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2015-09-27, 03:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Yes
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Re: Spells that simply shouldn't be at that high a level
I advise you to read the Sleight of Hand skill.
Ah, the famous strawman. Long friends we were. Lovers, perhaps. But it was not our fate to be together, you and I. So, I must take leave here. I give you my best wishes.
More seriously: a DM can do anything he damn well pleases. The monster he unleashed on you was not in the manual? Doesn't matter. The world is not the book. If the DM chooses to not enable fun gameplay at his table, he's not doing something right.
Hell, even homebrew, so long as everyone agrees, is 100% fair. Is it balanced? That's a case by case basis.
And, I never said, not once, "You should ignore expensive materials."
Who said anything about not following rules that others in the game are? And, as mentioned, it doesn't make you any more powerful, especially when you never used spells that required the requirement to begin with. But, only power gamers disagree with you.
Ah, yes, the Ad Hominem. Long friends...OK, I'll stop.
There is nothing difficult about entering data in to a data base either. Try and find someone who does that as a living and has high job satisfaction.
And, it is not more "challenging", but more "tedious" than tracking gp.
Hell, people even don't bother keeping track of other currencies, but just uses it as a portion of GP, if at all (1 CP is insignificant compared to >1,000 GP, and thus is often not worth consideration).
I keep track of every copper the PCs spend and regularly audit their sheets so they have the the legitimate amounts. And I have found pretty large discrepancies not because of cheating, but merely from mistakes in keeping track of it. Discrepencies as large as 100's of gp, and this group is very good with numbers and paying attention to detail. In any case, I'm going to keep following the rules on this and not waive over this mundane aspects for DM reasons that would take too long to explain and would be off topic.
And it takes demonsterably more time and effort to track individual spell components than GP. For both hard and digital versions.
Situation 1, Tracks just GP: action 1) finds out he needs to use x GP. Action 2) Get your character sheet out/pull it up. Action 3) Find a pencil, or move your curser to the appropriate section [scrolling portion of the digital version factored into action 2]. Action 4) memorize, or write down your current value. Action 5) Do maths. Action 6) Delete the old number. Action 7) Insert new number. Action 8) None, or add item to character sheet, depending on what's going on.
Situation 2, micro manages spell components: All of Situation 1, for buying the spell component. Then, all of situation 1, again, for when you use the spell component, but add +1 action for searching a list of other spell components between 2 and 3.
There, done. And before you say "Oh, consumables". Ask yourself, how often do you use consumables, and how often do you cast spells as a spell caster.
Ah, Strawma..right, I said I'd stop.
No one had said they were surprised others do this. Not a single person. People were only saying that they don't like it. And it's tedious, not difficult.
You just said you had a problem with power gamers, but I appreciate that you came around to seeing the light. Again, no one recommended cheating.
It's unreasonable to say that casters are overpowered while simultaneously ignoring many of the restrictions that go with casting. This is to say if you're applying houserules to change the game's balance, then you can't argue that the unaltered game is imbalanced from your own experiences.
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Then I'm glad we're in agreement.
The frustration comes from you, and people like you, conflating the terms powergamer, munchkin, cheater, and optimizer.
A player who simply marks off the necessary gp from his sheet when he casts such a spell when that's something his DM allows isn't cheating. Neither is he being a munchkin or even, necessarily, powergaming. He's working within his DM's (possibly ill-advised) houserules.
Most of the people invoking grod's law upthread were almost certainly confused and thought you meant you enforced -all- material components being tracked, which is indeed a stupid and ineffective ruling. Several others said quite plainly that they or their DM's expressly allowed them to save the paperwork and just mark off the appropriate amount of gp. You called all of them "power gamers" and apparently meant "cheaters." If you can't understand why that might ruffle some feathers, I don't know what to tell you.
If you mean cheater, say cheater. Maligning separate groups because of occasional overlap with a group you take issue with is a very quick way to alienate people.
I recognize that you're not accusing me of being at fault here (nor been a culprit in misunderstanding me), but I do want to make clear to everyone that understanding what's been written is important. In the future I'll strive to make a greater effort to be less argumentative, but it should certainly not be the case that after someone explicitly mentions something it's completely overlooked. And it should especially not be the case that they're at fault for upsetting anyone.Last edited by Sacrieur; 2015-09-27 at 03:27 AM.
[PF] HP Calculator - Fractional HP, now without math!
[PF] Initiator NPC Templates - Quickly applied maneuvers for DMs.
[PF] Initiator Balance Rule - A lightweight fix to balance casting and martial classes.
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2015-09-27, 03:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
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Re: Spells that simply shouldn't be at that high a level
Continuing this in the thread: Argument Thread.
Last edited by SangoProduction; 2015-09-27 at 04:16 AM.
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2015-09-27, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
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- Gainesville, GA
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Re: Spells that simply shouldn't be at that high a level
Can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly did.
If you mean cheater, say cheater. Maligning separate groups because of occasional overlap with a group you take issue with is a very quick way to alienate people.