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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EndgamerAzari's Avatar

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    Default Help me Kill my Party!

    Here's the deal, see? My DM is letting me build a dungeon to challenge our party. My character will not be present, and since he's the rogue, I'm trying to come up with some really nasty traps to spring. The challenge here, however, is to make some difficult encounters for an overpowered party, which consists of:

    A human sorcerer
    A Spirit Shaman
    A half-Dustani "Disciple of Ezra" (essentially a slightly-less-moral paladin with immunity to metal)
    An elven fighter/duelist
    A half-dragon kender bard
    and a half-celestial psion/thrallherd and his monk thrall.

    All are level 14. Any suggestions?
    Last edited by EndgamerAzari; 2007-05-21 at 09:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devoured by the winner.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Are they old school? If not, Tomb of Horror is a good place to get inspiration. You can't belive how many total party kills that one has done.

    It's a AD&D module, but Wizards has updated it.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Depends on your priorities. You could just design a trap that has a Search DC of 1 billion and requires a Reflex save of 1 billion to avoid 10000d6 damage, if you really want to kill your party.

    If you actually want to challenge them, I suggest.................. designing a dungeon with a series of traps that can all be circumvented in the same manner. Why is that a challenge? Well, they have to run out of resources eventually. Make them all reasonably unique, but force them to expend resources at each one to bypass it. If they can retreat in the middle and come back more prepared, all isn't lost: give them a bait and switch. As they leave the dungeon, hit them with a trap that requires its trigger to be activated twice before it goes off. (Once on the way in, once on the way out.) Set up a bunch of fire traps, so they leave and organize lots of fire resistance. Then when they come back, they learn that they triggered an energy substitution trap that replaces all of the fire spells with cold spells on the way out. Basically, focus the traps not on killing them but draining their resources, and use what they think they know against them.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    u did something bad cause most of ur characters are godly strong

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Quote Originally Posted by Counterpower View Post
    Depends on your priorities. You could just design a trap that has a Search DC of 1 billion and requires a Reflex save of 1 billion to avoid 10000d6 damage, if you really want to kill your party.
    Heh, I said challenge, not kill. Just to put them in their place, make 'em realize that my guy actually DOES have a purpose.

    But the energy substitution thing is BRILLIANT.

    I was also thinking about a mirrored glass hallway that they'll have to walk down, while ballistae are fired in from the larger room outside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devoured by the winner.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    That immune to metal guy sounds like he could really crimp a trap-infested dungeon. They could just march him in front, and anything that isn't elemental or biological material just bounces off his shiny body.

    Personally, I'd agree with Counterpower. Go at them with a war of attrition. If you're using creatures, reanimate them and send them back at the party from a different direction, maybe.

    And if not...

    These are the kinds of guys Tarrasques were made for.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    They'd probably put the Tarrasque down in under ten rounds, sadly.... Gah. It seems like I'm the only one who CAN'T powerbuild.

    But yeah, that disciple is a pain. So I gave the dungeon's boss an obsidian weapon to bypass it. That's gonna be hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devoured by the winner.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Step one: Isolate the disciple.
    Step two: arm a roomful of evil humanoids with rock axes or something.
    Step three: introduce the disciple to your humanoids.

    Of course, not only might it be considered pretty vindictive... considering the group... that will probably be followed by step four: the disciple murders your entire army.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    The cool thing is, it doesn't even have to be energy substitution. Human beings can be easy to fool sometimes. Just send a lot of creatures at them with one specific vulnerability. They'll run out of resources eventually. Undead might be a good idea for that, since you can use traps to reanimate them. This plot even allows for them to rest. Then, the next morning, they say, "well, we've been fighting undead for the past 8 hours." They ready for more undead. You send against them creatures that are immune to or empowered by positive energy. Their careful plans for undead are now completely useless.

    That idea probably isn't as good as the energy substitution one, but it's built along the same lines: start with a war of attrition. They'll probably plan for another such war when they're preparing spells and/or doing any other variable preparation. You then hit them with another war of attrition, but one focusing on an entirely different resource. One that they don't have since they focused on other resources. The easiest way to kill anything is to strike at its weak point. A party with loads of fire resist and plenty of cold spells is going to have a very hard time with a white dragon, even if said dragon is at or below their skill level.

    Also, make it a dynamic dungeon. Every time they take a rest or time off, have the boss set new plans in place based on what he's learned of the party.

    Only problem is, you may be getting evil glares from your party afterwards.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Good idea. The 'split-the-party' concept has occurred to me, but when people can teleport, it's a bit of a pain. And damn Eliza (the disciple) duel-wields greatswords. Don't ask how...

    On an unrelated note, is there some sort of "Anti-psionic circle"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devoured by the winner.
    FREE video game and anime music!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Thats another good idea there. It sounded like your end boss was a melee-type, is he or some underling capable of scrying? 'Cuz that'd let you realistically put Counterpower's ideas into play.

    Only thing I can think of off-hand is an Illithid, and that's more psychic energy meets psychic energy, not anti-psionic.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    The end boss is a total of about level 26 wizard/cleric/mystic theurge/fleshwarper. He has tons of grafts, one of which is the sithilar heart. When he drops, he gains a lot of health back. Follow that with tenser's transformation and righteous might, and you've got a nasty surprise. I'm also thinking of giving him the Dungeon Lord class: you ALWAYS know what's going on in your dungeon. So he CAN adjust it. And he has clones elsewhere, so he can be recurring!

    I'm thinking of tossing some Incarnum characters in there, so I can mix things up. Maybe a half-golem.... lots of constructs and undead--immune to magic and mind-affecting...

    I think just wearing 'em out will be fun, fun, fun...

    Thanks for all the ideas! Keep 'em comin'!
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    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    The proper way to run a fight at ECL90 gestalt is to line up and kick each other in the genitals. The first one who falls over loses and his character's soul is devoured by the winner.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't make it up.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Tucker's Kobolds mixed with a Head of Vecna(or similar item.) Watch insanity and death ensue.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    That depends on the way psionics works. If there's psionics-magic transparency, antimagic circle works. If there isn't, then it seems only reasonable that someone would have created such an effect a long time ago.

    Also, if there isn't someone in this group capable of scrying, I seriously recommend putting one in, or maybe some traps that have the same effect. (Since the point of this is, um, traps. As far as I gathered.)

    Splitting the party could be much fun. Just don't allow too much insanity. A teleport destination of "my friend Eliza's current location" is not valid. Just get them apart, and again fake them out with what they think they know. For example: a maze with porticullis traps designed to split the party. Add localized antimagic fields (or antipsionics) to prevent them from immendiately resolving the situation. Then, use the paths in the maze, and possibly illusions as well, to make them think that their friends are just a dimension door away on the other side of the wall. Of course, the other side of the wall is a 10 by 10 cube that immediately starts filling with water.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Make multiple dungeons.

    Why you may ask?

    Moving walls.

    ---------------------------------

    Send them in "The World's Largest Dungeon" :D
    by Alderac Entertainement Group (if I remember correctly)

    One-way wall of force effect, they can't get out the way they entered...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Jim Henson's Labyrinth meets Alien vs. Predator kind of moving walls?

    Also, you should add an enormous rolling rock trap. For flavor.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    I just MUST second the commendation for Tucker's kobolds.

    Basically: Lots of traps, narrow passages and Small enemies swarming about.

    Add a few Sorcerers flinging area effect spells while they're busy dodging all the traps, and you can make sure they'll be very softened up for the boss fight.
    "When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive." –Malkavian proverb

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    I'm partial to scything blades. Why? They're re-usable and always active. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Have some kobolds retreat down a couple corridors, all snake-like, with some scything blades set up so they'll hit every corridor, and turn them on. And since you can't use metal... Is there a 3rd ed equivalent of Black Blade of Disaster? Something magical and nonstandard that could be set up just as easily as a scything blade. Then just make them go back and forth through the same corridor, maybe after a few physical traps they can spend "find traps" spells on, and you've got free attacks against them each time they go through.

    But, then again, they might just tunnel through the walls or something at level 14...

    The most deadly thing about Tucker's kobolds was the size, they could retreat through small-sized tunnels, so find some good small minions if possible. There are so many books out there with crazy things I don't know about. Then again, you could just have passwall or phase door set up so the pcs can't follow. Reduce person might help too, that doesn't lower max hp. Vampire kobolds, anyone?

    Get them to teleport into a trap after your troops phase away.
    That'll teach 'em to follow without thinking.

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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    I'm going for party Isolation. Take the Sorcerer, and either drop him via trap into a No-Magic zone or trick him into entering it without the others. This Zone will cover a Labyrinth he must escape, filled with minor traps and fairly high Reflex Saves. (Unless of course he has a good Disable Device, in which case difficult traps)with

    Next up is the Psion. HAve enemies hidden behind walls with one way mirrors and such, all of which are capable of Psionics. Pelt down the Psion with Said Psionics. Better yet, I haven't played a 3.5 PSion, but if they have abilities to lower the Stats of people, do that to not only the Psion, but the Disciple.

    The Bard, take him down in a Zone of Silence or something. Don't even know if that exists, just some kind of spell that mutes everything.

    Then, send them in to fight a group with non-metal weapons who, for whatever reason, focus on the Fighter and Psion. At this point, the Sorcerer should be out of the Labyrinth, almost dead. The Disciple and Fighter should be severly hurt from a mix of the Psionics and Stone clubbings, and the Spirit Shaman low on spells.

    Now bring in the shock troops. Find a creature from a manual that comes in large numbers, and moves fast. With superior speed, the heroes can't run, giving time for the big guns to get close. At this point, the Shaman will be spent, and many used up sorcerer spells.

    Now it depends on what kind of villian this is. You could say that at this time, his minions are coming back to report. If the Heroes try to leave or rest, the will meat with these guys. Forcing them to either fight, retreat into the labyrinth, or run farther into the dungeon towards the main villain. If they go in the labyrinth, they could easily get lost for a while, so even if they rest the villian can send in an appropriate team. Remember, this is in an Anti-Magic Field. So unless you count Psionics seperatley, no one can cast, leaving it up to your fighters to keep them alive in a Trap filled labyrinth.

    Also, make it so the labyrinth walls randomly change when no one is around, so it makes them even more confused. Since there is no magic, they could move based on mechanisms in the ground that are weight sensitive, so stepping in certain areas cause certain walls to move.

    And there is your dungeon.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Beholders really. Combined with some sort of heavy hitter (like a golem or giant) You can nullify and pick apart. One beholder can rip a party apart if the rolls go in their favor even slightly. A trap of some sort to position a beholder at each end of a hallway with a meatshield in front could easily finish the party.
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Use a small army of... small creatures a la the aforementioned Tucker's Kobolds, but arm them with Rods of Wonder. This should aggravate the PCs enough that you can split them up rather effectively.

    It's going to be hard to take Ragnarr the Unstoppable seriously when he's pink and leafy.

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Tomb of Horror will likely kill some party members. Or make them hate you. OR both.
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    If they get really annoying, take a page from OotS and toss in a bouncy ball inscribes with some kind of Symbol. Insanity works, but you could always invent a Symbol of Dominion and get really nasty...

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    A locked door with "Speak 'Friend' And Enter" written on the front in dwarvish, and a DC 35 lock.

    (Yes, I know it was originally elvish, hush.)

    A series of traps of 20th level Maximized Magic Missle triggered to activate on the command word "Friend" positioned around the room.

    A hallway or two later, another "Speak 'Friend' And Enter" Door and trap combo, except that this time, the trap is activated by a pressure plate inside the lock.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Paint and chromatic dragons.

    The red dragons look white! the blue dragons look green! The black dragons look gold (for extra fun if you can find some metallic paint). Plus it punishes meta gamers.

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    My wife built a really interesting dungeon to challenge our level 17 party this past weekend.

    The setup was, we found a haunted but very nice sword specifically keyed to kill an evil gnome rogue/assassin. Every few days, the ghost of a red dragon would reappear next to the sword and try to level drain us, and the only way to get rid of it would be to get rid of the sword or satisfy the ghost-dragon by killing the gnome. Sounds easy, right? Scry, teleport, kill the gnome. Only he has a buddy who casts false vision on him every morning (scrying is right out) and he hangs out in a room with forbiddance cast on it (no extradimensional travel into the room.) His guild hall was easy to find, with big signs pointing to it and everything, but of course he regularly minced the high-level parties that went after him. He had a very well trapped dungeon.

    Here's the interesting part of the trap setup, beyond the mook level of the dungeon:
    - a room with about 30 cockatrices in nests behind illusory walls, with illusions that make them look like puppies. You walk in the room, trigger a noise trap, and they all come out and try to stone you. And unless you make your save, you think they're all puppies. Ugh.

    - a 35x25 room with two huge (15') stone golems. Golems are programmed not to act until someone either comes into the room or attacks them. Then their programming is, essentially, to prioritize things they see casting #1, creatures not wearing armor #2, whatever the other guy is hitting #3, and defend themselves #4. This room is basically designed to kill arcane casters, or at least waste a lot of your resources. If your wizard walks into the middle of the room while visible, he will die.

    - a very large room with a plus-shaped wall in the middle and 4 alcoves at the sides. At first the party thinks this is a great place to be ambushed, so moves with caution. Then they find a single rogue... who steps behind a wall in one corner and pushes a button. He disappears. Each corner of the room has an assembly with 4 buttons: one big one, and 3 small ones pointed at the other 3 corners. So we figure, he's teleporting around. Fine, we'll put one person camping by each of the 4 corners where the buttons are. As we spread out, he pushes the big button... which disactivates the teleporters and drops the room like an elevator. When the room drops, there's a 10' stone wall separating each quadrant of the room, and arrow slits in the walls. The party is now effectively separated, and the rogues outside plus the one inside can pick a single isolated target and get at least a round of sneak attacks on him. (Lucky for us, they attacked our half-orc Barbarian with improved uncanny dodge and DR 6/-, and did a grand total of zero damage to him instead.) Consider something like this to split up your party.

    - a room with a few pillars and fire (20d6, no save) that flows in from each wall one at a time and periodically shifts direction. The party solved the puzzle -- run to point A, wait behind the pillar for the fire to shift direction, run to point B, wait for the fire to shift direction, run to point C, wait... so of course we figure we're done, and start shuttling people to the other side. The barbarian carries one of the halflings over. When they arrive, they find it's an ambush -- the room isn't a meaningless puzzle, it's a way for the boss to split us up so he can shoot at us one by one.

    - the boss room itself, where the ambush was taking place from, had pillars all around, and levers that fired off various spells: lightning bolt and fireball targeted on certain areas, and heal and greater dispel targeted on the lever-puller. This meant the invisible assassin and his mooks could sneak around and fire off damage spells at us, and if we managed to hurt one they could Heal or remove various debuffs. (As it turned out, locate creature + glitterdust + the haunted sword finished off the assassin fairly easily... once we got to him. But that was the hard part.)

    The philosophy of the dungeon was this: waste your resources, split the party up, make you think you've solved a puzzle when you've really fallen into a trap, disrupt line of sight, and use all of that to isolate and attack specific party members.

    And of course if you don't have a rogue, this becomes far more difficult. How exactly are you getting through the locked doors out of the elevator room? Without a rogue, it might take long enough to bash the doors down that two or three party members get captured (merciful bows) and get their fingers cut off (effectively making them unable to cast or wield weapons.)

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Those traps kick the HELL out of any dungeon I've ever run (not that I've been on more than, maybe, 3-4 dungeon crawls).

    Very impressive.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    Speaking of punishing metagamers, if you're group is up-to-date on their DND lore, then introduce them to a kobold wizard named Pun-Pun, with a viper familiar. Only instead of him actually being the Pun-Pun of much popular reference, he's just a kobold wizard. Then make it so he's slightly annoyed by something they've done.

    Watch as they try everything to avoid a conflict with Pun-Pun, while you have a kill mechanism counting down at the same time (for example, a countdown trap that will kill all the players if they don't stop it, but that our kobold doesn't want touched. Make this Pun-Pun a fairly strong wizard with contingency, so that if they *do* try something against him right off the bat, the fascade doesn't shatter immediately). If they know you're out to get them, they'll be even more inclined to believe it's the being wrought from the cheese of loopholes.

    My stand-in DM session turned out amazing that way, when I used a ton of what the players learned from the WoTC boards to lead them on with false information. Ah, good times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lillitheris
    As for my personal choice, I might just worship ClericofPhwarrr.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoorex
    Phwarrr is amazing and also my god.

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    Drystan in Karanblade
    Veryn in the Maacain Invasion. Veryn's Sliver, by Talfrey:
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    Tyro in the Maacain Invasion

    Avatar by Abardam.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Help me Kill my Party!

    I would also suggest Lovecraftian Geometry.

    Example:

    Party enters hallway, door seals behind them. Hall is 30' long, 90 degree right turn at the end. (all halls are perfectly level)

    Hall 2: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (making L shape so far)

    Hall 3: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (angular U shape)

    Hall 4: 30' long, ends with large room, does not angle to the right. At all. Laugh as the first player to realize what's going on begins crying.


    Dang near impossible to map this sort of dungeon, then just have it incredibly long traveling-wise. Once the boss is killed, have mass amounts of Anti-magic/psionic circles activate, and start a fuse reaching an incredible amount of conventional explosives. Giggle as they attempt to escape through truly random hallways and rooms, which are different than how they came in.

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