Strong Female Protagonist II

[Kantaki]

So, current over/under odds on this new crush turning out to be the villain of this arc?

I hope not. Maybe he will get dragged into it, but for Al's sanity I hope he is a nice, normal guy. I mean almost every friend she has is either a villain (Patrick and Mary) or is tearing themself apart on their way to save the world (Feral, Pintsize (kinda) and Paladin). The only one with a normal life (as far as we know) is Sonar.
I'm not counting her former roommate there because she doesn't count.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Yay, we get to see Capecakes. Now I'm hungry. Does anyone else want to know how the food there is?

[Morquard]

I have no idea who those people in the cafe are... I have a feeling I'm supposed to know, but I don't.

One looks like Paladin, but in the second panel it doesn't look like she has an artificial leg, so I'm not certain. The others, no clue

[The Glyphstone]

According to the SFP comments section, we've met Rich before:

http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-2/page-11-2/

Apparently he's a really good hacker. Possibly an Innate of some kind.

[Kantaki]

New comics.

Lisa and Alison talk about the finances for Al's project. It seems for the moment the money from Megagirl-days will suffice. And Al gets some Money for a Guardians movie, but has to talk with Pintsize to get it.
Now that will be interesting. But they took Alison off the list? Isn't Pintsize the only one left there? I mean Al retired, Mary is doing her own thingy and I'm pretty sure Sonar left as well. Am I missing someone? Well, maybe some janitors or something like that from the government, who knows.
I just hope that is Pintsize Alison is hearing and not some (other) kind of trouble.
For some reason the Guardians-building looks like two toilets to me on Issue 6, page 15. Those landing platforms could have been placed better. I mean what are people supposed to think about "heroes" that have their base in a building that looks like toilets?

[Traab]

I like this comic, but I just cant read it update by update. It moves so slow that I need to give it a few weeks each time then do an archive "binge" of the half dozen or so comics so I feel like at least it moved forward a bit.

[Kantaki]

New comic

It's even worse than I expected.
Hector and Alison apologize to eachother and talk things out in a reasonable way. They. talk. things. out. in. a. reasonable. way.
What is wrong in the world that capes talk things out instead of wrecking a city or three while fighting over their disagreement.
The end is nigh!

No seriously, it's good to see that they go along again. They might need it.

[Connington]

Man, Allison has just the worst luck with professors.

[Traab]

Man, Allison has just the worst luck with professors.

How so? This guy seems fairly cool and interested in starting up dialogues to make his point. Is he someone from an earlier comic or something?

[Kantaki]

Man, Allison has just the worst luck with professors.

I don't think so, just because the last Prof hated her because she killed his husband and the new guy pushes all of the "super-villain" buttons...
Nevermind, Al really has bad luck with her professors.

And as far as I can tell she hasn't called Shirtguy yet. A shame. I really want to see how wrong that will go.

[Connington]

How so? This guy seems fairly cool and interested in starting up dialogues to make his point. Is he someone from an earlier comic or something?

The hip flask he's ostentatiously pulling from while lecturing is a bad sign. I'm also personally not fond of the "lay obvious trap and insult students that don't volunteer for it" teaching method.

He's definitely going to be a fun character, but I doubt he and Allison will get along.

[Kantaki]

The hip flask he's ostentatiously pulling from while lecturing is a bad sign. I'm also personally not fond of the "lay obvious trap and insult students that don't volunteer for it" teaching method.

He's definitely going to be a fun character, but I doubt he and Allison will get along.

That's certainly part of it, but I think the Prof just left a bad impression in general.

His entry was already enough to give me a negative opinion about him. Dragon/Serpent cane and all that.
The quip about ethics (and the drinking) didn't make it better.
The way he "encourages" his students might not be very nice (and pretty much fits the first Impression), but at least for Alison it seems to work.

But yeah, that guy will be very interesting/fun. For the readers at least.

[The Glyphstone]

This is clearly a character we are supposed to hate.

[Dragonus45]

We are? I have to admit other than pinging every villain button that can be pushed he doesn't seem all that bad for a teacher.

[Nettlekid]

I agree, he seems very different than other characters and probably kind of stubborn and proud with his "above it all" type of thinking, but he also seems wry and clever. I think he's initially going to seem like someone who's only out to shoot down Alison's ideals and call them naive, but in the end he'll push her to reevaluate some things she's been taking for granted.

I say that because pretty much every character in this comic has also done that.

[Lethologica]

What doesn't Alison think is fair? I'm feeling railroaded here.

[Traab]

What doesn't Alison think is fair? I'm feeling railroaded here.

Sharing your beliefs like that is kind of putting you on the spot. I dont mean beliefs in god or whatever, but the core beliefs you live by is pretty personal. Its possible he was actually provoking that exact response, or one close enough to it to segue into. What is fair? What is unfair? This is an easy target for a philosophical debate.

[Nettlekid]

Sharing your beliefs like that is kind of putting you on the spot. I dont mean beliefs in god or whatever, but the core beliefs you live by is pretty personal. Its possible he was actually provoking that exact response, or one close enough to it to segue into. What is fair? What is unfair? This is an easy target for a philosophical debate.

It is also a philosophy class. Part of the point is to bring to light and address some fundamental beliefs and figure out if they're being biased or based on flawed logic. For example, volunteering to say that you believe all people should be treated equally and then being forced to deal with equal treatment of people despite their own moral actions or the inequality with which you do treat people despite your proposed belief is kind of par for the course. For Allison to say that it isn't fair that the professor should make quips and jabs about the subject matter and then ask someone to volunteer about it really does set the stage well for the points he wants to make. After all, he is asking for a volunteer, it's not like he singled anyone out (especially someone who has some sort of obvious expression of religion, which would be an easy target for picking at beliefs) and for Allison to say that it isn't fair does make a strong statement about her world values. That things should be fair, or that fairness can even exist, is pretty telling for a girl who has invincible superpowers determined by random lottery.

[Frozen_Feet]

Also, there's something to be said for approaching these sorts of teachers with humour: he's quipping, so quip back. It would be easy for a student to volunteer and throw out a joke axiom or an axiom they've seen used as a talking point in other discussions.

[Kantaki]

New Comic

Okay, now I'm pretty sure the Prof is messing with Al and the other students.
I even agree with him. On the A is A thing at least. Not sure about the tyrant thing.
Sure, Alison's axiom is something a tyrant would say, but I'm pretty sure the meaning would be different.
On the other hand the original meaning was less negative. Professor Gurwara might simply use it as another word for ruler.
Just to provoke Al a bit, to challenge her world view.

[The Glyphstone]

New Comic

Okay, now I'm pretty sure the Prof is messing with Al and the other students.
I even agree with him. On the A is A thing at least. Not sure about the tyrant thing.
Sure, Alison's axiom is something a tyrant would say, but I'm pretty sure the meaning would be different.
On the other hand the original meaning was less negative. Professor Gurwara might simply use it as another word for ruler.
Just to provoke Al a bit, to challenge her world view.

I'll bet that is exactly what he is doing, actually, since the original meaning of Tyrant was explicitly a champion of the underclass.

[Traab]

I'll bet that is exactly what he is doing, actually, since the original meaning of Tyrant was explicitly a champion of the underclass.

See, this is the type of teacher that would quickly drive me into a ticked off ragequit. He is one of those guys that can take everything you say and turn it into something wrong/bad. I realize thats probably a large point of this class, that literally nothing is "the right answer" or however you want to phrase it, but this sort of teaching method just irks the heck out of me.

It would be one thing if he say, wrote out a list of common schools of thought then showed how each one has its flaws, but instead is he intentionally personally attacking people over their beliefs, turning it from an exercise in rational thought into a personal battle where a student who cant possibly argue on par with someone who has likely made doing exactly this their lifes work finds themselves repeatedly wrong footed no matter what they say or do.

She had it right at the start. The man is a bully. It doesnt matter that this style of teaching does or does not work, he is teaching through bullying. Attacking everything she says, twisting it to make her wrong, and continually putting her on the spot. If this was a boxing match instead of verbal sparring, she would be a bantamweight desperately covering up in the corner while a heavy weight is unloading right hooks on her at a ferocious rate. And any time she tries to take a swing, he brushes it aside and lands another hammer blow to the torso. She stands no chance in this sort of conflict and he knows that. And he clearly is taking glee in every attempt to fight back she makes.

[Kantaki]

See, this is the type of teacher that would quickly drive me into a ticked off ragequit. He is one of those guys that can take everything you say and turn it into something wrong/bad. I realize thats probably a large point of this class, that literally nothing is "the right answer" or however you want to phrase it, but this sort of teaching method just irks the heck out of me.

It would be one thing if he say, wrote out a list of common schools of thought then showed how each one has its flaws, but instead is he intentionally personally attacking people over their beliefs, turning it from an exercise in rational thought into a personal battle where a student who cant possibly argue on par with someone who has likely made doing exactly this their lifes work finds themselves repeatedly wrong footed no matter what they say or do.

She had it right at the start. The man is a bully. It doesnt matter that this style of teaching does or does not work, he is teaching through bullying. Attacking everything she says, twisting it to make her wrong, and continually putting her on the spot. If this was a boxing match instead of verbal sparring, she would be a bantamweight desperately covering up in the corner while a heavy weight is unloading right hooks on her at a ferocious rate. And any time she tries to take a swing, he brushes it aside and lands another hammer blow to the torso. She stands no chance in this sort of conflict and he knows that. And he clearly is taking glee in every attempt to fight back she makes.

I think that isn't entirely fair towards the Prof. He is trying to challenge a group of philosophy students to think. Something they should do, considering what they study.
Right now Al is the only one who gives him something to work with. She stated her axiom and he challenges* it.
Sure, basically calling her a tyrant isn't very nice, but it shows the biggest flaw of this axiom. Alison could counter that in its original meaning a tyrant isn't necessarily something bad.

I don't think Professor Gurwara is calling Al wrong, he just wants her (and the other students) to think about the implications of their axioms.
That grin in the last panel? To me it says "That is a good one. With that we can work.". The tyrant line is supposed to start a discussion, not to shut Alison up.

That doesn't mean I like him, or that he isn't a jerk, but I think at least some of the way he acts is supposed to challenge his students to speak up, to think for themself. He is teaching philosophy after all.

[Deliverance]

See, this is the type of teacher that would quickly drive me into a ticked off ragequit. He is one of those guys that can take everything you say and turn it into something wrong/bad. I realize thats probably a large point of this class, that literally nothing is "the right answer" or however you want to phrase it, but this sort of teaching method just irks the heck out of me.

It would be one thing if he say, wrote out a list of common schools of thought then showed how each one has its flaws, but instead is he intentionally personally attacking people over their beliefs, turning it from an exercise in rational thought into a personal battle where a student who cant possibly argue on par with someone who has likely made doing exactly this their lifes work finds themselves repeatedly wrong footed no matter what they say or do.

She had it right at the start. The man is a bully. It doesnt matter that this style of teaching does or does not work, he is teaching through bullying. Attacking everything she says, twisting it to make her wrong, and continually putting her on the spot. If this was a boxing match instead of verbal sparring, she would be a bantamweight desperately covering up in the corner while a heavy weight is unloading right hooks on her at a ferocious rate. And any time she tries to take a swing, he brushes it aside and lands another hammer blow to the torso. She stands no chance in this sort of conflict and he knows that. And he clearly is taking glee in every attempt to fight back she makes.

The professor has not personally attacked anybody.

He engaged in lighthearted joking about the subject matter as a way of putting students at ease and more likely to engage with a new teacher they didn't know, then asked his students whether any of them would volunteer a personal axiom. Faced with a wall of blank faces of unengaged students, he engaged in a bit of provocation to get a response. This is not an unusual social situation in higher education.

Alison, clearly uncertain of what was meant by a personal axiom and completely misunderstanding the social situation, interpreted this conflict in the frame of reference she knows best: Fight or flight. With the intention of defending her class mates from the serious threat of being asked to volunteer a personal axiom for discussion in a class on the philosophical study of values, she immediately went on the offense, and denounced him for bullying when no bullying had taken place. (She also called him mister rather than professor - a conscious attempt to put him down in front of the other students or a case of not knowing his title? She called Lisa and other teachers professors, so I'd assume that was the norm.)

In doing this she assumed she was speaking for the class (her use of "we"), something the professor of course took note of. The professor pointed out to her that she still had not provided any sort of axiom to live by (her "I don't like bullies" is an opinion and doesn't explain action to be taken) referring to an earlier episode where her actions towards somebody she considered a bully had led to the dismissal of a professor (whether intentional or not, that was the result of her actions), and under this barrage of attempting to make her think about what she was saying and answer the question she originally volunteered to answer, and after she childishly tried to seek refuge in tautology, Alison finally, and long overdue, began thinking about what she considered her axiom. (Today's panel 4).

That's a great step for Alison to take. We've often seen her question her actions retroactively, but less often seen her question her assumptions. To her credit she is working on the latter, which is presumably why she engaged in a course on philosophy in the first place.

It may also be great for the professor - this is what good teachers live for. Verdict is still out on whether he's a good teacher; It remains remotely possible that he's just a jerk who learned the socratic method and misunderstood it, but with every page he reminds me more and more of some of the good philosophy professors I've known. People who understand that the primary purpose of their teaching is to make people think, to question everything up to and including their own motivations, not to regurgitate what others have thought in the past.

She then proceeds to lay out what she thinks, about everybody acting as one being better together while the other students look on more or less incredulously.

The professor is clearly amused - indeed, it would be hard not to be because apart from the way she views it as a positive, it is an important part of many of the nastier ideologies known to man and explicitly so. It is also how just about any tyrant justifies himself - doing things for the greater good, protecting each other, moving to common purpose, with the tyrant's purpose being that common, working for a better world, with everybody agreeing that the tyrant's view of a better world is the right one - and many of them do think so. Contrast how Alison just took it on herself to act for the class when faced with what she considered bullying, considering her view of the situation to be the shared view of the class (scared, threatened, bullied).

How he deals with it in the coming pages will tell us whether he is, indeed, a good teacher, a jerk, or both. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Because so far this has been a very tame discussion, philosophically speaking. Alison may have tried to derail the conversation several times when she got uncomfortable (be it intentionally or not), but the professor has guided the discussion back on topic each time. Nothing to even raise a blip on the harsh-to-students meter.

[Maryring]

After reading the discussion here and on the SFP page itself, I'm starting to understand why they killed Socrates.

[Kantaki]

After reading the discussion here and on the SFP page itself, I'm starting to understand why they killed Socrates.

And with "killed" you mean "made him drink poison"?
If there is one thing to learn from Socrates it's how you go with style. And dignity.

[Maryring]

Clearly, he should've been a proponent for free speak, rather than speak against it.

Seriously though. What's being seen here is the classic Socratic method mixed with some forceful pushing and prodding to get someone to volunteer. It's very telling then that half the comments talk about how they love his method of debating, and the other half denounces him as a selfish bully who is a horrible teacher and person.

[Deliverance]

Hah, a variation of a classic philosophical problem. Let's see how well the professor carries it off. Time for the students to squirm.

[Lost Demiurge]

Yeah...

This guy's good.

Coming off offensively because we're seeing things through Allison's eyes and he's challenging her with every word, but honestly? If a philosophy class DOESN'T shake you out of your comfort zone and challenge you, it isn't doing its job.

[Traab]

Let me guess, he is going to say that only half the class can pass along with perhaps throwing in a little "If you go over the number then everyone fails" line for extra drama? Honestly, its an interesting question, aside from the fact that its utter nonsense considering there is no way in hell a college would let its professor pass/fail a class like this. It removes a lot of the impact to me because of that. I also like how quickly he ducked allison questioning him on the tyranny comment. After all, if he has to stop his forward momentum long enough to defend his comment, he will be the one on the back foot.