, 3-person company. Betcha ten bucks that Giant has a good business relationship with them by now, and doesn't want to abandom them for Amazon.
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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Haven't been back here on the forums for a few years now, but I purchased both of these as soon as they came out as I've been wanting PDF copies for years now.

    Here's to seeing the rest of the books on PDF as soon as possible.
    Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quild, I'll try to remember to set up a Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales delivery with you before I next see my friend who lives in Paris, which will probably be in August or September 2016. What arrondissements do you live or work in?
    Last edited by Dr. Gamera; 2015-09-18 at 07:33 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gamera View Post
    Quild, I'll try to remember to set up a Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales delivery with you before I next see my friend who lives in Paris, which will probably be in August or September 2016. What arrondissements do you live or work in?
    Eyh that's very nice, looking forward to it. I very recently moved in the 20th and work more in the middle of Paris in the ninth. It's quite easy to move in Paris anyway, it's a small town!

    Couldn't go to my comic shop yesterday, but I'm also checking if some friends wants to order some books. Let's keep in touch! Thanks anyway!
    Posting from France
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  23. - Top - End - #203
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    We now know Ookoodook is a small, 3-person company. Betcha ten bucks that Giant has a good business relationship with them by now, and doesn't want to abandom them for Amazon.
    If you look on their website, it appears their business pretty much consists of:

    1) Board games
    2) OOTS stuff
    3) stuff from other webcomics.

    Since OOTS is seemingly such a huge part of their business, I'd guess you're right.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Ookoodook is a collaboration between GitP and APE Games.
    THE SCRYING EYE AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    elan: dad plz dont kill roy
    tarquin: ok
    Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for #917.

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Joerg's Avatar

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    We now know Ookoodook is a small, 3-person company. Betcha ten bucks that Giant has a good business relationship with them by now, and doesn't want to abandom them for Amazon.
    I think you misunderstand. The suggestion is that Ookoodook uses Amazon for the logistics, to sell the books (and perhaps other products, too) in Europe. Such products are usually marked in the Amazon pages with something like "Sold by XY and Fulfilled by Amazon".
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Woot! the print versions are difficult to come by here, so this is brilliant news, just purchased my copies :)

  27. - Top - End - #207
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Ookoodook is a collaboration between GitP and APE Games.
    Ahhh that explains a lot

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    It's more accurate to say that Ookoodook only exists because I asked my friends at APE Games if they wanted to handle the direct sales of my products, and they responded by setting up a new company. I don't have any formal role in Ookoodook's management.

    That said, this is a topic that seems very much not the topic of the PDFs that I am selling through Gumroad, which is what I asked everyone to stick to, please.
    Rich Burlew


  29. - Top - End - #209
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    Thank you for making these available in PDF versions! I would prefer the paperbacks, but finances aren't what they used to be unfortunately.

    I tried searching the thread, but didn't seen a definitive answer...if Snips Snails and Dragon Tales is an Ookoodook exclusive, does that mean that book will not be coming out as a PDF? I'd like to just get these as they come out, but if SS & DT will be out of print soon and no PDF is coming I'd like to know so I can budget to buy it as soon as possible.

    As for new content and PDF vs physical prints... I'd think that this has been something that other comic publishers have been dealing with for some time now, and certainly so have book publishers. I would think there would be some standard formulas by now to calculate the effect of digital sales on physical sales, even for comics, and even for online comics.

    Personally, I would like both options to choose from when new books come out and like the "buy a physical copy get the digital for a significant discount" option the most though I see that it is unlikely to happen.

    Alternatively, you could just continue to let the PDF versions come out much later than the physical copies. I mean, in a lot of ways, the main part is already online (not sure how things like the prequels work), so having to wait a year or two for PDF versions so as to not cannibalize the physical copy sales makes sense to me.

    I'm a fan, I'll take what I can get, but I like flexible options if I can get them.

    And since I don't post here a lot, I'd just like to say many thanks for the years of enjoyment from reading your work. As anxious as I am to get to the end of the story, I really don't want to see it end. I like these characters too much. Fantastic work!

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Digital PDF versions of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, On the Origin of PCs now on sale!

    I am a lurker, but I felt that I must register so that I can say:

    THANK YOU!

    for producing these in pdf format. I am incredibly hungry to buy the rest, and I am delighted that I don't have to break the bank in order to finally give you some money to thank you for the hours of delight you have provided me in your creation of OotS.

    I hope that we will eventually be able to buy the entire catalogue in this format, and that you are able to buy yourself some big shiny things as a result.

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