Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

[liquidformat]

In the descriptions of animal growth and aspect of the wolf, you suggest the size increase of animal growth would not stack with wildshape. Why?

Because wild shape doesn't change your creature type, aspect of the wolf on the other hand does change your creature type.

[Thunder999]

Hi,

in the guide i found the following about the wild-shape:

The real goal is hitting 14 by level five (or 15 by level six, if you’re waiting for natural spell to start transforming), because that’s the maximum HD of a creature you can become at that level, and after that simple skill boosting will carry you through all levels.

But in the main rules i read that the max HD of a creature can not excced the level of the druid? So how is it possible that the max HD for a create is 14 instead of five for a lvl 5 druid?

You just need to boost your effective druid level for wildshape beyond your actual levels in druid.

[eggynack]

In the descriptions of animal growth and aspect of the wolf, you suggest the size increase of animal growth would not stack with wildshape. Why?

Because, to quote the spell animal growth, as well as a lot of other size changing magic stuff, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack." There is some debate about whether form changing magic like wild shape or polymorph qualifies here, as it could be considered a separate category of thing, but I am reasonably certain they do not stack. It's not as if the spells are talking about some weird specific category of spells called "size increasing effects" or something. It just says "magical effects that increase size". Wild shape is a magical effect that increases size, because it satisfies both prongs of that test (magical and size increasing), so they don't stack.

[danielxcutter]

I dunno if you left this out intentionally or not, but Races of Stone and Races of the Wild have some druid-friendly armor. Granted, druids aren't dependent on armor to boost AC, but I think they're worth mentioning, for the flavor if nothing else.

The MIC also has a couple sets of armor that explicitly let druids use them despite being made of metal, but to be fair said armor is probably "meh" at best.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I dunno if you left this out intentionally or not, but Races of Stone and Races of the Wild have some druid-friendly armor. Granted, druids aren't dependent on armor to boost AC, but I think they're worth mentioning, for the flavor if nothing else.

The MIC also has a couple sets of armor that explicitly let druids use them despite being made of metal, but to be fair said armor is probably "meh" at best.

The one armor i've found that i'd seriously consider over a Monk's Belt is the Icemail Armor from the Far Corners of the World article., though at 52k gp it's very much a mid-late game purchase.
Still useful, especially with Snowcasting.

[danielxcutter]

The one armor i've found that i'd seriously consider over a Monk's Belt is the Icemail Armor from the Far Corners of the World article., though at 52k gp it's very much a mid-late game purchase.
Still useful, especially with Snowcasting.

*checks*

Not bad, I guess. Though I was mostly thinking of flavor or early-game choices when I brought them up in the first place.

[Troacctid]

Skin of ectoplasmic armor is also druid-friendly, and can even be worn in wild shape, provided you're not in a large form. Doesn't take up your armor slot either, so you can still wear magic robes.

[danielxcutter]

Skin of ectoplasmic armor is also druid-friendly, and can even be worn in wild shape, provided you're not in a large form. Doesn't take up your armor slot either, so you can still wear magic robes.

These things are great... if you value an armor bonus over most other things, though to be fair for their cost they do a heck of a great job at it. A +8 armor bonus at a extremely low cost for a slotless item, but has a low maximum Dex and a ginormous armor penalty equal to non-masterwork plate. Can be replaced in various ways, particularly Greater Luminous Armor, and the -6 check penalty means stealth isn't even an excuse for preferring these over that spell, but if you don't have access to that spell and you don't plan on being the party scout, you could do a lot worse than this.

[Troacctid]

The armor check penalty isn't as big a deal when you can don or doff it as a standard action.

[danielxcutter]

The armor check penalty isn't as big a deal when you can don or doff it as a standard action.

Partly tr - oh, you said "isn't as big". Well, fair enough, but it does weigh against it heavily when it comes to, as mentioned yet again, Luminous Armor. There's also the factor of having a fairly low Dex cap, though it'll take a while to find forms that have lower AC with one than without it I suppose.

Speaking of which, I wonder if there are any other Psychoactive Skins that work good for Druids. I wonder if Skin of the Hero would be worth it - probably not, but the +3 enhancement bonus to all attack forms could be nice on the right Wild Shape form.

[shadowjsm]

so i think sanctum spell can be used to replicate the effect of a ring of the beast in a way that can stack with the ring and exceed max spell level(but not both at once).
sanctum spell increases the level of the affected spell by 1 for all purposes while in the casters sanctum(effectively everywhere with acorn of far travel and a helpful dm) and the spontaneous summoning feature says that a druid can lose a prepared spell to cast a summon natures ally of the same level as the lost spell with no mention of slot level. which meaning that a sanctum spell x level spell can be lost for SNA x+1 with no restriction on max spell level.
the ring of the beast allows the user to cast SNA x+1 instead of SNA x at the time of casting which doesn't interfere with the above. however due sanctum spell working on preparation and the ring applying on casting the two effects can't stack and exceed max spell level at the same time

[sleepyphoenixx]

so i think sanctum spell can be used to replicate the effect of a ring of the beast in a way that can stack with the ring and exceed max spell level(but not both at once).
sanctum spell increases the level of the affected spell by 1 for all purposes while in the casters sanctum(effectively everywhere with acorn of far travel and a helpful dm) and the spontaneous summoning feature says that a druid can lose a prepared spell to cast a summon natures ally of the same level as the lost spell with no mention of slot level. which meaning that a sanctum spell x level spell can be lost for SNA x+1 with no restriction on max spell level.
the ring of the beast allows the user to cast SNA x+1 instead of SNA x at the time of casting which doesn't interfere with the above. however due sanctum spell working on preparation and the ring applying on casting the two effects can't stack and exceed max spell level at the same time

The Ring explicitly doesn't let you cast a SNA you couldn't cast normally.
Sanctum Spell only applies its effect on casting, and when you've cast the spell you can obviously no longer sacrifice it for SNA.

[Endarire]

@eggynack
Arcane Hierophant with early entry tricks (like Druid2/Conjurer1/Druid+4/AH+X) seems spiffier than you credited it. Abrupt Jaunt, Augment Summoning, and casting from another list (including from Wiz items) is powerful, though whether it's worth 2 feats (Alternative Source Spell & Practiced Spellcaster) and a Wizard level is debatable. It's better at later levels, and something worth more consideration if you start at level 11+. Also, venomfire Fleshraker with wraithstrike to make all your super damaging hits into touch attacks is gooey good! (Add the feat Companion Spellbond if you want your animal companion to use wraithstrike and other personal spells-turned-touch at Close range for even more goodness!)

Also, to my present understanding, Blink Dogs can fly and move through walls via blink since they're incorporeal.

Illumian: I didn't notice it mentioned, but Aeshkrau lets you use your STR mod instead of your casting mod for the number of bonus spells you get. (Uurkrau is that way but for DEX instead of STR.) Useful if you maintain a high stat form via Wild Shape for long enough to use your bonus spells. For example, Wild Shape into a Dire Bear for 31 STR, have the Aeshkrau sigils, cast your buffs on yourself, your animal companion, or your party from your bonus spell slots, then Wild Shape into something else if you like. (Debatably, you can use darkness, no light, and similar to hide your Illumian sigils which each emit light as a candle.)

Share Spells: "Additionally, the druid may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid and her animal companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal)." Does this mean you can use animal growth on an animal companion that isn't of the Animal type, like a Magical Beast from Exalted Companion?

[eggynack]

@eggynack
Arcane Hierophant with early entry tricks (like Druid2/Conjurer1/Druid+4/AH+X) seems spiffier than you credited it. Abrupt Jaunt, Augment Summoning, and casting from another list (including from Wiz items) is powerful, though whether it's worth 2 feats (Alternative Source Spell & Practiced Spellcaster) and a Wizard level is debatable. It's better at later levels, and something worth more consideration if you start at level 11+. Also, venomfire Fleshraker with wraithstrike to make all your super damaging hits into touch attacks is gooey good! (Add the feat Companion Spellbond if you want your animal companion to use wraithstrike and other personal spells-turned-touch at Close range for even more goodness!)

I said that early entry is about equal to regular druid, and that sounds about right to me. I could theoretically detail the entry out more, but I was inclined to deemphasize the early entry stuff due to its wonkiness. Might be a thing worth doing.

Also, to my present understanding, Blink Dogs can fly and move through walls via blink since they're incorporeal.

The spell says you take half damage from falling and have a chance to be shunted out of walls so kinda sorta. Blink only makes you ethereal half the time, after all.

Illumian: I didn't notice it mentioned, but Aeshkrau lets you use your STR mod instead of your casting mod for the number of bonus spells you get. (Uurkrau is that way but for DEX instead of STR.) Useful if you maintain a high stat form via Wild Shape for long enough to use your bonus spells. For example, Wild Shape into a Dire Bear for 31 STR, have the Aeshkrau sigils, cast your buffs on yourself, your animal companion, or your party from your bonus spell slots, then Wild Shape into something else if you like. (Debatably, you can use darkness, no light, and similar to hide your Illumian sigils which each emit light as a candle.)

It's certainly interesting. Dunno why I didn't have it listed but it's probably worth it. Really weird ability because, as you imply, it can't exactly be counted on as a way to turn wisdom into a dump stat.

Share Spells: "Additionally, the druid may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A druid and her animal companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal)." Does this mean you can use animal growth on an animal companion that isn't of the Animal type, like a Magical Beast from Exalted Companion?

The exception to typing only applies if you're sharing spells, and sharing spells specifically means either casting a spell on yourself, in which case you face distance restrictions, and also hitting your companion, or turning a "you" targeted spell at your companion. Animal growth isn't "you" targeted, so you'd be reliant on the first provision. Which, of course, means the spell has to target yourself. Possible, with something like aspect of the wolf, but certainly not a cheap maneuver and the range limitation is decidedly... limiting.

Still haven't gotten around to looking at armor stuff. Should probs do so.

[SirNibbles]

The spell says you take half damage from falling and have a chance to be shunted out of walls so kinda sorta. Blink only makes you ethereal half the time, after all.

Ethereal creatures move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground, and material objects don’t block them (though they can’t see while their eyes are within solid material).
Ethereal - SRD

...you’re ethereal...
Blink- SRD

It even says later on in the Blink spell that you can move any direction, so you pretty much can fly.
_

One thing worth noting might be the Domain Druid 'house rule' from Unearthed Arcana, page 68:

HOUSE RULE: DRUID DOMAINS In my campaign, each druid may choose a single domain from the following list: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, and Water. The druid gains a bonus spell of each spell level, which may be used only to prepare a domain spell of that level (or of a lower level, if affected by a metamagic feat). The druid also gains the domain’s granted power, except as noted below. Druids who select the Animal domain or the Plant domain gain Skill Focus (Knowledge [nature]), since Knowledge (nature) is already a class skill for druids. A druid who chooses the Sun domain gains the ability to turn undead 1/day as a cleric of her level, and cannot perform a greater turning. —Andrew Finch
Unearthed Arcana, page 68

Picking up the Sun Domain to Turn Undead as a Cleric of your Druid level is simply insane, especially if you use that to qualify for other things, and it's obviously just a straight power boost compared to the already-powerful Tier 1 Druid.

Is it stupid? Yes. Could a DM possibly allow it if you're already playing a weaker variant of Druid, such as the one without Wild Shape or the one without Spontaneous Summoning (or both)? Maybe.

[Troacctid]

Ethereal creatures move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground, and material objects don’t block them (though they can’t see while their eyes are within solid material).
Ethereal - SRD

...you’re ethereal...
Blink- SRD

It even says later on in the Blink spell that you can move any direction, so you pretty much can fly.

Half the time you can fly. The other half you fall. Since you fall faster than you fly, you can't really get off the ground. You need greater blink if you want that kind of control over your blinking.

[eggynack]

It even says later on in the Blink spell that you can move any direction, so you pretty much can fly.

Yeah, I saw that, but that section seems to be written about the ethereal creatures you might find cause to interact with. But then also it sometimes refers to you directly. it's really weirdly written. Like, the spell is very explicit that you can't just walk through stuff with no issue, cause you're not full on ethereal, but then it's like, "As an ethereal creature you can totally walk through stuff." I'm inclined to think that the last section broadly centers around a sort of thing that you are not.

[Endarire]

Shadow Dragon: Draconomicon 191 seemingly has a more recent version than you listed, but the abilities are similar. The HD requirements are 7/10/13/16.

[eggynack]

Shadow Dragon: Draconomicon 191 seemingly has a more recent version than you listed, but the abilities are similar. The HD requirements are 7/10/13/16.

Huh. Weird.

[Endarire]

Having repeatedly read the Dragon Wild Shape and Exalted Wild Shape options, which feat do you believe is better? The main reasons I'd go EWS is for Blink Dog or Unicorn, especially since we're in a vampire-heavy and undead-heavy campaign. Blink Dog and Celestial Desmodu Hunting Bat are useful, but so are the Dragon forms. (I know I could use 2 feats to take each of these, but there are only so many Wild Shape forms I can use at a time.)

[eggynack]

Having repeatedly read the Dragon Wild Shape and Exalted Wild Shape options, which feat do you believe is better? The main reasons I'd go EWS is for Blink Dog or Unicorn, especially since we're in a vampire-heavy and undead-heavy campaign. Blink Dog and Celestial Desmodu Hunting Bat are useful, but so are the Dragon forms. (I know I could use 2 feats to take each of these, but there are only so many Wild Shape forms I can use at a time.)

I'd say dragon. Blink dog is an incredible form, but dragon just does so much stuff. Tons of immunities, vision modes, movement modes, weird abilities, it's just really strong. The question here is really whether that awesome teleport thing can compare with that wide variety of forms, and I don't think it does.

Edit: Just did the shadow dragon switch and it doesn't look like the move didn't change anything. Only thing I saw was that the MoF version lists it as "9/10 concealment" while draconomicon has it as "total concealment". I actually wrote it just as "concealment" originally for some reason.

[danielxcutter]

Pretty sure “9/10ths concealment” is a 3.0e term.

[eggynack]

Pretty sure “9/10ths concealment” is a 3.0e term.

Yeah, and the difference in writing might've come from an errata or update somewhere. It would've been kinda weird had past me just made the executive decision that 9/10's concealment definitely means concealment without referencing some source.

[Endarire]

What are your thoughts on Dragonmarks as well as Mark of the Dauntless for immunity to daze and stun?

[Troacctid]

One of the really nice things about dragonmarks is being able to use them as spell components for spells like summon marked homunculus, ray of retaliation, marked pulse, dragonmark demesne, and spell haven. Turns out, though, those are all sorcerer/wizard spells, not druid spells. Puts kind of a damper on the usefulness.

Aberrant Dragonmark, on the other hand, is nice in that it can be used in place of the normal feat prerequisite for Aberration Wild Shape.

[Endarire]

Illumian: Improved Sigil: Krau feat + Ring of the Beast = casting SNA spells 1 spell level above your normal max as per Heighten spell.

[danielxcutter]

Isn’t there also a combo that lets you spend Turn Undead uses to apply metamagic? If you’ve got a Sacred Exorcist dip and you don’t plan on using DMM *that* much, this might be more useful since you’re not tied down to one metamagic feat.

[Rebel7284]

Isn’t there also a combo that lets you spend Turn Undead uses to apply metamagic? If you’ve got a Sacred Exorcist dip and you don’t plan on using DMM *that* much, this might be more useful since you’re not tied down to one metamagic feat.

Naenhoon: Twice per day, the illumian can spend one or more turn or rebuke undead attempts as a swift action to add a metamagic effect to a spell she is casting, with no effect on the spell's casting time or effective level. She must have the metamagic feat whose effect she wants to apply. The illumian must expend a number of turn or rebuke undead attempts equal to the normal level adjustment of the metamagic feat (for example, it costs two turn or rebuke attempts to apply an Empower Spell effect). If she chooses to apply the Heighten Spell effect, it costs her one turn attempt per level that she heightens the spell, up to a maximum of 9th level.

You save a feat vs. just taking Divine Metamagic[Persistent Spell]. With only two uses, I expect both of them to be spent on Persistent Spell anyway so not being tied down to one metamagic feat doesn't matter terribly often. I guess occasionally extending a days/level spell? How many metamagic feats is your druid taking anyway? Since it costs a swift action, you can't use it on quicken outside of some really strange RKV gestalts.

I feel like the limitation of 2 spells might be more of a selling point for DMs since the idea of a high level druid with several turning pools and a night stick or twenty suddenly persisting dozens of spells is a little silly.

[danielxcutter]

I suppose it depends on how much you depend on metamagic. What do the component sigils do again?

[Rebel7284]

I suppose it depends on how much you depend on metamagic. What do the component sigils do again?

You have the same google I do

Hoon ("life"): +1 bonus on Wisdom checks, Constitution checks, and Wisdom- or Constitution-based skill checks.

Naen ("mind"): +1 bonus on Intelligence checks andIntelligence-based skill checks.