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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris on a Stick View Post
    I wouldn't count Rey out. Her declaration of "I'm no one." sounds rather... insistent, to me. Pro-tip: If someone declares that they're "no one" at the beginning of a massive fantasy trilogy, they're probably lying or wrong.
    Also, any other characters in the trilogy that you can think of who start as a 'nobody' on a desert planet? A few spring to my mind.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishybugs View Post
    Also, any other characters in the trilogy that you can think of who start as a 'nobody' on a desert planet? A few spring to my mind.
    She's the C3PO of the sequel trilogy?

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    wink Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    She's the C3PO of the sequel trilogy?
    Oh, I was thinking of Watto.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

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    I still think Luke is more likely to die than Han. I had already considered what happened to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, and figured Luke was headed for the same. Also, it serves the same purpose as killing them off: The younger generation coming of age is going to be a theme, and having an old master capable of dealing with the threats around for long takes away from them. The purpose of the Old Master is to give the apprentice(s) an introduction to the Force and then get killed so they have to deal with the conflict themselves, and I don't really expect much else here.


    Also, at some point, someone's hand is going to get chopped off by a lightsaber.
    Last edited by Dire Moose; 2015-10-24 at 02:27 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
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    I still think Luke is more likely to die than Han. I had already considered what happened to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, and figured Luke was headed for the same. Also, it serves the same purpose as killing them off: The younger generation coming of age is going to be a theme, and having an old master capable of dealing with the threats around for long takes away from them. The purpose of the Old Master is to give the apprentice(s) an introduction to the Force and then get killed so they have to deal with the conflict themselves, and I don't really expect much else here.

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    You know, a great explanation for Luke's visual absence from the trailer would be that he's already dead and appears only in recorded holograms. Maybe he recorded the holograms as letters to his descendants, and entrusted them to Han and Chewie.
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    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
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    You know, a great explanation for Luke's visual absence from the trailer would be that he's already dead and appears only in recorded holograms. Maybe he recorded the holograms as letters to his descendants, and entrusted them to Han and Chewie.
    What, he can't ghost?

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    I would not be surprised if Rey turned out to be Luke's daughter and Kylo his son. Listening to the second teaser, while at first I thought they were replaying Luke's family monologue to Leia for dramatic effect, I went back and found that they weren't exactly the same, implying to me that it had been rerecorded, as if he was explaining it to someone else. This intrigues me, as, narratively, it wouldn't make much sense to me to have a Star Wars movie that didn't have a Skywalker as a central character; while dramatically and symbolically, siblinghood has powerful emotional stakes tied to it, which could be exemplified by one idolizing her long-lost father and the other his grandfather, while being reinforced by the symbolic repetition of the two previous examples of siblinghood, in both Luke and Leia (who fought together), and Anakin and Obi-wan (who fought against each other).

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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
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    You know, a great explanation for Luke's visual absence from the trailer would be that he's already dead and appears only in recorded holograms. Maybe he recorded the holograms as letters to his descendants, and entrusted them to Han and Chewie.
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    I don't believe he is missing from the trailer. Who is kneeling, placing their robotic hand on R2-D2?
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    Also, at some point, someone's hand is going to get chopped off by a lightsaber.
    Not until Episode 8. So far there has been no disarming in the first part of a Star Wars trilogy. But that a Skywalker will lose a limb or three is certain. That's kind of their thing. That and being tempted by the Dark Side.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    What, he can't ghost?
    If Luke dies, he'll definitely be able to ghost, he's got three ghosts to teach him how to do it plus maybe the disembodied voice of Qui-Gon if he's still around.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Honestly, I think there's a lot that can be done with Luke's character other than killing him. Since he's obviously not been rebuilding the Jedi order, he's been busy with something else. Maybe he's been doing what Kylo Ren has been doing, namely hunting down Jedi artifacts in an attempt to learn more about the Force. Maybe he's been doing the same by meditating in a hut somewhere. Maybe he decided to leave the Force behind and has been working without it, on the assumption that the universe might just be better off with no Force manipulators whatsoever.

    The point being, the idea that the only thing Luke can do in this story is die, that he has no room to grow and develop over the series, is storytelling at its most didactic and stupid. I have already seen Star Wars remade in paint-by-numbers fashion. It was called Eragon, and quite literally the only joy I got out of that film was shouting out the exact quotation the Star Wars script went with in that same scene. It would be a waste of celluloid to show it again, it would be beneath the writing skill of both Abrams and, as it turns out, Lawrence Kasdan, otherwise known as the guy who salvaged both ANH and ESB's script from the clutches of Lucas, and it would turn me off to the franchise forever.

    I'm not saying it won't be done. I'm not even saying it can't be done well. I am saying that the way Luke is being discussed, as if his only possible function is as a bit part in someone else's hero's journey to be bumped off for the sake of cheap sentimentality, really only makes me hope that the script goes in any direction but that. I dunno, maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but I really do not want the film to be so utterly reductive and derivative as you guys seem to be unquestionably assuming it will.
    Last edited by McStabbington; 2015-10-24 at 04:41 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
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    Also, it serves the same purpose as killing them off: The younger generation coming of age is going to be a theme, and having an old master capable of dealing with the threats around for long takes away from them. .
    Narrative conceptions of mentor-hood aside, there would be a fair amount of resistance to simply casting aside the old generation in this case considering how beloved the characters are. This also sounds more reminiscent of the direction Lucas originally wanted, which was resisted. I think there will be a handing off here, but will more resemble diminishing returns. The old guard will be fairly prominent here, less so as the films go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
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    You know, a great explanation for Luke's visual absence from the trailer would be that he's already dead and appears only in recorded holograms. Maybe he recorded the holograms as letters to his descendants, and entrusted them to Han and Chewie.
    They'd never do this. If Luke were dead, he'd come back in the way the audience most expects. While I've nothing against added texture...holocrons are distinctly inelegant for this purpose. Unless you're planning a fake out where Luke isn't really dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Not until Episode 8. So far there has been no disarming in the first part of a Star Wars trilogy. But that a Skywalker will lose a limb or three is certain. That's kind of their thing. That and being tempted by the Dark Side.
    This is verging on numerology at this point.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    This is verging on numerology at this point.
    What? It is a perfectly reasonable prediction, based of the precedent the previous movies set. Neither in A New Hope nor in The Phantom Menace did any character loose a limb. Logically it follows that the same will be true for The Force Awakens. And no, Darth Maul doesn't count - being drastically shortened isn't the same as a combat amputation.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2015-10-24 at 05:54 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    What? It is a perfectly reasonable prediction, based of the precedent the previous movies set. Neither in A New Hope nor in The Phantom Menace did any character loose a limb. Logically it follows that the same will be true for The Force Awakens. And no, Darth Maul doesn't count - being drastically shortened isn't the same as a combat amputation.
    Heh. Leaving aside my fervent hope there isn't a numeric pattern to events in Star Wars, Obi-wan cuts off the hostile bar patron's arm in Episode 4. And if incidental characters don't count, C3PO loses an arm to a Tusken Raider.
    Last edited by Legato Endless; 2015-10-24 at 06:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Heh. Leaving aside my fervent hope there isn't a numeric pattern to events in Star Wars, Obi-wan cuts off the hostile bar patron's arm in Episode 4. And if incidental characters don't count, C3PO loses an arm to a Tusken Raider.
    Oh, right nevermind then. Time to rewatch the movies. Not that I need a excuse for that.

    Anyway, just for the sake of the argument: The guy in the cantina isn't a character, he is scenery. That the characters interact with him doesn't change that.
    And 3PO? Technically he doesn't loose the arm. After Ben drives the Tusken Raiders away with his disgestion problems by imitating the local wildlife they reattach the thing. That means it was temporary detached, not lost.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2015-10-24 at 06:10 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    It's just not Star Wars if nobody gets anything lopped off by a lightsaber, honestly.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Honestly, with it being so easy to replace hands/limbs, why not cut off a hand or two?

    Any limb replacing, at least for the protagonist, comes at times of great change. Anakin first looses a hand when he decides to forsake the love part of the Jedi code in Episode II. Then he looses all his limbs when he goes all "kicking puppies" type evil. Luke then gets his hand lopped off when he finds out about his dark side father.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    The new trailer has lowered my expectations a bit and dampened my hype. Mostly because it has spawned a few fan theories that I really don't want to be true.

    I absolutely hate the idea of Luke being Kylo Ren. Not only would that undermine the ending of Return of the Jedi, it would show a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars even greater than J.J. Abrams' misunderstanding of Star Trek.

    But there's one idea I hate even more: the possibility that Kylo Ren could be Luke, Han, or Leia's offspring. The absolute last thing Star Wars needs is to make anything resembling Jacen Solo part of the canon. The whole point of tossing out the Expanded Universe and starting over was to start fresh, not to retread some of the worst parts of the existing lore.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Well, we see Kylo Ren's head sans helmet in the trailer (Lighsaber fight w/ Finn) and it clearly isn't Mark Hamill's hair. Unless we are talking some kind of possession-type shenanigans or crazy plastic surgery he can't be Luke.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    I personally believe Kylo isnt Luke.

    But Luke might be Ren. A.k.a. the dude the "Knights of Ren" were named after. Imagine; luke gathers a group of Force-sensitive students, teach them in the Ways of the Force.. Only for them to become corrupted, and form their own little group.

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    In short, don't set your expectations high. If you were disappointed by the prequels, keep that in mind. That way you are more likely to be pleasantly surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Overconfident people live happier lives.
    People who are overconfident in their own abilities or things they have influence over is one thing. People who are overconfident in things they have no influence over AND have significantly disappointed them previously is another.
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I absolutely hate the idea of Luke being Kylo Ren. Not only would that undermine the ending of Return of the Jedi, it would show a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars even greater than J.J. Abrams' misunderstanding of Star Trek.
    I have to confess that this fan hypothesis is totally incomprehensible to me. I mean, we know that Kylo Ren is being played by Adam Driver. To me, it appears as bizarre and groundless as getting worked up over the idea that Han Solo is "Supreme Leader Snoke." Sure, it's remotely theoretically possible, but only in the "maybe Elvis is really still alive -- on Jupiter" kind of way.

    I've even looked up the basis for the hypothesis, and the reasons given are truly specious, IMO. Here are some I came across and my thoughts:

    1. "We haven't seen Luke yet." Yes, other than the guy hanging around with R2D2, with an artificial hand, we haven't seen a single sign of Luke yet.

    2. "Finn is wielding a blue lightsaber, and Luke's lightsaber is blue." In the first place, even if it is Anakin's/Luke's lightsaber, why on Tatooine does that mean that the guy fighting against the guy carrying Luke's lightsaber is Luke? How that leap of illogic is supposed to go is utterly opaque to me. And in the second place, was there only one blue frickin' lightsaber ever?

    3. "Abrams said that each side would see themselves as heroes of the story." Gosh, there's a surprise. Isn't this kind of a very basic philosophical commonplace? And what exactly does that have to do with Luke one way or the other?

    I'm not saying it's impossible Luke is a villain or some such in the new movies; it's just that the stuff saying he's Kylo Ren in particular appears so stretched and contrived to me that to those worried about it, I'd say -- don't worry too much.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    I'm fairly sure Luke's lightsaber is actually green and not blue as from end of ROTJ.

    Sure that saber could be his original one that Anakin his father had before him but I think if necessary Luke knows enough to build himself a new lightsaber if his old one broke...

    Kylo apparently didn't attend school that day!

    I'd rather it turn out Han found Kylo and brought him to the Academy to be trained and Kylo helped the Knights of Ren burn the place down since he's be in the ideal position to let them know Luke wasn't there wouldn't he?

    After all there's only Seven of them and Luke I assume is thought to have taken down both the Emperor and Darth Vader and even if he got Vader to kill the Emperor lets not overlook the late Sith Lords would have made pate out of the Seven or the Knights of Ren by themselves so they definitely not looking to take the last Jedi Master on after burning down his new academy even darksiders know that's a very bad idea!
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2015-10-26 at 08:46 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Maybe they're just waiting for a reveal of Luke for an upcoming trailer.
    Y'know, like how they didn't show Leia in the first trailer, but did in the second.


    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    The absolute last thing Star Wars needs is to make anything resembling Jacen Solo post -Traitor part of the canon.
    FTFY
    Last edited by BWR; 2015-10-26 at 11:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
    I'm fairly sure Luke's lightsaber is actually green and not blue as from end of ROTJ.

    Sure that saber could be his original one that Anakin his father had before him but I think if necessary Luke knows enough to build himself a new lightsaber if his old one broke...
    I'm a little confused on this one. The blue saber, which Anakin lost along the way before constructing his Sith-red version, and which was passed to Luke by old Ben, was dropped down that massive air shaft on Bespin along with Luke's severed hand. Possibly even all the way out of the mining colony and into the gas giant.

    I'd have to watch the scene again to see if it ended up over the same trap-door that plopped Luke onto a handy weather-vane. I seem to remember some random piece of hardware clattering along the slide with him, but it's been a LONG time. Obviously Luke stopped using it immediately after for whatever reason.

    Vader even commented on the green saber:

    [igniting Luke's saber]
    Darth Vader: I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.


    Now, it may be that it ended up in some cranny of mining colony and was rescued. Which, to be honest, is something I've been wondering since 1983. So it would be nifty if it actually appears again.
    Last edited by Fragenstein; 2015-10-26 at 11:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragenstein View Post

    Now, it may be that it ended up in some cranny of mining colony and was rescued. Which, to be honest, is something I've been wondering since 1983. So it would be nifty if it actually appears again.
    The EU certainly did it that way - and it wouldn't be the only EU idea to make it into the newcanon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The EU certainly did it that way - and it wouldn't be the only EU idea to make it into the newcanon.
    And... that leads to my next logical question... did anyone find his hand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Trailer

    Are there any ideas as to why Mark Hamil wasn't on the theatrical poster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragenstein View Post
    And... that leads to my next logical question... did anyone find his hand?
    In the EU, yes. Master C'boath, Thrawn's pet Dark Jedi, found it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    2. "Finn is wielding a blue lightsaber, and Luke's lightsaber is blue." In the first place, even if it is Anakin's/Luke's lightsaber, why on Tatooine does that mean that the guy fighting against the guy carrying Luke's lightsaber is Luke? How that leap of illogic is supposed to go is utterly opaque to me. And in the second place, was there only one blue frickin' lightsaber ever?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragenstein View Post
    I'm a little confused on this one. The blue saber, which Anakin lost along the way before constructing his Sith-red version, and which was passed to Luke by old Ben, was dropped down that massive air shaft on Bespin along with Luke's severed hand. Possibly even all the way out of the mining colony and into the gas giant.

    I'd have to watch the scene again to see if it ended up over the same trap-door that plopped Luke onto a handy weather-vane. I seem to remember some random piece of hardware clattering along the slide with him, but it's been a LONG time. Obviously Luke stopped using it immediately after for whatever reason.

    Vader even commented on the green saber:

    [igniting Luke's saber]
    Darth Vader: I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.


    Now, it may be that it ended up in some cranny of mining colony and was rescued. Which, to be honest, is something I've been wondering since 1983. So it would be nifty if it actually appears again.
    The reasons people are sure that Finn is using Anakin's lightsaber:

    1. Every lightsaber from the OT has a slightly different sound. The first teaser uses the ignition sound from Anakin's lightsaber as a stinger (though it's missing the hum)... though admittedly since then Anakin's lightsaber's sound is reused for most Jedi lightsabers the same way that Vader's is used as the basis for Maul and Dooku's.
    2. In Teaser #2 (the one from SW Celebration 2015), an alien hands someone who is almost definitely Leia a lightsaber that looks exactly like Anakin's.
    3. Look at the lightsaber Finn is holding. You'll have to pause it because there's the closeup of him igniting it and then it cuts to him attacking Kylo Ren, but it has the same features as Anakin's lightsaber.

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