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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post

    Which isn't the problem here in this comic. The problem here is... the scene is awful and terribly written. Max is grasping the idiot ball, artificially creating a conflict with Al for reasons. Which ends up really detracting from whatever lesson you're supposed to learn here.

    It might not be the problem IN the comic but it sure as hell looks like it's the problem WITH the comic right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
    So what do you think? What is best use for Signatures?
    To curate my brilliance and wit, of course. Any other use is a waste.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Or keyboard warrior. The term is generally used to denote people who are often... enthusiastic about their causes to a degree that can sometimes feel like parody. Of course the fact that I image a lot of those accounts are actually parody accounts makes things hard to work out.
    Oh yeah, Poe's Law is in full effect here. I've occasionally stumbled into a subreddit/tumblr that I honestly could not tell if serious or an elaborate joke along the lines of /r/swoleacceptance.
    Last edited by SlyGuyMcFly; 2016-08-04 at 03:02 AM.
    Truth resists simplicity.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Spoiler: new update
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    Okay, no, I do not need to hear Feral's choice cast in a Randian lens, thank you for nothing Max, goodbye, **** you very much, and **** the author for saddling me with that thought just to push Alison's buttons.

  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Seriously, why are you still here?! This guy is clearly an arse and is going to take a big steaming turd all over your friend feral, who even now is screaming in unendurable agony as she tries to save as many lives as possible. Just. LEAVE.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    So if the author is trying to turn this into a discussion I guess he's going to argue that it's impossible to be truely selfless because even when you sacrifice hugely for a cause you're doing it because the satisfaction you get from that makes it worth it to you... Which I actually agree with. Of course if you're the kind of person who gets a ton of satisfaction from helping people that reflects very positively your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
    So what do you think? What is best use for Signatures?
    To curate my brilliance and wit, of course. Any other use is a waste.

  6. - Top - End - #276
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    That's a pretty insubstantial definitional argument that gets people's hackles up while not actually revealing anything about ethics. Like, if someone says "Altruism is actually selfishness because your value system includes concern for others and you're actually just adhering to your value system but it's still laudable to be selfish in a way that includes concern for others," they can just skip a step and say altruism, i.e. selfless concern for others, is laudable. The territory hasn't changed, they're just mapping it in a way that reflects their desire to see selfishness as virtuous, by characterizing the act of having a value system as selfish, no matter the characteristics of that value system.
    Last edited by Lethologica; 2016-08-05 at 12:13 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    So I'm thinking instead the guy's going to say something along the lines of "Feral could be doing something better, like selling the organs and then donating the money to charities" or "Giving organs to everyone is a waste, and she should instead give them to rich people because they contribute more to society" because that's the way Max's character seems to be going. I hope I'm wrong, because that would be cliché.
    And then Al will keep on dating him anyway because they're just on a date and this arc seems to be "Allison learns that people have serious reasons for believing differently from her, and she learns how to work with those people in spite of those differences."

    I can usually tell what direction people's personalities are developing, but I was hoping Max was a thoughtful good caring person so much that I really hope he's just immature and is leading this up to some sort of inappropriate joke. I also hope Allison finally gets what Mr. Guwara was getting at.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Im thinking it will be more about how long term she would be better giving herself up for experimentation. See if they can replicate her regeneration abilities through science so they can home grow their own organs instead of harvesting her. Of course, I doubt they havent already claimed significant samples of her to test for that already, so maybe not. Itll probably be some sort of exposition on how futile it is for one person, even a fast regenerator like feral to do this. Its like trying to empty a lake with a cup. A lake thats fed by a river. But yeah, lets see if he hits one of HER triggers this time. I dont think she will be pleased with any belittling of what feral is doing. Honestly, I cant believe she is still here in the first place so my ability to predict events is shot. Right now im just going to take bets on how much longer this date can go on before one or the other calls it off.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Yes, I was utterly surprised she's still sitting there and actually continues the date...

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Yes, I was utterly surprised she's still sitting there and actually continues the date...
    Well, the difference between us readers and Alison is that she was attracted to him in the first place and has previously spent a romantic date with him that she greatly enjoyed despite it revealing some differences of opinion.

    Also, shortly prior to that she had a tough lesson in philosophy where one of the things she learned was that perhaps, just perhaps, her own assumptions about what was right were neither as universally shared nor as self-evidently good for others. She reacted poorly to this discovery, but it very well might be influencing her willingness to hear contrary arguments rather than leaving or lecturing, as is her wont.

    Also, she bloody well is used to telling others what to do whenever she feels in the right; Even if she leaves, she wouldn't be Alison if she didn't try to get in a last self-righteous word.

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    If I were Max, I'd whisper "Martha" now.

    Or I'd turn into Norman Osborn, without the abusive, alcoholic father, and I'd fight for truth, justice and the American (Estadounitensian) Way.

    Or, you know, get to da choppa. It's just lying over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Good riddance. Get out of there already.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Gee, what a surprise. He tried very clumsily to crap all over feral and her efforts to help people. He went from being able to fairly eloquently debate philosophy, to this ham fisted yahoo news article comment level of stumbling just in time to make sure his point couldnt be made in a way that sounded reasonable. Thus making it easy to disregard and reject.

    The argument that nothing is truly selfless because you get the pleasure of helping people is an old one and fairly accurate, so long as you dont mind splitting hairs and semantics, but sprinkling your argument with likes, I means, and ya knows, just makes you sound like a guy who doesnt even fully understand his own point and is struggling to find a way to say it.

    Honestly, had I been her and through some form of brain damage still been here instead of long gone, I probably would have left like this.

    "I really dont feel like sitting here and listening to a man clumsily try to insult my friend, who even now is constantly screaming in agony through vocal cords that continue to shred themselves and heal while her internal organs are removed over and over and over again in a never ending cycle of mind shattering torment and torture. This date is over. Do not attempt to contact me."
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Next page:

    Alison: So, Clevin, about that movie.
    Clevin: You are going to love it. It is an indie version of The Fountainhead that stays true to the book without watering it down like the Hollywood '49 version with Gary Cooper did. I've already seen it 19 times.
    Alison: ...Riiiight.

    Next page:

    Alison: I've got a terrible taste in men.
    Lisa: Nothing that technology can't solve. As I told you when we met, we don't celebrate batteries, and I think that is wrong. How else would you power a vibrator?
    Alison: ...Riiight.

    Next page:

    Alison: Hey, Patrick, I know you must be wondering why I'm here, but about those Looney Tunes...
    Last edited by Deliverance; 2016-08-09 at 12:34 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    I think Clevin should take her to see The Conqueror. It stars a 1.93 m American (John Wayne) as a Mongol, was filmed at a radioactive location with complete disregard for the health of the workers because of an evil government agency, portrays women in a sexist fashion, was produced by Howard Hughes, who had his agents follow women he was interested in, and ts catchphrase is: "I am Temujin... Barbarian! I fight! I love! I conquer! ...like a Barbarian!"

    But still, I don't get Max any more. How can you be that stupid? And how can you write someone turning him into an idiot that fast?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverance View Post
    Alison: I've got a terrible taste in men.
    Lisa: Nothing that technology can't solve. As I told you when we met, we don't celebrate batteries, and I think that is wrong. How else would you power a vibrator?
    Alison: ...Riiight.
    Pff, like that wasn't the best ship all along.

    So, as it turns out, there's no twist, and our time with Max was in fact a huge waste of time.

    I'm not mad, SFP, I'm just disappointed.

    (Edit: Most disappointing is Max's just complete shrug in reasoning when it comes to crapping on Feral. You could legitimately make the point that she's standing in the way of a more permanent technological solution - why spend so much money figuring out how to clone organs if you've got a living factory of them? Or that without the organ donation she'd be a largely-unknown guttersnipe, whereas now she has the adoration of millions as probably the closest thing the SFP-world has to Jesus. They wouldn't be good arguments, but they'd be better than "eh, she's just probably got some angle because everybody does, you know?")
    Last edited by Guancyto; 2016-08-09 at 01:24 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The argument that nothing is truly selfless because you get the pleasure of helping people is an old one and fairly accurate, so long as you dont mind splitting hairs and semantics, but sprinkling your argument with likes, I means, and ya knows, just makes you sound like a guy who doesnt even fully understand his own point and is struggling to find a way to say it.
    It's an old argument and a bloody stupid one too, since it rests on the notion that anything other than 100% pure, unadulterated selflessness somehow doesn't count.
    Truth resists simplicity.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly View Post
    It's an old argument and a bloody stupid one too, since it rests on the notion that anything other than 100% pure, unadulterated selflessness somehow doesn't count.
    As I said, its semantics and splitting hairs, but technically correct. Unless you can somehow prove that you dont do good things because it feels good to do good things, then you cant claim its totally selfless. Its basically the last refuge of the greedy and selfish to try and pretend that everyone is like them therefore they have nothing to feel bad about. Basically this guy.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As I said, its semantics and splitting hairs, but technically correct. Unless you can somehow prove that you dont do good things because it feels good to do good things, then you cant claim its totally selfless. Its basically the last refuge of the greedy and selfish to try and pretend that everyone is like them therefore they have nothing to feel bad about. Basically this guy.
    It is precisely that pretense that this argument fails to validate, because changing the words used for things does not change the things themselves. Max's parents holding undocumented workers over a barrel for uncompensated overtime will never be like Feral enduring unending torture to donate her body to the needy in perpetuity, no matter whether one is called selflessness or not. We have merely relegated the (immense) difference to one's choice of value system by integrating personal well-being into that system.

    Truly, in pursuit of branding self-interest an objective good, the objectivists have made themselves the greatest moral relativists of all. What a joke.

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    So, will there be more to Max, or was he just another "humans are ***** and don't all share your values" lesson for Alison?

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    So, will there be more to Max, or was he just another "humans are ***** and don't all share your values" lesson for Alison?
    Originally I was hoping for another "Not everything is black and white" teachable moment for allison, but in this case, yeah, black. This isnt a shade of grey, dude is just a total richard cranium. Now im picturing some creepy stalker issue popping up. Where allison feels a bit freaked out, though not in danger as such, so isnt sure how to handle it. I mean, does superman take out restraining orders against his stalkers?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    I see this as a wonderful techie villain creation time. Maxomax, Exploiter of Gardeners!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Driven mad by Al rejecting him, he fell into a vat of toxic lawn trimmings and became...The Topiarist. His animated hedge statues will terrorize the city in revenge until he can be stopped.

  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Driven mad by Al rejecting him, he fell into a vat of toxic lawn trimmings and became...The Topiarist. His animated hedge statues will terrorize the city in revenge until he can be stopped.
    He can be stopped by paying the statues random acts of kindness; unable to understand this altruism, they suffer a critical existence error.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Driven mad by Al rejecting him, he fell into a vat of toxic lawn trimmings and became...The Topiarist. His animated hedge statues will terrorize the city in revenge until he can be stopped.
    NO!!!! He shall instead become..... THIS!
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    I guess that's the best way to deal with this guy. Throwing his own philosophy back in his face.
    The sad thing is that he doesn't even realize why Alison left. Or that she was already likely to leave before he insulted Feral and her sacrifice.
    (Seriously, I admire her selfcontrol. Had I been in her shoes there would have been literal throwing involved. I wouldn't have been the one who flies away.)
    I mean if Feral isn't selfless, what is? Doing something you consider wrong, that you feel bad about, for free? Because I see no other way you get nothing out of a action.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    That's kinda the point of that line of argument.
    Even the most selfless people aren't really selfless, they're after something. So, if even they aren't selfless, then nobody is. So selflessness doesn't exist. If selflessness doesn't exist, then neither can selfishness, since it's just the other side of the coin. Ergo, I'm totally fine being selfish, since everyone is the same.

    No, I'm not agreeing with that.

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    That's kinda the point of that line of argument.
    Even the most selfless people aren't really selfless, they're after something. So, if even they aren't selfless, then nobody is. So selflessness doesn't exist. If selflessness doesn't exist, then neither can selfishness, since it's just the other side of the coin. Ergo, I'm totally fine being selfish, since everyone is the same.

    No, I'm not agreeing with that.
    Just having a motivation is enough to theoretically not be selfless by doing good things, because you are doing them for a reason. I guess the only way to be truly selfless is to act randomly for absolutely no reason at all. Pure chaos is the only selflessness. Im not talking heath ledger joker chaos, he had a plan, he had motivation, he had a REASON to do what he did, hence not selfless. Freaking twisted isnt it?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    That's kinda the point of that line of argument.
    Even the most selfless people aren't really selfless, they're after something. So, if even they aren't selfless, then nobody is. So selflessness doesn't exist. If selflessness doesn't exist, then neither can selfishness, since it's just the other side of the coin. Ergo, I'm totally fine being selfish, since everyone is the same.

    No, I'm not agreeing with that.
    No, that still doesn't make any sense.

    No that's not entirely right. It makes sense. In a twisted "the Joker has a point"-kind of way.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  30. - Top - End - #300
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    Default Re: Strong Female Protagonist II

    No, it just doesn't make sense. Erasing the word 'selflessness' is a false comfort to the selfish--they think destroying the word destroys the meaning behind it, but they are wrong. All the differences that are supposedly eliminated by this deconstruction are readily reconstructed with different terminology under the system being argued for.

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