General Exalted Discussion XVII: Edition of Cascading Years

[Recaiden]

Except there's also this part right in the middle:

That clearly describes people actively joining your ranks as a direct result of using the Charm.

The charm pretty clearly says that if you don't have enough soldiers you just conjure some more out of thin air.

In its fluff, which of course means nothing.

[golentan]

Maybe it guarantees that a single wandering heroic mortal will flock to you, who fights with the strength of 10/100 men?

One of my players tried to justify that charm as building him an army in the millions in the middle of an archipelago with combined half a million people. I told him it gives him an effective size boost for one battle, not an actual size boost or a permanent increase in his number of soldiers.

Keyword: Shenanigan no.

[Lord Raziere]

Simple.

There are more troops for as long as the charm's duration lasts.

Then when it runs out, they are gone as if they were never there.

No one comments on this, because Exalts breaking reality a little and causing exceptions to the rules and miracles like troops appearing there one moment then gone the next because the pattern spiders find it awesome, is pretty much Mercuryday for Creation.

[Sith_Happens]

Not necessarily. Rallying to one person is not the same thing as rallying to that person from another country.

That is my question. If you're doing your strategic planning near a populated area then it's easy enough to say that the requisite number of fighters are near enough to hear that there's a battle going down and decide they want in on the action. If you're at the edge of Creation a week's journey from the nearest settlement, though, then what?

In its fluff, which of course means nothing.

Except that the specific clause I quoted describes the soldiers flocking to your banner after the words "This Charm supplements the strategic maneuver roll," in a manner and context that seem to imply that that's part of how the roll is supplemented.

One of my players tried to justify that charm as building him an army in the millions in the middle of an archipelago with combined half a million people. I told him it gives him an effective size boost for one battle, not an actual size boost or a permanent increase in his number of soldiers.

I'm not sure what that player was trying to pull seeing as "millions" is orders of magnitude more than +1 size. Like, +1 battle group size caps out at around 600-700 more soldiers.

[HalfTangible]

That is my question. If you're doing your strategic planning near a populated area

You misunderstand me; I'm saying that nothing about the quote you gave said that it gives you additional troops. You can rally to someone on a battlefield, or around your commander in an already-formed army. If people CAN be drawn to you, then they will, but it could also be taken as artsy metaphor.

[Sith_Happens]

You misunderstand me; I'm saying that nothing about the quote you gave said that it gives you additional troops. You can rally to someone on a battlefield, or around your commander in an already-formed army. If people CAN be drawn to you, then they will, but it could also be taken as artsy metaphor.

So you're saying it's either or depending on what makes sense at the time?

[HalfTangible]

So you're saying it's either or depending on what makes sense at the time?

And what the ST/player thinks, basically.

[TheCountAlucard]

What HT said - the fact of the matter is that ad-hoc player/ST calls are (and have always been) unavoidable (and, in fact, necessary). It's one of the reasons we use humans to run the game instead of Playstations - a human running the game can improvise beyond, "Okay, you somehow got through my invisible barrier/impassable chest-high wall, so you noclip through the floor until you fall to your death."

So yes, sometimes the sheer brilliance of a Lawgiver's strategy will turn bystanders into fighters; other times, it will give five men advantage enough to fight like ten; perhaps sometimes, even the gods of field and stream will lend their aid. It's context-sensitive.

[Sith_Happens]

Speaking of War Charms, I feel like there should be one that lets you use Wits instead of Intelligence on Strategic Maneuver rolls. Anyone want to help me balance it?

[golentan]

I'm not sure what that player was trying to pull seeing as "millions" is orders of magnitude more than +1 size. Like, +1 battle group size caps out at around 600-700 more soldiers.

He wanted to just keep using it every scene he maneuvered with his army until he had literal millions.

[HalfTangible]

He wanted to just keep using it every scene he maneuvered with his army until he had literal millions.

Isn't this supposed to be the point where the ST drops one of the Celestials on top of you?

Or at least kicks you in the teeth?

[Sith_Happens]

He wanted to just keep using it every scene he maneuvered with his army until he had literal millions.

That is quite impossible when size hard-caps at 5. Past that you start having more battle groups instead of bigger ones which War God Descendent doesn't help with. Well, I guess technically you could recruit a new size 1 group, WGD it up to size 5, and repeat, but that averages to a linear growth rate of ~200 soldiers per battle which will basically never get you anywhere near a million.

[golentan]

Isn't this supposed to be the point where the ST drops one of the Celestials on top of you?

Or at least kicks you in the teeth?

Yes. I penalize such munchkinry in my games. The agreement I usually make is "you do not try to break my setting, I will not break your character." Not as in "You are immune to death" but as in "I will not fiat you into helplessness."

That is quite impossible when size hard-caps at 5. Past that you start having more battle groups instead of bigger ones which War God Descendent doesn't help with. Well, I guess technically you could recruit a new size 1 group, WGD it up to size 5, and repeat, but that averages to a linear growth rate of ~200 soldiers per battle which will basically never get you anywhere near a million.

Have you... Never played with a would be munchkin before? Have you never had to rein one in?

This is a player who in a Traveller campaign I ran when I said "you are hard capped at 10 terms even if you use anagathics to delay aging so as not to overshadow the new players" tried to argue that I had said "10 terms of the drifter career."

Players like that can be fun at the table until they hit the point where they are in flagrant violation of the rules or spirit of the game, in part because they tend to come up with... unconventional solutions to problems which result in much excitement and unexpected stories, but eventually you always have to say "No, you don't get to do this, I don't care what the book seems to imply or what workaround you have developed, this action is verboten, this character is nerfed, you cannot do this."

[Sith_Happens]

Have you... Never played with a would be munchkin before? Have you never had to rein one in?

Not the kind who deliberately pretends that the rules say something they obviously don't, no.

[SaurOps]

Isn't this supposed to be the point where the ST drops one of the Celestials on top of you?

Or at least kicks you in the teeth?

"An Abyssal uses Glorious Carnage Typhoon. You no longer have an army to bolster that will come to you. The Abyssal, however, does have one now, and they have perfect morale..."

[Weimann]

Hey! On the official Exalted forums, there's been a kind of unofficial survey posted. It's just an amateur census of the Exalted fanbase out of sheer curiosity. If you feel like taking it, here's a link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/F8QPW5Y

[golentan]

So, apart from the small investment cost (one artifact and 2 charms), is there any downside to getting a Belt of Shadow Walking and Spirit Cutting Attack and chumping anyone who can't strike immaterial foes?

[SaurOps]

So, apart from the small investment cost (one artifact and 2 charms), is there any downside to getting a Belt of Shadow Walking and Spirit Cutting Attack and chumping anyone who can't strike immaterial foes?

It wouldn't be long before you met one of those; it describes every Immaculate martial artist Dragon-Blooded, a notable quantity of non-Immaculate Dragon-Blooded (Ghost-Fire Blade is even integrated right into Melee), and an awful lot of your fellow Celestials. That aside, there's also blackmail to coerce the character to either not do it or to do it only to people the blackmailer wants out of the way.

[golentan]

It wouldn't be long before you met one of those; it describes every Immaculate martial artist Dragon-Blooded, a notable quantity of non-Immaculate Dragon-Blooded (Ghost-Fire Blade is even integrated right into Melee), and an awful lot of your fellow Celestials. That aside, there's also blackmail to coerce the character to either not do it or to do it only to people the blackmailer wants out of the way.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's a "stop other exalted" combo, but I'm just imagining the terror of a living shadow cutting its way through people with impunity and immune to any physical harm. It doesn't make a non-combat character viable against combat characters, but it does make them viable against lesser foes.

[TheCountAlucard]

You also wouldn't be immune to already-immaterial spirits.

[Kobold-Bard]

Custom Charm backers have the book, including a bunch of charms Morke wrote just because he wanted to write them.

I'm pretty happy with my charm, but I was nowhere near as creative as some people.

[Sith_Happens]

Any word on when it'll be for general sale?

[Kobold-Bard]

Any word on when it'll be for general sale?

There's an errata thread on the OP forum and the first post was Here's an error that I'd like to see corrected: My Charm doesn't appear in the pdf. , so it might be a little while while they fix all the mistakes.

[Doran]

Custom Charm backers have the book, including a bunch of charms Morke wrote just because he wanted to write them.

I'm pretty happy with my charm, but I was nowhere near as creative as some people.

Also pretty happy with my charm ("Honor Instilling Mantra"), basically allowing you to write a charter for your organisation giving members optional intimacies. I think it can also be combined with liguistics charms like letter within a letter technique, allowing secret organisations to communicate openly.

Plus persist after death allows legacy organisations from your past character to show up, plus stopping your organisation from collapsing immediately if you die or appear to do so.

[Kobold-Bard]

Also pretty happy with my charm ("Honor Instilling Mantra"), basically allowing you to write a charter for your organisation giving members optional intimacies. I think it can also be combined with liguistics charms like letter within a letter technique, allowing secret organisations to communicate openly.

Plus persist after death allows legacy organisations from your past character to show up, plus stopping your organisation from collapsing immediately if you die or appear to do so.

I wish I could play a Bureaucracy character, the charms always look really interesting.

Spoiler: Backer Book Front Cover Art

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[golentan]

Speaking of custom charms, I was disappointed by the lack of capstones in one of my current favorite trees and decided to up the cool factor of my ride-focused solar. Does this look like an acceptable charm to you folks? If not, what edits to balance it would you suggest?

Spoiler

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Invincible God-Rider
Cost: - Mins: Ride 5, Essence 4
Prerequisites: Phantom Steed
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent

The solars of old were not content with mortal beasts of burden. The godkings of the first age rode into the teeth of the storm on creatures of essence and fury, taming the elements and the heavens to their lash. This charm permanently upgrades its prerequisite, giving the Phantom Steed access to an essence pool of (Solar’s Ride x 5m) and a single spirit charm with minimum essence of no more than (Solar’s essence/2, round up) subject to storyteller’s approval. it also allows the solar to purchase additional charms, supernatural merits, and the like for her phantom steed using her own experience points. Such a godbeast is obviously no natural creature, and cannot be mistaken for one, taking on visual elements appropriate to its own charms, merits, and its master’s nature.

(The character I wrote this for has wound up becoming basically Phantom Ganon from Ocarina of Time in terms of style).

[Sith_Happens]

I can say for sure that the name doesn't fit.

[Rater202]

For the people who got the new charrms-are there any more Familiar Support Charms?

[Sith_Happens]

For the people who got the new charrms-are there any more Familiar Support Charms?

According to this forum post, very yes.

[golentan]

I can say for sure that the name doesn't fit.

It was intended to be read as "An invincible rider of gods."