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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Shaofoo's Avatar

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shojiteru View Post
    I remember that the dm picks the stats only. Says nothing about who picks. You can pick what you want to summon then the dm gives you the stats because he is the library. I dont bring my own book.
    The stats are the monster, if there is no stats there is no monster, you can't have a statless monster since you need something to be able to resolve events. You might want a pixie but if the DM wants the pixie to breathe fire instead of polymorph then that is what you'll get, you can't pick what the pixie has or doesn't have.

    If my dm forced my spells to suck because he wants to underpower me then he is an ahole. The book gives the dm power and the dm goal is for player fun. If the player wants to end an encounter in 1 round because that would be most fun,LET THEM. THIS IS THEIR GAME TOO.
    The goal is Player AND DM fun. The DM is not a babysitter and doormat for the players, the DM should be able to enjoy this as much as players are. If ending the encounter in one round isn't fun for the DM then maybe you should be considerate to the DM's wishes as well. As a player and a DM I don't want everything to be resolved in a single round. It is more than the DM's game or the player's game, it is everyone's game and all are entitled to fun.

    Dms need to remembrr to think of what the players want. If what they want seems powerful, up the difficulty. Use ingame mechanica to balance, not making the game lame so everything sucks so level 20s have trouble with 1 kobald.
    Friendly advice, tone down on the hyperbole if you want people to take you seriously. I doubt anyone is nerfing level 20 characters that they can't even take on 1 Kobold and to be honest I doubt the game would go on for so long if everyone is being nerfed to such an extent.

    Also it is much easier to say no than it is to try to always say yes then figure it out how to balance the game. Also if it is something that goes against my own wishes then I will most likely say no anyway unless you give an actual argument.

    Polymorph is fine. Kick a rabbit lff the cliff and after he loees hp, no instant death just him revert to original form then rest damage gets transferree. You would get more damage fast from levitate. Less time to get co centration broken and does the same thing.
    Honestly the whole kick a rabbit of a cliff is ludicrous since it seems that the monster turned rabbit would just stand there to be easily picked up and chucked away like an empty can. You would still need to actually capture and chase the bunny around. Plus the fact that if this was a battle there should be others that would make finding the bunny much harder

    also Levitate doesn't work the way that you say. You need an action to move the target around so you won't be casting spells all this time either. You are basically a target for other baddies.

    If you have a problem with your players having fun and enjoying themselves and gou seek to punish them because they are being creative, why dont you all go not play a game that lets players do what they want?
    I doubt it is less not letting the players have fun than it is more not having the players disrupt the game.

    The game is players > Dm >book. Players want to have fun. Dm makes it fun using the book as a guide. Players dont always do what is in the book so the dm is forced to be creative and think on the spot. If they do powergaming and you wanted to roleplay, either find a new group or adapt and make it a power game.
    Again it is players = DM when it comes to fun, the book doesn't even factor into the equation because the book can't have fun and I sincerely doubt that the makers of the game care how one particular group is playing their game, as long as they bought the books they could eat them for all they care.

    If the DM wants to play a particular way and the player wants to play a different way then maybe you can both compromise and reach a happy medium instead of expecting the DM to do all the leg work. If one wants powergaming and another wants RP you can have a Powergame RP game, neither Powergaming or RP are mutually exclusive. Powergaming involves trying to min max your character while RPing means actually playing your character, both can coexist.

    If it was a problem, it should have been changed in playtest. Although they missed elemental monks and the broken beserker and wild mage since they are so horrible.
    A lot of things that people cry broken aren't really so when you actually play test it, including elemental monks, beserker and the wild mage; there are actual play cases where people are very happy and contribute meaningfully to the game. You might not personally like them and you might never play as them but that doesn't make them broken or horrible. You are free to never play those classes and pick another. Also no mention of BM rangers, those are the poster child of bad classes and yet even they have actual playtest where the players have fun.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Player: "OK I summon magma mephrits to burn through the wood."

    DM: "Lol no, get ice mephrits instead."

    Player: "Why would I summon those?"

    DM: "Quit being a munchkin."

    If the above appears stupid to you, then maybe "well the spell says DM has the stats" is a **** excuse for such behavior.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Maybe the system assumes the DM isn't an antagonistic moron?
    Last edited by mephnick; 2015-10-10 at 12:17 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    do you have an AoE available in every fight? are the pixies even at the fight (they don't need to be to turn the entire party into t-rexes or giant apes)? if so, do the enemies even know their location (they're tiny flying creatures with decent stealth). are the pixies grouped tightly enough together that a single AoE can even hit them all?

    pixies have a lot of defences beyond just their hit points. yes, if they get hit, they're gone. thing is, it isn't that easy to hit a pixie. their defensive CR is actually something around 2 as i recall because of all their defensive abilities.
    For a party fighting a 7th level caster who can even cast conjure woodland beings? Yes I fully expect them to have an AoE available.

    As this was a combat scenario, the pixies would be in combat, they have their own turn which may not happen until enemies have a chance to kill them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shojiteru View Post
    I remember that the dm picks the stats only. Says nothing about who picks. You can pick what you want to summon then the dm gives you the stats because he is the library. I dont bring my own book.

    If my dm forced my spells to suck because he wants to underpower me then he is an ahole. The book gives the dm power and the dm goal is for player fun. If the player wants to end an encounter in 1 round because that would be most fun,LET THEM. THIS IS THEIR GAME TOO.

    Dms need to remembrr to think of what the players want. If what they want seems powerful, up the difficulty. Use ingame mechanica to balance, not making the game lame so everything sucks so level 20s have trouble with 1 kobald.

    Polymorph is fine. Kick a rabbit lff the cliff and after he loees hp, no instant death just him revert to original form then rest damage gets transferree. You would get more damage fast from levitate. Less time to get co centration broken and does the same thing.

    If you have a problem with your players having fun and enjoying themselves and gou seek to punish them because they are being creative, why dont you all go not play a game that lets players do what they want?

    The game is players > Dm >book. Players want to have fun. Dm makes it fun using the book as a guide. Players dont always do what is in the book so the dm is forced to be creative and think on the spot. If they do powergaming and you wanted to roleplay, either find a new group or adapt and make it a power game.

    If it was a problem, it should have been changed in playtest. Although they missed elemental monks and the broken beserker and wild mage since they are so horrible.
    It does say the caster only is picking one of:
    One fey of cr 2
    Two of 1
    Four of 1/2
    Eight of 1/4

    It's specifically non specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Player: "OK I summon magma mephrits to burn through the wood."

    DM: "Lol no, get ice mephrits instead."

    Player: "Why would I summon those?"

    DM: "Quit being a munchkin."

    If the above appears stupid to you, then maybe "well the spell says DM has the stats" is a **** excuse for such behavior.
    If you cast conjure minor elementals you might get magma mephits, or you might get any combination of elementals that have the selected challenge rating. It's really not up to the player.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Shaofoo's Avatar

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Player: "OK I summon magma mephrits to burn through the wood."

    DM: "Lol no, get ice mephrits instead."

    Player: "Why would I summon those?"

    DM: "Quit being a munchkin."

    If the above appears stupid to you, then maybe "well the spell says DM has the stats" is a **** excuse for such behavior.
    Well how about this exchange instead for thought:

    Player: "OK I summon magma mephrits to burn through the wood."

    DM: "Lol no I am sorry, you can only get ice mephrits instead."

    Player: "Why would I summon those?"

    DM: "Quit being a munchkin. Because you are in a frozen forest so the spell would only try to conjure what is most readily available. If you really wanted magma mephits you could try to do an Arcana check but there might be some risks... your call"
    You can't justify bad DM behavior especially if he goes lol unironically and calls you a munchkin for no reason at all. I would never have played with such a DM since I am sure a DM like that would have been aggravating since day 1, I don't play D&D to please an socially inept malcontent.
    Last edited by Shaofoo; 2015-10-10 at 12:57 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCheese View Post
    There are other forms of instant death. There are spells (Power Word Kill or Disintegrate) that are higher level and yet would be stopped by a level 4 slot under the proposed change to Polymorph.

    If I punt the rabbit (1hp?) off a cliff (easy to do with a rabbit) that creature is going to take a lot of falling damage. All that damage would go toward the rabbit and then the monster. With the proposed change it, the xd6 damage would go toward the rabbit, kill the rabbit, and none would go to the monster after it changes back.

    Spells shouldn't be that powerful at level 4, the original spell or the proposed change. No other spell is that powerful at that level. Other level 4 spells are, at most, "let's deal with this later" or deal HP damage.

    About the only way to balance Polymorph is to get rid of it, raise it to level 6, or perhaps allow a con/wis Save each round to reverse the effects.
    Simple Solution. Hurl the bunny off the cliff and then cease concentration. Bam. Bunny turns into an orcish warcheif and falls to his death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaofoo View Post
    Again it is players = DM when it comes to fun, the book doesn't even factor into the equation because the book can't have fun and I sincerely doubt that the makers of the game care how one particular group is playing their game, as long as they bought the books they could eat them for all they care.
    Can I sig this? Mostly just for the last sentence since it made me genuinely laugh out loud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Koo Rehtorb View Post
    I hear Rich Burlew grinds people's bones to make his bread.

    Maybe someday I'll say something clever enough to be sigged, nah probably not

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shojiteru View Post
    ...Snip

    The game is players > Dm >book. Players want to have fun. Dm makes it fun using the book as a guide. Players dont always do what is in the book so the dm is forced to be creative and think on the spot. If they do powergaming and you wanted to roleplay, either find a new group or adapt and make it a power game.
    I don't think this argument would work on most DM's who have to spend a lot of time carefully crafting their campaigns. I mean, yeah it's cool when players come up with nifty ideas for a scenario, but then when they try to turn into one-trick ponies and summon the same Pixies, or kick the bunny off the cliff, for the third time, much less the hundredth time, DM is going to be working against that tactic to keep the game interesting for everyone involved.

    If a player approached me with this argument, they'd be lucky if I didn't eject them from the game.
    Last edited by Reosoul; 2015-10-10 at 02:19 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Simple Solution. Hurl the bunny off the cliff and then cease concentration. Bam. Bunny turns into an orcish warcheif and falls to his death.
    Presumably they'd have to catch the bunny (are rabbits even statted?) which would probably be very difficult as I'd imagine rabbits have a high acrobatics check to avoid a grapple

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogonjeltz View Post
    Presumably they'd have to catch the bunny (are rabbits even statted?) which would probably be very difficult as I'd imagine rabbits have a high acrobatics check to avoid a grapple
    Yeah, if you ever tried to catch a wild rabbit by hand good luck. Those things are fast, really fast. And small, likely super hard to catch. I had pet rabbits and the only reason I could catch them was because houses have corners and minimal natural cover.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogonjeltz View Post
    For a party fighting a 7th level caster who can even cast conjure woodland beings? Yes I fully expect them to have an AoE available.

    As this was a combat scenario, the pixies would be in combat, they have their own turn which may not happen until enemies have a chance to kill them.
    the 7th level caster who can conjure pixies mostly implies that one side has AoE spells. it does not remotely guarantee that the other side has AoE spells. it certainly does not guarantee that either side has AoE nukes if you for some reason encounter pixies that are attacking you for some reason other than being part of an encounter with a level 7+ spellcaster.

    and why would the pixies have to be in combat to be useful in combat? the summoned pixies last an hour. polymorph also lasts an hour. there is no need for the pixies to be physically present to swing the fight in a major way.

    ultimately, the pixies add far more than any other CR 1/4 creature could ever hope to add. you don't *need* to have AoE nukes to deal with wolves, or panthers, or even sprites. certainly, it is helpful to have AoE nukes against large groups of relatively weak creatures, but it isn't a requirement to have a hope of success.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    the 7th level caster who can conjure pixies mostly implies that one side has AoE spells. it does not remotely guarantee that the other side has AoE spells. it certainly does not guarantee that either side has AoE nukes if you for some reason encounter pixies that are attacking you for some reason other than being part of an encounter with a level 7+ spellcaster.

    and why would the pixies have to be in combat to be useful in combat? the summoned pixies last an hour. polymorph also lasts an hour. there is no need for the pixies to be physically present to swing the fight in a major way.

    ultimately, the pixies add far more than any other CR 1/4 creature could ever hope to add. you don't *need* to have AoE nukes to deal with wolves, or panthers, or even sprites. certainly, it is helpful to have AoE nukes against large groups of relatively weak creatures, but it isn't a requirement to have a hope of success.
    We are talking about using CWB in combat, by necessity the pixies are in combat.

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    It is the game of the dm and players. If the players dont like the dm and his picking what you get in the spell then you can leave or have them let you swap out that spell for another because it doesnt do what you wanted. Both dm and player have to agree on it. Dont pick a spell that heals if you are in a campaign when combat never arises. The fun for dm should be watching the players enjoy their world and the players should respect the laws of the world the dm created.

    The dm is who you ask questions to. If the dm isnt sure he can get others' opinions but the final decision is his alone. I like how you can ask questions online but not everyone realizes that 1 persons answer is t the answer of their dm.

    In simple, players should discuss every aspect of their character with the dm beforehand so it fits properly. The dm should consult with the players on what they want to do and what would be most fun for them. The rules are mere guidlines and suggestions. Its the ones playing the game who get final verdict, be they dm or players.

    If you think it is op, the only one who can change your mind is your dm/players in hopes of using that in that game.

    Side note: some things can be fun and playable and broken at the same time. Personal opinion only. Any core feature that punishes you for using it isnt worth it imo. Wild mage will kill the party or the party will put a 60 restraini g order when spells are cast. Frenzy is only good when you know exactly a rest will follow after this encounter.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogonjeltz View Post
    We are talking about using CWB in combat, by necessity the pixies are in combat.
    i can use CWB in combat without having cast it during the combat i want to use it in. it lasts an hour, and so do some of the effects of the spell. just as i can use mage armour in combat without needing to actually cast the spell during combat.

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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Maybe the system assumes the DM isn't an antagonistic moron?
    Possible ways to run it.

    1. Player picks creature.

    2. DM picks creature but just picks whatever the player wanted.

    3. DM is an antagonistic moron.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaofoo View Post
    Well how about this exchange instead for thought:



    You can't justify bad DM behavior especially if he goes lol unironically and calls you a munchkin for no reason at all. I would never have played with such a DM since I am sure a DM like that would have been aggravating since day 1, I don't play D&D to please an socially inept malcontent.
    The DM you depict is just afraid to say what they really feel. He also needs context to seem reasonable. If the wood cage was in a forest, he is being a ****.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Possible ways to run it.

    1. Player picks creature.

    2. DM picks creature but just picks whatever the player wanted.

    3. DM is an antagonistic moron.
    4. DM picks randomly from among those creatures that could plausibly appear in this terrain.

    5. DM chooses whichever creature makes the most entertaining addition to the story at this point.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    4. DM picks randomly from among those creatures that could plausibly appear in this terrain.

    5. DM chooses whichever creature makes the most entertaining addition to the story at this point.
    Both of those are still number 3.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Both of those are still number 3.
    No, neither of them is. And it doesn't help your case to call the DM names just because you don't like how they ruled.

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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    No, neither of them is. And it doesn't help your case to call the DM names just because you don't like how they ruled.
    That is your opinion. If the players stay then you can say that ruling works for your group.

    DM making up bull**** house rules to take away player agency can't be a good motivation. The DM pointing to the dev b-team to justify his crap is even worse.

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    Shaofoo's Avatar

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    The DM you depict is just afraid to say what they really feel. He also needs context to seem reasonable. If the wood cage was in a forest, he is being a ****.
    And what does the DM really feel?

    I am interested because I wanted to bring about a level headed and considerate DM while you seem to want to bring about someone who is lucky that his shadow didn't abandon him since he is so unbearable.

    Like I said before, I have no wish to deal with unbearable people, if the DM is being antagonistic then he has plenty of chances to be antagonistic outside of a couple of spells, he has an entire world to make your life miserable so I doubt that his true colors would show as soon as you don't get what you want on a Conjure Elements spell, he'd probably have you face off against a lich riding an ancient dragon at level 1 and have you force to do menial tasks as he laughs in your face.

    D&D cannot fix a bad person. Even if Conjure Elements gave you exactly what you wanted he will still make your life a living hell anyway. But it seems to me that you are more interested in demonizing DMs that don't rule your way once. It would really help your case if you didn't try to seem so bent out of shape because you got ice mephits instead of fire ones, I mean couldn't you just have said I Firebolt the wood or something to that effect?
    Last edited by Shaofoo; 2015-10-10 at 09:54 PM.

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    That is your opinion. If the players stay then you can say that ruling works for your group.

    DM making up bull**** house rules to take away player agency can't be a good motivation. The DM pointing to the dev b-team to justify his crap is even worse.
    Since DM choice for CWB is the official word from the devs, it is not a house-rule. You seem to be very hostile to anyone who does not play it the way you want. Some people prefer to roll randomly, some want only what they think would be in the region. That is a different style of play. It does not make them a jerk, or unfair, or antagonistic. It is just not what you desire. Many times in life people will have differences of opinion, it does not mean they are all jerks. If you think so, perhaps the problem is with you and not others.

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellack View Post
    Since DM choice for CWB is the official word from the devs, it is not a house-rule. You seem to be very hostile to anyone who does not play it the way you want. Some people prefer to roll randomly, some want only what they think would be in the region. That is a different style of play. It does not make them a jerk, or unfair, or antagonistic. It is just not what you desire. Many times in life people will have differences of opinion, it does not mean they are all jerks. If you think so, perhaps the problem is with you and not others.
    The idea of a DM combing FAQs looking for reasons to remove player agency and to overcomplicate mechanics seems jerky to me.

    Does the spell say to roll randomly? Does it say the DM picks? Does it say the DM should pick thematic answers? Nope. It doesn't say any of that. The only one picking in the spell is the player. The DM has the statistics.

    You can call adding paragraphs of unneeded rules a difference of opinion. I call it poor game mastery.
    Last edited by Mara; 2015-10-11 at 01:28 AM.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    The idea of a DM combing FAQs looking for reasons to remove player agency and to overcomplicate mechanics seems jerky to me.

    Does the spell say to roll randomly? Does it say the DM picks? Does it say the DM should pick thematic answers? Nope. It doesn't say any of that. The only one picking in the spell is the player. The DM has the statistics.

    You can call adding paragraphs of unneeded rules a difference of opinion. I call it poor game mastery.
    And the only thing the player picks in the spell is one of the specified options regarding number of creatures and CR. When you're the DM, you can run it however you like. Getting bent out of shape because some other DM won't adopt your house rule is very bad form.

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    And the only thing the player picks in the spell is one of the specified options regarding number of creatures and CR. When you're the DM, you can run it however you like. Getting bent out of shape because some other DM won't adopt your house rule is very bad form.
    The spell only mentions the player doing anysort of picking.

    It says nothing about the DM picking anything.

    Dev words do not magically change what is in the book. The sage advice on this is them asking you to implement a houserule.
    Last edited by Mara; 2015-10-11 at 02:55 AM.

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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    The spell only mentions the player doing anysort of picking.

    It says nothing about the DM picking anything.

    Dev words do not magically change what is in the book. The sage advice on this is them asking you to implement a houserule.
    I would have thought that a Developer's word does magically change the book. They are the alpha-RAW.

    Kidding aside, if someone are having an issue with a DM then I would implore them to put aside time so that they and the DM can work through any issues that come up. They may even want to consult the rest of the group to find out where the group stands and talk with the DM with you about the issue. If the DM and the group have irreconcilable views with a person with an issue then I would say that they should probably move on from the group and find another that is closer to their preferences.

    Yes the DM has the final say at the table but that doesn't mean they should never take a player's feelings or preferences into account. Likewise a player should understand that just because something is written, it is not automatically an ironclad rule that all must abide by nor does their interpretation carry special weight.

    On to the topic. Under the heading "When you cast a spell like conjure woodland beings, does the DM or the spellcaster choose the creatures that are conjured" in the compendium is the sentence "The design intent for options like these is that the spellcaster chooses one of them, and then the DM decides what creatures appear that fit the chosen option."

    The preceding paragraph defined the options as the number/CR options.

    It then goes on to say "A spellcaster can certainly express a preference for what creatures shows up, but itís up to the DM to determine if they do. The DM will often choose creatures that are appropriate for the campaign and that will be fun to introduce in a scene."

    So the DM very much is in control of what is summoned but should take the feelings of a player and the mood of the scene into account.
    Life is precious, guard it will your soul.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2011

    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logosloki View Post
    I would have thought that a Developer's word does magically change the book. They are the alpha-RAW.
    We already have instances of different developers contradicting each other. (Mearls and Crawford).

    I just consider developer's rulings to be RAI, since otherwise the whole corpus of tweets, sage articles and other posts made for them would be one of the worst kinds of stealth errata ever (as if 3.PF wasn't bad enough) that is very, very hard to cross-reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
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  28. - Top - End - #88
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    A much cleaner solution is for the DM just to rework pixie polymorph as cr 1/4 or lower forms.

    You don't need to add whole new mechanics and additional steps to running a whole series of spells to fix the one issue you might be having.

    And you don't even fix the perceived issue, pixie polymorph is still possible AND you frustrate players.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by NNescio View Post
    We already have instances of different developers contradicting each other. (Mearls and Crawford).

    I just consider developer's rulings to be RAI, since otherwise the whole corpus of tweets, sage articles and other posts made for them would be one of the worst kinds of stealth errata ever (as if 3.PF wasn't bad enough) that is very, very hard to cross-reference.
    As per http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/05/25/golden-rule-xix/, the compendium and errata are the official word (RAI). Ultimately though, as they maintain, the final RAI is whatever your DM decides.

    I suppose, a convoluted mental image would be that the PHB, MM, DMG, Encounters, Supplements, Errata and Compendium are combined the adult jogging just behind their darling little one (the DM) who is now riding a bike without training wheels or assistance from said adult. At that point it is the DM who is steering that bike, whether it stays on the footpath, or crashes into a tree.
    Life is precious, guard it will your soul.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Shaofoo's Avatar

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    May 2015

    Default Re: We all know about polymorph issues. . . but solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    A much cleaner solution is for the DM just to rework pixie polymorph as cr 1/4 or lower forms.

    You don't need to add whole new mechanics and additional steps to running a whole series of spells to fix the one issue you might be having.

    And you don't even fix the perceived issue, pixie polymorph is still possible AND you frustrate players.
    Except your fix still doesn't prevent the problem either, having 8 enemies turn into useless animals can do wonders for crowd control, just hit the enemies one by one as the others can't do much. And if there are less enemies you can even have extra polymorphs for use as well.

    A pristine solution if I may say so myself is just strike out polymorph from pixies and that should take care of that problem. As a DM he has full control over how the monsters are stated and he has full control over changing stats and abilities so it is in his full power to just remove Polymorph. You will most likely have a problem but personally the spell doesn't give you full control over the stats of the creature. The MM is not a book for the players and it isn't a guide that should be followed to the letter, the PHB is a guide that should be followed to the letter, the DMG and MM are books that has a bunch of stuff that you can add or ignore or change as you see fit.

    A red dragon can breathe ice instead of fire or a troglodyte might actually be pleasant smelling or kobolds might be cute and lovable creatures instead of nasty lizards. You can't just assume that the MM is law from the players side.

    The pixie polymorph problem was never a problem, there was no problem because the problem was 100% within the DM to fix without house rules (unless you count actually making the world and those who inhabit it a house rule), if the pixies have polymorph it is because the DM allowed it. Of course a shrewd player might take advantage of an inexperienced DM and start overpowering with the use of Polymorph but I consider those edge cases, I assume a good deal of DMs know what's up and a good number of players are good sports and not interested in being overpowering or "winning" the game.

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