Strong Female Protagonist II

[Vinyadan]

OK, here is a proposal of mine.

The English language isn't equipped to use "they" as a third person singular personal pronoun. The reason is that "they" already is a third person personal pronoun, but indicating plurality. They has also been used for a very long time as an indefinite personal pronoun; but indefinite is radically different, as a function, from singular: it actually doesn't demarcate anything in the plural - singular axis. The English language also has no demarcation for person in most verbal forms, with the exception of past of the verb be and the third singular indicative present. In all other cases, any verbal form could refer to any person. Using they as a singular therefore ends up being fully undistinguishable from use as a plural in most cases.

Historically, third person personal pronouns have been strictly associated with demonstrative pronouns, as well as articles. Why not to just use this or that with their plural forms, instead of they? Or why not to use a common noun which refers to a human being without gender connotation and use that, together with its plural form, instead of they?

[Yuki Akuma]

Because singular "they" has been used since the 1300s, change for the sake of change is stupid, and no one's going to switch to speaking in a different way just because you want them to.

English isn't French. People will speak the way they want to, and nobody has the right to say they're wrong.

[Traab]

I just took "they" as a gender neutral third person singular pronoun.

Its a good guess and would be highly likely if this was anything but what it is. With this comic there is no way to be sure. I am leaning towards the deep space nine trill symbiote angle myself. :p

[Vinyadan]

Because singular "they" has been used since the 1300s, change for the sake of change is stupid, and no one's going to switch to speaking in a different way just because you want them to.

English isn't French. People will speak the way they want to, and nobody has the right to say they're wrong.

Singular they isn't a mere singular, it's an indefinite. Find me an example of use as singular without the indefinite function being expressed earlier.

People apparently speak the way they are told (writing guidelines), otherwise they as a definite gender neutral singular personal pronoun would never have imposed itself.

To be clearer, "somebody told Jim how they had become rich selling hay" is the indefinite form, "Paula told Jim how they had become rich selling hay" is the definite form, the one for which I wish there was a better pronoun. I am actually surprised people don't seem to notice the difference in meaning.

[The_Snark]

Singular they isn't a mere singular, it's an indefinite. Find me an example of use as singular without the indefinite function being expressed earlier.

[...]

To be clearer, "somebody told Jim how they had become rich selling hay" is the indefinite form, "Paula told Jim how they had become rich selling hay" is the definite form, the one for which I wish there was a better pronoun. I am actually surprised people don't seem to notice the difference in meaning.

I don't know quite what kind of example you're looking for, but "[Name] told me they [verbed] an [object] the other day" is a sentence structure I ehar fairly frequently in a circle of friends that includes at least one nonbinary person who prefers 'they' to gendered pronouns. It's perfectly usable. It may not have been used as a singular definite pronoun much in the past, but languages are not static, and 'they' is much more intuitive than inventing a new pronoun, or trying to use this/that/some other term which normally implies object rather than person.

On topic: Brad is excellent.

[Lethologica]

The ambiguity of "they" as a definite personal pronoun will come up frequently enough to be worth thinking about, but English doesn't have a ready solution for it yet, or that usage of "they" wouldn't have become conventional in the first place.

[Nettlekid]

To chime in to support the singular third-person "they," remember that "you" is also a plural. "Thou" is the singular, and we would use "you" to address a group of people and "thou" to address a singular. I don't really know the history of the word or why we now only use "you" (I think it has to do with the thorn, Þ, with a "th" sound, being written to look similar to a "y" and so "thou/Þou" became "you") but for people who argue that "they" can only mean plural and cannot mean singular, history isn't on your side.

[Vinyadan]

That's actually just a courtesy form that ended up becoming ubiquitous. You can find something similar in other languages (e.g. Portuguese, with various regions of Brazil not using tu anymore, or Italian once using voi interchangeably with tu, as French, whence the change in English may have started). The thorn part you noticed is something I also wondered about, but I don't think it possible that mere misreading of a word which is used everyday in a spoken context could have changed it. The progressive disappearance of verbal endings may have also helped (if for example it was already said "you go" and "thou goest/goeth", and people began saying "thou go" and there was concurrence between you and thou, people might have just resolved to use "you go", which was an already formed couple. Even today, people who use singular, determinate they say "As for Anna, they go", not "As for Anna, they goes", even though the meaning is singular.

I think the you thou case is somewhat different from they in that it is used to refer directly to a person you are talking to, which means that it is much easier to avoid confusion. If you see that the person isn't sure of whether you are referring to him or to the whole group, you can say, "Paula, you" or "you, Paula" and add your verb.

Anyway, now that I have thought about it long enough to pinpoint it, why I don't feel well about they used as a singular is that historical singular they is used to express that you don't know who you are talking about or not to identify whom you are talking about, while the newer meaning is not expressing the position of an identified person on the M-F axis. This indeterminate function is expressed by use of the plural verb (third person, unlike second person, doesn't have an addressee).

The reason why I am irked when it is used for me is that I perceive it as a "someone, I don't know whom", which, to me, is vaguely insulting (this kind of allusiveness is actually used in a somewhat snarky way to show that someone, not worth identifying, was wrong/silly/X). I guess that, for other people, it is an easier pronoun to use in lack of better alternatives and with the advantage of already being in use in a somewhat comparable function.

Reading about singular you, some dialects developed forms to create a new plural to distinguish singular and plural: yinz, yous, y'all, or forms like you guys. Maybe one day we'll have theys.

Anyway, the University of Chicago has become a safe place against intellectual safe places. I guess it's how things are supposed to be, a university isn't meant to be a support group. https://twitter.com/chicagomaroon/st...61465183862785

[Vinyadan]

There's a huge part of me which would like to go to live in America (better work market, flatter society, meritocracy), then there's stuff like this that scares the hell out of me. Paying for heart surgery?

[Maryring]

There's a huge part of me which would like to go to live in America (better work market, flatter society, meritocracy), then there's stuff like this that scares the hell out of me. Paying for heart surgery?

I have no idea where you live for the first two to be true. It certainly ain't true compared to many other western countries. In part to, yes, having to pay for heart surgery, or really most medical treatments. I suppose not even Feral can do anything about those costs.

So I suppose these past two pages are about how Al doesn't fit in with Brad's group and should look elsewhere... honestly I'm unsure what her plan for Brad's group was.

[Traab]

I have no idea where you live for the first two to be true. It certainly ain't true compared to many other western countries. In part to, yes, having to pay for heart surgery, or really most medical treatments. I suppose not even Feral can do anything about those costs.

So I suppose these past two pages are about how Al doesn't fit in with Brad's group and should look elsewhere... honestly I'm unsure what her plan for Brad's group was.

I think she wanted to kind of join in and help there but realized that there was no way in hell she could directly help out there, as they cant even get along with fellow dynomorphs and would likely dismiss anything she had to say loudly and completely as "she doesnt know what its like to blah blah blah" Or maybe she is just satisfied that they have everything under control as it can be and her help isnt needed. I dunno.

[Vinyadan]

I have no idea where you live for the first two to be true. It certainly ain't true compared to many other western countries. In part to, yes, having to pay for heart surgery, or really most medical treatments. I suppose not even Feral can do anything about those costs.

So I suppose these past two pages are about how Al doesn't fit in with Brad's group and should look elsewhere... honestly I'm unsure what her plan for Brad's group was.

Well, 5% unemployment rate and 28.000 $ as median wage sounds pretty good to me. Even with the pessimistic/realistic 9% unemployment estimate, it's still better than here, especially if you add that we don't even have minimum wage (but we do have some 33-40% youth unemployment against 10% in the US). About flat society, that could be an impression due to seeing photos of important people buying food in very normal places and the lack of nobility or notary dynasties.

How does it work with organs in the US anyway? We have a nationwide waiting list and donated organs, during the short time they remain outside a body, pretty much belong to the State, which operates most health facilities. Are organ donations administered by private groups or do they depend on choices made by the State or Federation?

I think Al didn't actually know what she wanted to do. I mean, she wanted to use the group to solve other people's problem, but these are people who need their own problems solved or made bearable. I guess the fact is that she still sees herself as a superhero, and assumed the same for others.

I am starting to think that the artist should put more effort into facial expression for secondary characters. It was very evident with Max, and Clevin in the last panel also doesn't look very natural, compared to Ali.

Why does she feel like a jerk?

[Lethologica]

Why does she feel like a jerk?

Because she assumed Clevin was pestering her about something that wasn't worth her time and tried to cut him off.

[sum1won]

On a realism note, re feral, I was curious and punched the numbers:

The highest transplant rates are:

1.) Kidney
2.) Liver
3.) Heart
4.) Lung

Kidney was around 16000/year. Divided by 2 (2 kidneys), and set daily, and that's 22 operations/day for kidneys.

Livers are 6000/year, so around 16 operations/day.

Heart is around 2200/year, so around 6 operations/day.

As for blood, one unit contains about two liters. The entire world uses about 40 million liters of blood annually. Divide by 20 (% of population that is the us) and that is 2 million for the us, or about 5000 liters per day. Feral can contribute "liters upon liters per day", so that's the one area she won't make much of a dent.

Feral can donate her heart "8-10 times per day", and everything else far more often, with kidneys and liver "30 times per day".

Basically, feral not only would put a dent in US organ demands, she'd obliterate it entirely. Blood, perhaps not.

Of course, the issue isn't really paying for the heart. It's paying for the operation.

[Alcibiades]

This guy better end up with the girl, he's damn cool.

[The Patterner]

He is wearing sunglasses inside, I knew I disliked him for a reason!

[Traab]

He is wearing sunglasses inside, I knew I disliked him for a reason!

Yeah but they are elton john style sunglasses, there is an automatic exemption for those. Heh, and allison seems to be blushing a bit there. Is she starting to appreciate this fella a bit more?

[Vinyadan]

Yeah but they are elton john style sunglasses, there is an automatic exemption for those. Heh, and allison seems to be blushing a bit there. Is she starting to appreciate this fella a bit more?

[Lethologica]

I wouldn't have minded skipping straight here. Clevin doesn't need Max to make him look good.

[Morquard]

I agree, he doesn't. But this might have been a lesson for Alison, you know. First impressions and all that.

[Maryring]

Clevin is great. I love guys who know how to not take themselves too seriously.

[Deliverance]

One one-liner on today's strip seems appropriate: "Thinking of you".

[JeenLeen]

On Clevin: I really like how this showed him as not... well, not awkward or clingy. He's being a cool guy, and not just caring about getting a date with her. In addition to making him a more appealing prospect in Allison's eyes (I'm guessing that look in her eyes might mean she's seeing her as a potential boyfriend), it makes him a more likable character.

Question from today's (9/9/16) comic (being vague to obey spoiler rules): who does that last name, in the last panel, belong to?

[Morquard]

Templar Industries? That's Patrick's company I believe. Aka Menace.

Or did you mean "Ms. Alison Green"? That's the blonde girl opening the envelope.

[Deliverance]

Question from today's (9/9/16) comic (being vague to obey spoiler rules): who does that last name, in the last panel, belong to?

Duval is the surname of the CEO of Templar Industries, i.e. the public front figure of whom Patrick is merely a humble personal assistant.

[Lethologica]

#AtLeastItsNotMax

[Vinyadan]

#AtLeastItsNotMax

That would have actually been interesting (not that this isn't interesting). I am still wondering what the follow up to the date will be, to be good it should tie in with superheroing or the things Ali is doing. I hope there will be a follow up, at least.

[Traab]

That would have actually been interesting (not that this isn't interesting). I am still wondering what the follow up to the date will be, to be good it should tie in with superheroing or the things Ali is doing. I hope there will be a follow up, at least.

As I am terrible with names, that was the first thing that came to mind about who gave it. I was thinking, "Hmm, is this some grand apology gesture? Did he send the letter before that oh so wonderful date? This could cause all sorts of issues." Of course, it still can cause issues, just different ones.

[Vinyadan]

I just noticed that, in panel II, she looks like Tintin.

[Deliverance]

I just noticed that, in panel II, she looks like Tintin.

Too much hair.