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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilary Moon Murphy View Post

    Like others, I still don't much see the connection between the call of "Leeroy!" and Parson's great plan.
    Well, it's the warlord's name too!

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0027.html

    Great comic, I'm excited to see what happens after the buildup to an actual battle. Woo!
    Last edited by Big_Robot; 2007-05-21 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by mport2004 View Post
    Who is Leeroy and why is it funny?

    Welcome to the Internet. First day? :D

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    funny,
    i love erfworld, with its references to World of warcraft, and a vampire with the same name as my buddies cat. sadly he doesnt read erfworld so he will never see the humor of this joke

    and for all of you who dont know leeroy jenkins is a charecter on world of warcraft a mmo who took a video of being suicidal and entered the realm of legends.
    Last edited by sneakysneaky; 2007-05-21 at 05:50 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Mr Wizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    Of all the stupid videos I have ever seen from WoW I have no clue as to why that one became famous. Here's another view from that same event:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_PTI...elated&search=

    It became famous because at that point (and probably even still) going on guild raids had become boring, because every guild had "rules and regulations" on everything to equipment load out, long drawn out strategies, treasure allocation, heirarchies and what have you. Playing the game had become extremely boring and many felt had become a job unto itself.

    The event (which was staged) made fun of such things, and the metagaming of the guilds. Hence, Leeroy Jenkins became the symbol of playing for the sake of fun, and ignoring the boring old "Maximize Treasure Reward Allocation" players.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    I just LOVE panel 9.
    The above post made a lot more sense in my head.

    Epic avatar by Mr. Saturn. Thanks Mr. Saturn!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Idless View Post
    I still don't get his tactic :(


    If you're not a wargamer, that's to be expected. Prepare for geekiness galore. :)

    As I understand it, Parson is stacking four or five game rules that are individually sensible and innocuos and making a situation in which he can attack forever without fear of losing units. This is the exploit he's come up with.

    First, he places his units in terrain where the large majority of his opponents forces can't reach him at all. He's also holding two-third of his units in reserve as defenders.

    Second, he's using warlords to fine-tune his targetting, so he isn't wasting attacks on crap units. This is a much bigger deal than it sounds.

    Third, he's using very fast, long-range units to race in, attack a great deal, and then retreat to his "safe spot". This is a key part of the exploit. He gets to attack at full power, the other side doesn't.

    Fourth, since he's able to fine-tune his targeting, (see two above) he can retreat at will. This is HUGE, since dwagons apparently have a lot of hits and can take quite a beating. Thus they can do a lot of damage by killing stacks and then retreat.

    Fifth, once he's used all his attack units and has retreated with them beaten into barely ambulatory pulp, leaving masses of death in his wake, they are all instantly and completely healed the next morning and he can do it all again. Forever!

    Sixth, he has more move than his victims do. He can engage and retreat at will. And the autoheal at dawn gives him an infinite supply of hitpoints.

    Its a really ugly thing he's got going on. :)

    Unless Ansom can pop out something unexpected (very possible) Parson can grind him into oblivion using this. Parson discovering that he also has better battlespace awareness was just icing on this yummy cake of whoopass.


    Ansom is in trouble, unless there's something we don't know. Really the only way I can see for Ansom to beat what Parson is doing is to charge Gobwin Knob full tilt and try to topple the city before the party platter of doom kills him.
    Roy Greenhilt: All leaders should aspire to his greatness!

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by erewhon View Post
    Unless Ansom can pop out something unexpected (very possible) Parson can grind him into oblivion using this. Parson discovering that he also has better battlespace awareness was just icing on this yummy cake of whoopass.
    1. The plan, in large part, depends on Ansom's flying units being out of position. Thus, they are not available to counter-attack. This factor goes away next turn.

    2. The Dwagons will be needed at Gobwin Knob, not raiding outside it. Thus Parson's plans to bring the dwagons back to the Capital next turn.
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Depending on the position of Ansom's fliers at the start of next turn, Parson might have another trick up his sleeve. A shifting column of Dwagons carefully managed could fly back to gobwin knob while strafing units in ansom's column along the way.

    They would arrive shot all to hell, but would heal at dawn anyways, so no loss as long as no units were killed. Something like ...

    | <---ansom's column
    |
    |
    | * <--Dwagon flights
    | * *
    | * *
    | * *

    Deployed in a dual column, wounded dwagons could be traded into the far column and warlords switch out fresh for the injured...the wounded are screened by the fighting units who don't stop for anything, they just keep attacking until they need to shift and join the other column.

    Depending on terain and the exact needs of movement it might be possible...if not, and Gobwin knob is too far...then they will just be returning home fast to avoid being caught in the open by too many.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    i like his soda can, "your brand here", good stuff.
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by erewhon View Post
    Fifth, once he's used all his attack units and has retreated with them beaten into barely ambulatory pulp, leaving masses of death in his wake, they are all instantly and completely healed the next morning and he can do it all again. Forever!
    Once the gwiffons are back he is in for problems. Jillian was able to beat a dwagon one on one. GB can not affford to lose units, they are vastly outnumbered, and that is the beauty of this ruse. The next day he will use his intel to get the best way home (send most dwagons on a direct route while each warlord will take a full stack to destroy targets of opportunity.

    Of course, that is if everything goes according to plan. I can't wait to see the teddy bears have it.
    Last edited by teratorn; 2007-05-22 at 08:05 PM.
    Avatar: ruthless Parson (Erfworld).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by SirEdward View Post
    Consider the inversion however. Leeroy and crew in WoW were slaughtered by dragon-like creatures flying all over the place. Perhaps it is an incantation that spells doom to land based combatants.
    Yes, they are somehat reptilian and they hatch from eggs, but having passed through that room uncounted times myself I think it's safe to say that those creatures are much more like Vinnie's bats than the dwagons.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    What I can say *Leeeeeeeeeeroy!!!!!!!!!*. Time for battle, finally. And Vinny in big truble indead, page 47... Bat was destroyed on purpose. Scouts must be eliminated first for proper slotary%)

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    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    Once the gwiffons are back he is in for problems. Jillian was able to beat a dwagon one on one.
    True; we've seen (12/3) that a gwiffon is powerful enough to put the bite on a blue dwagon -- while it might not win one-on-one with a less powerful rider, Ansom's numerical superiority should compensate for that.

    One possible source of trouble: Parson's initial results might cause Stanley to get overconfident and greedy, leading him to do something stupid (e.g. ordering an attempt to hit Ansom's location and get the Arkenpliers) that would interfere with the dwagons' getting clear before Ansom's air cover returns.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Can the bats run away? There's no one there to direct them, I thought they had to fight?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Wizard View Post
    It became famous because at that point (and probably even still) going on guild raids had become boring, because every guild had "rules and regulations" on everything to equipment load out, long drawn out strategies, treasure allocation, heirarchies and what have you. Playing the game had become extremely boring and many felt had become a job unto itself.

    The event (which was staged) made fun of such things, and the metagaming of the guilds. Hence, Leeroy Jenkins became the symbol of playing for the sake of fun, and ignoring the boring old "Maximize Treasure Reward Allocation" players.
    Makes sense. I was in a big raiding guild myself and had gotten pretty fed up with the whole thing. I quit playing before i got to finish writing this project and got so bored that I didn't even bother using the expansion beta test invite they sent me.

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    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikZ View Post
    Can the bats run away? There's no one there to direct them, I thought they had to fight?
    True; they can't run away for three reasons: 1)They're unled (unless Vinnie's link to them counts) and therefore auto-attack (as you point out), 2)Doombats are slower than dwagons, and 3)They're off-turn.

    Even so, they should be able to engage in tactical ("in place" on the strategic map) evasive maneuvers.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-05-22 at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    True; they can't run away for three reasons: 1)They're unled (unless Vinnie's link to them counts) and therefore auto-attack (as you point out), 2)Doombats are slower than dwagons, and 3)They're off-turn.

    Even so, they should be able to engage in tactical ("in place" on the strategic map) evasive maneuvers.
    The only smart action for a small stack of bats when faced with dwagons would be to wun away, but without a warlord they have to fight, so I think that Vinnie's scouting abilities must include some control as well. It would make them a lot more valuable. Does a controlled bat count as a warlord? Not certain.

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    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Vreejack View Post
    The only smart action for a small stack of bats when faced with dwagons would be to wun away, but without a warlord they have to fight, so I think that Vinnie's scouting abilities must include some control as well. It would make them a lot more valuable. Does a controlled bat count as a warlord? Not certain.
    Another possibility is that doombats can detect enemies beyond the range at which they are forced (if unled) to engage.

    In either case, it only helps them on scouting flights during their own turn. If a dwagon encounters them during Stanley's turn, they still can't get away (the dwagons can close to forced-engagement range, and anyway the dwagons are faster).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    Once the gwiffons are back he is in for problems.
    Maybe. :) We'll see. Parson was sounding awfully confident when Wanda was freaking out at him. He doesn't seem the sort to succumb to wild optimism.

    He's got an exploit. :D

    Jillian was able to beat a dwagon one on one.
    Very true. Jillian is also so dangerous that Wanda wouldn't leave her a pair of chopsticks, for fear she'd solo an army.

    But there's only one Jillian, and she's standing right next to the Arkenpliers, with Wanda's wiles foremost in her confused little mind. :D

    Ansom may be getting less use of those Archons than he hopes.

    GB can not affford to lose units, they are vastly outnumbered, and that is the beauty of this ruse.
    Correct. Since Parson can move the dwagon deathstar a LONG LONG way every day, for Ansom's crew to find him would take a long time every day. Heck, it is quite possible Parson'll be able to use his superior move to attrit Ansom's airpower completely, retreating just enough to suck them over terrain then turning around to attack.

    Battlespace awareness combined with powerful, fast units = Parson wins an attrition battle as long as he doesn't screw up his manuever. The deathstar formation and terrain exploit are just gravy. :)

    Plus, what God Mode is Parson mulling over?

    The next day he will use his intel to get the best way home (send most dwagons on a direct route while each warlord will take a full stack to destroy targets of opportunity.
    A solid option. :) If Parson is able to cripple Ansom's seige, it might even be the best move, and attack with the dwagons from inside the best fortifications on the planet. :)

    Of course, that is if everything goes according to plan. I can't wait to see the teddy bears have it.
    Gonna be a lot of dead teddy's, I expect. :D
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Good stuff so far--gotta love the obvious references :D

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    The last panel, officially has me hooked on Erfworld.
    Avatar by Abardam.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    It looks to me like Parson wants any survivors to report that Leeroy Jenkins was in fact leading the charge. Why he is doing this I'm not sure of. I think he just wants to give some cunfusing and misleading intel to the the Coalition. Since they already have limited intel on the battlefield, and presumably limited manpower/ability to process intel, this can create a minor disruption in Ansom's plans and leave him unsure of Wnda's true power. (*Ansom wonders if she can really ressurect the warlords or just uncroak them?)

    On Jillian and the Gwiffons: She's clearly one of the most powerful units on Ansom's side. Gwiffon's are also apparently powerful, since a Gwiffon bite made a Blue Dwagon cry out in pain and enabled Jillian to kill it. But the blues are not the most powerful Dwagons, and Jillian was immediately captured after killing that one blue Dwagon (with assistance). Against an entire flight of Dwagons, I don't think she's going to do and more than she's already done. But it is impressive that she can survive a claw and a bite from a red Dwagon. (Look at the last panel)

    On Archons: I doubt they are much more powerful than Dwagons. If the Arkendish (see post 7) can control Archons, and the Arkenhammer can control Dwagons, it seems unlikely to me that the Archons are any more powerful than Dwagons. Even if they can teleport, and probably throw lightning or something like that, they are probably only the second most powerful units in the game, and there appears to be only 3 of them in the battle.
    Last edited by BoneLord; 2007-05-24 at 12:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by BoneLord View Post
    It looks to me like Parson wants any survivors to report that Leeroy Jenkins was in fact leading the charge. Why he is doing this I'm not sure of. I think he just wants to give some cunfusing and misleading intel to the the Coalition. Since they already have limited intel on the battlefield, and presumably limited manpower/ability to process intel, this can create a minor disruption in Ansom's plans and leave him unsure of Wnda's true power. (*Ansom wonders if she can really ressurect the warlords or just uncroak them?)
    I think he was just amusing himself with the "Leeroy Jenkins" battle cry (from the (in)famous video where the name originated).

    On Jillian and the Gwiffons: She's clearly one of the most powerful units on Ansom's side. Gwiffon's are also apparently powerful, since a Gwiffon bite made a Blue Dwagon cry out in pain and enabled Jillian to kill it. But the blues are not the most powerful Dwagons, and Jillian was immediately captured after killing that one blue Dwagon (with assistance). Against an entire flight of Dwagons, I don't think she's going to do and more than she's already done. But it is impressive that she can survive a claw and a bite from a red Dwagon. (Look at the last panel)
    Obviously, the dwagons captured her alive on purpose -- if they wanted to croak her, it would have been trivial (just dropping her from that height would presumably be sufficient). As I noted before, that's a slight bit of flexibility in the "unled units must attack non-friendly adjacent units" rule.

    On Archons: I doubt they are much more powerful than Dwagons. If the Arkendish (see post 7) can control Archons, and the Arkenhammer can control Dwagons, it seems unlikely to me that the Archons are any more powerful than Dwagons. Even if they can teleport, and probably throw lightning or something like that, they are probably only the second most powerful units in the game, and there appears to be only 3 of them in the battle.
    I'm not sure that proves anything one way or another. It's reasonable to assume that Archons are pretty powerful, but we don't know exactly how they compare to dwagons.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by BoneLord View Post
    On Archons: I doubt they are much more powerful than Dwagons. If the Arkendish (see post 7) can control Archons, and the Arkenhammer can control Dwagons, it seems unlikely to me that the Archons are any more powerful than Dwagons. Even if they can teleport, and probably throw lightning or something like that, they are probably only the second most powerful units in the game, and there appears to be only 3 of them in the battle.
    Hmm... If the Charlie's Archons can teleport,
    Spoiler
    Show
    then Hamster's plan could be in trouble. The main problem is the large amount of resources committed to this plan. The Archons zap back, break through the outside wall, and take out a far-too-large number of dwagons. One or two archons may be killed in the attack, but Parson knows that the loss of that many dwagons is a critical failure.

    He would expect to be fired. However, the tool would be overjoyed. Two archons down! Whoot! I'm now down to 1/3 of my dwagons, but woot again!. Silly fool.
    Last edited by kabbor; 2007-05-24 at 11:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Re: Archons. There's circumstantial evidence that they are powerful ie that they have a high price and that Ansom was willing to pay that price for only three of them. Also they're called Archons. However, it's only circumstantial, unless I missed something somewhere.

    Plus, the price may or may not be money. It's always in the realm of possibility that they work for something else which Parson may be able to provide.

    That and it may have just been a silly joke on Charlie's Angels and the Archons may not ever appear again.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    If they're like the Archangels of HoMM, they can resurrect dead units during a battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
    Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    I think that the Archons by themselves would not be sufficient to seriously disrupt the Dwagon death staw. The disruption to the previous plan was twofold, and one of the problems was that the intended objective was to croak or capture Ansom, and he did not accompany the flying column to retrieve Jillian.

    FWIW, I think the Archons are comparable in power to a warlord, so having the 3 on the field is significant when there is an army to assist, but not necessary equivalent to 56 dwagons.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by erewhon View Post
    Ansom is in trouble, unless there's something we don't know. Really the only way I can see for Ansom to beat what Parson is doing is to charge Gobwin Knob full tilt and try to topple the city before the party platter of doom kills him.
    The fast Dwagons probably aren't twice as fast as Ansom's faster units. And there aren't enough slow dwagons for the outer perimeter to be all that strong (stacks are of up to 8, but there are only 27 slow Dwagons covering 6 hexes so he has stacks of 4-5). Which means that Ansom's faster units can outnumber Parson's defense. If Ansom were smart enough to send the slowest units that can reach FIRST then he'd have a stack of faster units available to attack through the breach the earlier stack made and hit the fast Dwagons.

    I doubt that he has ENOUGH fast air or archer units properly positioned to react effectively this turn, Parson can count move and came up with this plan PRIOR to realizing that Ansom may not even be able to find him, but next turn when his fast air isn't all away this won't work.

    Similarly this won't work once Ansom gets out of the woods and units other than fliers and archers are able to fight back.

    It won't work indefinitely, and Ansom doesn't need to actually take Gobwin Knob to stop it.

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    confused Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by TK-Squared View Post
    Leeeeeeeeeroy Jeeeeeeeeeeeenkins.


    Awesome! Go Dwagons! Go!
    Why Leroy Jenkins?????

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    Default Re: Erfworld 55, Page 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    The fast Dwagons probably aren't twice as fast as Ansom's faster units.
    Obviously not -- a majority of the dwagons have less that 56 move, and Jillian's gwiffon had 52 move.

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