Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

[Darrin]

5.) The quicken spell feat

I think he was looking for the Nilshai. It's an 8HD aberration in Unapproachable East. You need Aberrant Wild Shape and then cast enhance wild shape (Spell Compendium) to get the Nilshai's Fearsome Celerity (Ex) ability.

6.) Wizards are better at counterspelling, and you'll be most effective controlling the battlefield.

Actually, clerics are much better at counterspelling when they take Divine Defiance (Fiendish Codex II). Druids could use this feat if they get Turn Undead from somewhere, but that's somewhat problematic to get onto a druid chassis.

[Sergio]

1.) Eschew materials is usually a waste, simply because feats are scarce and there are so many good ones out there.
2.) I am much less confident in my animal companion optimization, but i think you can get barding (armor) for your animal. There's also the beastmaster class, which gives animal buffs and extra animals and dovetails well with several feats.
4.) Both are good. Talk to your dm about how far your character can go. Not all dms want a thoon elder brain in the party.
5.) The quicken spell feat
6.) Wizards are better at counterspelling, and you'll be most effective controlling the battlefield.
7.) There are better flaws. If i recall, theres one called lover of nature that is easy and fits the druid theme.

Eschew materials is the talent for the weirdest mechanic I've ever met. What scares me the most when making casters is the fact that you always have to be on your toes thinking about the damn components every time you cast.

I'm always afraid that, after telling the DM that I'm going to buy the components, I've got to ask for each one of them or start listing them all or always ask him every session\day to make me go to a shop (if we are in a city) to double check the components, afraid that he is going to pull a "DAMN YOU DON'T HAVE THE COMPONENTS SON" or a "YOU FORGOT YOUR COMPONENTS SON" or a "YOU DIDN'T CHECK THE BAG SON AND THE MERCHANT FORGOT THE COMPONENTS YOU ARE LOOKING FOR".

I think he was looking for the Nilshai. It's an 8HD aberration in Unapproachable East. You need Aberrant Wild Shape and then cast enhance wild shape (Spell Compendium) to get the Nilshai's Fearsome Celerity (Ex) ability.
Thanks



Actually, clerics are much better at counterspelling when they take Divine Defiance (Fiendish Codex II). Druids could use this feat if they get Turn Undead from somewhere, but that's somewhat problematic to get onto a druid chassis.

;)









By the way, is there a recommended armor?

[rigsmal]

Typo in the description of word of balance: You list LG twice among the affected alignments, and miss CE.

[eggynack]

1) Is eschew materials useful on a druid?

I guess if you can't or won't take natural spell for whatever reason. Natural spell duplicates eschew materials in a wild shape, but if you lack that access then you're going to need some way to deal with material components alongside the other components.

2) Is there a chance to improve the animal companion, apart from the feats?

I suppose tricks and warbeast. I dunno what else you'd use.

Can you get another animal companion out of the 'list', especially when going into epic levels?

Do you mean ditching an animal companion to get a different one? If so, yeah, that's a thing you can do.

3) I can't seem to be able to find the handle animal guide you linked in your handbook (it brings me to a dead link)

Not sure if this is the same one, cause the link is indeed broken, but here's the one I have linked now.

4) I read what you write about wild shape. But I'm finding it hard to decide between aberration and dragon shape.
Do I have to decide based on versatility (dragon) or pure aggressive power (aberration)?

Aberration has significantly more powerful abilities on most metrics. Not just in terms of aggression but also defensively and utility. However, dragon is, in a few different senses, lower investment. It's one feat instead of two, obviously, but it also allows you to take the forms you have access to on a rapid basis. Everything you'd get out of dragon wild shape is immediately accessible by way of a standard action. Aberration wild shape, by contrast, requires you to commit to a single form in a short term sense because most of what you want is gained through enhance wild shape. So, if you want relatively low commitment on a feat and time basis, dragon is the way to go, but if you want a bunch of really powerful stuff in spite of the associated costs then aberration is where it's at. I think aberration is the better option of the two.

7) Powerplay: Taking Iron constitution ACF and then going for fussy flaw is pretty powerplayish, isn't it? :P

Might toss it in, but the downside here is ridiculously minimal either way. Do potions even have utility in this context?

Typo in the description of word of balance: You list LG twice among the affected alignments, and miss CE.

True. Fixed.

[Endarire]

Versatile Spellcaster: It was absent from the guide and probably a niche feat for a typical Druid, but may be spiffy to get higher-level spells (if only summons, depending on how your GM rules the feat) sooner.

[Sergio]

Eggynack, thanks for being so helpful.

1) I talked with my DM and he won't approve cityscape related content. Is there any escape from nature's lure?

2) Can you explain me better why natural spell makes eschew components redundant?

[Thurbane]

A 5gp mundane item largely renders Eschew Materials redundant, particularly in combo with Natural Spell:

Spell Component Pouch
A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.

Material (M)
A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don’t bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

Natural Spell [General]
Prerequisites
Wis 13, wild shape ability.

Benefit
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.

They're cheap enough you can have backups (carried by your AC or party members).

[Hiro Quester]

Versatile Spellcaster: It was absent from the guide and probably a niche feat for a typical Druid, but may be spiffy to get higher-level spells (if only summons, depending on how your GM rules the feat) sooner.

It is mentioned in the guide, in the feats section. I took it on my Druid because of Eggynack’s mention of it.

Though it does require a somewhat questionable interpretation of a Druid or cleric as casting spontaneous spells. My DM allowed it. Your mileage may vary.

It doesn’t let you cast higher level spells any sooner, though. But it does let you cast an extra spell you know already of a level you can cast already, but did not prepare, by sacrificing two spells of a lower level. Very very useful for that spell you need but didn’t prepare.

[eggynack]

1) I talked with my DM and he won't approve cityscape related content. Is there any escape from nature's lure?

Looks like the list of things that trade that without trading an insane amount of other stuff is fangshields druid sub levels, half-orc sub levels, planar druid sub levels, root walker, shifter druid sub levels, and wasteland druid. Some of those are obviously race dependent, but a couple, planar, root walker, and wasteland, are not.

2) Can you explain me better why natural spell makes eschew components redundant?

I guess you technically still need the pouch, but natural spell grants access to components and foci that're melded into your body. You thus can't really lose the pouch or have it destroyed while wild shape'd, which removes a decent amount of the feat's utility.

Versatile Spellcaster: It was absent from the guide and probably a niche feat for a typical Druid, but may be spiffy to get higher-level spells (if only summons, depending on how your GM rules the feat) sooner.

It is mentioned in the guide, in the feats section. I took it on my Druid because of Eggynack’s mention of it.

Though it does require a somewhat questionable interpretation of a Druid or cleric as casting spontaneous spells. My DM allowed it. Your mileage may vary.

It doesn’t let you cast higher level spells any sooner, though. But it does let you cast an extra spell you know already of a level you can cast already, but did not prepare, by sacrificing two spells of a lower level. Very very useful for that spell you need but didn’t prepare.

I had versatile spellcaster in the handbook before, but I dropped it because someone convincingly argued that druids do not, in fact, know spells. I was somewhat skeptical at first, but I think there's some strong definition of spell knowledge that can be gleaned from the books. The feat defines that you're ditching two spells to get one that you know, so, within that interpretation, it doesn't work for druids. Not sure where the thread in question is, but there's a vague possibility that said thread is just this thread.

[Deophaun]

2) Can you explain me better why natural spell makes eschew components redundant?

Eschew components is almost redundant on a druid regardless of natural spell. There are relatively few spells per level that benefit from the feat, seeing as eschew materials does NOT remove the need for a focus, which is what most druid spells require (the mistletoe or holly sprig) as opposed to material components.

[Endarire]

Perhaps include a controversies section for things that are questionably legal, like Versatile Spellcaster.

[eggynack]

Perhaps include a controversies section for things that are questionably legal, like Versatile Spellcaster.

Not sure it's all that questionable. Check out this definition of known spell. It's a spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned. I could imagine some class superseding that with specific text about how it totally knows spells, but druids don't have that.

[Deophaun]

I could imagine some class superseding that with specific text about how it totally knows spells

The poor, forgotten Favored Soul.

Divine bards should also work. That, or divine bards are dysfunctional.

[eggynack]

The poor, forgotten Favored Soul.

Divine bards should also work. That, or divine bards are dysfunctional.

True enough. Either way, I'm inclined to think, on the basis of that definition, that this feat isn't functional for druids, even if it seemingly is functional for favored souls and such.

[Nifft]

The variant Spontaneous Divine Spellcaster also gets spells known, while being non-Arcane.

In theory, a spontaneous variant Druid could use Versatile Spellcaster.

[Sergio]

A 5gp mundane item largely renders Eschew Materials redundant, particularly in combo with Natural Spell:


They're cheap enough you can have backups (carried by your AC or party members).

Thanks.

cut

Thanks a lot.

Okay, last questions:

1) Is there a talent to make it possible that when charging as human, you could morph instantly?
1.1) Or is it already like so? :P

2) Would you go with "aggressive" and vulnerable at the same time? Was wondering if such ac would definitely impact me in a bad way.

3) does ashbound also improve elementals?

Note: I don't agree with the flaws section. At least not completely. I took vulnerable but I'm finding it hard to go for a second flaw (I'm probably going for instinct):

> The double armor check penalty and halved carrying capacity makes it so that you can't bring anything with you (especially with my druid that has lv 7 STR). Also , together with the following flaw (divine gestures) it sort of removes the pleasure of finding a rare armor artifact that you can't use because you are, well, flawed. Or you can use, but you have to wait a high level?

> Divine gestures is really risky for me. At least if there is even a slight chance you get imprisoned\ambushed, and put on an armor to makew it impossible for you to move, the risk is way too high.

> Bravado is a pretty risk flaw for a meleer. The issue lies in the fact that I have to roleplay the flaws of my character, and to me it sounds like this flaw overwrites the autoconservation instinct we all have. You can't run from anyone, and if we have to roleplay it, it sounds like you are going too heavy on the barbarian sake of things, and actually suggesting the dm another way to wipe you.


Btw, that's my final build (lv. 6 druid)
Flaw (vulnerable) Greenbound summoning
Flaw (bestial instinct): ashbound
Level 1: Aberration's blood
Bonus level 1 (human): Natural bond
Level 3: Assume supernatural ability (they are different from ex abilities, did I understand well?)
Level 6: Natural spells

[Rebel7284]

Mantle of the Beast allows you to wildshape as a swift action, which should accomplish the charge/wildshape combination.

[Hiro Quester]

I had versatile spellcaster in the handbook before, but I dropped it because someone convincingly argued that druids do not, in fact, know spells. I was somewhat skeptical at first, but I think there's some strong definition of spell knowledge that can be gleaned from the books. The feat defines that you're ditching two spells to get one that you know, so, within that interpretation, it doesn't work for druids. Not sure where the thread in question is, but there's a vague possibility that said thread is just this thread.

Oh. I had not seen that definition. I mentioned the questionability of "spontaneous caster" to my DM and he ruled it okay. I might have to revisit this with regard to "known spell".

Though having played with that ability has saved our bacon a few times when a situation arose in which I needed a spell (e.g. stone shape, control winds) and I didn't have (another) one prepared.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Oh. I had not seen that definition. I mentioned the questionability of "spontaneous caster" to my DM and he ruled it okay. I might have to revisit this with regard to "known spell".

Though having played with that ability has saved our bacon a few times when a situation arose in which I needed a spell (e.g. stone shape, control winds) and I didn't have (another) one prepared.

One could argue that druids hardly need the boost. On the other hand it's basically druid's Uncanny Forethought, so it depends on the rest of the party.
On the other other hand using one of the most broken feats in the game for one of the most powerful classes isn't really a good argument for a balancing issue.

Personally i'd only worry about it if your character has an unfortunate tendency to steal the spotlight in your party.

[eggynack]

1) Is there a talent to make it possible that when charging as human, you could morph instantly?
1.1) Or is it already like so? :P

As was stated, the mantle of the beast is effective here, and fast/swift wild shape can do the same in feat form if you prefer.

2) Would you go with "aggressive" and vulnerable at the same time? Was wondering if such ac would definitely impact me in a bad way.

Shouldn't be a huge problem, cause you'll generally have AC low enough that a -2 doesn't matter at low levels, and an AC high enough that a -2 doesn't matter later on. But, y'know, -2 AC is as bad as it is.

3) does ashbound also improve elementals?

Sure.

> The double armor check penalty and halved carrying capacity makes it so that you can't bring anything with you (especially with my druid that has lv 7 STR). Also , together with the following flaw (divine gestures) it sort of removes the pleasure of finding a rare armor artifact that you can't use because you are, well, flawed. Or you can use, but you have to wait a high level?

Armor in general has relatively limited utility on a druid. Wild shape causes you to lose access to your armor, and there're a lot of strong armor substitutes in the game for druids. Carrying capacity is a bit annoying, but there're a lot of item workarounds to that, as well as, y'know, having someone else carry stuff. As for rare armor artifacts, I've never really seen an armor in this game that was all that high in utility. Also, ACP isn't that big a deal, especially because most armors available to druids have little to no ACP.

> Divine gestures is really risky for me. At least if there is even a slight chance you get imprisoned\ambushed, and put on an armor to makew it impossible for you to move, the risk is way too high.

Not really sure what this means. Why are you wearing armor when imprisoned or ambushed? I guess that, in the imprisoned case, someone could put armor on you to reduce your casting ability, but it's so easy to remove casting ability in a prison context without exploiting flaws in some way, especially because even the strongest armor still allows for some casting (and now I await the obscure combination of armor and abilities that can hit 100% ASF). I have literally no idea how an ambush applies here. Like, you just have armor on all the time inexplicably, and then take it off when you get into combat? Don't do that if you take this flaw, or even if you don't take this flaw.

> Bravado is a pretty risk flaw for a meleer. The issue lies in the fact that I have to roleplay the flaws of my character, and to me it sounds like this flaw overwrites the autoconservation instinct we all have. You can't run from anyone, and if we have to roleplay it, it sounds like you are going too heavy on the barbarian sake of things, and actually suggesting the dm another way to wipe you.

I've gotta think that flaws still allow for agency. You should maybe fight sometimes when you'd otherwise run, but it'd be insane to think that this operates on the level of absolutely forcing your hand.

Level 3: Assume supernatural ability (they are different from ex abilities, did I understand well?)

Supernatural abilities are indeed distinct from extraordinary abilities. I would still tend away from this feat, however. Extraordinary special qualities, which can be gained through enhance wild shape, cover most of what you'd want from supernatural abilities, and what remains is pretty broken. Either way, ASA has form changing as a prerequisite, so you can't pick at third anyway, and it doesn't increase form versatility that much because you have to pick a particular ability.

[Endarire]

Unless you're operating under things I don't yet understand, a Dire Wolf (a Large, 6HD creature) and a Deinonychus (a Large 4HD creature) should not be available to L5 Druids.

[eggynack]

Unless you're operating under things I don't yet understand, a Dire Wolf (a Large, 6HD creature) and a Deinonychus (a Large 4HD creature) should not be available to L5 Druids.

Accurate on the wolf. Also had dire barracuda in the wrong spot alphabetically, which is less important but now also changed. Deinonychus is medium though.

Edit: Huh, it's medium in the SRD and large in the actual monster manual.

Double-edit: Checked the errata, because that's usually the source of this kinda inconsistency, and it was, in fact, the source of the inconsistency. Creature's medium, it turns out.

[ATHATH]

If you're worried about carrying capacity, may I recommend picking up a Talisman of the Disk?

[Sergio]

Supernatural abilities are indeed distinct from extraordinary abilities. I would still tend away from this feat, however. Extraordinary special qualities, which can be gained through enhance wild shape, cover most of what you'd want from supernatural abilities, and what remains is pretty broken. Either way, ASA has form changing as a prerequisite, so you can't pick at third anyway, and it doesn't increase form versatility that much because you have to pick a particular ability.

Okay thanks. I've got a really big issue in this moment: my Dm won't allow regional feats.

(First flaw) Improved initiative
(second flaw) Spell focus: conjuration
First talent: Augment summoning
(Human talent bonus): Aberration blood (?)
Third talent: natural bond ?
Sixth talent: Natural spell

1) Suggestions for other feats?

2)Would it be a bad idea to go for master of many forms? And if you would advise for it, how should I replace my feats? I was thinking that maybe the right path is forsaking summoning. I could even renounce to a flaw if you think I've got too many feats.

3) And by the way, if I'm not taking assume supernatural ability, what would you suggest going for?

[Mr Adventurer]

Hearkening back to Draconic Aura feat from a while ago:

I don't think you can actually take the Vigor aura. It's exclusive to Dragon Shamans. The feat specifies which list you can choose from.

[Darrin]

I don't think you can actually take the Vigor aura. It's exclusive to Dragon Shamans. The feat specifies which list you can choose from.

This is an old (and unresolvable) argument. The feat text contains a page reference. Pages 86-87 do indeed contain a list of auras, but nothing in the text explicitly says that draconic auras from other sources are not available for selection. Some might claim that the "Rules don't say I can't!" is leaning a little too far into the WrongFun end of Calvinball. Others might claim it's just sorta stupid that dragon shaman auras wouldn't be available, and the designers just kinda flubbed mentioning that this was their intention. It all boils down to "DM's Call" or "Whatever works best for your group."

[Nifft]

This is an old (and unresolvable) argument. The feat text contains a page reference. Pages 86-87 do indeed contain a list of auras, but nothing in the text explicitly says that draconic auras from other sources are not available for selection. Some might claim that the "Rules don't say I can't!" is leaning a little too far into the WrongFun end of Calvinball. Others might claim it's just sorta stupid that dragon shaman auras wouldn't be available, and the designers just kinda flubbed mentioning that this was their intention. It all boils down to "DM's Call" or "Whatever works best for your group."

IMHO the main issue is that the PHB2 class feature has the same name as the Dragon Magic feature.

The Dragon Magic feat says "(see page 86)", but then page 86 uses the same terminology & repeats the rules from the PHB2.

The Dragon Magic feat doesn't say you can only choose from the ones on page 86.

With the feature named the same thing, and no explicit prohibition about using Draconic Auras from the PHB2, it seems reasonable for a player to expect that the Draconic Auras in the PHB2 and the ones in Dragon Magic are all items on the same list.

But it doesn't say that explicitly, either, and the Vigor aura in PHB2 is a jump in power.

[eggynack]

Okay thanks. I've got a really big issue in this moment: my Dm won't allow regional feats.

(First flaw) Improved initiative
(second flaw) Spell focus: conjuration
First talent: Augment summoning
(Human talent bonus): Aberration blood (?)
Third talent: natural bond ?
Sixth talent: Natural spell

1) Suggestions for other feats?

Initiate feats are pretty nice to have. Y'know, like gatekeeper initiate.

2)Would it be a bad idea to go for master of many forms? And if you would advise for it, how should I replace my feats? I was thinking that maybe the right path is forsaking summoning. I could even renounce to a flaw if you think I've got too many feats.

MoMF is neat, but it's significantly weaker than straight druid. I dunno what it means for something like that to be a bad idea though. If you wanna focus super heavily on wild shape in spite of power loss, then that's not a ridiculous thing to do. Most things are weaker than straight druid. In any case, it's pretty easy to drop feats for it here. Improved initiative is already pretty mediocre, and the whole aberrant blood thing is a bit redundant if you have tons of other forms. As for giving up flaws, the loss of the higher power summoning feat does reduce the utility of feats somewhat. However, it's pretty inevitable that flaws are going to be more powerful than not-flaws, almost regardless of the optimization level of those feat choices.

3) And by the way, if I'm not taking assume supernatural ability, what would you suggest going for?

There's a bunch I have listed that haven't been crossed off the list yet. Initiate feats, craft contingent spell, various metamagic options, companion spellbond, and maybe a couple of others. You could also always double down on the form adding feat thing, picking up dragon at 12th, especially if you're considering MoMF otherwise. There's some utility to having always on will-o'-wisp and then spontaneously switching to some wacky dragon. Way less utility than it has on its own, but it's a good feat.

[Sergio]

Thanks a lot Eggy.

[Endarire]

Some Druid3 important spells I didn't notice in the guide:

-Girallon's Blessing
-Mass Snowshoes