Alternative ways to get new Class skills

[Bullet06320]

Some more stuff:

Spoiler: Alternative Class Features

Show

o Bluff
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also diplomacy and sense motive)

o Diplomacy
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also bluff and sense motive)

o Knowledge (architecture and engineering)
Dwarven Rogue Substitution Levels - Dragon #338, pg. 96

o Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Dwarven Cleric Substitution Levels - Races of Stone

o Sense Motive
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also bluff and diplomacy)

o Survival
Elf Paladin Substitution Levels - Races of the Wild

Spoiler: Variant Classes

Show

Wizard-Illusionist variant, Shadow Shaper: Add Hide

Dragon #311
Ancestral Speaker (Cleric): Replace Knowledge (the planes) with Knowledge (local). Add Perform, Sense Motive, and two any other skills
Arcane Disciple (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana) and Use Magic Device
Aspirant (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana)
Benevolent (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana)
Crusader (Cleric): Eliminate Knowledge (the planes) and Diplomacy. Add Knowledge (arcana), Handle Animal and Intimidate
Evangelist (Cleric): Eliminate Knowledge (history) and Knowledge (the planes). Add Gather Information
Metal Master (Druid): Eliminate Handle Animal. Add Knowledge (architecture and engineering) and Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Wild Reaper (Druid): Add Intimidate
Winter Warden (Druid): Add Knowledge (geography)

Dragon #310
Bodyguard (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Diplomacy, Gather Info, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot
Commander (Fighter): Eliminate Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Diplomacy, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Profession (siege engineer), Sense Motive, and Spot.
Corsair (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Intimidate. Add Appraise, Balance, Profession(sailor), Spot, and Use Rope
Exoticist (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Ride. Add Tumble
Fencer (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Info
Horseman (Fighter): Eliminate Climb, Intimidate, and Swim. Add Balance and Tumble
Kensai (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Intimidate. Add Balance, Concentration, and Tumble
Knight (Fighter): Replace Intimidate with Diplomacy. Add Heal
Pugilist (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Handle Animal, and Jump. Add Bluff, Sense Motive, and Spot
Shield Bearer (Fighter): Eliminate Swim. Add Diplomacy
Survivalist (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal, Intimidate, and Ride. Add Balance, Hide, Move Silently, Survival, and Use Rope
Targetteer (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, and Swim. Add Hide, Move Silently, and Profession
Anarch (Paladin): Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), and Ride. Add Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), and Survival
Avenger (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), and Move Silently
Enforcer (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Gather Information, Intimidate, and Knowledge (history)
Incarnate (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty). Add Knowledge (nature), Listen, Sense Motive, and Survival
Sentinel (Paladin): Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Search, Spot, and Survival

Dragon #312
Anti-Paladin: Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Sense Motive. Add Bluff, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (the planes), and Survival
Corrupter (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession. Add Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Hide, and Knowledge (history)
Despot (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, and Ride. Add Bluff, Intimidate, and Search
Deathwalker (Wizard): Replace Decipher Script with Bluff
Fleshcrafter (Wizard): Eliminate Decipher Script and Profession. Add Heal

Dragon #324
Wild Monk: Eliminate Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perform, and Sense Motive. Add Knowledge (nature) and Survival
Filidh (Wizard): Eliminate Profession. Add Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Survival.

Dragon #317 (pg. 30)
Urban Druid: Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Listen, Knowledge (nature), Ride, Spot, Survival, and Swim. Add Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Perform, and Speak Language

Dragon #329 (pg. 94)
Gnome Paladin (variant, not a sub. levels): Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Perform (comedy)

Dragon #332 (pg. 90)
Wyrmslayer (Paladin): Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Knowledge (arcana)

Dragon #336 (pg. 105)
Mystic Ranger: Add Spellcraft

Dragon #339 (pg. 90)
Sidhe Scholar (Druid): Add Knowledge (arcana)

Dragon #344 (pg. 104)
Anagakok (Wizard): Add Survival

Dragon #349 (pg. 93)
Paladin variant, Hunter of Fiends: Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Knowledge (the planes). Add Survival

still working on adding all the variant classes there, I have been going through dragon mags and I keep finding more stuff such as
Barbarian Backgrounds
Born-Again Barbarian - Dragon magazine 335 pg 84 - Suggested Benefit: add Knowledge (local) as a Barbarian class skill

Druid Organizations
Glendale Park Protectorate - Dragon Magazine 337 pg 95 - members add Knowledge (local) to thier Druid class skill list

Variant Classes
Athasian Sorcerer - Dragon Dragon Magazine 319 pg 97 - add Sleight of Hand
Athasian Wizard - Dragon Dragon Magazine 319 pg 97 - add Sleight of Hand
Thane (Fighter) - Dragon Magazine 323 pg 96 - Replace Intimidate with Diplomacy
Janissary (Fighter) -Dragon Magazine 334 pg 88 - Adds Speal Language and 2 Knowledge skills (of his choice) and loses Handle Animal, Intimidate and Swim

Human Regions -Dragon Magazine 334 pg 60-4 - adds a Class Skill, a Favored Class and suggests common PRCs
Shou Lung - Knowledge (nobility and royalty)
T'U Lung - Knowledge(arcana)
Tabot - Knowledge (relegion)
The Plain of Horses - Ride
The Northern Wastes - Knowledge (spirits)
The Jungle Lands - Survival
The Island Kingdoms - Bluff
Koryo - Knowledge (history)
Kozakura - Intimidate
Wa - Diplomacy


Paladin Domains Substitution Level- Dragon Magazine 328 pg 90 - adds Knowldege (arcana) and Spellcraft

Shadow Soulknife Umbragen Racial Substitution Levels - Dragon Magazine 330 pg 46 - adds Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Survival, replaces Knowledge (psionics) with Knowledge (arcana)


I added a note in the dragon section, that its class skills for RHD levels only, not sure if I should eliminate it or expand it, took a bit of thinking and reading, and I was wrong in my original assumption, but I still think it could have been worded better

[Bullet06320]

Some more stuff:

Spoiler: Alternative Class Features

Show

o Bluff
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also diplomacy and sense motive)

o Diplomacy
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also bluff and sense motive)

o Knowledge (architecture and engineering)
Dwarven Rogue Substitution Levels - Dragon #338, pg. 96

o Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Dwarven Cleric Substitution Levels - Races of Stone

o Sense Motive
Half-Elf Fighter Substitution Levels - Races of Destiny (also bluff and diplomacy)

o Survival
Elf Paladin Substitution Levels - Races of the Wild

Spoiler: Variant Classes

Show

Wizard-Illusionist variant, Shadow Shaper: Add Hide

Dragon #311
Ancestral Speaker (Cleric): Replace Knowledge (the planes) with Knowledge (local). Add Perform, Sense Motive, and two any other skills
Arcane Disciple (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana) and Use Magic Device
Aspirant (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana)
Benevolent (Cleric): Add Knowledge (arcana)
Crusader (Cleric): Eliminate Knowledge (the planes) and Diplomacy. Add Knowledge (arcana), Handle Animal and Intimidate
Evangelist (Cleric): Eliminate Knowledge (history) and Knowledge (the planes). Add Gather Information
Metal Master (Druid): Eliminate Handle Animal. Add Knowledge (architecture and engineering) and Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Wild Reaper (Druid): Add Intimidate
Winter Warden (Druid): Add Knowledge (geography)

Dragon #310
Bodyguard (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Diplomacy, Gather Info, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot
Commander (Fighter): Eliminate Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Diplomacy, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Profession (siege engineer), Sense Motive, and Spot.
Corsair (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Intimidate. Add Appraise, Balance, Profession(sailor), Spot, and Use Rope
Exoticist (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Ride. Add Tumble
Fencer (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Climb, Jump, and Swim. Add Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Info
Horseman (Fighter): Eliminate Climb, Intimidate, and Swim. Add Balance and Tumble
Kensai (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal and Intimidate. Add Balance, Concentration, and Tumble
Knight (Fighter): Replace Intimidate with Diplomacy. Add Heal
Pugilist (Fighter): Eliminate Craft, Handle Animal, and Jump. Add Bluff, Sense Motive, and Spot
Shield Bearer (Fighter): Eliminate Swim. Add Diplomacy
Survivalist (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal, Intimidate, and Ride. Add Balance, Hide, Move Silently, Survival, and Use Rope
Targetteer (Fighter): Eliminate Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, and Swim. Add Hide, Move Silently, and Profession
Anarch (Paladin): Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), and Ride. Add Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), and Survival
Avenger (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), and Move Silently
Enforcer (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Gather Information, Intimidate, and Knowledge (history)
Incarnate (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty). Add Knowledge (nature), Listen, Sense Motive, and Survival
Sentinel (Paladin): Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Ride. Add Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Search, Spot, and Survival

Dragon #312
Anti-Paladin: Eliminate Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession, and Sense Motive. Add Bluff, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (the planes), and Survival
Corrupter (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Profession. Add Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Hide, and Knowledge (history)
Despot (Paladin): Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, and Ride. Add Bluff, Intimidate, and Search
Deathwalker (Wizard): Replace Decipher Script with Bluff
Fleshcrafter (Wizard): Eliminate Decipher Script and Profession. Add Heal

Dragon #324
Wild Monk: Eliminate Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perform, and Sense Motive. Add Knowledge (nature) and Survival
Filidh (Wizard): Eliminate Profession. Add Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Survival.

Dragon #317 (pg. 30)
Urban Druid: Eliminate Handle Animal, Heal, Listen, Knowledge (nature), Ride, Spot, Survival, and Swim. Add Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Perform, and Speak Language

Dragon #329 (pg. 94)
Gnome Paladin (variant, not a sub. levels): Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Perform (comedy)

Dragon #332 (pg. 90)
Wyrmslayer (Paladin): Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Knowledge (arcana)

Dragon #336 (pg. 105)
Mystic Ranger: Add Spellcraft

Dragon #339 (pg. 90)
Sidhe Scholar (Druid): Add Knowledge (arcana)

Dragon #344 (pg. 104)
Anagakok (Wizard): Add Survival

Dragon #349 (pg. 93)
Paladin variant, Hunter of Fiends: Replace Knowledge (nobility and royalty) with Knowledge (the planes). Add Survival

finished adding the Variant classes and found 3 you missed in dragon 310
Hunter Monk - Dragon 310 - adds Survival
Martial Monk - Dragon 310 - Replace Knowledge skills with Intimidate
Urban Ranger - Dragon 310 - Replace Knowledge (geography) and Knowledge (nature) with Knowledge (local) and Gather Information

also added our very first template

Elder Serpent - Dragon Magazine 313 pg 86-7 - If the Base creature has less than ten class skills, choose additional class skills to bring the total to ten, only adds skills to RHD levels, must be snake or snake like creature

its the only template so far I've seen that adds class skills, most just merely add a bonus to several skills, but I haven't verified every template yet, just merely the ones in dragon 310-359 so far

I also moved the Variant class section below the ACF section, eliminated the dragon section for now, and moved the Sovereign Archetypes into the race section, as they are race specific

[WhamBamSam]

its the only template so far I've seen that adds class skills, most just merely add a bonus to several skills, but I haven't verified every template yet, just merely the ones in dragon 310-359 so far

The variant Half-Fiend article adds the skills of the Fiendish parent to RHD.

[Bullet06320]

The variant Half-Fiend article adds the skills of the Fiendish parent to RHD.

added, thanks

[ShurikVch]

The variant Half-Fiend article adds the skills of the Fiendish parent to RHD.

That article was continued in "Elite Opponents: More (Half-)Fiendish Variety"

[Troacctid]

The variant classes section is pretty unreadable. Any particular reason why it's not all under alternate class features, sorted by skill like the rest of them?

[Bullet06320]

That article was continued in "Elite Opponents: More (Half-)Fiendish Variety"

added that, and so far the few templates we have only add to RHD, I've been through a bunch more templates and so far looks like mostly adds a bonus to skills. not actual skills though

The variant classes section is pretty unreadable. Any particular reason why it's not all under alternate class features, sorted by skill like the rest of them?

to start with, I agree its hard to read and noticed it earlier. It originally was only a handful from UA, but then we found a ton more in the pages of Dragon. a lot of them also say eliminate this and gain that, so its a lot of repetitive information, and I'm at the point that I'm worried about running out of room. This was one of my first mirrors and didn't think to leave extra room, like I did in many of my other mirrors.(I really didn't know what I was getting into, LOL)
and the reason these are not in ACF section is they are not ACFs or substitution levels, they are actually variants on the base class, but I did move several that was listed as variant classes, but are really ACFs

Enchanter Variant - Social Proficiency gain Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive while losing wizard feats every 5 levels
Diviner Variant - Enhanced Awareness add sense motive and other bonus's while losing familiar
Illusionist variant - Shadow Shaper Adds Hide

those belong in the ACF section, despite how they are listed in the SRD

for the moment I broke up the Dragon Magazine Variants into blocks of what class they are Variants of, to make it little easier at reading

[ShurikVch]

added that, and so far the few templates we have only add to RHD, I've been through a bunch more templates and so far looks like mostly adds a bonus to skills. not actual skills though

If "RHD only" templates are fair play, then Lycanthrope and Entomanothrope are get racial skills of whatever they are "were..."

About the Variant Classes: maybe it would be more readable if we do it like a table?
Something like this:

Skill name	Add	Remove
Appraise	Corsair (Fighter) - Dragon #310	Wilderness Rogue

[Troacctid]

For all intents and purposes, they are ACFs, though.

I think if space is at a premium, it's probably not worth having the dragon section, and you could also remove most of the quotes.

[Bullet06320]

If "RHD only" templates are fair play, then Lycanthrope and Entomanothrope are get racial skills of whatever they are "were..."

About the Variant Classes: maybe it would be more readable if we do it like a table?
Something like this:

Skill name	Add	Remove
Appraise	Corsair (Fighter) - Dragon #310	Wilderness Rogue

those 2 do add skills, to RHD, so for now why not, lets add them
and thanks for the table, I didn't know how to make them, I think that would confuse me trying to do that, but it did come in handy, I used to reformat the skilled city dweller ACF from the format it was in to a table, looks nicer that way IMO

For all intents and purposes, they are ACFs, though.

I think if space is at a premium, it's probably not worth having the dragon section, and you could also remove most of the quotes.

I had already removed the dragon section, I have it saved in a word doc incase it goes back in at sum point

I did start working on the Variant Class Section, I got all the UA, SRD ones formatted in the same way as the rest, will work on the rest over the weekend

[Bullet06320]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm out of room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got most of the Variant Classes formatted properly by skill

added
Any
Cosmopolitan - FRCS- Choose any 1 nonexclusive skill you do not have as a class skill, it is always a class skill. It was Nerfed in PGtF

its was in the quotes at the bottom

I also found some more stuff in the Oriental Adventure stuff, humans get class skills based on their clan

I'm thinking take the race section, move it to a new thread, put a link there, then I can expand the race section with class skills specifically for RHD

Any Ideas?

[Troacctid]

What I would do is:
* Remove the d20 Modern and d20 Rokugan sections, they're not for D&D 3.5
* Move Skilled City Dweller into the main body, it doesn't need its own section. Likewise for the Favored Soul dead levels.
* Remove the quotes at the end.
* Put Initiate of Shar in the main body instead of a quote. Don't worry about the text/table error. The text is correct. There's even a second printing of it to corroborate it.
* Remove the mentions of Jack of All Trades, Elf Dilettante, and Ancestral Wisdom as "honorable mentions." They don't add class skills so they don't need to be here. (Able Learner is okay though.)
* You don't need to say which classes get mantles.

[Bullet06320]

What I would do is:
* Remove the d20 Modern and d20 Rokugan sections, they're not for D&D 3.5
* Move Skilled City Dweller into the main body, it doesn't need its own section. Likewise for the Favored Soul dead levels.
* Remove the quotes at the end.
* Put Initiate of Shar in the main body instead of a quote. Don't worry about the text/table error. The text is correct. There's even a second printing of it to corroborate it.
* Remove the mentions of Jack of All Trades, Elf Dilettante, and Ancestral Wisdom as "honorable mentions." They don't add class skills so they don't need to be here. (Able Learner is okay though.)
* You don't need to say which classes get mantles.

your right about the d20 modern, got ride of that, and the Rokugan d20 quote I thought was from the OA book, I just never got around to checking, it must be from one of the other books, which would be 3rd party

worked in the last of the quotes except the last one, its an item and does add skill ranks

finally fiqured out how to incorporate the skilled city dweller and it saved a few characters, and apparently the link was broken, fixed that, did the same with the favored soul

I like Initiate of shar how it is, pointing out the error, let people decide for themselves how to deal with it

and I like the honorable mentions section

I added under the race section

Human Racial Traits
Oriental Adventures p 9-10
The Standard PHB traits plus a class skill and favored class depending on your clan
Crab: Knowledge (shadowlands)
Crane: Diplomacy
Dragon: Knowledge (history)
Lion: Knowledge (war) errated to Intimidate in Dragon 318
Phoenix: Knowledge Arcana
Scorpion: Bluff
Unicorn: Ride

managed to work in the last of variant classes too

it took a little bit of editing, but saved tons of room, I abbreviated most of the sources, to the standard abbreviations ToB for tome of battle, RoD for races of destiny, etc etc, that gave me the room to finish

I believe every source has been checked, except living greyhawk gazeteer, which I don't yet own till it arrives from amazon in a couple days, lol
unless someone finds an obscure websource or something other odd thats been over looked, I believe we are complete, thankfully cuz there aint much room left, lol

And thanks to everyone that has helped, only took a few months since I ported it over and almost ten years from the original post to complete, LOL

[Thurbane]

Found a new one:

Escape Artist
Slippery – online (bullywug or siv only)

[Bullet06320]

Found a new one:

Escape Artist
Slippery – online (bullywug or siv only)

well, 1 more added, good find
thanks

[Thurbane]

Accidentally stumbled on another feat following a link from another forum:

Appraise

Appraise Magic feat - online

*It is presented alongside an alternate skill system for identifying magic items, so may fall into the same murky area as the Skill Knowledge feat - I believe it works as a standalone feat through, allowing you to use appraise to identify Potions and Scrolls in place of Spellcraft.

[Bullet06320]

added that
and also found this posted in another thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-maximum-ranks

The Codex Anathema (LoM p 214) grants an inherent +2 int/-2 wis, as well as 5 ranks Knowledge (dungeoneering) and 2 ranks each of Knowledge (arcana) and (the planes).

we have 2 Items, so I combined them into their own section, it doesn't make them class skills, but flat outs adds the ranks, odd but still fits I think

[Thurbane]

Also looked at races/templates, couldn't see the Primordial template (Secrets of Xen'drik), which adds one Knowledge skill as a class skill.

[Bullet06320]

stop finding stuff, LOL

its added too, geuss we missed it along the way

[ShurikVch]

Tauric Creature template:

Treat skills from both the base creature's list and the base humanoid's list as class skills.

[Troacctid]

Oh, here's a nice one: affiliation with the Paragnostic Assembly grants you your choice of Appraise, Decipher Script, any Knowledge skill, Psicraft, or Spellcraft as a class skill for all your classes, if you achieve rank 3. You have to tithe and pay monthly dues to maintain your rank. (Complete Champion, pp72–74)

Also, an affiliation score of 11+ with the Land of Honor grants you Knowledge (nobility and royalty) as a class skill. (Player's Handbook II, p175)

[Thurbane]

I think it's pretty awesome that we are finding all these new things to add to a list that was originally started so long ago.

[Bullet06320]

I think it's pretty awesome that we are finding all these new things to add to a list that was originally started so long ago.

it really is amazing, only took most of ten years to complete, lol

and added those affiliations in a new section, and the tauric template

had to do a little more editing for room, the first post is pretty much full now, I had to remove the now dead link to orginal post for a little bit more room but added

Originally posted on the WOTC boards by Griff on Dec 03, 2006
Continued by Bullet06320 and GitP Community

I think that should give proper credit to everyone that has helped to create this reference, as it was a community project

[magicalmagicman]

For me, grabbing Able Learner and getting all the skills you want via prestige classes was the best way. Messing around with apprentice, or various class skill granting feats was a blood bath.

[Bullet06320]

For me, grabbing Able Learner and getting all the skills you want via prestige classes was the best way. Messing around with apprentice, or various class skill granting feats was a blood bath.

every build is different, this merely presents you with the many options available, some are better than others though

[Thurbane]

Sorry to keep bumping the thread, but I've been trawling the Wizards archive lately for various things, and I've just found another addition.

Silverwood Arcanist (PrC) - Skilled Rider (Ex): any future classes you take after one level in this PrC always have Ride as an additional class skill.

[ShurikVch]

I don't sure how useful that can be, but there is Frenzy Dog template

Skills: If the animal didn't already have these skills, it receives them as class skills: Intimidate, Listen, Spot, and Wilderness Lore. All other class skills get lost in the transformation.

[daremetoidareyo]

I don't sure how useful that can be, but there is Frenzy Dog template

Thank you, I will add this to the forms a hound archon can transform into! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...6&postcount=34

[Bullet06320]

I don't sure how useful that can be, but there is Frenzy Dog template

added that one

Sorry to keep bumping the thread, but I've been trawling the Wizards archive lately for various things, and I've just found another addition.

Silverwood Arcanist (PrC) - Skilled Rider (Ex): any future classes you take after one level in this PrC always have Ride as an additional class skill.

no worries about bumping it, if it belongs it belongs, but that one is odd, its from a Prc
kinda like the Human Paragon http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...m#humanParagon
Adaptive Learning (Ex)

At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses Spot as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.

it was originally mentioned in the original thread and again in this thread once or twice

both kinda deserve an honorable mention somewhere, but I'm pretty much at the limit of the first post, ive edited and re edited it several times to save space, any suggestions on working those last 2 in?

[Sian]

I'd exile all Dragon Magazine material to another post and add a link to it, since those are widely considered the 'least' official sources