OOTS #1005 - The Discussion Thread

[rodneyAnonymous]

Has anyone else noted the similarities between the conversations both Roy and Durkon have had with vampires?

[DeliaP]

Well, the Vector Legion seemed to have stopped serious adventuring a while back (Tarquin talked about breaking his axe out of storage) but they still seemed to be higher level than the Order.... Just as a counterexample.

Yup. And they came close to getting trounced in a skirmish with the OOTS that they should have won handily. They had more and better firepower, more HP...pretty much more of everything except for recent experience actually working like a team. They bickered, squandered their resources and fought without any cohesive strategy.

Or on the other view: when V was out of the picture Tarquin showed himself capable of solo'ing the rest of the order (and even more when Malack joined in as he felt Tarquin was holding back even at that).

If it hadn't been for the sudden arrival of the (Deus Ex ) Mechane, Tarquin and Laurin alone seemed to have been able to defeat the order (having neutralised V sufficiently, while losing Miron) enough for Tarquin to be able to impale Roy on his own sword (through Elan) and the implication was a coup de grace was coming.

Then Tarquin and Laurin on their own stepped on to the Mechane and looked like they could have taken down everyone apart from V. The reason why V succeeded in the end is because of inside information about Laurin's powers and tactics which finally paid off.

In other words, at half, or even a third strength, the Vector Legion were trouncing the Order at almost every turn, is my interpretation of those strips. As for the fact that they didn't simply wipe the Order out: that was never Tarquin's actual goal, except at the very end when he had completely lost the plot (in both senses).

Anyway, the specific post I was responding to was about how high level retired adventurers are likely to be compared to active adventurers (and whether this had implications for the levels of the assembled High Priests). Whether they had good tactics (and frankly, I've known a fair number of active adventuring parties that bickered, squandered their resources and fought without any cohesive strategy ) or not, the point was that the Vector Legion are clearly higher level than the Order.

[sabremeister]

Courtesan?

Courtesan was the term acceptable to use in polite company, and implies a certain refinement of manner and variety of skills, kindof like a geisha. Cohort was the impolite term. ("Your date is a professional escort" vs "Your date is a whore")

[Cudbie Enniwun]

Cohort also used to be (in the late-medieval to rennaissance eras) a court-slang term for an upper class prostitute, particularly one who accompanied a noble to state events. So, yeah, definitely unfortunate implications.

That's "consort."

[Emperordaniel]

That's "consort."

Doesn't "consort" refer to the spouse of the ruling monarch (i.e. queen consort, king consort)?

[Hopeless]

Just a thought but what if Mr Scruffy is actually the earthly representation of the feline member of Shojo's pantheon?

What if Durkula's mistake is sending the bodyguard of Mr Scruffy down that mountain?

Has Shojo's pantheon already voted?

And wouldn't everybody else whose already voted (as in other than the Northern Pantheon) be able to send their bodyguards outside to check on the ushers?

[JonahFalcon]

The shocking twist: Banjo saves us all.

ALL PRAISE BANJO.

[Sky_Schemer]

In other words, at half, or even a third strength, the Vector Legion were trouncing the Order at almost every turn, is my interpretation of those strips.

Oh, agreed that the OOTS was outclassed, but when I see 928 for example, this should not even have been a fight.

What's going on here is that Meron was outsmarted and Laurin is completely out of her element. Even Malack was caught completely unprepared by Nale's ambush. Only Tarquin still had his head in the game.

This is the argument I am making: high level is just a measure of power level, and power itself isn't enough. If the years in retirement have turned you into a glorified bureaucrat, you are not going to be able to use that power as effectively. Overconfidence might even get you killed.

[Sky_Schemer]

So, IMO, it could be argued that a high level priest in the OotS world is about as likely to be a flabby, panicky time-server as it is that a 13th century French baron was a pencil-pushing bureaucrat unfamiliar with weapons and combat ... that is, "not very likely at all."

Even if you accept that argument, "that was then and this is now". These are arguably among the highest priests in their respective religions and several of them appear to be quite old. They may have been smiting enemies back in the day, but that does not mean they are ready to pick up a mace and walk into a dungeon tomorrow.

The mechanics of D&D do not separate combat statistics from level, but this is a story and as characters I just do not see this happening.

[foobar1969]

That's "consort."

I thought ConSort was an O(n^2) algorithm based on rabbits, turtles, and shrinkage.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Just a thought but what if Mr Scruffy is actually the earthly representation of the feline member of Shojo's pantheon?

What if Durkula's mistake is sending the bodyguard of Mr Scruffy down that mountain?

Has Shojo's pantheon already voted?

And wouldn't everybody else whose already voted (as in other than the Northern Pantheon) be able to send their bodyguards outside to check on the ushers?

They could, with a good enough teleportation spell. And that's even assuming the northern godmoot is not protected by spells and/or rules (on punishment of being smitten) about that sort of thing.

Both the Southern and the Western moots are held in entirely different locations from the northern one, and the only communication between the moots seems to be in the form of representatives that tell what the others voted. And I'm not even sure it's three-way communication, the northern meeting may just have the lead role this time around, hearing what the others voted, but not sending anything back.

And yes, Shojo's pantheon is the Southern one, it has already voted.

[Shoelessgdowar]

They could, with a good enough teleportation spell. And that's even assuming the northern godmoot is not protected by spells and/or rules (on punishment of being smitten) about that sort of thing.

Both the Southern and the Western moots are held in entirely different locations from the northern one, and the only communication between the moots seems to be in the form of representatives that tell what the others voted. And I'm not even sure it's three-way communication, the northern meeting may just have the lead role this time around, hearing what the others voted, but not sending anything back.

And yes, Shojo's pantheon is the Southern one, it has already voted.

I believe "the bodyguards of everyone who already voted..." would mean Wrecan and whoever the bodyguard(s) for the Western Pantheon's proxy happen to be. Both/All Three could safely exit the room and go check on things (the possibility of 1-3+vampirized Ushers made me rethink the safely premise).

A thought that I'm fairly sure has not come up, we know the staff has the Quickened Vampire Change Spell on it, and Durkula is a product of that spell, what if the spell is contagious (ie. Malack needed it, but Durkula being a product of it has the spell as part of his, and by proxy his children's, bites), so every Vampire Durkula created automatically raised in 3 minutes instead of 3 days, and the same for thier victims, and so on? That could definitely result it lots of Death and Destruction.

[Bubble181]

1. 13th century barons often *were* pencil-pushing bureaucrats. Or, more likely, court flunkies. Besides that, knights were more often than not more "mayor of a peasant village" than "super soldier resting in between big fights". Our modern day view of most leaders in the time being warriors/soldiers is completely and utterly wrong.

2. Consort is both the correct term for the partner of a monarch, and a derogatory word for a companion. I've never heard cohort used as such.

3. Why no love for the d10? It's a lovely die :(

[Bulldog Psion]

1. 13th century barons often *were* pencil-pushing bureaucrats. Or, more likely, court flunkies. Besides that, knights were more often than not more "mayor of a peasant village" than "super soldier resting in between big fights". Our modern day view of most leaders in the time being warriors/soldiers is completely and utterly wrong.

As late as the Second World War, a good portion of the German officer corps consisted of men of aristocratic families. The farther back you go, the more iron the rule becomes. A bunch of feudal fighting men are simply not going to risk their lives for someone who does not risk their life for them.

What you say is contrary to basically every one of the literally thousands of history books I've devoured over the course of my life.

2. Consort is both the correct term for the partner of a monarch, and a derogatory word for a companion. I've never heard cohort used as such.

Yes, cohort is never used for relationships. Which is why it would be funny but disastrous to refer to a D&D savvy S.O. as a cohort.

3. Why no love for the d10? It's a lovely die :(

Well, I've never met dice I didn't like, so I concur with you here too.

[DataNinja]

Well, I've never met dice I didn't like, so I concur with you here too.

Clearly you have never met my D20...

[GAAD]

Clearly you have never met my D20...

You mean the one that only rolls 2s and 3s for its owner but 16+ for its owner's opponents? Sorry I took it; would you like it back now?

[theNater]

3. Why no love for the d10? It's a lovely die :(

It's not platonic. It's functional, sure, but it's not elegant the way the d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20 are.

[DataNinja]

It's not platonic. It's functional, sure, but it's not elegant the way the d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20 are.

Personally, I prefer my large bag of d2s. They're of various designs, aesthetically pleasing, plus if they come up with bad numbers, I can simply spend them.

[GAAD]

Personally, I prefer my large bag of d2s. They're of various designs, aesthetically pleasing, plus if they come up with bad numbers, I can simply spend them.

Oh yes. I'll give you my entire collection of d2s for the privilege of handing you your cursed d20 back.

[Zelest]

By the way, it just hit me: by voting YES Tyr potentially gave Hel a strategic advantage. Oh, the irony

[Bulldog Psion]

By the way, it just hit me: by voting YES Tyr potentially gave Hel a strategic advantage. Oh, the irony

Yes, you're right -- he was too clever by half, wasn't he?

[eilandesq]

By the way, it just hit me: by voting YES Tyr potentially gave Hel a strategic advantage. Oh, the irony

Spoiler

Show

Not to mention The Dark One--destroying the world will automatically fulfill The Plan's main goal by starting things over in an environment where The Dark One has a voice and goblinoids will not be consigned to XP fodder status without The Dark One having something to say about it

In fact, what strategic advantage is Tyr talking about in the first place that would result from *not* destroying the world? IIRC Mr. Burlew hasn't clarified that (for whatever reason, including possibly simply that no one asked the question).

[theNater]

Spoiler

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Not to mention The Dark One--destroying the world will automatically fulfill The Plan's main goal by starting things over in an environment where The Dark One has a voice and goblinoids will not be consigned to XP fodder status without The Dark One having something to say about it

Spoiler

Show

The main goal is for the Dark One to blackmail the gods into doing whatever he wants. The world ending and being remade is an acceptable fallback goal.

In fact, what strategic advantage is Tyr talking about in the first place that would result from *not* destroying the world? IIRC Mr. Burlew hasn't clarified that (for whatever reason, including possibly simply that no one asked the question).

Tyr is talking about yielding strategic initiative to the Snarl; waiting for it to start destroying the world makes them slightly less likely to achieve victory over it than simply claiming that victory now.

[Dalek Kommander]

As late as the Second World War, a good portion of the German officer corps consisted of men of aristocratic families. The farther back you go, the more iron the rule becomes. A bunch of feudal fighting men are simply not going to risk their lives for someone who does not risk their life for them.

What you say is contrary to basically every one of the literally thousands of history books I've devoured over the course of my life.

Many of the greatest military leaders in history came from aristocratic families, and those are the sort of "great men" that history books love to focus all of their attention on, but for every Great Man of History who slept in his plate mail and spent every waking moment engaging in battle or preparing for the next one, there were a thousand second cousins twice removed who rarely protected their torso with anything sturdier than a velvet doublet, and spent most of their time tending to the boring administrative tasks that "Sir Great Man of History" didn't have time for, because he was laying siege to some castle on the other side of the English Channel.

Unless, of course, you're the Mongols...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqcVro-3f4I

[Reddish Mage]

Many of the greatest military leaders in history came from aristocratic families, and those are the sort of "great men" that history books love to focus all of their attention on, but for every Great Man of History who slept in his plate mail and spent every waking moment engaging in battle or preparing for the next one, there were a thousand second cousins twice removed who rarely protected their torso with anything sturdier than a velvet doublet, and spent most of their time tending to the boring administrative tasks

History books? Not to mention literature, pop fiction, and a semi-obscure set of table games with weirdly shaped dice I'm sure no one's heard of.