General Exalted Discussion XVII: Edition of Cascading Years

[HalfTangible]

So what happens if that mortal gets squashed during a warstrider joyride? Do they keep reincarnating into cushy lives for as long as those lives keep ending prematurely at the hands of an irresponsible Solar?



Don't forget the part where it has the exact opposite effect on about 10% of the population, who then go on to become the horrid boogeymen of the entire region.

Spoilers!

[Turalisj]

So, I'm trying to figure out what exactly to buy next for my character... Who is at 796xp. I have 71 unused experience and don't really know where to go from here.....

Spoiler: sheet

Show

Exalt Type: Solar Caste: Night
Languages: Rivertongue (native), Old Realm, Firetongue
Motivation: Pull off a feat of larceny so great and so audacious that Luna
herself pops up, says, "daaaaaaayum" and regrets, however briefly, that
double-exalts aren't a thing
Intimacies: Performing and Dancing (thrill and joy), Bewbs (squishy and bite sized)

Essentials: (12bp)
Essence: 5 | Willpower: 10/10
Personal Pool: 25 | Peripheral Pool: 37 | Committed: 17 Peripheral
Compassion: 3 | Conviction: 3 | Temperance: 1 | Valor: 3

Attributes:
Strength: 5 | Dexterity: 5 | Stamina: 5
Charisma: 1 | Manipulation: 3 | Appearance: 5
Perception: 5 | Intelligence: 5 | Wits: 5

Abilities: (4bp)
[f] Martial Arts: 5
Integrity: 5 | [f] Performance: 5 | [f] Resistance: 5 | Presence: 1
[f] Lore: 3 | [f] Investigation: 1
[c] Athletics: 5 | [c] Awareness: 5 | [c]Dodge: 5 | [c] Larceny: 5 | [c] Stealth: 5
Linguistics: 2 | Socialize: 2
Specialties: Martial Arts: +2 Solar Hero Weapons, Dodge: +2 Armored

Charms:

Martial Arts: Fists of Iron Technique, Sledgehammer Fist Punch,
Dragon Coil Technique, Solar Hero Form, 1st Martial Arts Excellency,
Heaven Thunder Hammer, Crashing Wave Throw, Ox-Stunning Blow,
Hammer On Iron Technique, Infinite Martial Arts Mastery, Dome Shattering Smite,
Lightning Strikes Twice, Solar Hero Supremacy

Integrity: Integrity-Protecting Prana, Staring at the Sun

Performance: First Performance Excellency, Phantom-Conjuring Performance

Resistance: Durability of Oak, Spirit Strenthens the Skin, Iron Skin Concentration
Adamant Skin Technique, Ox-Body Technique x5 (-1x5, -2x10), Infinite Essence Reinforcement x5,
Soul Fire Resurgence

Athletics: Graceful Crane Stance, Monkey Leap Technique, 1st Athletics Excellency, Lightning
Speed, Spider-Foot Style, Unparalleled Acumen Method, Increasing Strength Exercise,
God-Temple Body, Divine Transcendence of Athletics, Godspeed Steps, Speed of Light Approach

Awareness: 1st Awareness Excellency, Keen Sight Technique, Unsurpassed Sight Discipline

Dodge: Shadow over Water, Reflexive Sidestep Technique, Flow Like Blood,
Seven Shadow Evasion, Reed in the Wind

Larceny: Flawless Pickpocketing Technique, 1st Larceny Excellency, Flawless Impenetrable
Disguise, Perfect Mirror, Flawless Pickpocketing Technique, Stealing From Plain Sight,
Reversal of Fortune, King of Thieves Spirit

Stealth: 1st Stealth Excellency, Overlooked Presence Method


Backgrounds: (2bp)
Artifact 4: Gloves of the Long Hand | Hearthstone 3: Stone of Resilient Bamboo | Contacts: 5
Artifact 5: Infinite Resplendent Amulet | Or.HS Bracer: 2 | Ori.Chainshirt 1

Stats:
Soak: 34L/32B
Natural: 20L/20B
Hardness: 5L/5B (Natural)
Dodge MDV: 10
Dodge DV: 9
Move/Dash: 10/16
Join Battle: 10
Health: -0x1, -1x6, -2x12, -4x1, Incapx1, Dyingx5

Gloves (Strike): Speed 5, Accuracy 16. Damage 12B/2, Defense 9, Rate 3, Tags: M, O
Gloves (Clinch): Speed 7, Accuracy 16, Damage 11B/2, Defense —, Rate 2, Tags: C, M, O, P

More performance is a possible thing. More stealth is a possible thing, as is more awareness. What I don't want to do, is buy more combat charms, because I'm already at the point of having 10 open mana motes during a fight with everything up. Partly, looking at charms that would help me pull off the motivation (however unlikely said motivation might be).

[golentan]

Honestly, if I were playing him I'd grab Phoenix Renewal Tactic and Glory to the Most High since you're already at Integrity 5 Essence 5, allowing you to grab essence 6.

I would then grab "Should the Sun Not Rise," and if possible a homebrew essence 7 Larceny charm which allows you to literally steal charms from other beings with a touch (accessed through Divine Transcendence of Larceny).

Now you must find a way to get into the Jade Pleasure Dome undetected. The unconquered sun is almost certain to have suppressed his temperance while within it, and so will be vulnerable to deleterious effects (he has no other shaping defense!). Using your theft charms, strip him of all his powers (if you snag the power which allows him to instantly cure shapings first he will be unable to recover without aide), but creation is no worse for the wear because, since you have Should The Sun Not Rise and Sol hasn't done anything useful other than enabling the existence of Holy in millennia as best I can tell.

Boom. You have stolen the arbitration of Holy Powers from the unconquered sun. In front of luna, no less.

Motivation complete!

[Necroticplague]

Buy Charisma up to two. Then, Attribute Reallocation (Charisma-> Dex) 4 times (re-buying CHA2 each time except for the last). Good increase to the base pool for a relatively low XP investment.

[Exthalion]

Buy Charisma up to two. Then, Attribute Reallocation (Charisma-> Dex) 4 times (re-buying CHA2 each time except for the last). Good increase to the base pool for a relatively low XP investment.

How exactly do you attribute reallocate? I have never heard of that.

[Necroticplague]

How exactly do you attribute reallocate? I have never heard of that.

It's a mutation. The lowest level of positive ones (pox?). It lowers one stat (and the maximum for it) to increase another (and the maximum for it).

[Sith_Happens]

Now you must find a way to get into the Jade Pleasure Dome undetected.

I'm pretty sure being in there is the part where things have the most chance to go horribly wrong. And by "go horribly wrong" I mean "he looks the wrong way for a microsecond and instantly becomes addicted to watching other people play World of Warcraft Duel Monsters the Games of Divinity.

[HalfTangible]

Honestly, if I were playing him I'd grab Phoenix Renewal Tactic and Glory to the Most High since you're already at Integrity 5 Essence 5, allowing you to grab essence 6.

I would then grab "Should the Sun Not Rise," and if possible a homebrew essence 7 Larceny charm which allows you to literally steal charms from other beings with a touch (accessed through Divine Transcendence of Larceny).

Now you must find a way to get into the Jade Pleasure Dome undetected. The unconquered sun is almost certain to have suppressed his temperance while within it, and so will be vulnerable to deleterious effects (he has no other shaping defense!). Using your theft charms, strip him of all his powers (if you snag the power which allows him to instantly cure shapings first he will be unable to recover without aide), but creation is no worse for the wear because, since you have Should The Sun Not Rise and Sol hasn't done anything useful other than enabling the existence of Holy in millennia as best I can tell.

Boom. You have stolen the arbitration of Holy Powers from the unconquered sun. In front of luna, no less.

Motivation complete!

Luna grabs you by the head and glares into your eyes. Kid, there are two things in this entire multiverse that are too stupid to exist. She then rips your head off. And they're both you.

[Necroticplague]

Luna grabs you by the head and glares into your eyes. Kid, there are two things in this entire multiverse that are too stupid to exist. She then rips your head off. And they're both you.

And this is why Perfect Defences exist.

[Rater202]

Um, nitpick. If you've hypothetically stolen all of Ignis's divines power, as the wording implies,and you're a solar on top of that... Yeah, you're probably strong enough to Bitch slap Luna into a corner and steal her powers before s/he even picks you up.

Then you might as well find the maidens and the Elemental Dragons to get the full set.

[HalfTangible]

And this is why Perfect Defences exist.

Perfect defenses don't work when you're spouting off a joke.

...

Well, I mean, they would. But I'm best pals with this one chick that writes the rules of reality. And all four of her sisters slash colleagues.

Um, nitpick. If you've hypothetically stolen all of Ignis's divines power, as the wording implies,and you're a solar on top of that... Yeah, you're probably strong enough to Bitch slap Luna into a corner and steal her powers before s/he even picks you up.

Then you might as well find the maidens and the Elemental Dragons to get the full set.

Well I got a corpse that says you're wrong.

(I assumed that he hadn't actually stolen that power yet)

[Turalisj]

Looking for something a little less likely to get me killed at this point

I'm thinking just buying up charisma and buying out performance charms followed by stealth charms.

[Lord Raziere]

I am confused as to why it would be desirable to steal the charms of the Unconquered Sun. They only work if your being a perfect paladin after all. and honestly its inferior power compared to realizing your own great primordial legend as a Green Sun Prince/Devil Tiger! less chance of accidentally seeing the Games of Divinity without protection, no 1-7 Incarnae attacking you, and your powers are of your own essence and being instead of being sun paladin stuff. and to steal them at all, you need to be a high essence Solar! and while they might be just as powerful and capable of their own awesome stunts, they just don't have the same style of becoming a transhuman immortal divinity with a bunch of soul-buddies to accompany you.

that and the person is trying to IMPRESS Luna not make her attack him! The Night Caste should try to fool Gaia into coming back to Luna, by tricking Gaia into thinking she has found enlightenment or whatever she is looking for. you know. do something nice for her, in a larcenous way.

[Turalisj]

Solar's don't have much in the exalted transcendence department.

[Lord Raziere]

nevermind the transcendence, focus on tricking Gaia into thinking she has found the thing, the enlightenment whatever, the watchamacallit, if she thinks she finds it, she won't ever leave Luna again! and thus Luna and Gaia will be happy together forever. what, you think you can't con Gaia into enlightenment? Your a Night Caste! even Primordials have something they expect to see, and Gaia is trying to find a thing and she is probably expecting it to look like something, therefore you can fool her by playing on that expectation.

[HalfTangible]

I am confused as to why it would be desirable to steal the charms of the Unconquered Sun. They only work if your being a perfect paladin after all. and honestly its inferior power compared to realizing your own great primordial legend as a Green Sun Prince/Devil Tiger! less chance of accidentally seeing the Games of Divinity without protection, no 1-7 Incarnae attacking you, and your powers are of your own essence and being instead of being sun paladin stuff. and to steal them at all, you need to be a high essence Solar! and while they might be just as powerful and capable of their own awesome stunts, they just don't have the same style of becoming a transhuman immortal divinity with a bunch of soul-buddies to accompany you.

that and the person is trying to IMPRESS Luna not make her attack him! The Night Caste should try to fool Gaia into coming back to Luna, by tricking Gaia into thinking she has found enlightenment or whatever she is looking for. you know. do something nice for her, in a larcenous way.

Bragging rights?

Yeeeeeah... Just because you bring back my lover doesn't mean I'm gonna let you do whatever you want to my best friend, nor his benefits.

[Lord Raziere]

Bragging rights?

Yeeeeeah... Just because you bring back my lover doesn't mean I'm gonna let you do whatever you want to my best friend, nor his benefits.

Who said I was going to steal anything from the Unconquered Sun? bringing her back WAS supposed to be thing by itself that is supposed to impress Luna as an alternative to stealing the Unconquered Sun's powers.

after all, I would consider braving the deepest parts of the Wyld, finding a Primordial of nature and pure elemental might amid endlessly churning chaos, then putting together a con so great as to trick an entire Primordial into thinking they have found what Primordials were searching for before objective time began and succeeding without said Primordial ever finding out, all the while fighting whatever raksha, unshaped or whatever else decides to screw things up and potentially facing the wrath of a Primordial if you fail, all so that you can impress Luna, to be a great epic quest to undertake that nonetheless is still less dangerous than ticking off the Incarnae! why even bother trying to steal from Sol after that? you just did something that no Solar will ever have the opportunity to do again!

[HalfTangible]

Who said I was going to steal anything from the Unconquered Sun? bringing her back WAS supposed to be thing by itself that is supposed to impress Luna as an alternative to stealing the Unconquered Sun's powers.

after all, I would consider braving the deepest parts of the Wyld, finding a Primordial of nature and pure elemental might amid endlessly churning chaos, then putting together a con so great as to trick an entire Primordial into thinking they have found what Primordials were searching for before objective time began and succeeding without said Primordial ever finding out, all the while fighting whatever raksha, unshaped or whatever else decides to screw things up and potentially facing the wrath of a Primordial if you fail, all so that you can impress Luna, to be a great epic quest to undertake that nonetheless is still less dangerous than ticking off the Incarnae! why even bother trying to steal from Sol after that? you just did something that no Solar will ever have the opportunity to do again!

*raises an eyebrow, puts her arms behind her head* You would either have to keep it a secret from me - thus not impressing me, as was the original goal - or trust that I would never tell my lover that she'd been tricked.

[golentan]

I am confused as to why it would be desirable to steal the charms of the Unconquered Sun. They only work if your being a perfect paladin after all. and honestly its inferior power compared to realizing your own great primordial legend as a Green Sun Prince/Devil Tiger! less chance of accidentally seeing the Games of Divinity without protection, no 1-7 Incarnae attacking you, and your powers are of your own essence and being instead of being sun paladin stuff. and to steal them at all, you need to be a high essence Solar! and while they might be just as powerful and capable of their own awesome stunts, they just don't have the same style of becoming a transhuman immortal divinity with a bunch of soul-buddies to accompany you.

that and the person is trying to IMPRESS Luna not make her attack him! The Night Caste should try to fool Gaia into coming back to Luna, by tricking Gaia into thinking she has found enlightenment or whatever she is looking for. you know. do something nice for her, in a larcenous way.

Mostly just to keep him from having them.

I find the incarnae mostly to be not worth the adoration. I mean, the reason the exalted exist is because they didn't want to do their jobs and wanted a turn on the Xbox. And no, I don't feel the Yozis are better.

And the reason for a huge number of in-setting problems are that the Incarnae either don't do their jobs or threaten to do their jobs in a pretty bad way. War against the primordials? Let's declare them and all their souls to be anathema, and result in the creation of Hell and the Underworld, both of which will be existential threats to creation for let's be generous and say the rest of time. Now let's declare human beings who get caught up in the wake of the sucking vortex of the underworld to be Anathema as well, that way no matter how nice an individual ghost or demon may be exalts can abuse the hell out of them. Fair folk living in creation as peacefully as possible? Anathema, burn it with holy fire. Oh, and let's put a back-door into the minds of all the lunar exalted because I don't trust my fellow incarnae who has sat at my right hand for a million generations and regularly defends creation from cosmic horrors. No way I want her chosen to not have an easily abusable mental weakness, but my Solars will obviously be incorruptible, so who needs failsafes?

But then things start going really WRONG and where is he? Hierophant claims to speak for you and orders horrible things done in your name like operation wyldhand? Well, I suppose you COULD tell your chosen not to be jerks, or you could throw a hissy fit and stop talking to the world at all, giving the Hierophant the chance to claim he's the only one you're still talking to and seize even MORE power for MORE horrible things. Great contagion ravaging the majority of living things and even killing gods, well, I know Yu-Shan needs creation to keep existing and creation is washing into nonexistence, but let's just shut the doors and hope they work this out for themselves, I guess we'll find out if we all die! Oh, now the fair folk are returning in never before seen numbers and rampaging across the face of the earth and the vast majority of potential defenders of reality are already dead and the most powerful survivors are locked in here with me, but let's give them another century or two to work things out on their own down there. Somehow they managed! Yay! Hey guys, we're back, and we're reimposing rule of law on the terrestrial gods, you don't hold it against us that we left you out to die, right?

And this is the man we trust with the godspear? Not that we have that much of a choice.

For an incomparable beacon of perfection and alleged good judgement, BOY does he suck at it. Heck, Queen Merela's crowning moment appears to have been sneaking aboard the Daystar and telling him how much he sucked, to the point he said "You're pretty much right, hey, you should be in charge." The same Merela who believed that problems between solars were best solved by gladiatorial combat to the death.

So. Not killing him or anything, but I'd feel a lot safer if the fate of the world and essential tools for negotiations with foreign powers like the Yozis were not in the dubious hands of a man whose chief moment of political achievement appears to be rejecting surrender terms cruelly enough to cause the Principle of Hierarchy, a being who is incapable of violating those social structures to which she has bound herself and who was the only being who seems to have comparably potent virtues by her own metaphysical nature to say "SCREW negotiations, SCREW the surrender treaty, BURN YOU TWISTED ****ER!"

[Rater202]

*raises an eyebrow, puts her arms behind her head* You would either have to keep it a secret from me - thus not impressing me, as was the original goal - or trust that I would never tell my lover that she'd been tricked.

"I helped your girlfriend find enlightenment." sounds pretty impressive, so I don't see how you not knowing the "It's a trick" part makes it any less so.

Edit: At Abocve: "Gods Wanted to play the Games" was not the reason for the rebellion.

It was "The Primordials are lazy sons of bitches who don't give a damn about creation."

The Exalted Exist because if the God's were to fight, their oaths could be used to compel them to surrender, and Later to do the jobs the gods used to do becuase the gods are all either doing the jobs the primordials used to do or got tricked into playing cosmic Heroin Box)

[Lord Raziere]

*raises an eyebrow, puts her arms behind her head* You would either have to keep it a secret from me - thus not impressing me, as was the original goal - or trust that I would never tell my lover that she'd been tricked.

oh hm.

that is a problem.

oh well, guess that failed too. Sorry, guess I have nothing useful to add.

[Rater202]

oh hm.

that is a problem.

oh well, guess that failed too. Sorry, guess I have nothing useful to add.

*Poke* All you have to do is trick Luna into thinking you genuinly helped Gaia into finding enlightenment instead of tricking her.

[HalfTangible]

"I helped your girlfriend find enlightenment." sounds pretty impressive, so I don't see how you not knowing the "It's a trick" part makes it any less so.

You want to trick the goddess of trickery into not noticing that you tricked a Primordial that she is in love with and regularly plays naughty sysadmin with, but still want to tell the goddess in question that you were involved somehow.

AFTER she has caught wind of your plan to lie.

Good luck with that one, stud.

oh hm.

that is a problem.

oh well, guess that failed too. Sorry, guess I have nothing useful to add.

*shrug* I could be wrong.

Mostly just to keep him from having them.

I find the incarnae mostly to be not worth the adoration. I mean, the reason the exalted exist is because they didn't want to do their jobs and wanted a turn on the Xbox. And no, I don't feel the Yozis are better.

Also the Primordials were cruel, twisted beings who had all gods under literal mind control but why bring all context into a discussion when you can just summarize and get it wrong?

And the reason for a huge number of in-setting problems are that the Incarnae either don't do their jobs or threaten to do their jobs in a pretty bad way. War against the primordials? Let's declare them and all their souls to be anathema, and result in the creation of Hell and the Underworld, both of which will be existential threats to creation for let's be generous and say the rest of time. Now let's declare human beings who get caught up in the wake of the sucking vortex of the underworld to be Anathema as well, that way no matter how nice an individual ghost or demon may be exalts can abuse the hell out of them. Fair folk living in creation as peacefully as possible? Anathema, burn it with holy fire.

First, the Primordials were ALREADY an existential threat to all of Creation and would be for the rest of time. Just now they're open about it and we're prepared to fight them. You don't build a fortress and then leave its gates unbarred and unguarded. (and as a side note, we didn't know the underworld was gonna happen)

Secondly, unless Saturn's been messing with the loom again, ghosts aren't destroyed during the day, they just get sent back to the underworld. And we didn't write the rules for that place anyway! As for holy things burning ghosts... Sorry we took every precaution against LITERAL OBLIVION.

Lastly, 'As peacefully as possible' is still 'soul eating monstrosity that f#@$s with the Loom of Fate'. Any more peaceful than that and they stop being fair folk.

Oh, and let's put a back-door into the minds of all the lunar exalted because I don't trust my fellow incarnae who has sat at my right hand for a million generations and regularly defends creation from cosmic horrors. No way I want her chosen to not have an easily abusable mental weakness, but my Solars will obviously be incorruptible, so who needs failsafes?

*blinks* Weakness?
I HAD a failsafe. They're called the Lunars.

But then things start going really WRONG and where is he? Hierophant claims to speak for you and orders horrible things done in your name like operation wyldhand? Well, I suppose you COULD tell your chosen not to be jerks, or you could throw a hissy fit and stop talking to the world at all, giving the Hierophant the chance to claim he's the only one you're still talking to and seize even MORE power for MORE horrible things. Great contagion ravaging the majority of living things and even killing gods, well, I know Yu-Shan needs creation to keep existing and creation is washing into nonexistence, but let's just shut the doors and hope they work this out for themselves, I guess we'll find out if we all die! Oh, now the fair folk are returning in never before seen numbers and rampaging across the face of the earth and the vast majority of potential defenders of reality are already dead and the most powerful survivors are locked in here with me, but let's give them another century or two to work things out on their own down there. Somehow they managed! Yay! Hey guys, we're back, and we're reimposing rule of law on the terrestrial gods, you don't hold it against us that we left you out to die, right?

*eyes narrow* You have not seen half of the horror I witnessed in a single moment during those days.
And if Sol had gone onto the battlefield, that would've lead to the climactic finale that the Balorian Crusade's narrative was building up to. That would've doomed us far easier. I TRIED to go out alone, but-
NO.
*pouts* Overprotective busybody.

And this is the man we trust with the godspear? Not that we have that much of a choice.

*munches on a sandwich*

For an incomparable beacon of perfection and alleged good judgement, BOY does he suck at it. Heck, Queen Merela's crowning moment appears to have been sneaking aboard the Daystar and telling him how much he sucked, to the point he said "You're pretty much right, hey, you should be in charge." The same Merela who believed that problems between solars were best solved by gladiatorial combat to the death.

As I recall, what actually happened was Sol was waiting to speak with Merela, convinced her using the Daystar was a bad idea, and then made her Queen.

So. Not killing him or anything, but I'd feel a lot safer if the fate of the world and essential tools for negotiations with foreign powers like the Yozis were not in the dubious hands of a man whose chief moment of political achievement appears to be rejecting surrender terms cruelly enough to cause the Principle of Hierarchy, a being who is incapable of violating those social structures to which she has bound herself and who was the only being who seems to have comparably potent virtues by her own metaphysical nature to say "SCREW negotiations, SCREW the surrender treaty, BURN YOU TWISTED ****ER!"

Let me see if I understand.

You believe that it is a problem that I hold the most powerful weapons in existence because - you claim - I am too aloof and distant to be useful. You back this information up with conclusions drawn from third hand accounts and incomplete evidence (do you even know what the Primordials' original surrender terms were?).

Your solution is to hand my power to a Solar Exalted - one of the beings that actually enacted Operation Wyldhand. Whose corruption is ultimately responsible responsible for the Infernals, Abyssals, Death Lords, and most other problems Creation currently faces from within. Who were originally cast down by their own servants because they were too monstrous to allow to continue.

You then mock me for perceived poor judgement.

[golentan]

1) You don't speak for the incarnae, halftangible.
2) Judging classes of beings rather than individuals is part of the problem.
3) Primordials weren't and aren't better, the whole problem with creation remains the might makes right narrative and the primordials were the first incarnation of that, but the gods and exalted had a chance to make things better and blew it. And have proceeded to repeatedly blow it since.
4) No amount of hypothetical genius makes up for consistently poor results, and no plan that works as intended is stupid. Sol's leadership of creation to me looks like an unbroken string of failures (creation has broken how many times and how many different ways under his watch, starting with the 3 spheres cataclysm moving on through time of cascading years, operation wyld hand, the chaos surrounding the usurpation, the contagion, the balorian crusade, the steady deterioration of knowledge, technology, and the permanent loss of a number of unique entities like the dragon kings) and now we've got anti-creation exalts and incarnae level beings unbound by treaty like the deathlords going at it hammer and tongs things seem unlikely to get better under his nominal and usually absent leadership, and given his past history when he does intervene I don't feel particularly better about the idea of him taking a more active role.

Also, unless exalted back-lore has gotten way more interesting since I last checked, I've faced down things way more horrifying than anything Sol has. Without the benefits of invulnerability, more to my chagrin.

[SaurOps]

Honestly, if I were playing him I'd grab Phoenix Renewal Tactic and Glory to the Most High since you're already at Integrity 5 Essence 5, allowing you to grab essence 6.

I would then grab "Should the Sun Not Rise," and if possible a homebrew essence 7 Larceny charm which allows you to literally steal charms from other beings with a touch (accessed through Divine Transcendence of Larceny).

Now you must find a way to get into the Jade Pleasure Dome undetected. The unconquered sun is almost certain to have suppressed his temperance while within it, and so will be vulnerable to deleterious effects (he has no other shaping defense!). Using your theft charms, strip him of all his powers (if you snag the power which allows him to instantly cure shapings first he will be unable to recover without aide), but creation is no worse for the wear because, since you have Should The Sun Not Rise and Sol hasn't done anything useful other than enabling the existence of Holy in millennia as best I can tell.

Boom. You have stolen the arbitration of Holy Powers from the unconquered sun. In front of luna, no less.

Motivation complete!

In bold is a rather huge leap for something as direct and literal as Solar Larceny. Even in the event it does, the existence of some up-and-comer trying to drain off divine power reminds me of a character from a GB game, and it doesn't end well for him - in fact, there's no way it can end well for him if you're to finish the game.

[golentan]

In bold is a rather huge leap for something as direct and literal as Solar Larceny. Even in the event it does, the existence of some up-and-comer trying to drain off divine power reminds me of a character from a GB game, and it doesn't end well for him - in fact, there's no way it can end well for him if you're to finish the game.

Even if the homebrew isn't allowed, at least you can steal the physical panoply (Clarion, Spear, Aegis, all that).

[Lord Raziere]

*snip8 a lot of discussion*
Your solution is to hand my power to a Solar Exalted - one of the beings that actually enacted Operation Wyldhand. Whose corruption is ultimately responsible responsible for the Infernals, Abyssals, Death Lords, and most other problems Creation currently faces from within. Who were originally cast down by their own servants because they were too monstrous to allow to continue.

You then mock me for perceived poor judgement.

......I wonder how an Autochthonian would react to this discussion.

Alchemical:
Honestly? All things considered, I don't think we're any better. the Eight Nations did do a lot of stupid stuff in our past. However Creation seems to possess a more sustainable source of resources, so....technically your in better straits than we are. I mean sure, the biggest nation is the on the verge of civil war, guy who may or may not be super-tyrants are returning and you have new Exalts trying to kill and spread death and so on, but at least your entire world isn't dying while your resources are beginning to run out and your God is still asleep and all you can do is try to preserve and keep things stable as much as you can.....I mean you guys have the luxury to be Gulak, Claslat AND Kamak all at the same time! Sure it might be hard but....I'm pretty sure we're gonna try and take whatever we can when he get through. No matter how big your light on the ceiling is or if your ground is made of this weird green jade!

(I just imagined how funny it would be if the Autochthonians thought grass was green jade, since they probably don't have anything else green in all of Autochthonia. Yeah, I'm just having fun now, not seriously arguing.)

[golentan]

......I wonder how an Autochthonian would react to this discussion.

Alchemical:
Honestly? All things considered, I don't think we're any better. the Eight Nations did do a lot of stupid stuff in our past. However Creation seems to possess a more sustainable source of resources, so....technically your in better straits than we are. I mean sure, the biggest nation is the on the verge of civil war, guy who may or may not be super-tyrants are returning and you have new Exalts trying to kill and spread death and so on, but at least your entire world isn't dying while your resources are beginning to run out and your God is still asleep and all you can do is try to preserve and keep things stable as much as you can.....I mean you guys have the luxury to be Gulak, Claslat AND Kamak all at the same time! Sure it might be hard but....I'm pretty sure we're gonna try and take whatever we can when he get through. No matter how big your light on the ceiling is or if your ground is made of this weird green jade!

(I just imagined how funny it would be if the Autochthonians thought grass was green jade, since they probably don't have anything else green in all of Autochthonia. Yeah, I'm just having fun now, not seriously arguing.)

I dunno if that's right. I mean, the 8 nations have an ecological crisis, not a political one, and it's beyond their control (the decision was made for them, and most weren't asked if they wanted to tag along before the Maker snatched them). Politically, they've been stable for millennia. If it weren't for the fact that the ecological crisis keeps worsening and involves infectious insanity as a secondary affect, I think they could be stable for far longer.

No alchemical has the power to directly destabilize their world, and alchemicals are the heaviest hitters in the game for them and aren't afflicted with the creeping crazies in the same way. Vs. individual characters in Creation who could potentially snap and decide to murder everything, and are capable of learning the Creation Slaying Oblivion Kick combo.

Autochthonia has a Sauron figure in the form of the Viator of Nullspace, but he's been safely not-there for centuries and beyond that doesn't seem to want to kill the whole world, just the people, and may have the world's interests at heart on some level. Vs. the Ebon Dragon, Malfeas, all the deathlords, a dozen or so lunars, various other celestials, probably the occasional dragonblood (I'm wondering about you forest witches), and about half the raksha fighting about who gets to burn down creation fastest (the raksha are overwhelmingly delusional for believing they matter in that contest, but still): Autochthonia may have apostates, but they're outnumbered, outgunned, and keep to the shadows and the mutants and the criminals and gremlins mostly for their cult support for fear of being weeded out by the soulsteel and moonsilver castes. They have a soul crisis, but they've got 10s of millions of living souls currently. They've got a couple of different options for solving most of these, including waking up autochthon, a successful project razor, the finding of the Black City and the understanding of its meaning, and others. Autochthonia has fewer cosmic keystones that could wipe out the world: Creation has the Daystar, the Elemental Poles, the Realm Defense Grid, the Penitent and the Lap, the loom of fate, the cages of the Greater Elemental Dragons and probably a dozen other things that could be targeted for destruction to destabilize and destroy the world or are powerful enough to be used to destabilize and destroy the world as a weapons system. Autochthonia has the binding on the Viator, one elemental dragon who might in the future become a greater elemental dragon, and you could go to the godhead and try smashing things up if you made it past elder Adamant castes maybe?

Autochthonia is screwed, but it's not systematically screwed, is what I'm saying. The status quo leads to apocalypse, but everyone agrees on that fact and is struggling towards a solution, sometimes haltingly, sometimes with the drums of war in the background, but they are working on it. Creation, people can't seem to stop fighting over who gets to be lord of the scrap heap to point out that they're kicking out the pillars of their own survival. And the literally insane folks who are too strong to say no to aren't in charge just because they can kick in the heads of an army singlehandedly, because if they tried they could never safely use the vats again and the most mighty among them tend to get high clarity which arguably makes you MORE sane.

[Lord Raziere]

huh guess you make a good point, Golentan. that is a good case for why Autochthonia's system works despite them being screwed for now, it just requires modification rather than replacement.

whereas in Creation itself....the other Exalts ARE needed because the systems are so screwed up that they need an Exalt to find a way to make a new one from the ground up because it clearly isn't working....

[The_Snark]

Now let's declare human beings who get caught up in the wake of the sucking vortex of the underworld to be Anathema as well, that way no matter how nice an individual ghost or demon may be exalts can abuse the hell out of them. Fair folk living in creation as peacefully as possible? Anathema, burn it with holy fire.

Nitpicking: only unshaped Fair Folk are considered creatures of darkness, and they're fundamentally incapable of living in Creation (peacefully or otherwise). Either they turn it into something that isn't Creation, or they calcify and die in minutes. Shaped Fair Folk don't have to worry about Holy effects (much to the annoyance of the Silver Pact, I suspect).

As for ghosts... I had this recollection that they were only creatures of darkness at ST discretion, with Random Commoner Ghost #403,788 being unlikely to merit the label, but upon looking it up the Creatures of Darkness sidebar lists the whole category along with demons and the like. Not sure where I got that. That sidebar does say that there are exceptions to this rule, with the example being a ghost, so maybe my brain extrapolated from there and made it into headcanon.

... that's all. Carry on!