[3.P] Mythos "Do you know what we could be together? We could be perfect!"

[TraceChaos]

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Mythos Discussion Thread II

"Quote about the class" ~Source of the quote

The Eno̱ménos

There are tales, myths, stories, legends, and historically chronicled events in cultures everywhere of beings - be they artificial, organic, living, or undead - that in some way bond to, fuse with, or enter into another being. Some of these beings are parasitic, doing nothing but burning through their host and discarding them after having achieved their own ends. Other such beings are beneficial and pleasant in nature, helping and healing their host, and working with them for the goals of the host and themselves. Others mix detriment and beneficial abilities.

All of these creatures, and tales of creatures, are because of the original 'parasite', and 'symbiote'. This original being, this Titan, had no name, and still has not been coherently named. Its story changed, gaining and losing elements repeatedly, as it moved from one host to another. It added to and pulled away from the stories of other titans as it saw fit for untold time.

When the Lawgivers came, the first gods came, when the world was made orderly, it even took some of them as hosts. It left shards of itself, traces of its presence, in almost every being in almost every STATE of being in its time. It tasted as many concepts, ideas, and stories as it could, and let the other beings, be they god, Lawgiver, or other Titan, taste of its narrative, its story. It learned rage, brutality and such from the Monster, it learned to forge weapons from itself from the crafter of the First Weapon, and it learned thought from others. It learned both selfishness and selflessness, and chose to use many ideas for itself.

Like the others, it was bound away, spread into the very cogwork of the Great Wheel. And there are those who are born, created, crafted, or simply congeal into being that share its qualities.

Hit Die: d10
Skill Points: 6 + Intelligence Modifier
Class Skills: Acrobatics(Tumble, Jump), Bluff, (Concentration), Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (All, taken individually), Perception (Listen, Spot, Search), Perform, Sense Motive, Linguistics (Speak Language), Stealth (Hide, Move Silently), Spellcraft
Proficiencies: The Eno̱ménos is not proficient in any weapons or armor, save for those that it generates from it (or its hosts) form.

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	Mythos	Excellencies
1st	+1	+2	+2	+2	Parasite's Mythos, Mythos Known, Exceptional Mythos, Improved Excellence, Parasitic Body, Symbiotic	+2	+1
2nd	+2	+3	+3	+3		+0	+1
3rd	+3	+3	+3	+3		+1	+0
4th	+4	+4	+4	+4		+0	+1
5th	+5	+4	+4	+4		+1	+0
6th	+6/+1	+5	+5	+5		+0	+1
7th	+7/+2	+5	+5	+5	Fantastic Mythos	+1	+1
8th	+8/+3	+6	+6	+6		+0	+1
9th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+6		+1	+0
10th	+10/+5	+7	+7	+7		+0	+1
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+7	+7		+1	+0
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+8	+8		+0	+1
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+8	+8	Legendary Mythos	+1	+1
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+9	+9		+0	+1
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+9	+9		+1	+0
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+10	+10		+0	+1
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+10	+10		+1	+0
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+11	+11		+0	+1
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+11	+11	Exalted Mythos	+1	+1
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+12	+12		+1	+1

Parasite's Mythos: A Eno̱ménos' power is expressed in terms of one or more "Mythos", the building blocks of the legend that they are, and the stories that they have told and will tell. While any given Mythos varies from the rest, they share some similar traits. They are always Extraordinary abilities, and when they reference a difficulty class for an imposed saving throw, that saving throw is always calculated as (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier, unless otherwise stated). When a Mythos references a "level" that is not clearly defined in some other way, such as "character level", it refers to "class level" as in the number of levels one has in the Eno̱ménos class. When a Mythos references "allies", it specifically does not refer to the Eno̱ménos using it. When a Mythos grants a feat as a bonus feat, it is regardless of whether the character meets the prerequisites for that feat (unless otherwise stated), and if the character already possesses that feat (in some permanent fashion - via the normal allotment gained by leveling up, or through another Mythos, and so on, but not those gained temporarily, such as via a "Heroics" spell), they must replace the prior instance of that feat with another feat that they qualify for.

Every Mythos has a Tier. The Tier of a Mythos ranges from 1 to 4, typically referred to as Exceptional, Fantastic, Legendary, and Exalted.

Some Mythos, in addition to their initial stated effect, have Basic and Advanced manifestations. When a Eno̱ménos gains access to a Mythos with a list of Basic manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit immediately as well. This choice may not be changed later. When a Eno̱ménos gains access to a Mythos with a list of Advanced manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit upon achieving their next level of Eno̱ménos. This choice may be changed at any point before receiving the chosen manifestation itself, but not after (choosing beforehand is just an easy way to mark it down on your character sheet so you don't forget that you'll be getting something later).

Mythos Known: A 1st level Eno̱ménos begins play with two Exceptional Mythos that he qualifies for. At higher levels, he gains additional Mythos as noted on the Eno̱ménos class table.

A Eno̱ménos also has the ability to learn more Mythos, above the ones automatically allotted to him by leveling up, by [insert description here]. (Describe specifics of gaining Mythos Points)

(Optional extra way to gain Mythos Points)

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, a Eno̱ménos may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

For half the listed price for a given Tier, a Eno̱ménos may learn a Basic or Advanced manifestation of a Mythos they already know of that Tier.

Learning Mythos above the standard amount requires astounding, nearly single-minded devotion to the story of the Eno̱ménos. One may only utilize this ability while more than half of his effective character level (ECL) is devoted to levels in the Eno̱ménos class.

Note for Pathfinder players: Due to Pathfinder doing away with burning XP, increase the number of Mythos Points required to gain a mythos by the number of XP listed, while doing away with the XP cost.

Improved Excellence: As denoted on their class table, a Eno̱ménos gains a certain number of abilities known as "Excellencies". These tend to be more general, generic, and passive than a Mythos, but are useful nonetheless, and are drawn from their own separate list, unsegregated by Tiers. Like a Mythos, a Eno̱ménos may learn more Excellencies above their allotted amount. Each one costs 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp, plus an additional 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp for each time a new Excellency is innovated beyond the first. (So, 2,000mp and 200xp for the second, 3,000mp and 300xp for the third, etc.)

As above, do away with the XP cost and increase the mythos point cost if using in Pathfinder, or your DM has otherwise done away with XP expenditure.

Parasitic Body: This class may only be taken by a 1st level character. They do not choose a race. Instead, they are an Ooze. Physically, they may pick any color or combination of colors, as well as a general texture and similar - they are Medium in size.

A Eno̱ménos' type is 'Ooze'. Unlike a normal Ooze, they do not automatically gain Immunity to poisons, Immunity to Paralysis, Immunity to Stunning, Immunity to Mind-Affecting Effects, Immunity to sneak attacks and precision based damage, or Blindsight. Instead, they gain Light Fortification (25% chance to ignore sneak attacks and precision-based damage), and Blindsense out to 5ft/level. In addition, instead of eating a Eno̱ménos must take a host for at least one day out of the week, or begin starving. (See below for information on taking a host)

Symbiotic: As a full-round action, the Eno̱ménos may move to engulf a creature and bond to it, making the other creature its host. Unwilling creatures may make a reflex or fortitude save to resist. The Eno̱ménos may make even creatures without a constitution score their host, treating them as having 10 constitution or using their charisma modifier if they use it to calculate hit points and fortitude saves. The exception are incorporeal undead, corporeal undead with no flesh or that rot after being reanimated, and Constructs (Though not Living Constructs, or creatures with the Half Construct template).

Once a creature is made the host of a Eno̱ménos, a number of benefits are conferred to both creatures.

• First, the Eno̱ménos gains the ability to in a limited way, communicate with its host - they effectively have an Empathic Bond, allowing them to convey general ideas and emotions to one another wordlessly.
• The host gains a number of temporary hit point equal to 3Xthe Eno̱ménos' Class Level. This increases to 5X class level when the Eno̱ménos gains access to Legendary Mythos. These temporary hit points are actually an amount of fortification granted by the physical bonding to the Eno̱ménos, and are simultaneously drained from the Eno̱ménos' normal hit points. The temporary hit points are restored to the host once every five minutes, though the Eno̱ménos may die if all of its HP is lost this way, and may not grant more temporary Hit Points to its host than it has in current HP.
• Any healing applied to either the Host or the Eno̱ménos applies to both creatures, even if one or the other is unable to be healed by the energy type being used. For example, an Eno̱ménos using a Vampire as their host is targeted with a Cure Light Wounds spell, and healed by 6 HP. Instead of being injured by the positive energy, as normal, the vampire is healed because the Eno̱ménos was targeted and healed by the effect. However, this does not prevent either creature from being harmed if directly targeted by an energy type that would normally damage them.
• The Eno̱ménos gains nutrition from the host, in some form or another.

[TraceChaos]

Exceptional Mythos

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Armored Extension-of-Self
Prerequisite: -
The Eno̱ménos gains the ability to harden its 'body'. Their resistance to critical hits and precision damage increase to 50%, and gain an Armor bonus to Armor Class equal to 1/2 their class level (minimum 1) that also applies to their host. This armor bonus does not apply if the host is wearing armor already, and the Eno̱ménos is considered to take up the hosts Armor equipment slot, overwriting the actual armor value of any worn armor (Though not any enhancement bonuses). They have no ACP or Maximum Dexterity Bonus.
Upon attaining a Legendary Mythos the Eno̱ménos gains full immunity to critical hits and precision-based damage.

Matter-Mending Parasite Process
Prerequisite: -
The Eno̱ménos gains fast healing equal to 1/4 their class level (Minimum 1). This fast healing is also granted to their host.

Mind-to-Mind Communication Method
Prerequisite: -
The origin of your story did more than latch onto others and share their narrative blindly - it communicated, quite clearly, with those that it would make its host for however long.

You gain a limited form of telepathy - any in physical contact with you, you may speak telepathically with (Obviously including your host). As an added bonus, any creature you have made your host, you may keep contacting telepathically for up to a day, and benefits from your empathic link with it for up to one week, with a range of up to one mile. These times increase to a week for the telepathy and a month for the empathic link once you gain access to a Legendary Mythos.

Basic

Mind-sharing Telepathic Bond: Your mind and that of your host are capable of being closely bonded together. After spending 24 total hours bonded to a host, you gain knowledge of every important fact about them and about the things they have done, planned, or experienced. In addition, you and your host may use any skill that either of you have trained freely, and for any skill check, ability check, or saving throw, you may use the better of either creatures mental ability score. Finally, your minds are linked in such a way as to fortify them; whenever you or your host are subject to a saving throw from a mind-affecting effect, you gain a +1 bonus to the save, which increases to +4 once you gain a Legendary Mythos.

Dominating Mind: You may, at any time after bonding to a host, force them to make a will saving throw (That does not benefit from the effects of Mind-sharing Telepathic Bond if you possess it) or be subjegated to your will for 24 hours - they are incapable of controlling their body, leaving you in full control. This is not a mind-affecting effect.

Weapons Forged from Body-and-Instinct
Prerequisite: -
The Eno̱ménos contains minor traces of many mythic and godly concepts - most notably being those of combat and weapons - and may tap into those to weaponize itself and its host. The Eno̱ménos gains the ability to, as a move action, manifest any number of its weapons which count as both natural and manufactured. Initially, it is only a pair of Primary Claw attacks. At level four, this includes a bite. At level Seven and every five levels thereafter, it gains a secondary Tentacle attack. The damage of these attacks are the normal damage for creatures of the appropriate size.

These natural weapons may be manifested either directly by the Eno̱ménos, or onto their host when on one.

At Sixth level the Eno̱ménos may choose to instead generate more 'traditional' weapons in place of those listed above. It may begin choosing any singular damage type for the claw attacks to deal any one type of damage. Upon gaining tentacle attacks, the same may be done. Only the bite cannot be changed. (Their damage dice remain unchanged).

[TraceChaos]

Reserved for Fantastic Mythos.

[TraceChaos]

Reserved for Legendary Mythos

[TraceChaos]

Reserved for Exalted Mythos.

[TraceChaos]

Reserved for Excellencies.

[EdroGrimshell]

Yes, Yes, Yes, all the Yes! I love it!

Seriously, I've been trying to get a GM to let me play a Symbiont for a long time now, never works out. Closest I've ever come was a kreikiri that made a symbiont that used a homebrew Body Sculpter PrC I made.

EDIT: Just talking to some friends on Skype about what would happen if you took Syntrofos and Eno̱ménos (such as through mythic fusion or gestalt), and Crona and Ragnarok from Soul Eater were brought up. Might be a good basis for some more esoteric mythos. Ragnarok was Crona's blood, and formed some of it into a sword, so that's an idea.

[TraceChaos]

Yes, Yes, Yes, all the Yes! I love it!

Glad you like the idea!

EDIT: Just talking to some friends on Skype about what would happen if you took Syntrofos and Eno̱ménos (such as through mythic fusion or gestalt), and Crona and Ragnarok from Soul Eater were brought up. Might be a good basis for some more esoteric mythos. Ragnarok was Crona's blood, and formed some of it into a sword, so that's an idea.

I actually intend to make it so that it can add DR to the host in some way, even whne not acting as armor, make an Excellency that lets it hide, disguise itself as clothes and similar, and an Exceptional Mythos that lets it form weapons (Natural and 'manufactured', counting as both either way for spells and effects) out of itself. So nothing's to stop you from, say, riding someone, hiding inside them, and allowing them to suddenly be holding a sword made of your constituent material.

As a separate note, I'm trying to work out a telepathy-granting mythos (For full telepathic contact between current and recent hosts and yourself), that will have manifestationsf or sharing mental ability scores and skills, and a manifestation for being able to forcibly manipulate or even outright take control over your host.

I could use help coming up with names for names of Mythos and Excellencies as a general rule, and am open to any suggestions for mythos you would like to see or have incorporated into it.

Big question! How well do you think the host-bonding that I posted works/would work in a game? This is my... well, 'fourth' homebrew ever, though since I intend to finish it I plan to have it listed as the second completed homebrew ever. I need as much help with this as I can manage.

Edit; What Mythos-tier would you say that a mythos that grants regeneration equal to 1/4 Class Level and is bypassed by two things (Usually lements, but they're chosen by the player with GM permission) should be? I'm thinking fantastic, but I'm not 100% certain.

Also trying to think how to add in a mythos or excellency that makes you not need to breathe and able to survive in extreme environments (Space or deep underwater) with no ill effects, and pass that to your host. But I have no clue what else to add to make it mythos-worthy, y'know?

[Yasahiro]

Hm, I could supply ideas for more mythos...

You could for example utilize Stands from Jojo Bizzare Adventure. They are essentially a Shadow Sibling that gets damaged if you do, and vice versa, with a huge variety of powers.

[EdroGrimshell]

Well, since you asked for help, let's start by getting this back on the front page with a note saying it has been updated.

I do have to ask: Why Ooze? Most symbionts are aberrations with a few undead ones.

On the bonding, it should be a willing or helpless host, or be more effective against an unaware host.

A basic ability might be to cause the empathic link to be a bit more subtle, allow the symbiont to project its own emotions onto the host as if they were the hosts own. I actually have a basis for this in my Corpse PrC's Psionic Source, it allows for the use of various emotion themed abilities onto the host (calm emotions, rage, hideous laughter, etc.) which seems like it'd be a good fit here.

The Temporary Hit Points, it may be a good idea to allow the enomenos to choose to grant them or have them be used first, so it can have a bit of a "I don't want to die here!" kind of deal. Less of a problem once they get fast healing, but still a concern. I may even have this as a Mythos or Excellency in place of a base ability. Bonding alone should only grant some minor benefits, the Narrative of the Enomenos is that of enhancement and empowerment, and should be a focus of the Mythos and Excellencies, IMO.

I'd actually remove the healing clause and apply it as an excellency. For much the same reasons as above.

Now the feeding, that needs a mechanical point. Even if it's a "Pick One" and has such options as "You deal 1 point of ability damage to your host each morning (equalizing to a 1 point loss to that point until the symbiont is removed)" or "your host has to eat and drink twice as much to not starve," and you should have a clause that if the host begins to starve you either cannibalize their body (accelerating their starvation) or cease to gain nutrients from them (effectively cutting off your own food supply).

Onto the Mythos!

Armored Extension-of-Self
Okay, hardness shouldn't be here. The natural attacks and weapons from the symbiont should have its DR applied to them in place of hardness and damage done to the natural attacks should damage the symbiont itself. Basic Manifestations could make it so the weapons and the like be made from excess materials, giving them a separate HP Pool. Another, possibly advanced, could harden the weapons affected by the basic manifestation to turn the DR to Hardness. Pretty simple and easy to use, as well as easy to build on.

Matter-Mending Parasite Process
Fast Healing, while in line with existing mythos of this tier, seems like having it yourself and giving it to your host is a bit much, especially when your own HP total can act as a buffer to your host. I'd make this accelerate your host's natural healing and leeching that healing for yourself to a degree, then expand on it with manifestations or a scaling effect.

Mind-to-Mind Communication Method
I'd start this one as purely telepathic communication with your host then scale up a little. You might consider a manifestation that allows you to weaken your host's will over time so it's easier to gain control, but using your own will save for other effects (whether this is on this mythos or another is irrelevant), possibly even being able to deal Wis damage/burn/drain over time so you can gain some permanent control of your host until you leave them or are forcibly removed from an outside source.

Weapons Forged from Body-and-Instinct
The fluff on this one is weird, however, I'm not here to deal with the fluff, but the mechanics. First off, this should start by granting your host your Base Attack Bonus, if yours is higher of course, a bit like the ability of the Syntrofos, as well as augmenting the host's unarmed abilities with Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike while you're attached to the host. Natural Attacks can probably come in as basic and advanced manifestations.

Other Mythos
Body Sculpting needs to be a thing here, the ability to (semi-)permanently augment a host by remaining bonded to them for extended periods of time. This can be as simple as giving skill bonuses over time to giving special abilities of your previous hosts to your current host.

Some measure of shapeshifting can probably be included here as well.

[TraceChaos]

I like the feedback from Grimshell.

I'm considering acutally working ont his again, be it in the form of a class again or a supplement, taking inspiration from Xefas' own symbiote mythos (Which was admittedly only a single mythos).

I'm just kind of... defeatist about homebrewing stuff. I always feel like my stuff won't be all that good.

[Necroticplague]

I'm just kind of... defeatist about homebrewing stuff. I always feel like my stuff won't be all that good.

My own 2 coppers:

[Gideon Falcon]

Oh my word, that comic is perfect.

[dethkruzer]

I'd say this quite well sums up my thoughts as well. I don't really care if the text is less witty and/or colorful than say, Xefas' works(not commentary on the class by the way, I've not yet taken the time to properly read through everything in detail), but I see it's a mythos class, and from an skimming of the text, I see an interesting and fresh idea. And these two components of mythos and interesting idea usually makes me go: yes please.