RWBY VII: Winter is here

[Lethologica]

So I just had this idea for a team Evil name:

Team CMEN. Pronounced "Carmen." Doesn't tie into them being evil the same way Team CRME does, but hey, follows the naming convention!

Been there, done that, there's no R so everyone noticed the obvious and unfortunate pronunciation, and I think we went to MNCE ("mince").

[Mrc.]

Whilst you have a valid point, there is no way in hell they would pronounce "CMEN" as "Carmen"

[DoctorFaust]

Whilst you have a valid point, there is no way in hell they would pronounce "CMEN" as "Carmen"

Well, if you replaced whoever the hell "E" is with Roman, it could work.

Oh.

OH.

That gives me an idea. An awful idea. A wonderful, awful idea....

[LaZodiac]

Or we could call them Cinder's gang. Or wiat until we know Neo's fake name to make a team name. Or we could just call them Cinder's gang.

[CaDzilla]

I personally refer to Cinder's gang as the Shrimpson Boyz

[Silverraptor]

Just making sure, what day does the new episode of RWBY get released to all us cheapy cheaps?

[LaZodiac]

Just making sure, what day does the new episode of RWBY get released to all us cheapy cheaps?

Sunday. There was no episode this week.

[Rawhide]

Sunday. There was no episode this week.

Yes there was, a World of Remnant episode.

[Reddish Mage]

Yes there was, a World of Remnant episode.

Doesn't really count.

-Sent from an iPad Pro...day 1, still trying to figure out what this huge thing is for.

[Rawhide]

Doesn't really count.

-Sent from an iPad Pro...day 1, still trying to figure out what this huge thing is for.

It wasn't a story episode, but an episode was released.

Those things are too darn big.

Spoiler: Pic, unrelated to RWBY

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Spoiler: MANGA CHAPTER 1

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How so? Nothing in the first episode implied Dust was unknown. As far as I could tell everyone just thought it was a magical rock that just existed and was used, there was no actual establishing that "oh yeah we don't have any idea what it is or why we can mine for it or why it works the way it does." and I feel that's different.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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How is that different? What you described in the former sounds pretty much exactly like the latter in different words to me...

---

I'm also going to make a ruling here, unrelated to anything anyone has done, but I can see it becoming an issue. Storylines of the manga and information revealed in the manga which is not in the show will always be considered a spoiler in this thread (so, use spoiler boxes), but not if it's posted in a RWBY manga thread (which does not yet exist).

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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How is that different? What you described in the former sounds pretty much exactly like the latter in different words to me...

I'm also going to make a ruling here, unrelated to anything anyone has done, but I can see it becoming an issue. Storylines of the manga and information revealed in the manga which is not in the show will always be considered a spoiler in this thread (so, use spoiler boxes), but not if it's posted in a RWBY manga thread (which does not yet exist).

Spoiler: Manga Ch1 but also just theorcrafting for RWBY in general I guess.

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The first way makes it seem like no one in universe cares or acknowledges that they don't know what it is. It sort of implies they do know what it is, since it's never concretely established that "this is a mysterious thing". As an example, no one in FF7 ever questions what Materia is. It never becomes plot important WHAT Materia is, and no one cares, so it exists because "it's just a natural thing in the universe".

Letting it be known in universe from the mouths of our characters that yes, we GENUINELY don't know where the Dust comes from, means that it is a plot point. Another example: a LOT of time in Full Metal Alchemist is spent explaining how Alchemy works and why it works, and what parts of it they don't understand. As it turns out it becomes a PRETTY BIG plot point later on. In contrast, again with the above Materia example, they never really establish that yes, it's unknown what it is, and as such in universe nothing comes of it.

What I mean is that, if they want the plot point of "Dust is a mysterious object that even the people who mine, manufacture, and sell it don't know what it is" then they have to actually establish it, otherwise the assumption will be they do or that it doesn't matter.

[Milo v3]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Wasn't there already a World of Remnent that basically said they don't know the true origin of dust, just that it's appearance was linked to the appearance of the Grimm?

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1 but also just theorcrafting for RWBY in general I guess.

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The first way makes it seem like no one in universe cares or acknowledges that they don't know what it is. It sort of implies they do know what it is, since it's never concretely established that "this is a mysterious thing". As an example, no one in FF7 ever questions what Materia is. It never becomes plot important WHAT Materia is, and no one cares, so it exists because "it's just a natural thing in the universe".

Letting it be known in universe from the mouths of our characters that yes, we GENUINELY don't know where the Dust comes from, means that it is a plot point. Another example: a LOT of time in Full Metal Alchemist is spent explaining how Alchemy works and why it works, and what parts of it they don't understand. As it turns out it becomes a PRETTY BIG plot point later on. In contrast, again with the above Materia example, they never really establish that yes, it's unknown what it is, and as such in universe nothing comes of it.

What I mean is that, if they want the plot point of "Dust is a mysterious object that even the people who mine, manufacture, and sell it don't know what it is" then they have to actually establish it, otherwise the assumption will be they do or that it doesn't matter.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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I honestly don't see why it's that important that someone explicitly states that "something is something", isn't "heavily implied" more than enough? It was quite clear to me that it was this way right from the beginning, and further development, such as the World of Remnant video, has only solidified it.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Wasn't there already a World of Remnent that basically said they don't know the true origin of dust, just that it's appearance was linked to the appearance of the Grimm?

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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This too.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Wasn't there already a World of Remnent that basically said they don't know the true origin of dust, just that it's appearance was linked to the appearance of the Grimm?

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Not that I know of, no! Additionally, it should still be something said in universe, not told to us by a narrator in a supplementary video.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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I honestly don't see why it's that important that someone explicitly states that "something is something", isn't "heavily implied" more than enough? It was quite clear to me that it was this way right from the beginning, and further development, such as the World of Remnant video, has only solidified it.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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This too.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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What WOR video is it again that says that? Also, I don't think it's been heavily implied at all. No one questions what Dust is or how it works or anything, they just go with the flow like we in the real world do with oil. Oil, by the way, is made from the compacted corpses of old creatures, and theoretically in some beliefs would therefor still be living souls. Imagine if that was actually true, you'd be pretty concerned about using oil right? Well if the world was a show, no one questions oil so no one watching knows these details or is concerned about it. It could lead to an interesting twist later, yes, but I feel like there should be some foreshadowing.

Also, again, I really just don't like the idea of supplementary material having plot crucial stuff.

[Milo v3]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Not that I know of, no! Additionally, it should still be something said in universe, not told to us by a narrator in a supplementary video.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Nah, then it be like when they told all the Hunters about aura where people on the internet complained that they were just talking about stuff everyone in the setting should already know.

Though to be honest, if they did know where it was from in setting, why would they mention it? We don't talk about Where iron or sulphur come from very often.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Nah, then it be like when they told all the Hunters about aura where people on the internet complained that they were just talking about stuff everyone in the setting should already know.

Though to be honest, if they did know where it was from in setting, why would they mention it? We don't talk about Where iron or sulphur come from very often.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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In that case, Jaune should know better, if Aura is that big of a thing. Though for me it's less "this is bad" and more "this could of been written in a better way".

Well, as you may RECALL from the Manga, Ruby (who is younger then everyone else and got pushed into this school ahead of time thanks to Ozpin) asked what Dust is and Weiss said "oh Dust is X and we don't know where it's from but it does Y thing" and that worked perfectly fine. Could of done that in the show as well. It makes sense for Ruby to ask the question because she's a weapon fanatic and also is a curious, slightly younger person.

Also for what it's worth if I was having a discussion about things that use iron or sulpher I'd probably ask how it gets made, or just look it up myself.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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Not that I know of, no! Additionally, it should still be something said in universe, not told to us by a narrator in a supplementary video.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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Despite working, fighting, and even turning a profit with it, humanity has still yet to understand how Dust came to be, and more importantly, how their involvement with Dust will ultimately change the world of Remnant.

I disagree with this statement in a lot of ways, including (but not limited to) the lack of importance you put on videos which are released as part of the set, interspaced within the set when released online, and included on the physical media for the set. But, to continue this discussion completely we'd probably need to move to the rewrite thread.

P.S. You really would not like Watchmen.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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What WOR video is it again that says that? Also, I don't think it's been heavily implied at all. No one questions what Dust is or how it works or anything, they just go with the flow like we in the real world do with oil. Oil, by the way, is made from the compacted corpses of old creatures, and theoretically in some beliefs would therefor still be living souls. Imagine if that was actually true, you'd be pretty concerned about using oil right? Well if the world was a show, no one questions oil so no one watching knows these details or is concerned about it. It could lead to an interesting twist later, yes, but I feel like there should be some foreshadowing.

Also, again, I really just don't like the idea of supplementary material having plot crucial stuff.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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Good thing you brought up oil, because this is exactly what happened in the real world. Oil was first drilled by the Chinese as early as 347 AD (or possibly earlier), and there are records of its use more than four thousand years ago (see The Wiki for more info). However, it wasn't until 1556 that a scientist even proposed a theory that oil was formed from fossilised dead plants (and later again in the 18th century, another scientist put forward the same theory) (see a different article on The Wiki for more info).

So yes, for a very long time we used oil in various ways and did not know how it formed. Even now, the vast majority of people do not know how oil is formed and simply do not question it. They don't care. They just accept it.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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I disagree with this statement in a lot of ways, including (but not limited to) the lack of importance you put on videos which are released as part of the set, interspaced within the set when released online, and included on the physical media for the set. But, to continue this discussion completely we'd probably need to move to the rewrite thread.

P.S. You really would not like Watchmen.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 1

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Good thing you brought up oil, because this is exactly what happened in the real world. Oil was first drilled by the Chinese as early as 347 AD (or possibly earlier), and there are records of its use more than four thousand years ago (see The Wiki for more info). However, it wasn't until 1556 that a scientist even proposed a theory that oil was formed from fossilised dead plants (and later again in the 18th century, another scientist put forward the same theory) (see a different article on The Wiki for more info).

So yes, for a very long time we used oil in various ways and did not know how it formed. Even now, the vast majority of people do not know how oil is formed and simply do not question it. They don't care. They just accept it.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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I disagree. I personally think that if it IS that important, it should be brought up in the actual show so the most people possible can be aware that it's important. What if a fan just never watched the World of Remnant stuff, or didn't watch the Trailers?

I...don't see what you mean by that Watchmen comment. I like Watchmen a lot.

Yes, good point about the oil. Like I said, there could a possibility they're leading up to something with Dust, it just feels kind of weird to have no foreshadowing at all in series about it.

[Milo v3]

What if a fan just never watched the World of Remnant stuff, or didn't watch the Trailers?

Then they purposefully decided to ignore the background information of the setting. *Shrug*

[LaZodiac]

Then they purposefully decided to ignore the background information of the setting. *Shrug*

Or they didn't know about it, or they don't think "supplementary material" is super needed. It's not an unreasonable thing to consider happening.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Or they didn't know about it, or they don't think "supplementary material" is super needed. It's not an unreasonable thing to consider happening.

I could certainly see that happening in the distant future where RWBY is finished and newcomers just bingewatch it.

[Reddish Mage]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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In that case, Jaune should know better, if Aura is that big of a thing. Though for me it's less "this is bad" and more "this could of been written in a better way".

Well, as you may RECALL from the Manga, Ruby (who is younger then everyone else and got pushed into this school ahead of time thanks to Ozpin) asked what Dust is and Weiss said "oh Dust is X and we don't know where it's from but it does Y thing" and that worked perfectly fine. Could of done that in the show as well. It makes sense for Ruby to ask the question because she's a weapon fanatic and also is a curious, slightly younger person.

Also for what it's worth if I was having a discussion about things that use iron or sulpher I'd probably ask how it gets made, or just look it up myself.

Spoiler: Manga C1...in this conversation chain somewhere

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Expositionon the basics doesn't occur very often in visual media and generally only make sense in specific contexts.

Narration, usually at the beginning of a story, is one of the accepted methods, but sets a slow, patient tone that doesn't always work. A lot of people find it plodding. It does tell rather than show.

A newcomer, someone who would have our perspective, is probably the most common method to learn about the ubiquitous characteristics of a fantasy world. Jaune is the closest thing to a fit.

As far as other ways, they aren't all that good that I can see:

Instructors saying something everyone knows, or someone who thinks they are smart drones on about the obvious (Weiss)or a scatterbrained girl (Ruby) does something that deserves that sort of response.

Which would you do?


Yes this has gotten far into rewrite territory at this point.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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I...don't see what you mean by that Watchmen comment. I like Watchmen a lot.

Spoiler: Was Manga Chapter 1, but mostly Watchmen

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The Watchmen graphic novel includes oodles of supplementary content, much of which is presented in a different medium such as prose, advertisements, and an unrelated comic, all of which are important to the entire Watchmen story.

The movie incorporates some, but not all of it. If you want to get the complete story, you need to watch the Ultimate Cut (but, even then, some of the supplementary content is still relegated to a second disk and not included in the main movie, not even on the same disk).

Spoiler: Manga Ch1

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I disagree. I personally think that if it IS that important, it should be brought up in the actual show so the most people possible can be aware that it's important. What if a fan just never watched the World of Remnant stuff, or didn't watch the Trailers?

Then they purposefully decided to ignore the background information of the setting. *Shrug*

Agreed. Especially since it is right there in front of them and identified as important.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Manga C1...in this conversation chain somewhere

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Expositionon the basics doesn't occur very often in visual media and generally only make sense in specific contexts.

Narration, usually at the beginning of a story, is one of the accepted methods, but sets a slow, patient tone that doesn't always work. A lot of people find it plodding. It does tell rather than show.

A newcomer, someone who would have our perspective, is probably the most common method to learn about the ubiquitous characteristics of a fantasy world. Jaune is the closest thing to a fit.

As far as other ways, they aren't all that good that I can see:

Instructors saying something everyone knows, or someone who thinks they are smart drones on about the obvious (Weiss)or a scatterbrained girl (Ruby) does something that deserves that sort of response.

Which would you do?

Yes this has gotten far into rewrite territory at this point.

Spoiler: Manga Ch1 technically

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I'd of had someone like Ruby or Jaune ask what Dust is. In a perfect world it'd be Jaune, like with Aura, trying to come off as if he knows before admitting it, and then the appropriate person telling him about it. Pyrrha with Aura, and Dust with Weiss or maybe even Ruby since Ruby's the weapon freak. It'd make sense if she knew all the intricities of ammo if she really was that big into guns and stuff (though it's also reasonable she doesn't know since she's like what, 13 or something?).

EDIT: @Rawhide: I disagree, those aren't supplementary. Those things are IN THE BOOK with the main story. It's part of the main story and avoiding it would be SILLY AS HECK since it's...RIGHT THERE! Meanwhile, I mean I don't know how it's set up on the site, but the WOR stuff isn't in the same playlist as RWBY episodes right?

[Milo v3]

Or they didn't know about it, or they don't think "supplementary material" is super needed. It's not an unreasonable thing to consider happening.

It's abit hard to not know about it when you can see "World of Remnant" Episodes right there in the middle of choosing which episode to watch, and if you ignore it because don't think supplementary material is super needed then you are purposely choosing to ignore background information because that's all World of Remnant is. It isn't super needed, you can watch the show without it without an issue, but if you're interested in background info, you should watch the World of Remnant episodes. Simple as that.

[LaZodiac]

It's abit hard to not know about it when you can see "World of Remnant" Episodes right there in the middle of choosing which episode to watch, and if you ignore it because don't think supplementary material is super needed then you are purposely choosing to ignore background information because that's all World of Remnant is. It isn't super needed, you can watch the show without it without an issue, but if you're interested in background info, you should watch the World of Remnant episodes. Simple as that.

Again I don't know how the website is laid out but as far as I'm aware the WOR stuff wouldn't be in the RWBY playlist.

[Milo v3]

Again I don't know how the website is laid out but as far as I'm aware the WOR stuff wouldn't be in the RWBY playlist.

They are, on both the youtube and Roosterteeth website RWBY playlists.

[LaZodiac]

They are, on both the youtube and Roosterteeth website RWBY playlists.

Okay, so then they're supposed to be in the series, they're just...not, I guess. Like the cute little omake things they have in other anime to fill time before the credits and between comercials and stuff. Okay, I'm less down on the World of Remnant stuff, just wish the execution was better.

[Rawhide]

EDIT: @Rawhide: I disagree, those aren't supplementary. Those things are IN THE BOOK with the main story. It's part of the main story and avoiding it would be SILLY AS HECK since it's...RIGHT THERE! Meanwhile, I mean I don't know how it's set up on the site, but the WOR stuff isn't in the same playlist as RWBY episodes right?

Those are pretty much exactly as supplementary as World of Remnant. If those aren't supplementary, neither is World of Remnant, and vice versa. They are also right there, so ignoring them would be as silly as heck.

They are also non critical. You can watch the show and understand it without them, but they add (or spell out) background information for those who are curious.

[LaZodiac]

Those are pretty much exactly as supplementary as World of Remnant. If those aren't supplementary, neither is World of Remnant, and vice versa. They are also right there, so ignoring them would be as silly as heck.

They are also non critical. You can watch the show and understand it without them, but they add background information for those who are curious.

Well like I've said above I didn't realize the WOR stuff is in the episode playlists. That changes things.

Spoiler: Watchmen

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That being said, I also feel like you bringing up Watchmen also kinda proves my point too? Cause like, unless I'm mistaken, none of those little vignettes really serve up plot critical information, just really neat tibits about the setting. Like the pirate drama comic book, which serves as a nice parralel to the plot and also answers the "in a world with real superheroes, what are comic books doing?" question which is really neat but not vital to know. So should the WOR be telling super duper important stuff like "no one knows what Dust is"? I think no.