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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    When Tiamat is on the phone, the speech bubble has five pointers.

  2. - Top - End - #242

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    And you can see the five different breath weapons coming through the phone. Now that's fidelity; just like you're really face-to-face with the person you're talking too.

    (Really old phone company reference there, don't worry if you don't get it (just get offa my lawn).)

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    When I used the "IRL" example, my point was not to compare the two worlds.
    Was to compare the two different ways to read the story.
    Judging the story for itself (like we were watching it without "commentaries", like we were "living" it) vs judging the story for what were the intentions of the writer.
    To put it in a simpler, even if a bit more blunt way: I don't care if Rich wanted to show Tarquin as an evil fool, mirroring Elan, if then the story didn't show him that way.
    If the story showed a guy who managed to organize, and so far to accomplish too, the conquest of a good portion of a continent, I judge the guy from it. And the guy so far is history book material.
    No, you're seeing it that way because you aren't understanding the framework of the story. Again, this is a world where knowledge of dramatic structure translates into real power. Elan could potentially conquer an entire continent as Tarquin did, due to his knowledge of story structure. Tarquin is obviously more intelligent than Elan, yes, but he is not the ultra-competent character you are making him out to be. Hell, a very real possiblity exists that, in OotS world, the only reason he was able to succeed was to give Elan character development. Tarquin outright states that he was able to succeed because every story needs a villain, and he was able to capitalize on this. Compare this to Xykon - one of them is the villain because the story needs a villain, so why not him; the other is a villain because he wants power to exert his will over all others. One is genuine, the other is cheap opportunism. Tarquin was now shown to be foolish in the beginning, but rather his character began to show through as the story went on. Tarquin was able to succeed in spite of his military prowess, not because of it. Hell, the one time we see him personally command an army in battle, his entire battle plan boils down to "bring in a really impressive-looking army so I look cool, and then tell everyone to attack indiscriminately." When it doesn't work, he doesn't adapt. When his friends tell him his tactics suck, his reply is "well it wouldn't if I had more guns." He held off the Order, yes, by fighting defensively. He was able to chase them down after they escaped his military. He's decent to fairly adept at small group battles. He's god-awful at military strategy. If you want to read "everybody try to kill these guys" as the be-all, end-all of military genius, I suppose I can't really convince you otherwise.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No, you're seeing it that way because you aren't understanding the framework of the story. Again, this is a world where knowledge of dramatic structure translates into real power. Elan could potentially conquer an entire continent as Tarquin did, due to his knowledge of story structure. Tarquin is obviously more intelligent than Elan, yes, but he is not the ultra-competent character you are making him out to be. Hell, a very real possiblity exists that, in OotS world, the only reason he was able to succeed was to give Elan character development. Tarquin outright states that he was able to succeed because every story needs a villain, and he was able to capitalize on this. Compare this to Xykon - one of them is the villain because the story needs a villain, so why not him; the other is a villain because he wants power to exert his will over all others. One is genuine, the other is cheap opportunism. Tarquin was now shown to be foolish in the beginning, but rather his character began to show through as the story went on. Tarquin was able to succeed in spite of his military prowess, not because of it. Hell, the one time we see him personally command an army in battle, his entire battle plan boils down to "bring in a really impressive-looking army so I look cool, and then tell everyone to attack indiscriminately." When it doesn't work, he doesn't adapt. When his friends tell him his tactics suck, his reply is "well it wouldn't if I had more guns." He held off the Order, yes, by fighting defensively. He was able to chase them down after they escaped his military. He's decent to fairly adept at small group battles. He's god-awful at military strategy. If you want to read "everybody try to kill these guys" as the be-all, end-all of military genius, I suppose I can't really convince you otherwise.
    The way I see it, Tarquin is a fairly competent military commander because having brilliant knowledge of story conventions translates into moderate knowledge of military command. Tarquin does have a number of fairly impressive military feats under his belt, leading his first kingdom to conquer a large portion of a continent, and later directing a variety of successful strikes against independent kingdoms to drive them into the grip of his hidden allies.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    The way I see it, Tarquin isn't completely incompetent - but he isn't a military genius either. He does appear to understand some concepts of war, at least some such as attrition, and the initial plan to conquer the Western Continent appears to be his own (We only have his word, but there was the flashback sequence where he was explaining it), though his companions were there to keep him on track when he might've risked it.

    In small scale combat, Tarquin appears to be rather competent. In his fight against the Order (sans V), sure, he was fighting defensively, but his best friend (who fought beside him for 35 years) knew that he was holding back and was toying with them, and he admitted himself that he wanted to test Elan's fighting capabilities in that fight. His later fight against Julio seemed to be like the two were of about equal strength until Laurin intervened.

    In military tactics... it seems to lean a bit more on the side of not entirely competent. On one hand, he managed to conquer himself a kingdom before being overthrown by a coalition of 26 other countries, and that was before he called in his buddies from the Vector Legion. On the other hand, at the pace kingdoms and empires fall in the Western Continent, it might not mean as much as it could. He is described by Malack as a General of at least a certain calibre ("You don't spend time with a general of Tarquin's calibre without learning a few things about attrition."), though as the quote says, it may be just on the subject of attrition. The actual "military prowess" we've seen first hand in-universe are when he orders his legion to rush Roy, Belkar and "Durkon", which turned into a spectacular failure. However, in a world where story knowledge equals to power, and believing himself to be in the position of the main villain with his son as the hero, he may have thought that his son would have been alright, but that those he considered to be "B-list fodder" would have been killed. Without Malack to keep him straight he went off the rails.

    Perhaps Tarquin does or used to have some knowledge of military and fighting tactics, but they're overshadowed by his knowledge of the story and his need for the dramatic. I suspect that either: a) whoever his partner at the time had the task of keeping him in line, or b) he and Malack were just that close friends. Hence, the attempted dramatic execution scene after Malack's death that failed, and his story tactics working until he comes face-to-face with the heroes. He's far from being the ultimate tactician and fighter he claims to be and likely wasn't the leader of the Vector Legion, but he isn't entirely incompetent either.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zero View Post
    Well, I find the route this thread has taken interesting, at least as a reason to advocate the principle of the "Death of the Author".

    IRL, if we saw the debate between Miron, Laurin and Tarquin, we would have concluded...

    IRL, we would have never doubted of the authority of Tarquin within his group... (etc.)
    Either stop the bus or clarify that by "we" you mean "me and the mouse in my pocket."

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Either stop the bus or clarify that by "we" you mean "me and the mouse in my pocket."
    Me and whoever agrees with me. That's, to say, probably whoever inserts conquerors' and generals' names in history books.
    You, of course, think differently. That's fair. But not every group of persons needs you to be a group.

    This just to close the argument, since it has derailed the original thread already too much.
    Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2016-02-06 at 07:22 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    I noticed in 315, in the next-to-last panel, you can just barely see that Celia has already been hypnotized by the bug zapper- her eyes have gone blue & swirly, but it's hard to see because they're at the very top of the frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    The joke the Oracle makes to the Ancient Black Dragon about Roy in #628 is pretty funny, but I never noticed until now that that meeting was set up in #572, when the Oracle tells Roy he has "an important client flying in." (emphasis mine)

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    I was re-reading the battle of Azure City and noticed something. Back in 462, the hilt of O-Chul's katana is gray in Miko's hands. Then I checked back a few pages and noticed it was always gray. (447 gives a good view, as well as some other colors.)
    Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.

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    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    I noticed in 315, in the next-to-last panel, you can just barely see that Celia has already been hypnotized by the bug zapper- her eyes have gone blue & swirly, but it's hard to see because they're at the very top of the frame.
    Actually they're blue but not swirly yet.
    THE SCRYING EYE AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    When Belkar escapes from solitary in the Azure City prison, he slams the guard against the top of the panel when he jumps out of his pit/cell... in other words, the top of the panel is also the ceiling of the room. Wow.

    I had never noticed that.
    If only there were a thread for posting things I had never noticed.... wait, what?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    When Belkar escapes from solitary in the Azure City prison, he slams the guard against the top of the panel when he jumps out of his pit/cell... in other words, the top of the panel is also the ceiling of the room. Wow.

    I had never noticed that.
    If only there were a thread for posting things I had never noticed.... wait, what?!
    Its difficult to tell, but he might also be slamming him against the back wall. The little lines representing the impact don't seem to lend themselves to being slammed against a ceiling.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    It also appears that some of his helmet is behind the panel border. Hard to tell though.
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    Did... did we break the universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    It is a major flaw in the game. Destroy a moon? Sure. Talk to somebody a hundred miles away, that's going to be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    In 1021, panel 8 - when Blackwing says his line to V, normally NPCs are spoken by the GM. So - yeah, you could say that's the GM saying that to the player. Which is quite funny when thought of as a "fourth wall break" joke in addition to the regular text.

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Markozeta View Post
    In 1021, panel 8 - when Blackwing says his line to V, normally NPCs are spoken by the GM. So - yeah, you could say that's the GM saying that to the player. Which is quite funny when thought of as a "fourth wall break" joke in addition to the regular text.
    There is explicitly no GM in Stickworld.
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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Its difficult to tell, but he might also be slamming him against the back wall. The little lines representing the impact don't seem to lend themselves to being slammed against a ceiling.
    You seem to be right. But the angle of his helmet looks as if he's hitting the ceiling. Maybe he's wedging into the corner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    I just noticed that dwarves have two livers.
    "Really? The premature villain gloat? I'm a failure as a parent." - Loki, OotS #1012
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrous View Post
    I just noticed that dwarves have two livers.
    Similarly, rereading this strip I also noticed that Miko and Vaarsuvius both take notice of the silliness that potion dosages don't need to be adjusted for body weight.

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

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    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
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    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.


    Check this game out! Or at least give it a thumbs up.
    Why "because the plot said so" is not a good answer.

  21. - Top - End - #261
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Similarly, rereading this strip I also noticed that Miko and Vaarsuvius both take notice of the silliness that potion dosages don't need to be adjusted for body weight.
    You can also see one of the potions V chucked down Bloodfeast's throat is a potion of Heroism - I guess V still has a bunch of those from the shop.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Good catch. I wasn't sure at first because another archer's arrows were very close in color, but upon closer inspection, close is not the same.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    St Fan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    I've just realized something from very early in the comic:

    In strip #9, V is casting Identify on the Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity.

    Except... the ogre/ogress that was wearing it had returned to her true form after it being taken off. Thus, it should have been quite obvious what kind of magical item it was. That was a complete waste of an Identify spell.

    I know failing Spot Checks in the Order's favorite sport, but come on...
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    DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.


    "Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."

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  24. - Top - End - #264
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    I've just realized something from very early in the comic:

    In strip #9, V is casting Identify on the Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity.

    Except... the ogre/ogress that was wearing it had returned to her true form after it being taken off. Thus, it should have been quite obvious what kind of magical item it was. That was a complete waste of an Identify spell.

    I know failing Spot Checks in the Order's favorite sport, but come on...
    Do you go around examining dead ogres any more than you have to in order to remove their magic items?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  25. - Top - End - #265
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    I've just realized something from very early in the comic:

    In strip #9, V is casting Identify on the Girdle of Feminity/Masculinity.

    Except... the ogre/ogress that was wearing it had returned to her true form after it being taken off. Thus, it should have been quite obvious what kind of magical item it was. That was a complete waste of an Identify spell.

    I know failing Spot Checks in the Order's favorite sport, but come on...
    Besides, it's V. The gender-flip could have gone unnoticed. Though I'm not sure if V's gender's ambiguity was already a thing by this point.

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    One of the reasons Wrecan's parting speech is so powerful; it's not directed at Roy. Wrecan is looking into the camera, addressing the Oots audience, basically telling us 'seize the day, because who knows if there'll be a tomorrow?'
    I admit full culpability for Phyrnglsnyx

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rift_Wolf View Post
    One of the reasons Wrecan's parting speech is so powerful; it's not directed at Roy. Wrecan is looking into the camera, addressing the Oots audience, basically telling us 'seize the day, because who knows if there'll be a tomorrow?'
    Well, that's intended, but he really is talking to Roy, just that we are in Roy's viewpoint there.
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Well, that's intended, but he really is talking to Roy, just that we are in Roy's viewpoint there.
    It's similar to the first line in The Force Awakens

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    "This will begin to make things right."

    Sure, the character who spoke these lines was technically talking about a map, but we all know he was really apologizing to the audience for the prequel trilogy.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rift_Wolf View Post
    One of the reasons Wrecan's parting speech is so powerful; it's not directed at Roy. Wrecan is looking into the camera, addressing the Oots audience, basically telling us 'seize the day, because who knows if there'll be a tomorrow?'
    This deep sentence makes for an interesting contrast to your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    This deep sentence makes for an interesting contrast to your signature.
    I'm on the mobile site, so can't change my outdated signature! If I could I'd admit culpability for Phyrnglsnyx. And the result of my 'press the middle button fifteen times' (which is 'I am a beautiful person who is the best way to stop a siege rhino.').
    I admit full culpability for Phyrnglsnyx

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