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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Gotham, Season 2

    They can say all they want Jerome is not the Joker. They can also say they want to sell you the Gotham Bridge.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Surprise, surprise!
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Haven't seen the third episode yet, but I do agree with Pex.

    I disliked Jerome in first season specifically because he was a cast for the Joker. I don't like the idea of the Joker having origins and prefer his identity to be a mystery.
    I also disliked Jerome's laugh. That's too much. Too forced.

    If it wasn't for this laugh and again the idea that he's supposed to be young Joker, I think I'd like Jerome way more in these first two episodes of season 2. There are some flaws though. Like, he's getting way too much importance for the kid he is. It reminds me how Fish managed to make her way too easily in any situation. Or how Barbara does now (Is she seriously becoming the new Fish? She already was despicable, but it's going worse).

    He's an interesting character, just not the Joker.
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-10-06 at 07:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    I'd agree that Jerome is too obviously the Joker to be the Joker
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    I don't know what it is, perhaps that creepy smile and the end, but somehow I don't think we have seen the last of Jerome. Also, the ending was doubly on that department!

    I did like Alfred pulling out the SAS moves in defense of Bruce.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    They want their cake and eat it too. They want to use the Joker without having the Joker. I had preferred there was no Jerome. I liked in the first season there was no "Joker". The focus was on Penguin and minor on Riddler. The Joker is so overdone from every Batman incarnation on television, movies, and straight to video. Enough with the Joker already. Now they have Jerome, say he isn't the Joker, and have this episode as proof. I don't buy it. Jerome was the Joker even if he's not the Joker.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    For the record, the Joker is my favorite villain of all time. At his best he can be downright hilarious and scarily disturbing at the same time.

    But the show doesn't need Mr. J and Jerome always seems like Joker-lite. Not really all that funny, but trying too hard to be like the Joker.

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Jerome was the Joker even if he's not the Joker.
    I meditated on this for an hour and achieved Enlightenment
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2015-10-08 at 08:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    I mediated on this for an hour and achieved Enlightenment
    For you see in a way we are all the Joker - and yet none of us are.

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    I mediated on this for an hour and achieved Enlightenment
    You deserve an internet and a cookie.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Don't know about that but that one guy, Edward Nygma, might be The Riddler. Now, this theory might come as a shock to some of you but it just might be.

    But only "might be". Still too early to say. Seriously, isn't this the whole series?
    Last edited by Raimun; 2015-10-08 at 02:12 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Seriously though, why did they give Nygma Two-Face/Smeagol syndrome?

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    Don't know about that but that one guy, Edward Nygma, might be The Riddler. Now, this theory might come as a shock to some of you but it just might be.

    But only "might be". Still too early to say. Seriously, isn't this the whole series?
    What? No. That can't be. Nygma has already been called out as Riddle Man. Like, a ton of times. Surely that's going to be his villain name (I assume he's going to become a villain). It's just been set up too perfectly for him to be The Riddler, when he's already got this whole Riddle Man shtick going.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    And now I like Jérôme.
    Well, except for his forced laugh obviously, and it's bad enough for it to be his legacy, but... He's an interesting character.

    Barbara kinda sickens me. She had an interesting episode except for her very last scene, but... Seriously...
    She has seen Theo killing Sionis so he could control the others.
    She may know that Theo suggested to Jérôme and Robert to solve their problem through Russian Roulette.
    She may know that Tabitha executed Arnold when he got captured.
    She definitely knows that Theo tricked Jérôme.

    Don't tell me she trusts Theo one second or thinks she seduced him...
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    Don't know about that but that one guy, Edward Nygma, might be The Riddler. Now, this theory might come as a shock to some of you but it just might be.

    But only "might be". Still too early to say. Seriously, isn't this the whole series?
    Damn and here I thought he was going to be Calander Man
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    [QUOTE=Quild;19929823

    Don't tell me she trusts Theo one second or thinks she seduced him...[/QUOTE]

    I think she knows Tabitha was watching and is deliberately sowing discord between the pair of them. BTW anybody else getting as kind of Harley Quinn vibe from Barbara ?
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    I think she knows Tabitha was watching and is deliberately sowing discord between the pair of them. BTW anybody else getting as kind of Harley Quinn vibe from Barbara ?
    She's more likely to lose her ally.

    Definitely found her a touch of Harley Quinn and posted it somewhere else. Less crazy though, but that's totally why I mean't she had an interesting episode for once.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    And now I like Jérôme.
    Well, except for his forced laugh obviously, and it's bad enough for it to be his legacy, but... He's an interesting character.

    Barbara kinda sickens me. She had an interesting episode except for her very last scene, but... Seriously...
    She has seen Theo killing Sionis so he could control the others.
    She may know that Theo suggested to Jérôme and Robert to solve their problem through Russian Roulette.
    She may know that Tabitha executed Arnold when he got captured.
    She definitely knows that Theo tricked Jérôme.

    Don't tell me she trusts Theo one second or thinks she seduced him...
    Have you not noticed Barbs is an idiot with self destructive tendencies? Cuz I did. Thought it was pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2015-10-09 at 02:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    poke, poke, poke the unstable knife murdereeeerrrr!
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Alfred punches Selina across the mouth. Didn't expect that at all, that he'd do it and they would show it. It makes perfect sense why he sends her away from Bruce, but it is sad. It's emphasized later with her moping on the street losing her friend. She's becoming Cat Woman. I suppose she always has been the most sympathetic Batman villain. I don't read the comics, but I think she got redeemed into becoming a hero. She's marked as a hero in the DC deck building game.

    Anyway, they repeat an irksome trope. In recruiting new cops, they just had to show the female recruit box and punch out a man half-again her size and weight in muscles. To rub it in Gordon just had to express doubt in her ability so that when she does win it will show just how tough she is. You see it all the time. Anytime, everywhere, any tv show, any movie, when a female and male fight or spar the female always wins, with one exception. 90% of the time someone will smirk doubt the female can win beforehand, sometimes but not always the male doing the sparring. Agents of Shield has it too. May defeats Ward, even before he turned traitor. Bobbi defeats Mac and Hunter. Skye defeats Mac. This is why Alfred punching out Selina was so surprising. Dark Matter: Android and Three, Two and One in the pilot. In Gotham, the male recruits weren't shown fighting. They were just interviewed to express their good moral character. The female wasn't interviewed. She had to be shown she can knockout a male bigger than her.

    The exception: The male is the villain of the story fighting a female good guy who then needs to be rescued. Only after Ward turned villain was he able to defeat Bobbi and Skye in separate episodes. May still defeated him, but that was Plot Conclusion. In Gotham, Penguin kills the female candidate. Penguin kills the Elderly Woman who guarded the commissioner's daughter. He kills Fish. If the female is the villain, she will always have a scene defeating the male hero in a fight. It takes a female good guy to defeat the female villain by fighting. Technically Barbara did not beat up Gordon, but she tricked him into getting beat up. Leslie had to defeat her at the end of season 1.

    Edit: To clarify, it's not irksome that a female character defeated a male character. What's irksome is the female always defeating the male character in a fight or sparring match. That's the trope.
    Last edited by Pex; 2015-10-12 at 10:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Alfred punches Selina across the mouth. Didn't expect that at all, that he'd do it and they would show it. It makes perfect sense why he sends her away from Bruce, but it is sad. It's emphasized later with her moping on the street losing her friend. She's becoming Cat Woman. I suppose she always has been the most sympathetic Batman villain. I don't read the comics, but I think she got redeemed into becoming a hero. She's marked as a hero in the DC deck building game.
    In a city full of murderers and terrorists, she's a thief. Makes it easy for her to be on the "good enough" side of things.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Ideally, I think they should have introduced a handful of characters (of varying backstory) who all are "clearly" the future Joker, and then just not shown which one, if any, were right.

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    I liked the GCPD part. I do agree with Pex about the sparring thing, but of another hand, either you make girls strong and they say you that you forced it, either you make them not the strongest of a group and they say you that you represent weak female protagonists.
    What I mean, is: What do you think of her getting shot by Victor instead of being the one protecting the candidate of one or the two charging at Victor?

    Some lines were really obvious ("No Master Bruce, I expect you to run" and "I still go there" or something like that for the guy that tries to control his rage at the gun thing). It's interesting to know what motivates the recruits but I'm afraid they'll be a little shallow afterwards.
    We have the girl that knocks big guys (expert in close combat then?).
    We have the guy that comes from a bad neighbourhood and doesn't want to get into that.
    We have the guy that had his father victim of extortion and doesn't want that to happen again.
    We have the orphan expert in shooting who may have temper (it also may have been a joke).
    Hope they're not going to become #girl, #guy1, #guy2, #guy3.

    I like Zsasz even if he's quite far from what he should be for now (using guns rather than knife, not scarifying himself for each victim, henchman rather than solo serial killer).

    Now the Penguin part... I still can't bear Theo (it's nice for once to hate a male character, I was kinda worried that it seemed to me it was always female characters that I couldn't bear in some series. Fish and Barbara in Gotham, Skyler in BB, Lori in TWD, Mary Margaret and Emma in OUaT...). He sounds horribly fake, wrong...
    So he got Penguin's mother captured so he can blackmail Penguin (expected Penguin not to collaborate then?). He does that for two reasons: He wants the job done and he wants Penguin to attract attention.
    Well... He managed to make an enemy (I expect that the "You're going to be my destroyer" line isn't here for nothing, but since I did not get my "Penguin eats Fish" line, I'm not betting too much on this) for... Nothing.
    Theo already has the ressource to handle big operations.
    Killing two candidates? Easy thing for him, he got the mayor abducted and the deputy killed.
    Keeping the police busy? Come on, he created the Maniax.

    Oh btw, he happens to have that little blonde niece as a ward, whose age is something close of Bruce, and immediately got Bruce's attention. Seriously? Please tell me he recruited that girl to take a role.
    I have to say however that it was very well played to speak to Bruce about the lack of progress in the researches of his parent's murderer. But wasn't officially that Mario Pepper guy the responsible for this? I thought the file was closed and only Jim was looking for more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    Have you not noticed Barbs is an idiot with self destructive tendencies? Cuz I did. Thought it was pretty obvious.
    Well, that's not necessarily something she makes in a conscious way. She's smart in her way, she should realized she's played at.

    Quote Originally Posted by The New Bruceski View Post
    In a city full of murderers and terrorists, she's a thief. Makes it easy for her to be on the "good enough" side of things.
    Which makes it pitiful that she killed Reginald in Gotham.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Quild View Post
    I like Zsasz even if he's quite far from what he should be for now (using guns rather than knife, not scarifying himself for each victim, henchman rather than solo serial killer).
    I believe they showed that he is doing the scarification, he's just always in concealing clothes. I remember there being a scene with him early on carving a notch into himself after killing someone. I expect that at some point he's going to be left without an employer, and forced to "entertain" himself.

    As to the Penguin/Theo thing, the one thing that annoys me about that is that Penguin, a very memorable man masked or not, decides to do some kills personally. He's the self-proclaimed "King of Gotham" and he can't outsource? Unless it was part of the agreement with Theo, in which case it could have been clearer.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    Ideally, I think they should have introduced a handful of characters (of varying backstory) who all are "clearly" the future Joker, and then just not shown which one, if any, were right.
    This is pretty much exactly what they're doing.

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    This season has repeated the same mistake of last season that keeps me from becoming a full fan of this show. I really dislike these nobody villains being able to push the real ones around. Last year it was Fish, and this year, its this idiot Theo controlling the Penguin. The real Penguin would tell him where to get off, and make sure it happened. But ABC, they think they know more than DC and have to invent their own villains...this Theo is a nothing, and having him around for full year is just going to make sure this show stays a loser.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MikelaC1 View Post
    This season has repeated the same mistake of last season that keeps me from becoming a full fan of this show. I really dislike these nobody villains being able to push the real ones around. Last year it was Fish, and this year, its this idiot Theo controlling the Penguin. The real Penguin would tell him where to get off, and make sure it happened. But ABC, they think they know more than DC and have to invent their own villains...this Theo is a nothing, and having him around for full year is just going to make sure this show stays a loser.
    I think the whole point of the show is that these aren't the fully developed out versions of the villains (and heroes) we all know from the comics.

    Sure, comic!Penguin would have already found Theo's weakness, revealed Theo's crimes to the public through a reporter he has on retainer, shrugged when his mom died, and ate a snack while watching Theo's arrest on the news.

    But this is a young Penguin, before he has these connections when he's just starting out. He's ruthless, but not as heartless or as cunning as he eventually becomes. I think that's a bit of a strength actually, and wish they would remember that when handling some of the less subtle characterizations (looking at you, Nygma).

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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MikelaC1 View Post
    This season has repeated the same mistake of last season that keeps me from becoming a full fan of this show. I really dislike these nobody villains being able to push the real ones around. Last year it was Fish, and this year, its this idiot Theo controlling the Penguin. The real Penguin would tell him where to get off, and make sure it happened. But ABC, they think they know more than DC and have to invent their own villains...this Theo is a nothing, and having him around for full year is just going to make sure this show stays a loser.
    I think you meant FOX there.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowerbird View Post
    As to the Penguin/Theo thing, the one thing that annoys me about that is that Penguin, a very memorable man masked or not, decides to do some kills personally. He's the self-proclaimed "King of Gotham" and he can't outsource? Unless it was part of the agreement with Theo, in which case it could have been clearer.
    He's also been shown to be an emotionally unstable man who resorts to violent murder via knife to relieve stress. And his moms situation is prolly stressful.
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    Default Re: Gotham, Season 2

    What annoys me about Penguin is that he has most if not all of the gotham criminal underground at his disposal, while this upstart wanna be kingpin prick has what? His psycho sister. Just kill him.

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