Orcs: Dos and Don'ts!

[Grim Portent]

Why do they have to be omnivores?

It makes more sense for a large population of creatures (which is needed for Orcs to be a Horde species) to be herbivores or omnivores. Carnivores can't sustain large populations very easily due to the whole trophic levels thing.

A diet of meat from hunted and herded animals, fish and seasonal vegetation supplemented by food gained from raiding makes for a more believable race than if they just eat everything fleshy they encounter like a swarm of Tyranids.

[Corsair]

The problem is functionally two fold. The first issue is an Orc's stats. Those penalties to both Intelligence and Charisma (if we go by 3.5 standards) don't speak kindly of any society. Rather than implying that that look at the world in a different light (or rather in different series of different lights depending on the tribe) they're accepted as outright stupid. Which pertains to their own society as well. That Intelligence penalty demonstrates they don't have as clear understanding of the world around them as anyone else. This includes understandings of the world that they themselves hold, which may be unique to them. There were a great many things that non-Natives did not understand about the American continents, every bit as much as the Natives did not understand about Europe. Simply put, under the existing system they have trouble learning anything, including knowledge that is specifically oriented towards themselves. This pressures them into the 'unenlightened barbarians' that both Orcs and Natives have been presented as. But that is only presentation, not necessarily truth.

Then of course their Charisma penalty means that, as a societal whole, they are less capable of, and thus less likely, to strike a deal or be personable. This, in direct contrast to the many hundreds of treaties the Native Americans signed with the Europeans (England, France, Canada, USA), which were generally broken or ignored by the Europeans. In many cases, this lead to bloodshed on both sides. In others, things were eventually worked out...after a some Natives died due to hunger or other conditions that should not have existed if the Europeans groups had bothered to enforce the treaties (as examples, see the Sandy Lake Tragedy and Sand Creek Massacre). If Native America as a whole suffered from the same Charisma penalty as an Orc, it's fairly unlikely they would have tried to reach a social understanding of the Europeans. This may have lead to a very different history. For example, one potential outcome results in Native Americans killing every outsider who stepped on native soil on sight. As history tells us, this is usually the opposite of what happened.

The second issue, after the stat line up, is that it dehumanizes Native American culture. Since Natives are now Orcs, and not humans, they do not garner the same respect given humans (or elves...or dwarves). This allows players to ignore the social and political issues that they have gone through since European Contact and proceed to engage in another rousing round of Manifest Destiny, in which the now Native American themed Orcs are still slaughtered by the dozens by the average adventuring party. Functionally, it's a repeat and reskin of one of history's many darker moments. While there are some players who might take the bait and sympathize with the Orcs, their stats make any lasting improvement difficult. Most players, at least in my experience, won't get within earshot of an Orc without having explicit reason to kill it and every one of its associates.

Natives deserve to be run as Human, with the respect and dignity allotted to any other group, be it African, Asian, European, in any and all related sub-groups. Put another way: Why should Natives be Orcs, when every other human group is allowed to be Human?

Though, naturally, the above also applies to any and all other groups who would be placed in a related situation.

*Edit: Provided links to examples in text.

The statistical part I hadn't considered, and if I did do this the Orcs would probably have their stats heavily altered. Regarding the other factors...I don't agree. It's not uncommon to base Dwarven culture off a grab bag of Scottish, Norse, Mesopotamian, and Jewish culture. I'm not saying you take the Cherokee or Mohawks or any Native tribe and make them dudes with big teeth and green skin, but borrowing cultural elements from the Native Americans seems no more inherently offensive than borrowing elements from the Norse or Jews. In this circumstance I think I'd probably go for a combination of Apaches and Celts, with some Gaulic influence - Vercingetorix has a kind of Orky sound to it.

Again, I would not run this with a generic pick up group, I'd want to run this with a fairly thoughtful crowd - i.e., people who don't play Murderhobo.

Thinking about this further - I think I'd have their stats be the same as Human in this plot idea, literally identical, but Humans would talk about them like they were typical D&D Orcs - strong, but ugly and stupid. Basically the standard fantasy orc would be the racist caricature of them. Maybe even go as far as having them be just an offshoot of Humans that has been dehumanized to the point that most Humans believe that they are an entirely different species.

[VoxRationis]

It makes more sense for a large population of creatures (which is needed for Orcs to be a Horde species) to be herbivores or omnivores. Carnivores can't sustain large populations very easily due to the whole trophic levels thing.

A diet of meat from hunted and herded animals, fish and seasonal vegetation supplemented by food gained from raiding makes for a more believable race than if they just eat everything fleshy they encounter like a swarm of Tyranids.

It would explain why orcs are so persistent in invading other lands if their reproductive rate frequently outstripped their local food supplies. The dangerous-but-unorganized hordes could be easily explained as a sort of aggressive refugee movement.
Furthermore, remember that the "horde" might not be as large as all that, depending on your orcs. High mobility or superior concentration of force can give the illusion of a larger group; if 10,000 orcs come down from their territories through a single pass, the force will look overwhelming to local garrisons, even if the total military strength of the human land they're ravaging is ten times that number.

[Grim Portent]

It would explain why orcs are so persistent in invading other lands if their reproductive rate frequently outstripped their local food supplies. The dangerous-but-unorganized hordes could be easily explained as a sort of aggressive refugee movement.

The problem with that is that the process of them outstripping their food supply would completely destroy their local ecosystem since it would involve eating all large animals native to their lands (there's a few examples of this happening in real life) and result in them being unable to repopulate properly when they starve to death or die in wars due to an absence of prey species.

If animals make up a portion of their diet they can sustain themselves better when food becomes scarce and they decide to emigrate elsewhere. Tubers, edible grasses, nuts and so on keep far better than preserved meat does during seasons when food is scarce and are less dangerous to gather for groups that have no healthy youngsters to gather food, such as elderly, pregnant or juvenile individuals left behind when the battle ready males and females have gone off to raid and conquer, meaning that if the healthy ones don't come back after being filled with arrows by the nearby elves/decapitated by dwarves/run down by human cavalry the scraps of their people left behind can scrape a living from the soil and nurse their resentment for a few generations, in the meantime the low orc population would let the other animals repopulate, assuming orcs are the only major predator around.

[Segev]

Now, among Orcs, all this was understood. It was an ingrained part of their culture. The more somebody looked like they were trying to show off, the less they wanted to fight you, and the more they respected you. But, this led to problems when interacting with Humans and other cultures.
The Humans would send a small, unarmed delegation who would arrive under a flag of truce. The Orcs would bring a mighty warband, and the Chief would act like he was always seconds away from ripping the human's heads off.
even if both sides were aware of how the other operated on a conscious level, any interaction would be subconsciously poisoned. The Humans would feel like Orcs were brutish savages who respect nothing but violence, and the Orcs would feel that the Humans were arrogant and too proud to show proper respect.

You know, this could lead to other, interesting interactions.

An orc chieftan, out to prove just how little he respects these pathetic humans, finds himself amazingly honored by the enormous efforts to which they went to impress him with their strength. The human king, wanting to cow the orcs into submission and hoping to provoke them to a declaration of war so he wouldn't look like he "started" it to his neighboring kingdoms (who he hoped would side with him in the war), was amazed by the civility of the orc chieftan.

This leads to a much more pleasant interaction than either side expected, and despite both of their expectations, the leaders of each side are amazed to have walked away with the beginnings of détente.

[Ralanr]

You know, this could lead to other, interesting interactions.

An orc chieftan, out to prove just how little he respects these pathetic humans, finds himself amazingly honored by the enormous efforts to which they went to impress him with their strength. The human king, wanting to cow the orcs into submission and hoping to provoke them to a declaration of war so he wouldn't look like he "started" it to his neighboring kingdoms (who he hoped would side with him in the war), was amazed by the civility of the orc chieftan.

This leads to a much more pleasant interaction than either side expected, and despite both of their expectations, the leaders of each side are amazed to have walked away with the beginnings of détente.

This sounds hilarious in action.

[BRC]

You know, this could lead to other, interesting interactions.

An orc chieftan, out to prove just how little he respects these pathetic humans, finds himself amazingly honored by the enormous efforts to which they went to impress him with their strength. The human king, wanting to cow the orcs into submission and hoping to provoke them to a declaration of war so he wouldn't look like he "started" it to his neighboring kingdoms (who he hoped would side with him in the war), was amazed by the civility of the orc chieftan.

This leads to a much more pleasant interaction than either side expected, and despite both of their expectations, the leaders of each side are amazed to have walked away with the beginnings of détente.

The real question is, what happens at the next meeting. Now that both sides respect each other, they're both going to try to be Polite.

Unless both sides just double down on the next meeting. The King brought his bodyguards before, now he's bringing an entire cohort of knights, and he refuses to get off his horse for the entire meeting. The Chieftain meanwhile makes a big show of handing his weapons off to the guards and wears a big flowing robe that is totally impractical for a fight.

[VoxRationis]

The problem with that is that the process of them outstripping their food supply would completely destroy their local ecosystem since it would involve eating all large animals native to their lands (there's a few examples of this happening in real life) and result in them being unable to repopulate properly when they starve to death or die in wars due to an absence of prey species.

I'm failing to see the problem with that. It's why they come from wastelands (it's a wasteland after they get through with it) and it's why they are so determined to invade. They destroy the local ecosystem and move to a different local ecosystem just before total starvation ensues. It's not a great game plan, but orcs aren't necessarily very smart.

[Grim Portent]

I'm failing to see the problem with that. It's why they come from wastelands (it's a wasteland after they get through with it) and it's why they are so determined to invade. They destroy the local ecosystem and move to a different local ecosystem just before total starvation ensues. It's not a great game plan, but orcs aren't necessarily very smart.

The first time they fail to conquer new lands would basically result in their extinction, making them a one off threat rather than a recurring one.

[Hawkstar]

The first time they fail to conquer new lands would basically result in their extinction, making them a one off threat rather than a recurring one.

Not really. They just splinter into more more managable numbers rhroughout non-wastelands and hang out in dungeons to raid more local areas.

[Ralanr]

The real question is, what happens at the next meeting. Now that both sides respect each other, they're both going to try to be Polite.

Unless both sides just double down on the next meeting. The King brought his bodyguards before, now he's bringing an entire cohort of knights, and he refuses to get off his horse for the entire meeting. The Chieftain meanwhile makes a big show of handing his weapons off to the guards and wears a big flowing robe that is totally impractical for a fight.

Is no one else finding this scene hilarious?!

[NovenFromTheSun]

I agree. BRC's idea is realy cool and could lead to a lot of funny situations like that.

EDIT: Guys, I've got it!

In the Fall of every tenth year, the orcs come. They raid the towns and cities for people to kill, but never steal any supplies; and all the while they hurl vicious insults with a surprising grasp of their victims language. Yet rarely do they kill everyone in a single settlement, even when it would be easy to; and when they capture someone to torture, the victim almost always lives and eventually recovers.

Eventually their victims manage to halt the invasion and greatly reduce the orcs' numbers. With minds filled with revenge, the past victims go out to the orc homes to finish them off. The people of the surrounding lands hear of their victory, and breath easier knowing there's one less threat.

But the orcs always reemerge, this time bearing the weapons and armor of the soldiers sent to slaughter them. This has happened even when multiple eye witnesses confirm that said soldiers lived and succeeded. But if anyone who knew the names of the soldiers listened to the orcs talk amongst themselves, they'd soon recognized they names the orcs call eachother....

[Grim Portent]

Not really. They just splinter into more more managable numbers rhroughout non-wastelands and hang out in dungeons to raid more local areas.

But then you've lost the main distinguishing point between them and the other two dozen small scale bandit races, if there's no Horde (or Sauronesque Dark Lords army) then why bother with orcs when gnolls, or goblins, or sahuagin, or human bandits etc can fill the same role just as well?

[Wardog]

Eh...Taurin are more Native American. Orcs feel more african.

I thought they seemed more like Huns. (Not as much as the Centaurs though).


Anyway, thinking about Talion's post about why Orcs = Native Americans is bad on multiple levels:

What about doing the reverse: Orcs are the colonizers. They turn up. Then more of them turn up. And more. And more. And they come first to plunder, then to settle, without caring who was there first. And disease follows them (and sweeps ahead of them). They care nothing for the environment, having to push on after they have exhausted the land. Throw in some "Manifest Destiny" type ideology to that makes them think it is entierly natural and good for them to sweep away everyone in their path.

To be a really accurate analogy they would need a technological advantage, which doesn't fit the typical portrayal of orcs, but isn't unprecidented (and in fact goes all the way back to The Hobbit).

[Florian]

I'm working on a setting for my next campaign, where people commonly call Orcs "Ghouls" because they don't know better, based on the association with eating the dead.

In this setting, Orcs are part of a bioweapon experiment gone bonkers.
There're hives, with workers, queen an all that, pretty much able to sustain themselves, and the orcs being the mind- and genderless attack and assault drones of those hives.
During summer, Orcs start to swarm. They don't need to coordonate or communicate,mas they're connected by a low-level hive mind. By assaulting and eating their enemies, they fullfil the hives goal of sampling as much DNA as possible, maybe even copying brains/personality of the victims, to grow stronger Orc drones every year.
Now, this bioweapon is flawed bevause the individual Orcs absorbing the DNA and possible personality evolve by doing that and slowly stop being mindless, slipping out of the hive mind, believing to be a non-Orc person.

[Hawkstar]

I thought they seemed more like Huns. (Not as much as the Centaurs though).


Anyway, thinking about Talion's post about why Orcs = Native Americans is bad on multiple levels:

What about doing the reverse: Orcs are the colonizers. They turn up. Then more of them turn up. And more. And more. And they come first to plunder, then to settle, without caring who was there first. And disease follows them (and sweeps ahead of them). They care nothing for the environment, having to push on after they have exhausted the land. Throw in some "Manifest Destiny" type ideology to that makes them think it is entierly natural and good for them to sweep away everyone in their path.

To be a really accurate analogy they would need a technological advantage, which doesn't fit the typical portrayal of orcs, but isn't unprecidented (and in fact goes all the way back to The Hobbit).

Then what do you do about the 'innocent' noncombatant colonist orcs who fuel the conquest?

[Ralanr]

I thought they seemed more like Huns. (Not as much as the Centaurs though).

To be a really accurate analogy they would need a technological advantage, which doesn't fit the typical portrayal of orcs, but isn't unprecidented (and in fact goes all the way back to The Hobbit).

Didn't Tolkien regret not expanding/giving the orcs a culture beyond raiding?

Really I only consider them African when I look at their ways of building and their wild life. It's not the best way of looking at it, since this makes me think Night Elves are Japanese.

[FabulousFizban]

The words "Barbaric" and "Barbarian" themselves were originally racist terms to refer to everyone that wasn't Greek, derived from how Greeks would make fun of how their foreign languages sounded. It had nothing to do with their behavior, but since all foreigners were demonized in general, it was implied that they were also all stupid, brutish, violent and scary as well as talking funny. The Romans and later civilizations of course also held this view.

So yeah, orcs are the incarnation of everything ancient Greek and Roman people used to believe about those scary uncultured foreigners. Their racist cultural imagination/nightmare come to life.

which is why I model my orcs after the Scythians. Nomadic raiders, drink the blood of their enemies, sew scalps into their cloaks, poisoned arrows, drug fueled rituals, ritual sacrifice of honored elders, what more do you want?

I keep the exquisite craftsmanship and sexual equality too, orcs deserve good things as well as terrifying things.

One thing I keep that nobody can ever make sense of is the sun worship, but it makes sense to me. In a culture that worships strength, why wouldn't orcs worship (or at least try to appease) the one enemy they can never defeat?

EDIT: Also, orc barbarians on armored horses? I'D run the **** away.

[Talion]

I thought they seemed more like Huns. (Not as much as the Centaurs though).


Anyway, thinking about Talion's post about why Orcs = Native Americans is bad on multiple levels:

What about doing the reverse: Orcs are the colonizers. They turn up. Then more of them turn up. And more. And more. And they come first to plunder, then to settle, without caring who was there first. And disease follows them (and sweeps ahead of them). They care nothing for the environment, having to push on after they have exhausted the land. Throw in some "Manifest Destiny" type ideology to that makes them think it is entierly natural and good for them to sweep away everyone in their path.

To be a really accurate analogy they would need a technological advantage, which doesn't fit the typical portrayal of orcs, but isn't unprecidented (and in fact goes all the way back to The Hobbit).

That could be interesting (naturally assuming we're not picking exclusively on the English or the French or the Spanish or whoever). It's in line with the usual orcish style of violence and conquest, but it still opens up some new avenues. For example, their ability to colonize through conquest means they might look into short term solutions such as treaties, which are rendered moot when convenient. It also implies a level of advancement on many fronts that separates them from the usual mindless orc marauders. In this instance, most of what they're doing is no worse than what any other group does to its rivals. It's just that they're winning this time.

From a 3.5 perspective, they're not well attuned for Wizardry or Sorcery. It's not impossible, but it's definitely difficult. But they're neutral on Wisdom, which opens them up for Divine spells through Paladins, Rangers, and Clerics. Which reinforces that "Manifest Destiny" ideology as well as opening the option to have their rivals convert to the Orcish religion(s) in exchange for a variety of benefits. They're also still excellent Fighters and Barbarians, which is just fine and dandy for exploring and conquering frontier and border territories.

The good news is that they wouldn't have to invent the technology themselves. They would just have to have enough advantages, and time, to accrue meaningfully more advanced technology than the people they hope to conquer, while using their brute force and sheer numbers to keep their own more advanced rivals at bay. This sets them up at an interesting position in which they have a great deal of natural resources thanks to their conquests, which are traded for more advanced technology that they could eventually build themselves at the same or reduced quality. By extension, this means there's at least one other major group that is not their enemy. It could be something unusual, such as an Elf/Orc team up for sheer shock value, or perhaps a Dwarf/Orc team up by playing on their mutual dislike of Elves and inclination towards the efficiency. Maybe something else altogether, such as a team up with Gnomes, who in my experience don't have a lot going on to begin with besides being 'weird' and 'tinkers'. Which, coincidentally, very nicely ties in with the Orcs technological needs. Humans could be played on both sides, as well as a fully neutral side and a side that sticks with whoever is winning at the time.

However, this also doesn't mean that all the Orcs have to necessarily get along either. While the new colonies and frontier areas are ripe for conquest, they need a lot of work put into them to become profitable, and taking the already worked and built up territories from other orcs is still a viable option, especially if there are particularly juicy targets such as a favorable deep water port or a well known mining site. This deepens the political waters of the campaign and gives the non-colony groups, whoever they are, their own ace in the hole, on top of any foreign allies. Similarly, it could end up in a situation like the United States and Britain, in which the colonizing Orcs no longer wish to be under the rule of the original orcish empire and start up a rebellion of their own.

[VoxRationis]

From a 3.5 perspective, they're not well attuned for Wizardry or Sorcery. It's not impossible, but it's definitely difficult. But they're neutral on Wisdom,

Little nitpick here: 3.5 orcs have Wisdom penalties.

[Grim Portent]

Then what do you do about the 'innocent' noncombatant colonist orcs who fuel the conquest?

Put them to the sword or enslave them like you would any other group serving the same role?

At least that's what most of my character's would do, but then I don't normally play character's that could be called heroes.

[Talion]

Little nitpick here: 3.5 orcs have Wisdom penalties.

Ah. My mistake. I'm a little rusty.

Looking at their racial bonuses proper...it's really sad, actually. Orcs are very much pressed into being Barbarians or Fighters. A hit to every mental stat like that really does limit their playing capacity. They could reasonably stand a more roleplay friendly rebalancing.

Though functionally speaking it doesn't necessarily invalidate the entirety of the above. An Orc/Some Other Race team up to give them a proper technological edge to make up for their magical short comings would have some nice potential and move them out of the senseless evil barbarian territory.

Edit: I think I just got my lines crossed with Orcs and Half-Orcs, since my previous statements used the correct stats for a Half-Orc.

[RossN]

Looking at their racial bonuses proper...it's really sad, actually. Orcs are very much pressed into being Barbarians or Fighters. A hit to every mental stat like that really does limit their playing capacity. They could reasonably stand a more roleplay friendly rebalancing.

It's game/setting balance. Orcs are already stronger and tougher than humans and breed just as fast (unlike Dwarves who are also stronger than humans but take a long time to reach adulthood and have fewer children to boot.) If Orcs were as smart as humans too then Orcs would rule the world and probably have driven everyone else to extinction.

[Segev]

If you wanted a second race to go along with the orcs-as-colonizers which explains the greater technical advantage, give them their traditional whipping boys: goblins. Goblins are often portrayed as technically inclined, and have human-level intellect and wisdom. Orcs just happen to wield the weapons the goblins build.

[Talion]

It's game/setting balance. Orcs are already stronger and tougher than humans and breed just as fast (unlike Dwarves who are also stronger than humans but take a long time to reach adulthood and have fewer children to boot.) If Orcs were as smart as humans too then Orcs would rule the world and probably have driven everyone else to extinction.

I'd say its more indicative of poor mechanics than it is of balance. Or rather, that it's not a balance issue with Orcs as much as it is a balance issue of Strength vs Charisma, Intelligence, AND Wisdom. Honestly speaking I'd probably run Orcs with the Half-Orc stats and figure out something for Half-Orcs if someone really wanted to play them (given that they're the odd group out anyway, since we aren't given the base stats of Half-Halflings, Half-Gnomes, or Half-Dwarves out the door, even though there's nothing to dissuade that possibility. Half-Elves are still a bit strange, but at least have precedent through Tolkien and others.) Of course through Tolkien we have a race of Super Orcs in the form of Uruk-hai, which would probably need a +1 level adjustment.

Going by the 3.5 stats Goblins are overall weaker, but at least don't suffer Intelligence and Wisdom penalties. They wouldn't be a bad match to go along with Orcs. It would still be interesting to see things shaken up a bit and give either side another ally of some kind with a sort of mutual "I'm using you to further my own cause" mentality.

[RossN]

I'd say its more indicative of poor mechanics than it is of balance. Or rather, that it's not a balance issue with Orcs as much as it is a balance issue of Strength vs Charisma, Intelligence, AND Wisdom. Honestly speaking I'd probably run Orcs with the Half-Orc stats and figure out something for Half-Orcs if someone really wanted to play them (given that they're the odd group out anyway, since we aren't given the base stats of Half-Halflings, Half-Gnomes, or Half-Dwarves out the door, even though there's nothing to dissuade that possibility. Half-Elves are still a bit strange, but at least have precedent through Tolkien and others.) Of course through Tolkien we have a race of Super Orcs in the form of Uruk-hai, which would probably need a +1 level adjustment.

Going by the 3.5 stats Goblins are overall weaker, but at least don't suffer Intelligence and Wisdom penalties. They wouldn't be a bad match to go along with Orcs. It would still be interesting to see things shaken up a bit and give either side another ally of some kind with a sort of mutual "I'm using you to further my own cause" mentality.

I'm not sure I'd give Tolkien's 'normal' Orcs a Strength bonus at all; they didn't seem any more physically capable than humans. The existing super strong, seven foot tall D&D Orc is a Uruk-hai with mental penalties. In many ways D&D Hobgoblins are much more like Tolkein Orcs than D&D Orcs are.

Oddly in D&D there isn't really anything to fill the niche between the weedy but relatively smart smart Goblin and the brainless but brawny Orc.

[Rockphed]

The "Tears of Blood" setting that the forum developed ten years ago included Mezo-american Orcs who could run faster and longer than other races. I don't remember if they had the ritual sacrifice of their enemies thing, but the cataclysmic event, "The Weeping", was held at bay best by those willing to go full monster on their population. I think one of the suggestions was to have Orcs wandering the lands of the other races comment on how barbaric everything was. I can't even remember what racial modifiers were given to them.

On the other hand, in my Tanistar setting, Orcs are the primary denizens of the deserts to the south-west. As opposed to the humans who dominate the plains and coasts to the east and the Elves and Dwarves who dominate the forests and mountains to the north. Their civilization is Bedouin-ish; they are a collection of loose tribes of shepherds. Well, maybe not sheep. At any rate, they worship the Raven God Corvitch, master of Darkness, Protection, Water, and Secrets. Corvitch is also the favorite of the Dwarves. The Elves and Humans worship Istaria, the Golden God of the Sun/Fire, Wrath, Healing, and Judgement. As you can imagine, both the Church of Corvitch and the Church of Istaria claim to represent the true good god while the other is an unholy terror bent on destroying civilization and all life.

[JetThomasBoat]

DO: make sexual dimporphism a thing among orcs. Switch it on its head and have the females be the bigger, stronger ones. If you're one that needs to have some kind of reasoning for why they are different than humans in that regard, what with the whole bipedal thing, maybe they have much shorter pregnancies or give birth to much smaller young they carry in pouches or something. If you want orcs to be not just green humans, go nuts with it. Why can't they marsupials?

DO: rework the orc's stats to be something you're more comfortable with. I'm going to for a setting of mine.

DON'T: have them only have green skin.

In the setting I'm working on, orcs are native to earth, but elves come from the plane of fairie, which I know is pretty common, but in my mythology, a fey lord was supposed to meet them on earth to teach them druidic magic to help them control a much more dormant world around them. But basically, the fey lord got lost and he'd never actually seen the elves before, so when he ran into orcs, he was like "Yeah, these are probably who I'm looking for" and he taught them druid magic instead. Then basically, they get in a land dispute. I always kind of thought it was weird that elves got to be more in tune with nature and really good at arcane magic, which is often shown in fantasy to not be harmonious with nature.

So in my setting, through an accident, I'm literally taking away the elf's connection to nature. They subsititute this by developing or being given arcane magic (haven' worked that out yet) and through more expansion and trade, the elves start to get the upper hand. Until the orcs are approached by a bastard god that promises to win them the war if they turn from their reverence of nature to being wholly devoted to him.

So in my setting there are both kinds of orcs. And the time frame is short enough since the war has ended that the orcs are only just now realizing that their god's call for relentless conquest will never be sustainable.

[LnGrrrR]

I've come to question the value of these threads. I'll sum up the majority of posts that tend to occur:

DO: Make them something other than orcs.

DON'T: Make them even vaguely orcish.

I chuckled. There are settings where there is a lot of gray area. (Eberron for instance.) Then there's "generic" DnD, in which Orcs are evil an you kill them because of it. There's nothing wrong with the former, or latter; it just suits different play styles. Sometimes it's easier to just make races evil. Sometimes I just want to swing around a pretend sword on Firday nights without having to pretend grieve for a pretend Orc wife with three pretend Orc babies, who will now never have a pretend Orc father ever see them graduate from pretend Orc college.

[VoxRationis]

I've come to question the value of these threads. I'll sum up the majority of posts that tend to occur:

DO: Make them something other than orcs.

DON'T: Make them even vaguely orcish.

No kidding.