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2015-11-01, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- Germany
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
A pommel joke? Really? 10/10, but everyone who knows even a little bit about questionaire design would call the bicycle cavalry on you.
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2015-11-01, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Oregon, USA
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10, though I agree with folks that you should make the questions more neutral, despite the narwhal answer being quite amusing.
I play primarily Pathfinder with varying amounts of 3.5 allowed depending on campaign. I also play Big Eyes, Small Mouth occasionally, and I am in a D&D 5E campaign. I cut my teeth on Iron Crown Enterprises' Middle Earth RPG, and have played some limited 2E, one Apocalypse World mini campaign and a session of Dogs in the Vinyard. Oh yeah, and a session or two of Capes. Though I am familiar with a number of other games.
As for video games, I have played a ton of JRPGs, much much much time logged on Elder Scrolls games, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Everquest for a while, Final Fantasy XI....I'll stop there, because I'm not sure how many you want me to list. If your goal is to see how many games have possibkly shaped my understanding of how medieval combat an weaponry worked, a lot of games (including some I've already listed) are too far removed from notions of realism to possibly influence the way I would think about the subject.Last edited by Susano-wo; 2015-11-01 at 05:11 PM.
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2015-11-01, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
8/10 here- also got thrown off by the horse-mounting question. Apparently answer a) is a very, very prevalent myth lingering from Victorian times (and it's doubly frustrating for me to have gotten wrong, since I know perfectly well that a fully-armoured man can be remarkably agile, having observed an acquaintance leap clean over the first row of seated spectators and land in a shoulder roll while wearing full plate >.O).
I also got question 6 wrong. Partly because I wasn't sure what the actual answer would be, since the question is a frustratingly broad one for multiple choice, and the actual answer could vary wildly depending on the type of both armour and sword used... heck, the illustration given was why I eventually picked answer a), as it clearly shows weak points at the shoulder/neck join. The other reason was because the 'correct' answer made no sense whatsoever with the way it is phrased. How are you supposed to stab anyone while you're holding the sword by the blade? Rather than 'Hold the sword by the blade and either stab in the gaps or use the hilt like a mace with the blade as the handle.', it should read 'Either stab in the gaps or use the pommel like a mace with the blade as the handle.'
As to Tabletop Gaming, D&D 3.5 and 4e, and Shadowrun. However, I have a longstanding interest in history, and will occasionally participate in Renfaires/Medieval Festivals, so the gaming is only a minor aspect of things and did surprisingly little to shape my understanding of this stuff.
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2015-11-01, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
Last edited by nedz; 2015-11-01 at 06:35 PM.
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2015-11-01, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
I think question numero dos needs some work.
Spoiler"True or False: While Japanese swords were very sharp and nimble European swords were heavy and dull so they could crush armour."
Also, why is this test geared towards what appears to be medieval Japan and Europe? I'm pretty sure China is, like, a thing. A pretty big thing in many ways. If the test is meant to focus on the areas that most RPGs themselves tend to focus on, I'd still say China has a shot at being quite popular.For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.
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2015-11-01, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
9/10, I play DnD 3.5+5e, Pathfinder, Heroes 5thE Revised and 6E.
Missed the last one. I knew plate is lighter than you think, but the kneeling sounded right.
Edit: Videogames as well. NWN 1+2 is probably the only one that'd actually apply knowledge wise though.Last edited by 5ColouredWalker; 2015-11-01 at 06:52 PM.
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2015-11-01, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
9/10 Terrible with weights so I got No. 1 wrong
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2015-11-01, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
I'd definitely argue that, for RPGs, Japan has traditionally been more common, but China is generally more interesting (and in my opinion better). If I remember correctly, the 1e Oriental Adventures was focused on Japan as was the third edition, and the early 'asian' RPGs were slanted towards Japan. Also, most people probably wouldn't recognise a jian or dao, let alone the less sword-like Chinese weapons (I can't remember the correct names for Chinese halberds or staffs myself), while you show someone a katana and they'll at least realise it's a 'samurai sword'. However, I'll agree that China definitely has a lot of traction in the RPG circles these days (although not as much as Dungeons and Dragons, man I hate that game's popularity), and most RPG players are nerdy enough to at least realise a jian is not an arming sword (it is a different shape, slightly, but I use the two as equivalents when trying to explain Chinese swords), so more Chinese questions wouldn't have been bad, I agree on that point.
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2015-11-01, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Location
- Earth
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
Thank you for the results this was my first online test, and though it wasn't made very well (sorry I made it late) it gave me some good info and will help me make a better one. Feel free to continue taking this test if you want but I'm going to start on a new one (full citations explanations and with better wording)
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2015-11-01, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Location
- Earth
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2015-11-01, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- Los Angeles
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
I mostly play 3.5e, Legend of the Five Rings, some other stuff I guess. Lots of videogames too.
I feel like the test could have stood to include more common misconceptions, such as when guns were invented and how they affected the era of knights and swords. If this is directed specifically at RPG players, I would add more questions about things that fantasy tropes train audiences to expect (which aren't actually reflective of the real thing). I'd also try to give less clues to the right answer from tone.
Also, when comparing to your control group, are you only relying on reported scores? Because I suspect that people with high scores will report more often.Last edited by LudicSavant; 2015-11-01 at 08:49 PM.
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2015-11-01, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
- Location
- Earth
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
true but I cannot affect whether or not people will lie about their scores or if they don't post due to low scores (or re-takes). And this was only my first quiz, I plan on making another with full citations, quotes, further misconceptions, etc. When I'm done with the new one I'll be sure to post it for more constructive criticism.
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2015-11-01, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
Doesn't your quiz engine record the scores ?
Last edited by Aetol; 2015-11-01 at 10:24 PM.
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2015-11-01, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
Eh, combat ready bidenhanders weighed in at 5-7.1 lbs. Show swords that were not meant to be used in a fight could weigh in at 15 lbs.
The picture isn't a bidenhander, it's a longsword at most, meaning it'll be around 2-4 lbs, unless it's a really crappily made model, those can weight as much as 10 lbs.
Anyway, I got 10/10. And play 3.P most often.
Actually, random note, a few years ago I went to a lecture on Medieval Law that explained the "end them rightly" thing.
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2015-11-01, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
And what is the explanation then ?
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2015-11-02, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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- Oregon
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
8/10, picked the best wrong answer on swordsmen qualities and archery each. I've played only 3.5e, with a tiny handful of Legends of the Wulin.
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2015-11-02, 02:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Cippa's River Meadow
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10 but then again, I'm a regular contributor to the Real World Weapons, Armour and Tactics thread, plus I've done Norman times re-enactment and I shoot with a bow regularly.
Game system wise, I've played the original Red Box D&D, Shadowrun 2nd ED and a bit of L5R. Video games, too many to count, but Bushido Blade on the PS was the first game that opened my eyes to how light weapons really were.
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2015-11-02, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10
Many of the questions were too obvious or vague (even if I didn't need the snark to answer correctly).
My gaming experience is mostly 3.5 and PF, with a fair amount of Ars Magica and L5R (3ER) thrown in. Have also played BECMI/RC and AD&D 2e some years, and dabbled in numerous other games like VtM, Kult, CoC/Laundry Files, Deadlands, All flesh must be eaten, HtR, and a few sessions of various otherse.
Video games: all the Infinity Engine games, Mass Effect series, AvP series, Dead Space series, KOTOR 1/2, Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series, TOR, FF VI and X, NWN 1/2 + expansions, Republic Commando, Serious Sam series, Doom series,
Several others but I think those are the most important ones.
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2015-11-02, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
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- California
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10. I mostly play Pathfinder. I should disclose that I watch Skallagrim, Schola Gladiatora, and Lindybeige, though. I also feel that the questions were a bit leading.
That said, I am an idiot, so I could be mistaken.
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2015-11-02, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2015-11-02, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
It would be interesting to see what misconceptions people have generally about the middle ages - do people really think they all thought the earth was flat (no, they knew it was a sphere), were the middle ages technologically primitive (they actually had a mini industrial revolution and two earlier examples of a renaissance), didn't people refuse to bathe (no -bathing was actually popular and there were public bathhouses where members of both sexes shared baths) and so on.
While roleplayers may possible pick up some more knowledge by playing about things like weapons I suspect most of what they think they know about the middle ages generally is probably wrong.
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2015-11-02, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
He should be able to get the response choice frequencies and see where the "good" distractors were and what the most common (or biggest splits) were.
9/10. Booched the horse, but that has more to do with my own inability to hop up reliably. (And was one with some good distractors.)
You've got some good (and common) misconceptions, but your flat distractors could use a little tightening. If you'd left he thing about machine guns off on the katana one, it would be more believable for non-fanboys.
I've played... a lot. Most flavors of D&D and related OSR games, Palladium systems, Rolemaster, WoD, L5R & 7th Sea, A smattering of Shadowrun many ages past, plus some universal systems. Mostly I'm a D&D guy.
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2015-11-02, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10, although I think there's more of a distinction between side-swords (spada da lato), espada ropera, "sword-rapiers" (admittedly an ahistorical term, and a category of side-sword rather than rapier, oddly enough) with compromise blades somewhere between the side-swords and rapiers, and true rapiers than the question suggests.
Saying they were "no thinner than other swords" is an odd and potentially tricky choice when the picture shows a rather slender-bladed weapon compared to, say, a schiavona, a weapon in contemporary use. Although perhaps you meant thin in cross-section rather than narrow, in which case sure--a spada da lato or an espada ropera is broader (though often not much--though a schiavona is considerably broader) from one edge to another, without being especially thicker from one flat to another. They sometimes were a bit thinner in cross-section--and sometimes thicker, with a sort of diamond cross-section with unsharpened edges, though not nearly as heavy and inflexible as a tuck (estoc).
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2015-11-02, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Southern Germany
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
Actually, stuff like that doesn't really help a lot because it just leads to even more misconceptions, just different ones. The first misconception you need to clean up with is that "the middle ages" is not a monolithic block of history. We're talking about a period of history spanning pretty much a thousand years (give or take a couple centuries depending on which definition you like most) and millions and millions of people living in hugely different geographical, economical, political and cultural environments. Literally any statement of the kind "in the middle ages, people did <x>" is pretty much meaningless. At some point, yeah, someone during that time probably did that if it was at all possible, because in the span of a thousand years, millions of people are bound to do pretty much anything.
Did a northern european naval navigator in the late middle ages believe the earth is flat? Most certainly not, he couldn't have performed his job otherwise. Did an uneducated eastern european farmer from the early middle ages believe the earth is flat? We either have no clue or we have to assume that he just didn't care because he could live his whole life without the question of the shape of the earth ever coming up.
Same goes for stuff like technological progress, personal hygiene and pretty much everything else. As soon as you ask someone a question of the type "did people in the middle ages do <x>?" and you get any other answer than "well, that depends..." assume the answer you just got is either plain wrong or at the very least massively oversimplified.
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2015-11-02, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
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2015-11-02, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
spoilers because it's not relevant to the discussion.
SpoilerSo among the myriad of ways that judicial duels could be organized, one of the more common ones, specifically during the late 14th to early 15th century, had the following rules.
Each of the combatants are given the same equipment: armor, dagger, longsword, buckler, and spear.
The issuer of the challenge had to throw something at the challenged opponent to start the duel.
So, the challenger would, usually, throw their spear. And since it's the very beginning of the fight, the combatants are wearing armor, and have a shield ready, this would in most cases be completely unsuccessful. It just left one of the fighters without their spear, putting them at a disadvantage in the rest of the fight.
After awhile of having the challenger losing more fights than they're winning do to these conditions, we start to see over-sized partially detachable pommels in longswords appear in weapon collections. Admittedly, they were still very very rare. But it seems to have been a way to get around the restriction. The challenger would now unscrew their over-sized pommel, leaving only a regular pommel remaining. Throw that at their opponent, and then fight the judicial battle on even footing.
The Gladiatoria manual corroborates this, as after the end him rightly passage the author doesn't give explicit detail on what move will actually kill the opponent, only that he can now use sword or spear whichever he feels more comfortable with. Since now that option is available to him.
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2015-11-02, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
7/10, and I think most of my problem was overthinking them a bit. The only one I was really surprised by the correct answer to was the one about swords vs. armored opponents. I had no clue what the right answer was.
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2015-11-02, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
I scored well, but I think a lot of the questions are guessable by the tone of the questions. In most cases, you can tell which sounds right (with notable exceptions, like when you put a question mark after the correct answer)?
If you really want to know if people know the answers, you should also have a "don't know" option on most of these.Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
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2015-11-02, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Bristol
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
10/10, of which I'm oddly proud, but I agree with the criticism above of many of the approaches used in questioning. Having said that, there were usually at least two plausible answers for anyone trying to make an educated guess, which isn't bad for a multiple choice. It is however fairly obvious that it's worked backwards from misconceptions, which might make it easy to "game" even if the answers weren't known. As mentioned, a more neutral questioning style would help: some of these are very leading.
I would note that despite the quiz purporting to be a medieval one, the rapier is a largely post-medieval weapon.
I've played Warhammer and WFRP, D&D (AD&D2 and 3.x) and a few video games. I do however also have a history degree (but non-medieval in focus).Last edited by Aedilred; 2015-11-03 at 07:43 PM.
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2015-11-03, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Cippa's River Meadow
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Re: Testing medieval misconceptions and RPG players.
It gets complicated. I've seen historical maps drawn by travelled clergyman who state that the world is in the shape of the Tabernacle (link).
Delving into it further probably breaks board rules, but that makes the counter misconception that all medieval folks knew the world was round, a misconception.