Dreamscarred Press - Path of War Expanded! (Thread VII)

[Andreaz]

Well, I'm a fan of Harbinger with dark presence and the step up line. Claim target tries to 5-ft away? You get to stab them before they move, then 5-ft after them and stab them again. Perfect counter to reach fighters.

Similarly, dip Harbinger on a warder to lock people out of withdraw/5ft step in the zone of nope. Also int synergy

Dipping zealot on a warlord can let you seriously abuse Tactical Assistance (cha mod as your aid another bonus)

that's step up and strike, right?
sadly, harbingers have no AoOs to speak of.

[Vhaidara]

Dex builds are great on harbingers. Start with a level of inspired blade swashbuckler to grab your dex to damage at level 1 (finesse and focus with rapier for free, take fencing grace), or dip a level of vigilante stalker for killer's implements.

Hell, dip warder on a Harbinger focused build. Boom, int based AoOs, right there.

[Nyaa]

So I re-read Elemental Flux...

There are following maneuvers that don't use weapon damage:

Energy Jolt (2) - 3d6 30ft touch attack, +1d6 per animus (max 3)
Lance of Power (3) - 5d6 30ft line, +2d6 per animus (max 5)
Energy Spark (3) - When you make an attack, you may spend a swift action to provoke AoO. You may also spend two points of animus to provoke an additional AoO.
Arcane Torrent (4) - 6d6 60ft force, not augmentable
Elemental Drive (5) - 9d6 30ft touch attack, not augmentable
Elemental Destruction Ring (6) - 12d6 20ft burst, +1d6 per two animus (max 16)
Zephyr Flux (8) - 14d6 120ft range 30ft burst, +2d6 per animus (max 3)
Strike of Elemental Devastation (9) - 150 30ft touch attacks, +10 per animus (max 3)


Is Elemental Destruction Ring augmentation a typo? Why doesn't it increase DC?
Why does Zephyr Flux inflict only half damage on secondary targets when regular chain lightning does full damage?
What does "each ray is augmented separately" mean and what is maximum augmentation of Strike of Elemental Devastation? 3 animus for 180 damage total? 15 animus for 300 total?

[Andreaz]

Each beam can take the full augmentation, capped separately.

[Nyaa]

Does Ride the Current (Current 4) negate the attack if initiator ends movement out of attacker's reach or behind total cover?

I think Flowing River (Current 7) should require line of effect to prevent it from being used against things like say scrying, unless it's intended use.

[MilleniaAntares]

The Omen Rider's immunity to fatigue class feature may not be so useful without the addition of an immunity to not eating/drinking/sleeping.

Edit: More importantly, it's almost impossible to run for 10 minutes straight, even for a horse with Endurance. I suggest changing it to a hustle.

[The-Mage-King]

Hey there. Dropping in because I'm working on an Aegis using the Initiator's Soul-line customization, and I wanna be clear about somethings.

1. The maneuvers gained from them can only be used while the Astral Suit is active, right?
2. What happens to the pp gained from Sleeping Goddess maneuvers by the IS customization? If I have three maneuvers from it, and they give a total of 4 pp, do I get those at all times, or only while my Astral Suit is active?
3. By changing customization, I can reconfigure my maneuvers known, yes? Does that mean I can select a new pair of disciplines each day?
4. What happens if a customization granting a maneuver is lost?

I think that's about it... Sorry if these have been asked before, but I didn't see a clear answer in the docs.

[MilleniaAntares]

1) All customizations of an Astral Suit (or its equivalent) only work when it is active. That means you're kind of boned in an anti-magic field, or if someone dispels your suit.
2) See above.
3) Only if you remove the customizations that give you non-Sleeping Goddess maneuvers first.
4) You lose that maneuver. Keep in mind that if you trade out enough customizations of a certain discipline, you will lose access to higher level maneuvers, and to any permanent maneuvers you gain through Advanced Study (though the feat will remain locked in place short of retraining).

[Chris Robin R2]

So, if I'm wielding a katana 2H'd as a Harbinger with Accursed Will and Katana Expertise, how much damage is it dealing? What about if I Power Attack? I'm a little confused on this one.

[Taveena]

So, if I'm wielding a katana 2H'd as a Harbinger with Accursed Will and Katana Expertise, how much damage is it dealing? What about if I Power Attack? I'm a little confused on this one.

Finessable 2h weapons have precedent. Accursed Will damage doesn't multiply. Katana Expertise does not allow you to add dexterity to damage. You do 1.5*str modifier + 1 * int modifier, as normal. Power Attack scales as it would for any 1h weapon wielded in two hands. Deadly Agility would change that to 1 * dex mod + 1 * int mod, because it does not increase for weapons wielded in two hands or decrease for weapons held in the offhand.

[Vhaidara]

So, if I'm wielding a katana 2H'd as a Harbinger with Accursed Will and Katana Expertise, how much damage is it dealing? What about if I Power Attack? I'm a little confused on this one.

Well, depending on your Harbinger level, it could be 2d6+1.5x Str mod, possibly +Int mod if you are high enough in Harbinger. Power Attack will give you +3 damage for every -1 you are taking to hit.

If you also have Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility, you are dealing 2d6+Dex mod, again with the possible + Int mod from Accursed Will. And your Power Attack returns are still 3 to 1.

[Chris Robin R2]

Thanks for that.

[angelpalm]

Some questions in regards to the mystic base class. Is mystic artifice meant to replace needing item creation feats? Sort of like a master craftsman feat as a class ability? I see that the animus class feature already gives you a caster level so I was wondering about this.

Also in regards to the gunsmoke mystic, you don't find the rapid reload feat a bit redundant when you seemingly can already reload any firearm as a free action using a resource that increases as combat progresses?

Unrelated to these previous question, you guys ever think about remaking the Battle Dancer class? I see people asking for a true unarmed initiator and I had already went about sloppily trying to make one myself. That being said, I see there is are full bab psionic/initiators for wisdom and intelligence based characters, you guys thinking of making one based on charisma? Maybe a warlord that gets some pseudo wilder powers? I don't think that there even is a full bab psionic base class as is, so this might be a welcome addition to fill that void.

[Mithril Leaf]

Also in regards to the gunsmoke mystic, you don't find the rapid reload feat a bit redundant when you seemingly can already reload any firearm as a free action using a resource that increases as combat progresses?

Do you really want to have to spend your limited pool of unique abilities every round on reloading, with the limit that sometimes you won't even have enough?

[MilleniaAntares]

Unrelated to these previous question, you guys ever think about remaking the Battle Dancer class? I see people asking for a true unarmed initiator and I had already went about sloppily trying to make one myself. That being said, I see there is are full bab psionic/initiators for wisdom and intelligence based characters, you guys thinking of making one based on charisma? Maybe a warlord that gets some pseudo wilder powers? I don't think that there even is a full bab psionic base class as is, so this might be a welcome addition to fill that void.

I currently run a steelfist commando warlord/rubato bard gestalt.

As long as you don't mind the stealthier aspects of the steelfist commando, both archetypes work rather well as a battle dancer, especially if you add in the Agile Dancer trait. You would also do well to trait in Mithral Current for the steelfist commando, and trait in Broken Blade for the rubato bard.

The only real issue is that they have to wear armor, but given that Perform (Dance) cares not for armor, you'll be fine making your acrobatics checks with Agile Dancer. Plus you can use that appearance-changing enhancement on your armor so it can look as gaudy and skimpy as you please.

[amberlink]

As a Harbinger, can you claim a creature that's already been claimed to get a maneuver back?

[MilleniaAntares]

As a Harbinger, can you claim a creature that's already been claimed to get a maneuver back?

Far as I recall, the answer is "no". That's an intended weakness of the harbinger.

[amberlink]

Far as I recall, the answer is "no". That's an intended weakness of the harbinger.

Huh, seems strange to me that maneuver recovery would get weaker as you go on then, since at level 1-3 you could just keep claiming it due to them no longer being claimed the next round

[Taveena]

Huh, seems strange to me that maneuver recovery would get weaker as you go on then, since at level 1-3 you could just keep claiming it due to them no longer being claimed the next round

You also have more maneuvers readied, though, and the big recovery part of maneuvers is going to come from dropped enemies, while now getting to use your Swift actions on boosts and counters instead of barely being able to keep them claimed.

[angelpalm]

Do you really want to have to spend your limited pool of unique abilities every round on reloading, with the limit that sometimes you won't even have enough?

Welp if you are reloading every round than good for you, that means you are attacking, meanwhile your "limited" pool of animus is building up by a minimum of 1 point and maybe an additional 2 points for that round depending on if you expending a counter/boost and used a strike to attack(spoiler alert, you did).

As far as battle dancer, yeah you can do a bunch of interesting things, IF you are running a gestalt campaign, but that isn't doing anything for the people that just want a single class to use in a regular game.

Also lol at people talking about full attacks being crazy, hell you can move and get four attacks with broken blade/riven hourglass in something like battle dragon stance and get your initiator mod plus either str/dex to damage on top of all those attacks. Then you can take the feat that lets you do all of that off a charge....

[Vhaidara]

As far as battle dancer, yeah you can do a bunch of interesting things, IF you are running a gestalt campaign, but that isn't doing anything for the people that just want a single class to use in a regular game.

That was actually mentioned. Steelfist Commando Warlord, and trait in Mithral Current (probably to replace Steel Serpent)

[angelpalm]

Oh yeah....in regards to the Elemental Glyph class feature, this doesn't affect the initiator does it?

[twas_Brillig]

Welp if you are reloading every round than good for you, that means you are attacking, meanwhile your "limited" pool of animus is building up by a minimum of 1 point and maybe an additional 2 points for that round depending on if you expending a counter/boost and used a strike to attack(spoiler alert, you did).

Also lol at people talking about full attacks being crazy, hell you can move and get four attacks with broken blade/riven hourglass in something like battle dragon stance and get your initiator mod plus either str/dex to damage on top of all those attacks. Then you can take the feat that lets you do all of that off a charge....

... When a mystic enters combat, she gains an animus pool equal to 1 + her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) at the start of her first turn, and adds one point of animus to her animus pool at the start of each turn thereafter. Her animus pool persists for one minute after the last enemy combatant is defeated or the encounter otherwise ends. At the end of any round in which the mystic initiates a maneuver (a strike, boost, or counter), she adds an additional point of animus to her pool. Certain abilities, such as some class features, maneuvers, and feats, require the mystic to expend points of animus to use. ...

(drawn from the google doc)

You only get one point of additional animus even if you use multiple maneuvers in a round. I think the language here could probably be clearer, since this has come up a few times. If you have a high wisdom score (say 22, middle-lowish level), you get 7 animus to start, and gain 1-2 animus a round. If a combat lasts 5 rounds, that's a budget of around 2.4-3.4 animus a round, 3.3-4.3 if it lasts 3 rounds. While you can use this to full attack until the cows come home, I don't know that it's the most entertaining strategy. Sadly, it probably isn't enough to support a full TWF build.

Oh yeah....in regards to the Elemental Glyph class feature, this doesn't affect the initiator does it?

In Pathfinder, you are your own ally. Although the sight requirement does mean you can't target yourself if you're invisible. :P

[Tuvarkz]

(drawn from the google doc)

You only get one point of additional animus even if you use multiple maneuvers in a round. I think the language here could probably be clearer, since this has come up a few times. If you have a high wisdom score (say 22, middle-lowish level), you get 7 animus to start, and gain 1-2 animus a round. If a combat lasts 5 rounds, that's a budget of around 2.4-3.4 animus a round, 3.3-4.3 if it lasts 3 rounds. While you can use this to full attack until the cows come home, I don't know that it's the most entertaining strategy. Sadly, it probably isn't enough to support a full TWF build.



In Pathfinder, you are your own ally. Although the sight requirement does mean you can't target yourself if you're invisible. :P

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qlj
Apparently you should manage some sort of self-vision when invisible.

[Llyarden]

Some questions in regards to the mystic base class. Is mystic artifice meant to replace needing item creation feats? Sort of like a master craftsman feat as a class ability? I see that the animus class feature already gives you a caster level so I was wondering about this.

I think what it's meant to do is make up for the fact that the Animus class feature doesn't actually give you a caster level to allow you to craft things.

...thing is, in Pathfinder you don't need to meet the minimum CL of an item to craft it; there's a specific FAQ on that subject, if I recall. Which means that Mystic Artifice, which imposes a restriction to that effect on you, makes you worse at crafting things than you would be without it, which somehow I suspect was not the intent of the ability as written.

Or am I missing something obvious about caster level restrictions somewhere?

[Elricaltovilla]

I think what it's meant to do is make up for the fact that the Animus class feature doesn't actually give you a caster level to allow you to craft things.

...thing is, in Pathfinder you don't need to meet the minimum CL of an item to craft it; there's a specific FAQ on that subject, if I recall. Which means that Mystic Artifice, which imposes a restriction to that effect on you, makes you worse at crafting things than you would be without it, which somehow I suspect was not the intent of the ability as written.

Or am I missing something obvious about caster level restrictions somewhere?

If you don't meet a requirement to craft an item it increases the DC by +5 for each requirement that you don't meet. This can add up quickly. In addition, you cannot craft Scrolls, Wands or Staves (any spell completion item really) without having a caster level. No, you can't fudge it. But Mystic Artifice lets you fudge having a caster level. So Mystics can be as good at crafting as wizards and other true spellcasters, despite not being able to cast spells.

It's the same with the Vizier.

[Llyarden]

If you don't meet a requirement to craft an item it increases the DC by +5 for each requirement that you don't meet. This can add up quickly. In addition, you cannot craft Scrolls, Wands or Staves (any spell completion item really) without having a caster level. No, you can't fudge it. But Mystic Artifice lets you fudge having a caster level. So Mystics can be as good at crafting as wizards and other true spellcasters, despite not being able to cast spells.

It's the same with the Vizier.

As far as I can see, all the basic rules say for scrolls, potions and wands is that you need to prepare/know the spell for prepared or spontaneous casters respectively, which the other bit of Mystic Artifice gets around, and I wasn't asking about that part (although I may not have made that clear; my apologies). I don't know of any magic item creation that requires a specific caster level except for items that add numeric bonuses to one thing or another (magic weapons, cloaks of resistance, etc), and those prerequisites can be fudged like normal.

EDIT: I just found the rule I was missing about reducing the caster level of preexisting items; this was what I was missing. Sorry for any confusion.

[amberlink]

If i take a martial tradition, can I apply it to more than one class? For example a base class and then Mage Hunter, What about for unorthodox method?

Don't know if it's too early to ask again, but still wondering about this question, something that would be useful to know soon

[angelpalm]

If you don't meet a requirement to craft an item it increases the DC by +5 for each requirement that you don't meet. This can add up quickly. In addition, you cannot craft Scrolls, Wands or Staves (any spell completion item really) without having a caster level. No, you can't fudge it. But Mystic Artifice lets you fudge having a caster level. So Mystics can be as good at crafting as wizards and other true spellcasters, despite not being able to cast spells.

It's the same with the Vizier.

So losing the mystic artifice class feature has no effect on being able to qualify for item creation feats but will make it harder/impossible to craft wands/potions/scrolls and the like, correct?

Also can we get clarification on the Blade Meditation feature? What exactly does it do? Also when you are granted maneuvers, you pick the maneuvers to be granted or is it from all the ones you know?

Still not sure if Elemental Glyph affects you since it states you target allies you see, and it seems to have a cap based off your initiation modifier. It does seem strange you could make a glyph to improve your allies vision but still remain unable to perceive things yourself.

[Swaoeaeieu]

So losing the mystic artifice class feature has no effect on being able to qualify for item creation feats but will make it harder/impossible to craft wands/potions/scrolls and the like, correct?

Also can we get clarification on the Blade Meditation feature? What exactly does it do? Also when you are granted maneuvers, you pick the maneuvers to be granted or is it from all the ones you know?

Still not sure if Elemental Glyph affects you since it states you target allies you see, and it seems to have a cap based off your initiation modifier. It does seem strange you could make a glyph to improve your allies vision but still remain unable to perceive things yourself.

You have your readied manouvers. at the start of combat you can pick two of them to start with, the rest are always given at random. I write them on a card, shuffle em arround and pick the top one each round.

Blade meditation resets the whole deal. Also does damage to everyone that attacks you.

You can glyph yourself. Allies include yourself.

At least thats what i took from the document, also how i play it on my gunsmoke mystic