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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    You might want to add that sidhe scholar adds knowledge(arcana) to your class skills in the skill section in addition to in the variants section since it's the identification skill for dragon wildshape.
    Also it might be worth mentioning that a sidhe scholar is noticeably not a member of whatever species they wildshape into due to weird colorations, eyes, etc? I'm not sure how often that would actually be relevant but if you're trying to blend in for whatever reason I ocould see it coming up.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by nailbudday View Post
    You might want to add that sidhe scholar adds knowledge(arcana) to your class skills in the skill section in addition to in the variants section since it's the identification skill for dragon wildshape.
    Also it might be worth mentioning that a sidhe scholar is noticeably not a member of whatever species they wildshape into due to weird colorations, eyes, etc? I'm not sure how often that would actually be relevant but if you're trying to blend in for whatever reason I ocould see it coming up.
    Sounds reasonable. Added both just now, the latter to the downsides section of the ACF (cause I've gotta think you'd rather be inconspicuous in the vast majority of cases, though I guess there's something to be said for your party knowing which bird you are).

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    If you're a Contemplative (Spell Domain) without Holt Warden, how do you cast anyspell and benefit from it?
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    If you're a Contemplative (Spell Domain) without Holt Warden, how do you cast anyspell and benefit from it?
    Not sure whether the notion of a third level domain spell slot precludes the inclusion of this slot that previously contained a third level domain spell. It's a reasonable interpretation, but I feel like it could go either way. Might make mention of the issue.

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Sanctified spells (the spontaneous Sanctified spells for Good Clerics work like spontaneous Cure spells; as such, you can use non-Cleric spell slots to cast them)
    I missed this earlier, but this is the opposite of how spontaneous cure works. You explicitly cannot use slots from another class for them.

  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    I thought you should include the Hathran Mask of True Seeing (Unapproachable East 57). I didn't see it on the items list when I checked recently. Also missing was the Winged Mask (Magic of Faerun 168).
    Last edited by Endarire; 2017-08-08 at 04:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    I thought you should include the Hathran Mask of True Seeing (Unapproachable East 57). I didn't see it on the items list when I checked recently. Also missing was the Winged Mask (Magic of Faerun 168).
    They're good items, but I dunno that they're good enough to overcome how druid non-specific they are. The winged mask especially seems obviated by how good druids are at flying. Enhance wild shape for alternate vision modes is somewhat harder to keep up long term, but the mask is rather expensive so that balances out to some extent. So, these items both start out on the back foot, and I dunno that they're insane enough to overcome that.

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    The Winged Mask is useful for flying in a non-flight form like Fleshraker. The Hathran Mask gets you true seeing continuously. They seem worth a mention, even if they're listed as bad or merely OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Have you yet included Plant Companions?
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Have you yet included Plant Companions?
    Nah, though I've seriously considered it. I had a whole entry written and in the handbook before I found the, in retrospect kinda obvious, text about the plant companions retaining standard companion progression. It's a difficult to parse variant in either case, with the advantage in the progression-less case being that it's both difficult to parse and also clearly bad. With that text, the best approach would probably be building up some companions to compare to same level high end animal options. Doable, but tricky.

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    How long do you advise keeping the blue animal companions besides the Fleshraker? It seems like these would be useful for about 6 levels instead of only 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
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  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Dragon #357 has the Swift Avenger feat, which I didn't find in your handbook or on this thread yet. It's Swift Hunter for druids, but with slightly more forgiving requirements: Nature Sense and Skirmish +1d6. Instead of stacking Skirmish and Favoured Enemy, it stacks Skirmish and Wild Shape uses, without increasing other Wild Shape features.

    Overall, a pretty nice dip for a combat druid, and very accessible.
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    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
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  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    How long do you advise keeping the blue animal companions besides the Fleshraker? It seems like these would be useful for about 6 levels instead of only 3.
    Riding dog (and brixashulty) is probably the least sustainable out of the non-aquatic blue companions. Great at level one, but loses steam pretty fast. The magebred animals are great, so I'd think them quite viable in that longer time-span. Dire tortoise is reasonable, strikes me as competitive with the 13th level stuff. And, on the giant octopus and giant squid, octopus seems like it'd be better than 16th level aquatic options that aren't giant squid, but squid is squid and such.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    Dragon #357 has the Swift Avenger feat, which I didn't find in your handbook or on this thread yet. It's Swift Hunter for druids, but with slightly more forgiving requirements: Nature Sense and Skirmish +1d6. Instead of stacking Skirmish and Favoured Enemy, it stacks Skirmish and Wild Shape uses, without increasing other Wild Shape features.

    Overall, a pretty nice dip for a combat druid, and very accessible.
    The list of things that'd be worth a caster level is pretty short, and I'm doubtful skirmish damage would land on that list. Honestly, it doesn't even seem that great without the dip, given the high quality of other druid feats. It's nice with pounce and such, but it's not insane or anything.

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    The list of things that'd be worth a caster level is pretty short, and I'm doubtful skirmish damage would land on that list. Honestly, it doesn't even seem that great without the dip, given the high quality of other druid feats. It's nice with pounce and such, but it's not insane or anything.
    I'm not going to defend Swift Avenger against Natural Spell or anything, but in a handbook that discusses goliaths and Blighter (if only to recommend against them), I think it at least deserves mentioning, as a druid-specific feat that is a significant cut above the rest. It's the kind of obscure-but-practical feat that can pull a niche concept together, for those who want a different kind of druid. Say, a swift-and-deadly druidic avenger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Read ExLibrisMortis' post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
    My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
    Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.

  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Riding Dog Animal Companion: How viable does this seem until level 7 compared to land-based, non-Fleshraker options? I intended to swap the riding dog for a Magebred Ghost Tiger then.

    Also, Winged Masks and Hathran Masks: They may be generally useful to all characters, but so are Belts of Battle, and you listed a Belt of Battle as blue.
    Last edited by Endarire; 2017-09-02 at 05:36 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    I'm not going to defend Swift Avenger against Natural Spell or anything, but in a handbook that discusses goliaths and Blighter (if only to recommend against them), I think it at least deserves mentioning, as a druid-specific feat that is a significant cut above the rest. It's the kind of obscure-but-practical feat that can pull a niche concept together, for those who want a different kind of druid. Say, a swift-and-deadly druidic avenger.
    I guess I could toss it in as a red and vaguely trappish thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Riding Dog Animal Companion: How viable does this seem until level 7 compared to land-based, non-Fleshraker options? I intended to swap the riding dog for a Magebred Ghost Tiger then.
    Leopard strikes me as somewhat better. Worse defenses, but pounce and extra attacks is nice. Ape is likely better too. Just a really burly fellow. Riding dog isn't crazy far off, but it's a less good option.
    Also, Winged Masks and Hathran Masks: They may be generally useful to all characters, but so are Belts of Battle, and you listed a Belt of Battle as blue.
    Belts of battle are insane though. And somewhat moreso when you have spells making your actions super valuable. These items, the hathran mask especially, are actively below par on a druid relative to other classes, and not as good in a generic sense.

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Feat: Dragonmarked Summoner. It's just a bad feat unless you're swimming in spare feats. May be worth mentioning since I found it today.

    Also, from Complete Champion's masterwork holy symbols, a Vanguard of Kord gives +1 CL for Transmutation and Luck Domain spells. Kord is CG meaning a NG or CN Druid could benefit.
    Last edited by Endarire; 2017-09-03 at 05:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
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  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Fantastically amazing guide that just gets better every time I check in. Thank you!

    I think you have some confusion on the Lung Dragon section under alternate wild forms...they work a little differently than other dragons.

    The Yu Lung is actually the juvenile form common to ALL Lung dragons and the Li Lung and Pan Lung are mature forms. As a consequence, the Yu Lung does not get Invisibility or Alternate Form.

    As such, the Yu Lung may not merit an entry (I guess you might leverage Water Breathing + 90' swim speed + 90' blindsight for underwater action) while the Li Lung and Pan Lung are actually both age category 4 (3 categories of Yu Lung + 1 category for their mature forms). This means both of those forms have considerably better blindsight (120'), darkvision (400') and detect thought (20') ranges.

    Combined with alternate form and invisibility, this makes them quite a handy tool for the creative druid when performing the occasional reconnaissance/infiltration mission.

    Thanks again for all your work!
    Last edited by taut; 2017-09-04 at 11:37 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Feat: Dragonmarked Summoner. It's just a bad feat unless you're swimming in spare feats. May be worth mentioning since I found it today.
    Yeah, not even sure how ridiculously many feats you'd need before that'd be viable.
    Also, from Complete Champion's masterwork holy symbols, a Vanguard of Kord gives +1 CL for Transmutation and Luck Domain spells. Kord is CG meaning a NG or CN Druid could benefit.
    Yeah, might be worth tossing in some that aren't ehlonna's brooch, given the cost associated.
    Quote Originally Posted by taut View Post
    I think you have some confusion on the Lung Dragon section under alternate wild forms...they work a little differently than other dragons.

    The Yu Lung is actually the juvenile form common to ALL Lung dragons and the Li Lung and Pan Lung are mature forms. As a consequence, the Yu Lung does not get Invisibility or Alternate Form.

    As such, the Yu Lung may not merit an entry (I guess you might leverage Water Breathing + 90' swim speed + 90' blindsight for underwater action) while the Li Lung and Pan Lung are actually both age category 4 (3 categories of Yu Lung + 1 category for their mature forms). This means both of those forms have considerably better blindsight (120'), darkvision (400') and detect thought (20') ranges.
    I do have the thing about invisibility and alternate form noted, but it looks like you're correct about the higher age categories of the higher end lungs, which does get rid of most or all of my noted utility. Only really interesting thing about the yu lung is detect thoughts at level 12, which probably isn't worth note given that pan lung comes online at level 13. Generally an upgrade to the power level of dragon wild shape as a whole though, which is neat. Probably gonna drop yu lung, but definitely gonna add the fact that li lung earthquakes spread out 60 feet instead of 15.

  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    One thing in Gestalt....this gets pretty far afield I guess, but then gestalting a Druid is rarified air.

    If I were to play a gestalt Druid, I would take Ranger as the "passive" class.

    Not a stock ranger of course, but one of the deluxe models.

    Consider:

    Moon Warded (Dragon Mag #340), Arcane Hunter (CM 32) Ranger gives you:

    Wisdom to AC at level 2
    Immunity to harmful Mind-Affecting spells and abilities at level 11
    +2 Skill Points / level and some useful skills
    Reflex Saves
    Full BAB

    Add in a feat, Nemesis (BoED 44) and you have a nigh-undefeatable 60' vision mode vs arcane spell and/or invocation users, not blocked by anything that I know of including walls etc. With extra melee damage vs evil representatives of these clowns to boot.

    Add in a feat Sword of the Arcane Order (CoV) and you get access to lower level wiz/sorc spells.

    If you can cut/paste some or all of this to the Mystic Ranger (Dragon Mag #336) alternate class (debatable) then you really power up, with a lot of spell power up to 5th level spells at the sorc's spell progression rate (through 10th level at least). This makes Sword of the Arcane Order really strong, obviously.

    If some or all of those options are available I think I'd take this over Sword Sage pretty easily.

    But then, I don't play gestalt so... :P

  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Sounds plausible. I'll check out the list at some point. Meanwhile, kinda considering upgrading li lung to blue. Quadrupling the range of all those abilities is a serious upgrade to an already pretty sweet monster.

  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    In an Undead-heavy campaign, how do your Wild Shape form, animal companion, and summonling ratings change due to bite attacks being the best way to handle DR/slashing and DR/blunt?

    For animal companions, the feat Draconic Aura: Vigor (with the Vigor aura being from Player's Handbook II 13, left column) being a wonderful way to keep your party stabilized in combat and somewhat healthy out of combat.

    Dire Eagles get Low-Light Vision, which might be 'fancy.'
    Last edited by Endarire; 2017-10-09 at 03:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
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  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    In an Undead-heavy campaign, how do your Wild Shape form, animal companion, and summonling ratings change due to bite attacks being the best way to handle DR/slashing and DR/blunt?
    I suppose the bite oriented options would get an advantage in contexts with a lot of damage type DR.
    For animal companions, the feat Draconic Aura: Vigor (with the Vigor aura being from Player's Handbook II 13, left column) being a wonderful way to keep your party stabilized in combat and somewhat healthy out of combat.
    Feat was there, but the specific aura was added to the list of the best draconic auras.
    Dire Eagles get Low-Light Vision, which might be 'fancy.'
    Nah, all animals get that.

  24. - Top - End - #354
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    A few questions:

    1) For power-play, would you rate the half orc substitution level over the iron constitution?

    2) I lost myself inside the feats discussion. It seems there are no real clue on feats themselves, but clues on what does what. The issue is: according to the guide, are we just supposed to take the blue staff, know what it does, and make the character according to that?

    3) Guide says, regarding to wild shape: “The forms you get access to here grant abilities that are sometimes difficult to access on a druid, sometimes highly synergistic with your normal abilities, and often both at the same time. So, the result is that you should absolutely take a wild shape feat, because it represents such a dramatic increase in power, but you shouldn’t take more than one, because it doesn’t offer that same scale of increase”.

    Basically, if I go dragon wild shape, I shouldn’t take Natural Spell?


    4) Guide says: “Natural Bond: Increase your effective druid level with respect to your animal companion by three, with a maximum at your actual level. This feat’s apparent intended use is to get you back to druidic parity if you’ve lost animal companion levels along the way, but that’s not the best way to use it. Instead, its most valuable use is taking an advanced animal companion of some kind, thus reducing your effective druid level with respect to that animal companion, and using natural bond to bump that animal companion’s power level.”
    Does the author mean that I could get a stronger animal by abusing this?


    5) I have to get my first six levels of druid. What am I supposed to do?

    6) when am I supposed to get the planar shepherd?

  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    I don't know about 1.

    2: you are supposed to use the guide as a guide. Do some reading. Think about your options. The blue ones are good suggestions as strong feats. But you should think about what kind of druid you want to play. What is your alignment? What will the druid's role in the party be? What goals will drive your druid? Will the druid be wildshaping, at the front lines of combat ("The way of the Bear"), or flying above it using BFC and summoned creatures to control the battle ("The Way of the Bat")? Choose feats and skill points and other parts of the build that will support this.

    3: you should absolutely take natural spell. Though dragons can cast and you might not need natural spell to cast in dragon shape, you will probably want other wildshape forms, too.

    For dragon wildshape you need 15 ranks in Knowledge Nature, so you can't take it before 12 level, anyway. You will want to be a fish, bird, bat, tiger or bear in the meantime. Take Natural Spell at 6th level.

    4: Natural bond makes your AC a bit more powerful, if you take of the higher-level animal companions. You can't use it to get a more powerful type of AC than you qualify for ordinarily, though. You just make your existing AC more powerful. E.g. your effective druid level for your tiger animal companion would be -3 instead of -6. You can't get dire lion before 10th level.

    5. That is up to you. Please don't use Eggynack's guide as a replacement for your own decision making. See 2 above.

    If you really need short-term help to get started, consider also Dictum Mortuum's "Quick Start Druid" guide to the very very very basics.

    6. You are not *supposed* to get planar shepherd (though theoretically you could take it at level 6 because you need wildshape from druid 5). It's an awesomely powerful option for a druid, opening up all kinds of abusable wildshape forms. You should talk to your DM before taking it. Inter-planar travel might not fit your campaign at all.
    Last edited by Hiro Quester; 2017-10-22 at 09:17 AM. Reason: uchanged link to the more updated version of DM's QSD guide.
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  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
    1) For power-play, would you rate the half orc substitution level over the iron constitution?
    Iron constitution is probably somewhat more powerful, because nauseated is a disastrous condition to get hit by. The +1 HP and access to intimidate from half-orc is nice though.
    2) I lost myself inside the feats discussion. It seems there are no real clue on feats themselves, but clues on what does what. The issue is: according to the guide, are we just supposed to take the blue staff, know what it does, and make the character according to that?
    If you're optimizing, the general idea is to take blue stuff except where it actively conflicts with other blue stuff, and then take other stuff to fill the gaps. So, greenbound summoning is great, so you may want to take that, but then, despite the fact that it's blue also, you probably won't want to take rashemi elemental summoning.
    3)
    Basically, if I go dragon wild shape, I shouldn’t take Natural Spell?
    I was specifically referring to form adding feats there. Natural spell represents a boost to the forms you take, rather than an extra set of forms to take. Could maybe make that language more clear.

    5) I have to get my first six levels of druid. What am I supposed to do?
    Depends on book access somewhat, and also on what you want to do. Natural spell is a must at 6th level, but from there you have a lot of choices available. Like, if you want to pursue aberration wild shape, you'll want to prepare for that by picking up the prerequisite around this point. Otherwise, there's stuff like natural bond, initiate feats, greenbound, and a few other things available.

  27. - Top - End - #357
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Given a choice between half-orc Druid and human Druid, I'd normally take human since it's a bonus feat at level 1. But if you're a half-orc Druid, what options give you the best benefits? Answer that.
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  28. - Top - End - #358
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Given a choice between half-orc Druid and human Druid, I'd normally take human since it's a bonus feat at level 1. But if you're a half-orc Druid, what options give you the best benefits? Answer that.
    My general thinking on it is dragonborn desert half-orc with the substitution levels at first, sixth, and maybe fourth too depending on your mood. From there, it's mostly straightforward druid stuff, though the somewhat better animal companion you get lends you towards a bit of animal companion focus, and bully animal has a face edge to it. So, I kinda like combining the aforementioned setup with exalted VoP stuff, though I can't claim that that would provide the best benefits. Just kinda adds together nicely. Half-orc stuff isn't super weird though. The stuff it offers fits well into any sort of standard druid build. Dunno that I agree that human is better though, even early. You're basically trading out the feat for an absolute ton of HP early on, and then later you get the feat back with augment summoning.

  29. - Top - End - #359
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    Thanks to you three. I've got a few more questions:

    1) Is eschew materials useful on a druid?

    2) Is there a chance to improve the animal companion, apart from the feats? Can you get another animal companion out of the 'list', especially when going into epic levels?

    3) I can't seem to be able to find the handle animal guide you linked in your handbook (it brings me to a dead link)

    4) I read what you write about wild shape. But I'm finding it hard to decide between aberration and dragon shape.
    Do I have to decide based on versatility (dragon) or pure aggressive power (aberration)?

    5) To cast two spells at once in a turn, what am I supposed to get?

    6) What about counterspelling? Is there a feat for that?

    7) Powerplay: Taking Iron constitution ACF and then going for fussy flaw is pretty powerplayish, isn't it? :P
    Last edited by Sergio; 2017-10-23 at 10:22 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #360
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Jun 2017

    Default Re: Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

    1.) Eschew materials is usually a waste, simply because feats are scarce and there are so many good ones out there.
    2.) I am much less confident in my animal companion optimization, but i think you can get barding (armor) for your animal. There's also the beastmaster class, which gives animal buffs and extra animals and dovetails well with several feats.
    4.) Both are good. Talk to your dm about how far your character can go. Not all dms want a thoon elder brain in the party.
    5.) The quicken spell feat
    6.) Wizards are better at counterspelling, and you'll be most effective controlling the battlefield.
    7.) There are better flaws. If i recall, theres one called lover of nature that is easy and fits the druid theme.

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